Acceptable Free Speech and Expression
lepperochan said:
Hullo again and thank you for your prompt and in depth reply. I'll try furnish you with one also
the film was Braveheart, you quote it a trillion times a day....only if the popcorn was deep fried in batter first
you're right. my life life would be an absolute hell if I lost any of my limbs. or a finger for that matter. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I'm sorry for trying to make your loss and pain something which I understand. I couldn't possibly. and was (temporarily) idiotic for thinking i could
what I will say though, if you don't mind using the original phantom sentence as an example
It could go either way, y'know. a person in a similar situation could feel differently about those words and perhaps feel personally insulted, even angered at being protected from them
to that end, a person can literally take a personal insult from anywhere even in the best of intentions. so far you haven't seemed to be able to grasp that
so now if you're going to pursue the zero tolerance line you gave such build up to you could be in a situation where you have to take action all over the place or start to grade personal insult
how would you go about that. I mean, the nightmare would be endless.
Thank you indeed my fine fellow: And another thing
you have inspired me to wrote a poem called "A trillion Times A Day"
Braveheart was an awful movie and historically inaccurate and Mel Gibson playing an alcoholic bigot was too much of a stretch
deep fried popcorn now there's an idea
I don'y have worst enemies but many folks need a wake up call to the lives of the disabled can't think of anything else that might work
I can't see you as idiotic even temp; I never used to understand
I would love to publish everything said but you know I cant do that
you are dead right people are unique they all have unique responses being undiplomatic can sometimes be like playing Russian Roulette
I think I do grasp that and know the difference between banter and personal insults. There was recently a comp - a tribute to David Macleod I think I was called a cunt and a twat on several occaissions I didn't ban any of those poems beacuase they were from friends who I have banter with and I know they are just joshing around
A personal insult is a personal insult do they have to be graded, maybe the consequences have to be graded, But i don't see it here there and everywhere, in fact it seems to be rare in the scheme of things - I see no nightmares
Finally if you get to know me you will realise apologies are not necessary. I live in the moment once it's gone it's gone I don't hold grudges or bad feeling
Hullo again and thank you for your prompt and in depth reply. I'll try furnish you with one also
the film was Braveheart, you quote it a trillion times a day....only if the popcorn was deep fried in batter first
you're right. my life life would be an absolute hell if I lost any of my limbs. or a finger for that matter. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I'm sorry for trying to make your loss and pain something which I understand. I couldn't possibly. and was (temporarily) idiotic for thinking i could
what I will say though, if you don't mind using the original phantom sentence as an example
It could go either way, y'know. a person in a similar situation could feel differently about those words and perhaps feel personally insulted, even angered at being protected from them
to that end, a person can literally take a personal insult from anywhere even in the best of intentions. so far you haven't seemed to be able to grasp that
so now if you're going to pursue the zero tolerance line you gave such build up to you could be in a situation where you have to take action all over the place or start to grade personal insult
how would you go about that. I mean, the nightmare would be endless.
Thank you indeed my fine fellow: And another thing
you have inspired me to wrote a poem called "A trillion Times A Day"
Braveheart was an awful movie and historically inaccurate and Mel Gibson playing an alcoholic bigot was too much of a stretch
deep fried popcorn now there's an idea
I don'y have worst enemies but many folks need a wake up call to the lives of the disabled can't think of anything else that might work
I can't see you as idiotic even temp; I never used to understand
I would love to publish everything said but you know I cant do that
you are dead right people are unique they all have unique responses being undiplomatic can sometimes be like playing Russian Roulette
I think I do grasp that and know the difference between banter and personal insults. There was recently a comp - a tribute to David Macleod I think I was called a cunt and a twat on several occaissions I didn't ban any of those poems beacuase they were from friends who I have banter with and I know they are just joshing around
A personal insult is a personal insult do they have to be graded, maybe the consequences have to be graded, But i don't see it here there and everywhere, in fact it seems to be rare in the scheme of things - I see no nightmares
Finally if you get to know me you will realise apologies are not necessary. I live in the moment once it's gone it's gone I don't hold grudges or bad feeling
Braveheart was good entertainment. a lot of the battle scenes were filmed here. I'd a friend who's land in Kilbride was used. he was used as an extra too. he'd one arm, was born like it because of either birth control or sheep dip his mother used. anyhow, I met him when my boss at the time, his uncle asked me to train him in
all our work was manual, (metal fabrication) tricky as fuck to get the hang of with two arms. I'd serious reservations about putting the time and effort in. until he came into work the next morning. he drove in on a big scrambler bike, middle of summer, T-shirt n, no helmet and a hook-ed hand strapped onto his shoulder.
best I could do was walk over and say "alright terminator, come on inside, y'cunt I'll show you what the craic is" . he liked that, we got on like brothers. he took over when I left. probably still there now, the cunt
I think personal insult is a very grey area. people used to say personal attack, it was much easier to judge. an insult can be given or taken. same as offence. so, you're in a position where you're 100% clear about what you mean, but it can be misconstrued or construed by everyone else. people can get frustrated
all our work was manual, (metal fabrication) tricky as fuck to get the hang of with two arms. I'd serious reservations about putting the time and effort in. until he came into work the next morning. he drove in on a big scrambler bike, middle of summer, T-shirt n, no helmet and a hook-ed hand strapped onto his shoulder.
best I could do was walk over and say "alright terminator, come on inside, y'cunt I'll show you what the craic is" . he liked that, we got on like brothers. he took over when I left. probably still there now, the cunt
I think personal insult is a very grey area. people used to say personal attack, it was much easier to judge. an insult can be given or taken. same as offence. so, you're in a position where you're 100% clear about what you mean, but it can be misconstrued or construed by everyone else. people can get frustrated
lepperochan said:Braveheart was good entertainment. a lot of the battle scenes were filmed here. I'd a friend who's land in Kilbride was used. he was used as an extra too. he'd one arm, was born like it because of either birth control or sheep dip his mother used. anyhow, I met him when my boss at the time, his uncle asked me to train him in
all our work was manual, (metal fabrication) tricky as fuck to get the hang of with two arms. I'd serious reservations about putting the time and effort in. until he came into work the next morning. he drove in on a big scrambler bike, middle of summer, T-shirt n, no helmet and a hook-ed hand strapped onto his shoulder.
best I could do was walk over and say "alright terminator, come on inside, y'cunt I'll show you what the craic is" . he liked that, we got on like brothers. he took over when I left. probably still there now, the cunt
I think personal insult is a very grey area. people used to say personal attack, it was much easier to judge. an insult can be given or taken. same as offence. so, you're in a position where you're 100% clear about what you mean, but it can be misconstrued or construed by everyone else. people can get frustrated
I see what you mean maybe personal attack would be an easier term to use and judge - gonna ponder that one - thank you
all our work was manual, (metal fabrication) tricky as fuck to get the hang of with two arms. I'd serious reservations about putting the time and effort in. until he came into work the next morning. he drove in on a big scrambler bike, middle of summer, T-shirt n, no helmet and a hook-ed hand strapped onto his shoulder.
best I could do was walk over and say "alright terminator, come on inside, y'cunt I'll show you what the craic is" . he liked that, we got on like brothers. he took over when I left. probably still there now, the cunt
I think personal insult is a very grey area. people used to say personal attack, it was much easier to judge. an insult can be given or taken. same as offence. so, you're in a position where you're 100% clear about what you mean, but it can be misconstrued or construed by everyone else. people can get frustrated
I see what you mean maybe personal attack would be an easier term to use and judge - gonna ponder that one - thank you
(From page 2 "Viddax, i'd no idea the site had just been fixed or that my posts could break it again. certainly wasnt having a go at the mod entity" - Craic. Was not actually alluding to that in any way; was just trying to say some things about free speech that got all garbled up.)
Bollocks to hardening up.
Utter rubbish unfit for humanity.
Saying to a cancer patient to "suck it up" does not make the cancer go away.
Saying to an unfortunately suddenly developed orphan to "get over it" will not get their parents back.
Saying to a rape victim to "forget about it" does not remove the sexual assault.
Saying to a genocide survivor "well you survived so what is the problem" does not wash away the terrible inhumanity.
Saying to a grieving parent "just make another kid" does not gloss over their lost child.
Saying to an African American "slavery is in the past" does not excuse the treatment.
If you think that simply being harder makes you better than you are damn wrong. Think of the German civilians who just ignored the Jewish genocide and death camps happening down the road: their hard cold selfish nature was blind to the monstrosity. It is strength of heart, of soul, that should be striven for, not of hardening.
If you are a hard ass then bully for you; next time someone calls you something then by all means bugger off elsewhere and tell someone who cares, if you want to play it that way.
There has Never, and will Never, be a move to see that censorship is enforced to the point of stupidity where all someone has to do is to cry out and have all of DU stop as they investigate the heinous crime and see the source punished as much as possible. Stop talking about that. Looking at you todski and rabbit. DU is not mob ruled; it does not needlessly ostracise or wound or overly avenge against wrongdoers.
If not holding all the facts or aware of the entire situation; there is always the option to stay quiet and not butt in with possibly ill-informed ideas. But, oh! Shock, horror! DU has always, and will always let people talk without knowing everything; is that not rather sensible? Some of that 'grey/gray' stuff certain members feel so keen on getting their hands and eyes on are actually very boring and laborious bunches of words not of much value to mortal or beast; but of some value in a larger picture of a tit-for-tat situation or targeted situation. One reason that such things stay in the shadows is so that everyone does not see it and decide to form a lynch mob and start buying torches and pitchforks in bulk to run out the monster of the site for all eternity. Or even that individual members decide they are judge, jury and executioner, and end up doing more injury to the culprit far more than the guilty ever has done.
I have been here for a bloody long time. I have been a mod for a considerable time. My time here speaks for itself.
Now if you find the immediate above offensive or a threat, then I have no current solution, it is merely fact.
I am roused and letting the tide of words flow. For now it shall recede.
Bollocks to hardening up.
Utter rubbish unfit for humanity.
Saying to a cancer patient to "suck it up" does not make the cancer go away.
Saying to an unfortunately suddenly developed orphan to "get over it" will not get their parents back.
Saying to a rape victim to "forget about it" does not remove the sexual assault.
Saying to a genocide survivor "well you survived so what is the problem" does not wash away the terrible inhumanity.
Saying to a grieving parent "just make another kid" does not gloss over their lost child.
Saying to an African American "slavery is in the past" does not excuse the treatment.
If you think that simply being harder makes you better than you are damn wrong. Think of the German civilians who just ignored the Jewish genocide and death camps happening down the road: their hard cold selfish nature was blind to the monstrosity. It is strength of heart, of soul, that should be striven for, not of hardening.
If you are a hard ass then bully for you; next time someone calls you something then by all means bugger off elsewhere and tell someone who cares, if you want to play it that way.
There has Never, and will Never, be a move to see that censorship is enforced to the point of stupidity where all someone has to do is to cry out and have all of DU stop as they investigate the heinous crime and see the source punished as much as possible. Stop talking about that. Looking at you todski and rabbit. DU is not mob ruled; it does not needlessly ostracise or wound or overly avenge against wrongdoers.
If not holding all the facts or aware of the entire situation; there is always the option to stay quiet and not butt in with possibly ill-informed ideas. But, oh! Shock, horror! DU has always, and will always let people talk without knowing everything; is that not rather sensible? Some of that 'grey/gray' stuff certain members feel so keen on getting their hands and eyes on are actually very boring and laborious bunches of words not of much value to mortal or beast; but of some value in a larger picture of a tit-for-tat situation or targeted situation. One reason that such things stay in the shadows is so that everyone does not see it and decide to form a lynch mob and start buying torches and pitchforks in bulk to run out the monster of the site for all eternity. Or even that individual members decide they are judge, jury and executioner, and end up doing more injury to the culprit far more than the guilty ever has done.
I have been here for a bloody long time. I have been a mod for a considerable time. My time here speaks for itself.
Now if you find the immediate above offensive or a threat, then I have no current solution, it is merely fact.
I am roused and letting the tide of words flow. For now it shall recede.
good evenin' Lord V
I think its absolutely fabulous you're roused. welcome back to the world of rousedness !!
so, as you say "bollox to hardning up" I would say every olympian with a disability would probably contemplate kicking the shit out of you for even thinking that or other's who've hardened the fuck up and overcome. so obviously there are thousands of examples of how hardening the fuck up not only works but saves people's lives (especially where bullies are concerned) so I think its a bit mad there's such a distaste for it among those who care so passionately
I'm not suggesting a mandatory harden the fuck up for every member. I'm suggesting there's no one size fits all fix, and you could in theory do just as much harm than good, to suggest otherwise would be opposite...
I think its absolutely fabulous you're roused. welcome back to the world of rousedness !!
so, as you say "bollox to hardning up" I would say every olympian with a disability would probably contemplate kicking the shit out of you for even thinking that or other's who've hardened the fuck up and overcome. so obviously there are thousands of examples of how hardening the fuck up not only works but saves people's lives (especially where bullies are concerned) so I think its a bit mad there's such a distaste for it among those who care so passionately
I'm not suggesting a mandatory harden the fuck up for every member. I'm suggesting there's no one size fits all fix, and you could in theory do just as much harm than good, to suggest otherwise would be opposite...
for every 10 that make it more that 48,000 don't or die trying, many being bullied to harden up and stop swinging the lead. I love the smell of irony in the morning. Also if a disabled Olympian was to kick the shit out of anyone for making a suggest then they are not Olympians, not role models, not hard, just subhuman just like the rest of the bullies on this planet.
To do nothing in the face of deliberate cruelty is t be a party to at, a silent enabler - I will not be that person
if you would like a list of why I am not an Olympian I can furnish that
I could also send you list of the people / groups that I respect more
Your loyal servant
David Macleod MOD to the stars and beyond!
To do nothing in the face of deliberate cruelty is t be a party to at, a silent enabler - I will not be that person
if you would like a list of why I am not an Olympian I can furnish that
I could also send you list of the people / groups that I respect more
Your loyal servant
David Macleod MOD to the stars and beyond!
lepperochan said:good evenin' Lord V
I think its absolutely fabulous you're roused. welcome back to the world of rousedness !!
so, as you say "bollox to hardning up" I would say every olympian with a disability would probably contemplate kicking the shit out of you for even thinking that or other's who've hardened the fuck up and overcome. so obviously there are thousands of examples of how hardening the fuck up not only works but saves people's lives (especially where bullies are concerned) so I think its a bit mad there's such a distaste for it among those who care so passionately
I'm not suggesting a mandatory harden the fuck up for every member. I'm suggesting there's no one size fits all fix, and you could in theory do just as much harm than good, to suggest otherwise would be opposite...
That's so true. Not everyone have the same capacity to cope and heal. Hardened can be good, but one should not be callous.
On this subject of acceptable free speech and expression, everyone is entitled to express themselves, in whatever way they want. However, it is always commendable to be sensitive to others, especially where disability is concerned.
I think its absolutely fabulous you're roused. welcome back to the world of rousedness !!
so, as you say "bollox to hardning up" I would say every olympian with a disability would probably contemplate kicking the shit out of you for even thinking that or other's who've hardened the fuck up and overcome. so obviously there are thousands of examples of how hardening the fuck up not only works but saves people's lives (especially where bullies are concerned) so I think its a bit mad there's such a distaste for it among those who care so passionately
I'm not suggesting a mandatory harden the fuck up for every member. I'm suggesting there's no one size fits all fix, and you could in theory do just as much harm than good, to suggest otherwise would be opposite...
That's so true. Not everyone have the same capacity to cope and heal. Hardened can be good, but one should not be callous.
On this subject of acceptable free speech and expression, everyone is entitled to express themselves, in whatever way they want. However, it is always commendable to be sensitive to others, especially where disability is concerned.
G'mornin, David
fair enough, the Olympian was a bad example. seemed ok at the time.
a list, no. who says you're not anyway.
surely there's enough of a a shard of truth to at least warrant further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker
I agree to stand idol and let would be complicit. there is of course communication :
"hullo, I noticed you've been getting s bit of a time off some cunt, is there anything I can do to help"
in my time here as a member I've sent countless pm's to strangers which read the same. ( by asking, I didn't automatically precieve weakness
Hullo Grace, very wisdomful 😎
fair enough, the Olympian was a bad example. seemed ok at the time.
a list, no. who says you're not anyway.
surely there's enough of a a shard of truth to at least warrant further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker
I agree to stand idol and let would be complicit. there is of course communication :
"hullo, I noticed you've been getting s bit of a time off some cunt, is there anything I can do to help"
in my time here as a member I've sent countless pm's to strangers which read the same. ( by asking, I didn't automatically precieve weakness
Hullo Grace, very wisdomful 😎
lepperochan said:G'mornin, David
fair enough, the Olympian was a bad example. seemed ok at the time.
a list, no. who says you're not anyway.
surely there's enough of a a shard of truth to at least warrant further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker
I agree to stand idol and let would be complicit. there is of course communication :
"hullo, I noticed you've been getting s bit of a time off some cunt, is there anything I can do to help"
in my time here as a member I've sent countless pm's to strangers which read the same. ( by asking, I didn't automatically precieve weakness
Hullo Grace, very wisdomful 😎
Good afternoon Sir
The Olympian was not a bad example at all but sadly it can only be applied to a small group of people who would have these capabilities. Would also say there are many people that gain inspiration from such people
In my mind I could be an Olympian but then in my mind I can be Fred Astaire or Ginger Rogers, for that matter
Absolutely correct more than a shard this is what debate is about I would welcome "further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker"
Communication is as always a double edged sword but without it we are lost
I think I'll call the Equaliser he seems to sort everything out (lol)
Does this make you sensitive or insensitive to be honest I don't know
Yes Grace is very wise
fair enough, the Olympian was a bad example. seemed ok at the time.
a list, no. who says you're not anyway.
surely there's enough of a a shard of truth to at least warrant further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker
I agree to stand idol and let would be complicit. there is of course communication :
"hullo, I noticed you've been getting s bit of a time off some cunt, is there anything I can do to help"
in my time here as a member I've sent countless pm's to strangers which read the same. ( by asking, I didn't automatically precieve weakness
Hullo Grace, very wisdomful 😎
Good afternoon Sir
The Olympian was not a bad example at all but sadly it can only be applied to a small group of people who would have these capabilities. Would also say there are many people that gain inspiration from such people
In my mind I could be an Olympian but then in my mind I can be Fred Astaire or Ginger Rogers, for that matter
Absolutely correct more than a shard this is what debate is about I would welcome "further thought into the way which we all treat people whom we precieves as weaker"
Communication is as always a double edged sword but without it we are lost
I think I'll call the Equaliser he seems to sort everything out (lol)
Does this make you sensitive or insensitive to be honest I don't know
Yes Grace is very wise
Craic, I would still say its utter Bollocks, even in the Olympian example. Any hardening up is done through their choice; it is not a hardening up enforced upon them. Or, rather, they already had the capability to harden up, so any disability just highlighted it. Extra counter-point; a disabled Olympian (disability first then to the Olympics, or Olympian first then disability thrust upon them) their disabled status/identity has bugger all to do with hardening up - not everyone gets back up when knocked down: not to diminish those who do get back up but it does not make the getting back up the only standard or norm.
Hardening Up is also completely different from Overcoming: the former demands an instant change in nature and temperament, whereas the latter is a development and extension. Hardening Up is like demanding a child's pedal car turn into a Formula One Car, on the basis that both have four wheels and a steering wheel. Whereas Overcoming is another child's pedal car losing it's back wheels, having a sled bit added to the back, putting it on top of a hill and going like the clappers down the hill much to the chagrin and envy of every other kid who sees (and to the worry of a few parents who see.) Hardening Up is expecting the underdog to sprout wings and soar over the competition, whilst Overcoming in the underdog using an ability inherent to it or a weakness of the opposition to come out on top. Hardening Up is not about being the toughest or strongest, it is about being impossibly stronger and tougher than you currently are whilst still being the same at the same time: it is the shouting at a perceived weakness of failing in order to change it by brutal force of will alone with no idea of the implications or how to actually change and develop the thing in order to actually be better; it is the tantrum and belligerent knee jerk reaction that is out of synch with reality.
Hardening Up is also completely different from Overcoming: the former demands an instant change in nature and temperament, whereas the latter is a development and extension. Hardening Up is like demanding a child's pedal car turn into a Formula One Car, on the basis that both have four wheels and a steering wheel. Whereas Overcoming is another child's pedal car losing it's back wheels, having a sled bit added to the back, putting it on top of a hill and going like the clappers down the hill much to the chagrin and envy of every other kid who sees (and to the worry of a few parents who see.) Hardening Up is expecting the underdog to sprout wings and soar over the competition, whilst Overcoming in the underdog using an ability inherent to it or a weakness of the opposition to come out on top. Hardening Up is not about being the toughest or strongest, it is about being impossibly stronger and tougher than you currently are whilst still being the same at the same time: it is the shouting at a perceived weakness of failing in order to change it by brutal force of will alone with no idea of the implications or how to actually change and develop the thing in order to actually be better; it is the tantrum and belligerent knee jerk reaction that is out of synch with reality.
Viddax
I would say suggesting someone harden up is hardy enforcing anything on anyone.
" Hardening Up is like demanding a child's pedal car turn into a Formula One Car, on the basis that both have four wheels and a steering wheel"
no. Hardening up is not letting the dicks with the formula one cars hurt you by pointing out you've not got one. its not demanding anything..
"Hardening Up is expecting the underdog to sprout wings and soar over the competition"
hardening up is not expecting anything from anyone. its not giving a fuck whether you lose the race of not...
I would suggest the knee-jerk tantrum you spoke of is apparent in both your "utter Bollocks" posts, and further suggest you possess little or no understanding of what hardening up actually is or entails -hense the very weak analogies you put forward-
again, I don't think we can look upon these things with a general blanket. in some cases it might be prudent to step in, in some cases it might be best to suggest or encourage a hardening, in some cases something compleatly different could be best...
David
I've thought about this for some hours. didn't come up with much but I hope it goes some way to illustrate my thoughts :
we're all weaker than others in some way. be it a physical or mental weaknesses. and we all have strengths. some apparent, some no so apparent
I believe our treatment of people who we precieve as weaker than us varies from kid-glove to disrespect / disdain depending on what we precieve as the weakness and why we looked for it in the first place
there are those who see kindness as a weakness...
I think the way we see people is inextricably linked to the way we see ourselves. we know too well what our own weaknesses' are and in our effort to hide them from others or try make ourselves feel better about them we will look for, find, or invent weakness in others
how we act after that is down to our character and most likely indicitive of how we treat people in general
in terms of sensitive or insensitive, I'm both (as plainly visiable) though I prefer fallable.
I would say suggesting someone harden up is hardy enforcing anything on anyone.
" Hardening Up is like demanding a child's pedal car turn into a Formula One Car, on the basis that both have four wheels and a steering wheel"
no. Hardening up is not letting the dicks with the formula one cars hurt you by pointing out you've not got one. its not demanding anything..
"Hardening Up is expecting the underdog to sprout wings and soar over the competition"
hardening up is not expecting anything from anyone. its not giving a fuck whether you lose the race of not...
I would suggest the knee-jerk tantrum you spoke of is apparent in both your "utter Bollocks" posts, and further suggest you possess little or no understanding of what hardening up actually is or entails -hense the very weak analogies you put forward-
again, I don't think we can look upon these things with a general blanket. in some cases it might be prudent to step in, in some cases it might be best to suggest or encourage a hardening, in some cases something compleatly different could be best...
David
I've thought about this for some hours. didn't come up with much but I hope it goes some way to illustrate my thoughts :
we're all weaker than others in some way. be it a physical or mental weaknesses. and we all have strengths. some apparent, some no so apparent
I believe our treatment of people who we precieve as weaker than us varies from kid-glove to disrespect / disdain depending on what we precieve as the weakness and why we looked for it in the first place
there are those who see kindness as a weakness...
I think the way we see people is inextricably linked to the way we see ourselves. we know too well what our own weaknesses' are and in our effort to hide them from others or try make ourselves feel better about them we will look for, find, or invent weakness in others
how we act after that is down to our character and most likely indicitive of how we treat people in general
in terms of sensitive or insensitive, I'm both (as plainly visiable) though I prefer fallable.
Seems I am not familiar with hardening up, or rather the above was my interpretation of it. Though I do not exactly see you furnishing a suitable explanation.
With each example given above hardening up seems to lack empathy: that person 1 says to person 2 to not mind/notice on the basis that person 1 is not invested emotionally or in any way in the situation. It just seems a rather poor conveying of detachment and Zen like philosophy. I hardly think hardening up expects nothing from nobody; it is explicitly telling the receiver to harden up/ to change: it does not seem to be used in terms of an option in most uses. Though you may well know a lot of people Craic who tell others to harden up if they want to, not forcing them to, or something along those lines.
Given that there are other options: to do nothing or 'encourage' a hardening or other, the harden up way still seems to be rather lacking in various manners: not exactly the skilled perfect for the moment way. No point using a horse and cart if a car is faster and more easily accessible for a quick journey is there?
Going back to the topic in hand; hardening up seems to be often phrased as an ultimatum by people who cannot be bothered to actually help the situation, who then feel they did the right thing when called out by others who are more emotionally sensitive and empathetic. With the harden squad then sometimes using free speech and freedom of expression to argue that they should not be questioned or made to feel wrong in any manner, even though other people disagree with the harden squad's words. The hardeners then thinking that if they cannot say what they usually say, it must mean that no one can say anything anymore, that there is no free speech anymore and prone to throwing a tantrum. Rather than saying they might have been wrong, or they were trying to help, or even better just being quiet and walking away rather than trying to legitimise their nature in an occasion where it was necessarily suited.
It is the general case where saying or doing 'x' on DU is taken into question and rather than constructive debate or just acceptance on every side, a slugging match of the pro and anti 'x' develops clogging up the site with rubbish nonsense that do little but raise anger and not views.
Having said that I am at some fault as I am a very anti-harden up person. It would be acceptable amongst friends, but here on DU the phrase and other phrases have been used by near strangers, who also seem to forget that phrasing and communication loses a great deal on the internet. Brining us right back to a heated shouting match over the use of words, which Moderators and Prolific Members then have to deal with in order to leave room for the normal nonsense of everyday DU life and life in general without the heated debate being the end all and epitome of DU for all time, eternity and attention.
With each example given above hardening up seems to lack empathy: that person 1 says to person 2 to not mind/notice on the basis that person 1 is not invested emotionally or in any way in the situation. It just seems a rather poor conveying of detachment and Zen like philosophy. I hardly think hardening up expects nothing from nobody; it is explicitly telling the receiver to harden up/ to change: it does not seem to be used in terms of an option in most uses. Though you may well know a lot of people Craic who tell others to harden up if they want to, not forcing them to, or something along those lines.
Given that there are other options: to do nothing or 'encourage' a hardening or other, the harden up way still seems to be rather lacking in various manners: not exactly the skilled perfect for the moment way. No point using a horse and cart if a car is faster and more easily accessible for a quick journey is there?
Going back to the topic in hand; hardening up seems to be often phrased as an ultimatum by people who cannot be bothered to actually help the situation, who then feel they did the right thing when called out by others who are more emotionally sensitive and empathetic. With the harden squad then sometimes using free speech and freedom of expression to argue that they should not be questioned or made to feel wrong in any manner, even though other people disagree with the harden squad's words. The hardeners then thinking that if they cannot say what they usually say, it must mean that no one can say anything anymore, that there is no free speech anymore and prone to throwing a tantrum. Rather than saying they might have been wrong, or they were trying to help, or even better just being quiet and walking away rather than trying to legitimise their nature in an occasion where it was necessarily suited.
It is the general case where saying or doing 'x' on DU is taken into question and rather than constructive debate or just acceptance on every side, a slugging match of the pro and anti 'x' develops clogging up the site with rubbish nonsense that do little but raise anger and not views.
Having said that I am at some fault as I am a very anti-harden up person. It would be acceptable amongst friends, but here on DU the phrase and other phrases have been used by near strangers, who also seem to forget that phrasing and communication loses a great deal on the internet. Brining us right back to a heated shouting match over the use of words, which Moderators and Prolific Members then have to deal with in order to leave room for the normal nonsense of everyday DU life and life in general without the heated debate being the end all and epitome of DU for all time, eternity and attention.
G"day
you're absolutly correct. stuff gets lost in translation and "harden up" can read abbrasive. even among friends
I think the first brushes we have with the suggestion would be through our parents when we were but tiny things bumbling around the place and taking knocks and falls
kid takes a knock walks into a door or something. not mad serious. he's not crying but his mouth is quivering. theres a tiny intervil here where the kid looks to his mother/ father/ friend for direction on how hurt he is. all he needs is someone to gasp and he'll be real hurt
revenge / voilence :
"did the door hurt your head" *takes kid over to door and smacks the door* "now, door. dont you hurt my kid again. I'll hurt you"
mentalist:
"aww, c'mere" *hug*
"that must have hurt. lemme see if you need band aid or a doctor. if we need a doctor we might have to chop youre head off ... or worse.
*has look*
"hard to tell. which do you think?"
neither are ideal if used exclusively. and theres probably a trillion other methods parents use
perhaps we do the same with ourselves when we get older. use different methods / people to direct how hurt we are/ should be and what we need in order to make it go away, so to speak
far as the recent bans. must confess, we were on page two before i realized what the thread was actually about.
didnt read the poems. never do. others did. probably deserved a bigger ban. ....YOU MODS ARE TOO LENIANT !!!
you're absolutly correct. stuff gets lost in translation and "harden up" can read abbrasive. even among friends
I think the first brushes we have with the suggestion would be through our parents when we were but tiny things bumbling around the place and taking knocks and falls
kid takes a knock walks into a door or something. not mad serious. he's not crying but his mouth is quivering. theres a tiny intervil here where the kid looks to his mother/ father/ friend for direction on how hurt he is. all he needs is someone to gasp and he'll be real hurt
revenge / voilence :
"did the door hurt your head" *takes kid over to door and smacks the door* "now, door. dont you hurt my kid again. I'll hurt you"
mentalist:
"aww, c'mere" *hug*
"that must have hurt. lemme see if you need band aid or a doctor. if we need a doctor we might have to chop youre head off ... or worse.
*has look*
"hard to tell. which do you think?"
neither are ideal if used exclusively. and theres probably a trillion other methods parents use
perhaps we do the same with ourselves when we get older. use different methods / people to direct how hurt we are/ should be and what we need in order to make it go away, so to speak
far as the recent bans. must confess, we were on page two before i realized what the thread was actually about.
didnt read the poems. never do. others did. probably deserved a bigger ban. ....YOU MODS ARE TOO LENIANT !!!
Just To Say , Not To Anyone In Particular :
Bull View
Some Are Pros At Conning People With A Bull Eye View
Some Just Bull Shit It's What They Know How To Do ,
Some Defend Some Need To Mend Some Send A Reminder
To The Self To Be A Little Kinder So Not To Be Any Blinder
Than They Already May Be To Help Them See The Pain
Of Each Day Some Endure Until They Can't Take Anymore
And Every Insult Is A Stain On An Emotional Mainframe
And Every Flame Is Just Burning Rubber On The Brain ;
Hang Them High While You Deny The Snare Is There
And Some Just Don't / Can't See Or Just Don't Care
Waiting Like Beasts In A Lair For Any To Stumble In
As Though Just To Be A Sensitive Was A Mortal Sin
Throw A Brick Until Heart Is Hard , And Skin Is Thick
Pierce Them With Your Word Nasty Ice Pick Shitck
Like A Dip In An Acid Bath , Wrath Stripping Away
All Feelings Of Love For Oneself , Is That Really Okay ?
Just Because Some Are Born Empath Nature Raw
Or Are Damaged By What They Heard And Saw
Is The Law To Push To The Edge Of Their Razor Blade
Is This Really How You Are Made To Just Let Fade
That Spark Of Humanity Not Care About Life's Calamities
To Some Of Us That Is What We Call Personal Insanity !
Bull View
Some Are Pros At Conning People With A Bull Eye View
Some Just Bull Shit It's What They Know How To Do ,
Some Defend Some Need To Mend Some Send A Reminder
To The Self To Be A Little Kinder So Not To Be Any Blinder
Than They Already May Be To Help Them See The Pain
Of Each Day Some Endure Until They Can't Take Anymore
And Every Insult Is A Stain On An Emotional Mainframe
And Every Flame Is Just Burning Rubber On The Brain ;
Hang Them High While You Deny The Snare Is There
And Some Just Don't / Can't See Or Just Don't Care
Waiting Like Beasts In A Lair For Any To Stumble In
As Though Just To Be A Sensitive Was A Mortal Sin
Throw A Brick Until Heart Is Hard , And Skin Is Thick
Pierce Them With Your Word Nasty Ice Pick Shitck
Like A Dip In An Acid Bath , Wrath Stripping Away
All Feelings Of Love For Oneself , Is That Really Okay ?
Just Because Some Are Born Empath Nature Raw
Or Are Damaged By What They Heard And Saw
Is The Law To Push To The Edge Of Their Razor Blade
Is This Really How You Are Made To Just Let Fade
That Spark Of Humanity Not Care About Life's Calamities
To Some Of Us That Is What We Call Personal Insanity !
