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Chat bot generated poems and critique

lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14444

I think open up a forum on suggestions. it is almost bat-phone like. try keep it from the explicit lable

brokentitanium
k.
Tyrant of Words
Canada 10awards
Joined 18th Nov 2015
Forum Posts: 1095

Betty said:Can we ask admin to put out a side-wide announcement/poll?

We need more input, for sure.

I'm ready to move forward and ask for some immediate labeling  stop-gaps, but we need to inform the members who aren't as active in the larger community what their thoughts are.



Again, I am more convinced that this is not a person cutting & pasting ChatGPT content, but rather a bot that has been programmed to behave like a DUP user. These bots are pervasive in social media, but until ChatGPT came along, they could not create content that would be convincing enough for a site such as DUP. Now they can, enough to fool us for a while, anyway. I'm not trying to suggest the sky is falling, but I am concerned that it might mean the security of the site might not be keeping up with this new development. (It freaks me out a little to think that a data-mining bot may have collected all the personal details I've shared about my life for the past 7 years or so. Sure, anyone could do that if they were a really committed creep, but a bot can do it in an instant.)

In terms of action, I have blocked the user in question so that he no longer has access to my content. I have reported all his comments on my own poems in order to alert the people who can do something about it. (And I've changed my password, but that may just be paranoid overkill.) If I'm wrong and it's just a cut 'n pasting human, blocking and reporting is still appropriate. It will help fulfill Lepp's request to alert the moderators, and it will protect you if he has any malicious intent.

As for allowing & labeling bot-produced content, I'm not in favour of it. This is a site for humans who write poetry. By all means, have fun creating poetry with a bot! But don't post it on a human poetry site. There's no way it could be adequately policed. And I'd be royally pissed if there was some sort of mandatory filter that WRONGLY tagged my real poetry as bot-generated! No system is perfect so it's bound to happen.

DanielChristensen
The Fire Elemental
Tyrant of Words
United States 36awards
Joined 27th Feb 2016
Forum Posts: 239

brokentitanium said:

Again, I am more convinced that this is not a person cutting & pasting ChatGPT content, but rather a bot that has been programmed to behave like a DUP user. These bots are pervasive in social media, but until ChatGPT came along, they could not create content that would be convincing enough for a site such as DUP. Now they can, enough to fool us for a while, anyway. I'm not trying to suggest the sky is falling, but I am concerned that it might mean the security of the site might not be keeping up with this new development. (It freaks me out a little to think that a data-mining bot may have collected all the personal details I've shared about my life for the past 7 years or so. Sure, anyone could do that if they were a really committed creep, but a bot can do it in an instant.)

In terms of action, I have blocked the user in question so that he no longer has access to my content. I have reported all his comments on my own poems in order to alert the people who can do something about it. (And I've changed my password, but that may just be paranoid overkill.) If I'm wrong and it's just a cut 'n pasting human, blocking and reporting is still appropriate. It will help fulfill Lepp's request to alert the moderators, and it will protect you if he has any malicious intent.

As for allowing & labeling bot-produced content, I'm not in favour of it. This is a site for humans who write poetry. By all means, have fun creating poetry with a bot! But don't post it on a human poetry site. There's no way it could be adequately policed. And I'd be royally pissed if there was some sort of mandatory filter that WRONGLY tagged my real poetry as bot-generated! No system is perfect so it's bound to happen.


I think treating chat bot generated content essentially as plagiarism is our best path forward. We're moving the discussion about what to do about this over to the Suggestions thread as per Lepperochan's instructions.

Betty
Dangerous Mind
United States 16awards
Joined 8th May 2012
Forum Posts: 422

I agree. Whole heartedly.

Can you repost this in the new discussion thread?

Also, I know MB was a human because he messaged me a few times, and I think he messaged other folks.

As to other bots? I haven't yet had experience. But I would believe this user was processing the content and using it off as his/her own.

brokentitanium said:

Again, I am more convinced that this is not a person cutting & pasting ChatGPT content, but rather a bot that has been programmed to behave like a DUP user. These bots are pervasive in social media, but until ChatGPT came along, they could not create content that would be convincing enough for a site such as DUP. Now they can, enough to fool us for a while, anyway. I'm not trying to suggest the sky is falling, but I am concerned that it might mean the security of the site might not be keeping up with this new development. (It freaks me out a little to think that a data-mining bot may have collected all the personal details I've shared about my life for the past 7 years or so. Sure, anyone could do that if they were a really committed creep, but a bot can do it in an instant.)

In terms of action, I have blocked the user in question so that he no longer has access to my content. I have reported all his comments on my own poems in order to alert the people who can do something about it. (And I've changed my password, but that may just be paranoid overkill.) If I'm wrong and it's just a cut 'n pasting human, blocking and reporting is still appropriate. It will help fulfill Lepp's request to alert the moderators, and it will protect you if he has any malicious intent.

As for allowing & labeling bot-produced content, I'm not in favour of it. This is a site for humans who write poetry. By all means, have fun creating poetry with a bot! But don't post it on a human poetry site. There's no way it could be adequately policed. And I'd be royally pissed if there was some sort of mandatory filter that WRONGLY tagged my real poetry as bot-generated! No system is perfect so it's bound to happen.

DanielChristensen
The Fire Elemental
Tyrant of Words
United States 36awards
Joined 27th Feb 2016
Forum Posts: 239

Hey everyone we've taken the conversation about how to move forward with this issue to the Suggestions forum. Here is a link,

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/suggestions/read/12518/#561343

Betty
Dangerous Mind
United States 16awards
Joined 8th May 2012
Forum Posts: 422

DanielChristensen said:Hey everyone we've taken the conversation about how to move forward with this issue to the Suggestions forum. Here is a link,

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/suggestions/read/12518/#561343


Thank you DC.


Ljdynamic
Dangerous Mind
United States 13awards
Joined 18th Aug 2017
Forum Posts: 253

Related submission no longer exists.
Eh, I decided to post it on my page after all.

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/478962-generated-hate/

wallyroo92
Tyrant of Words
United States 144awards
Joined 11th July 2012
Forum Posts: 1737

So a long time ago, I was awarded four trophies in a row for competitions, but they were awarded in the span of a week or two. Needless to say I was baffled that I was lucky enough to have been honored. However the immediate awarding of the most recent seemed suspicious as two of those accounts (which are very recent new members) seemed too simplistic and vague in their comp name and description. I think the timing is also another clue. If you take a look at the submissions in the female account, it follows a pretty standard formulaic rhyme (aabb) that contain an expanded vocabulary but otherwise lack emotion, or what I'd call robotic.

From what I've seen, when new poets join this site, they are excited to get feedback and usually have a response. This hasn't been the case. In fact, one account critiqued the poem with another poem and reply back was with another poem of the same formula. No doubt that the account that has been here the longest is a real person but questioning the integrity of these four comps is something that should be investigated.

The quality of poetry that I've seen here comes from the heart, from the soul. There is a wide range of talented writers here in DUP, young, old, spoken poetry, visual poetry, and across different genres. We knew that the age of AI would pose some questions on the integrity of creativity and authenticity. I know this will be an ongoing debate. The world is filled with too many scammers and fraud (in my job I constantly have to deal with it). We're a community of writers from different walks of life who can should be able to spot when something is not right and report it.  

crimsin
Unveiling
Tyrant of Words
United States 119awards
Joined 25th Jan 2011
Forum Posts: 2599

I think it's Legion they've tasted tears never sadness they are curious....

SweetOblivion
Tyrant of Words
49awards
Joined 6th July 2014
Forum Posts: 72

It never even occurred to me that someone might do this until it was pointed out to me today.  I don't understand why someone would do this.  I feel so naïve.

Betty
Dangerous Mind
United States 16awards
Joined 8th May 2012
Forum Posts: 422


Right?! I feel like an idiot

We have a ‘what action can we take” thread going on if you’d like to join. We want to decide as a community how to deal


SweetOblivion said:It never even occurred to me that someone might do this until it was pointed out to me today.  I don't understand why someone would do this.  I feel so naïve.

SweetOblivion
Tyrant of Words
49awards
Joined 6th July 2014
Forum Posts: 72

I really just come here to enjoy writing and to love the writing of others - I wish you well with the campaign though

DanielChristensen
The Fire Elemental
Tyrant of Words
United States 36awards
Joined 27th Feb 2016
Forum Posts: 239

Related submission no longer exists.
Ljdynamic said:Eh, I decided to post it on my page after all.

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/478962-generated-hate/


I hear you LJ.

DanielChristensen
The Fire Elemental
Tyrant of Words
United States 36awards
Joined 27th Feb 2016
Forum Posts: 239

wallyroo92 said:So a long time ago, I was awarded four trophies in a row for competitions, but they were awarded in the span of a week or two. Needless to say I was baffled that I was lucky enough to have been honored. However the immediate awarding of the most recent seemed suspicious as two of those accounts (which are very recent new members) seemed too simplistic and vague in their comp name and description. I think the timing is also another clue. If you take a look at the submissions in the female account, it follows a pretty standard formulaic rhyme (aabb) that contain an expanded vocabulary but otherwise lack emotion, or what I'd call robotic.

From what I've seen, when new poets join this site, they are excited to get feedback and usually have a response. This hasn't been the case. In fact, one account critiqued the poem with another poem and reply back was with another poem of the same formula. No doubt that the account that has been here the longest is a real person but questioning the integrity of these four comps is something that should be investigated.

The quality of poetry that I've seen here comes from the heart, from the soul. There is a wide range of talented writers here in DUP, young, old, spoken poetry, visual poetry, and across different genres. We knew that the age of AI would pose some questions on the integrity of creativity and authenticity. I know this will be an ongoing debate. The world is filled with too many scammers and fraud (in my job I constantly have to deal with it). We're a community of writers from different walks of life who can should be able to spot when something is not right and report it.  


Walter thank you I agree with you that it is likely the account in question is an alt and this person is probably handing themselves comp wins. The integrity of the site is in question through this behavior. Hopefully the moderators can take action over the issues we've raised as a community.

Josh
Joshua Bond
Tyrant of Words
Palestine 40awards
Joined 2nd Feb 2017
Forum Posts: 1588

I read my way through the now closed forum "AI content concerns and solutions", and agree with much.
Reading this forum seems to have taken it a bit further ... and DUP will have to sort something out about it.

************************************

My interest though is about the meta-issue of AI vs The Creative Process.

From ancient mystics to quantum physicists we know there is no such thing as matter. Everything therefore is process.
This process is by nature creatively interactive with connections to other realms, which sometimes we experience easily, at other times not so.
AI has none of this; it is not sentient or having consciousness (or rather, it cannot 'be consciousness' which is what humans are). AI is a slave to algorithms; that's all. And its world is limited to what's on the internet, which is a small %ge of 'all knowledge'.
What's more, it has no originality of its own; and can only steal 'creativity' from humans, re-jiggle it, and re-present it as apparently original material. It is devoid of spirit, of soul, of inspiration, of intuition, of will, of imagination, of instinct ...,
although it does a good job on 'intellect'. However, a car can go faster than a human but we don't say a car is a better runner than a human.

Therefore true creativity (in poetry or any other art-form) is 100% a human prerogative (birthright, power, privilege).
And it's always good to remember when considering new technologies, the question: What does it mean to be human that technology might somehow deprive me of?

Which brings me to the issue of redefining what we mean by the word 'poetry'.
To me, by definition, it is 100% a human affair.
To say humans invented AI poetry capability and therefore is 'partly human anyway', or to equate AI poetry and commenting as just a faster way of doing what a widely read person who is good with words might do, is not the point.
The point is the human connection ...

As Psalm 115:8 says concerning idols:
"Those who make them will be like them,
and so will all who trust in them".

I've never been a fan of reductionism.
AI is a challenge, but an opportunity to increase our sense of our own inheritance as humans.


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