Acceptable Free Speech and Expression
I thought Madame Lavender had done a great job some months ago of making it clear enough on our response to certain kinds of behaviour and the zero tolerance of such. I think most people got it but clearly some didn't. I feel compelled at this point in time to be transparent and honest despite some suggestions being made to the contrary.
DU became my salvation and in reality was a life saver for me and I hold DU in the highest regard and have always show it loyalty and respect. I will always feel that way about this site regardless of opposing views.
Somebody on DU once told me that free speech cannot be unfettered and it must be tempered with responsibility to this community, at the time I was unsure of that argument but now I am.
DU welcomes debate, hell even heated debate this is artists reasonably exercising their freedom of speech and expression as is their right. But, there is always a but, If we allow spirited debate to descend to personal insults, flaming individual members, threatening individual members, lying and publicly smearing individual members all these things come under the heading of bullying or attempting to bully, all are unacceptable and do not belong here in this community.
So let me be crystal clear on where I stand. As a MOD I will not allow bullying and personal insults to go unanswered. So if you are going to abuse other members in your poetry, in your comments, in private messages or forum posts then your abusive comments will be removed and you will face possible bans regardless of who you are or who you think you are. Nobody on this site has earned the right to be a bully or an abuser of other members. This is how a community should operate where we look out for one another. There are many broken people on this site who might be unable to respond to bullying and abuse, everyone here needs protection from such predators and morons.
So that is a zero tolerance effort and one which I am more than happy to enact.
One last piece of clarity these are my views and how I intend to proceed as a MOD other MODs may agree or disagree and I am sure there may well be debates, but this is my bottom line and I will defend this position to all comers. If the MODs decide the policy should not be this way or if the webmistress instructs me otherwise, as a loyal member of DU I will respect their decisions and comply with them
David (Crystal Clear) Macleod
DU became my salvation and in reality was a life saver for me and I hold DU in the highest regard and have always show it loyalty and respect. I will always feel that way about this site regardless of opposing views.
Somebody on DU once told me that free speech cannot be unfettered and it must be tempered with responsibility to this community, at the time I was unsure of that argument but now I am.
DU welcomes debate, hell even heated debate this is artists reasonably exercising their freedom of speech and expression as is their right. But, there is always a but, If we allow spirited debate to descend to personal insults, flaming individual members, threatening individual members, lying and publicly smearing individual members all these things come under the heading of bullying or attempting to bully, all are unacceptable and do not belong here in this community.
So let me be crystal clear on where I stand. As a MOD I will not allow bullying and personal insults to go unanswered. So if you are going to abuse other members in your poetry, in your comments, in private messages or forum posts then your abusive comments will be removed and you will face possible bans regardless of who you are or who you think you are. Nobody on this site has earned the right to be a bully or an abuser of other members. This is how a community should operate where we look out for one another. There are many broken people on this site who might be unable to respond to bullying and abuse, everyone here needs protection from such predators and morons.
So that is a zero tolerance effort and one which I am more than happy to enact.
One last piece of clarity these are my views and how I intend to proceed as a MOD other MODs may agree or disagree and I am sure there may well be debates, but this is my bottom line and I will defend this position to all comers. If the MODs decide the policy should not be this way or if the webmistress instructs me otherwise, as a loyal member of DU I will respect their decisions and comply with them
David (Crystal Clear) Macleod
About Time Someone Really Said It...;)
I followed the actions I saw already being accepted , which at the time I joined ,
were different than what I see and hear now being promoted , which are more
within my privately held views ;
I am more than willing to accept and follow the idea of respect , and demanded
equality of action and reaction , and see the benefit of such policy ;
Very often on a site those who have been online on a site longer ,
feel , and often innately demand more leeway , and supremacy , yet
often are the ones who abuse rules , feeling they are impervious to
discipline...
I see this as an abuse , and an assumed privilege , leading to cliques
and clans above and under the table of attempted manipulation of
the "powers that be" , and rebellion when they do not get their desired way ;
Therefore , I align myself with you in this position , David , and pledge my
allegience to you , and Madame Lavender in the attempt to bring this site
under a fair and impartial banner , no matter the length of time members
have been here , nor what positions within the site they may hold ;
If there are those who cannot respect this , may they feel totally entitled to
move on to another site more to their liking , and disposition ;
Thank you for your outspoken , yet truthful and fair nature , and know I will
support your , Madame Lavender , And others positions , that exemplify a
truly fair , and honest site , that will assist in the safety and care of it's members !
Best to you and all mods who support this position !
I followed the actions I saw already being accepted , which at the time I joined ,
were different than what I see and hear now being promoted , which are more
within my privately held views ;
I am more than willing to accept and follow the idea of respect , and demanded
equality of action and reaction , and see the benefit of such policy ;
Very often on a site those who have been online on a site longer ,
feel , and often innately demand more leeway , and supremacy , yet
often are the ones who abuse rules , feeling they are impervious to
discipline...
I see this as an abuse , and an assumed privilege , leading to cliques
and clans above and under the table of attempted manipulation of
the "powers that be" , and rebellion when they do not get their desired way ;
Therefore , I align myself with you in this position , David , and pledge my
allegience to you , and Madame Lavender in the attempt to bring this site
under a fair and impartial banner , no matter the length of time members
have been here , nor what positions within the site they may hold ;
If there are those who cannot respect this , may they feel totally entitled to
move on to another site more to their liking , and disposition ;
Thank you for your outspoken , yet truthful and fair nature , and know I will
support your , Madame Lavender , And others positions , that exemplify a
truly fair , and honest site , that will assist in the safety and care of it's members !
Best to you and all mods who support this position !
The psychological war
on the weak willed
the confused
the lost souls
who wear
their ignorant masks
with Arrogance
has begun
Where all words
are considered
as Violence
when opinions
are not excepted
a new link
has now been forged
in our chains
of inner loneliness
and pain
where all the safe spaces
where the snowflakes believe
that they can Avoid
the Suffering
of an open mind
Because one has been
psychologically designed
to be
what one is now
does not mean
one has to be
what one
does not believe
when one looks deep
within ones thoughts
one has contained
within ones cave
of sad
agreeable excuses
on the reasons why
one cannot be
what one deeply feels
deep down
within
the chaos that rages
though a life
that should have been
challenging the ones
who demand
that you stay
in your cave
psychologically designed
to be
what one is now
does not mean
one has to be
what one
does not believe
when one looks deep
within ones thoughts
one has contained
within ones cave
of sad
agreeable excuses
on the reasons why
one cannot be
what one deeply feels
deep down
within
the chaos that rages
though a life
that should have been
challenging the ones
who demand
that you stay
in your cave
To the chimpanzee mentality people
on this site
who bitch whine and moan
who only understands
bitter words of hate
this is for you
Sad times
come
when your of age
inner loneliness
will break you
on life's stage
ringing the bells of ignorance
in your rage
knowing
deep down
you built the cage
on this site
who bitch whine and moan
who only understands
bitter words of hate
this is for you
Sad times
come
when your of age
inner loneliness
will break you
on life's stage
ringing the bells of ignorance
in your rage
knowing
deep down
you built the cage
Cannot say I have anything to disagree with what you have said David.
Just wanted to add that friendly banter is still acceptable, with the majority of users knowing quite well what that means; before anyone goes screaming their head off about clamping down on free speech and not being able to chat without fear of reprisal. Meaning competitions specifically designed for members to join into a battle of words, or rap battle, or tit-for-tat, in a clearly stated and designated area are fine; where all parties involved accept the nature of the competition and getting into an amicable slug-fest.
With cases where a member or members have not volunteered in any manner to have unwarranted and unwelcomed abuse, name calling, or belittling of anything of theirs, are not tolerated. Repeat; Not Tolerated. And any fancy schmancy wordplay to pervert the course of responsibility and of behaviour, will not work.
We now return you to your scheduled public information broadcast.
Ministry Of Words: where it is all green and the weeds are plucked out.
Just wanted to add that friendly banter is still acceptable, with the majority of users knowing quite well what that means; before anyone goes screaming their head off about clamping down on free speech and not being able to chat without fear of reprisal. Meaning competitions specifically designed for members to join into a battle of words, or rap battle, or tit-for-tat, in a clearly stated and designated area are fine; where all parties involved accept the nature of the competition and getting into an amicable slug-fest.
With cases where a member or members have not volunteered in any manner to have unwarranted and unwelcomed abuse, name calling, or belittling of anything of theirs, are not tolerated. Repeat; Not Tolerated. And any fancy schmancy wordplay to pervert the course of responsibility and of behaviour, will not work.
We now return you to your scheduled public information broadcast.
Ministry Of Words: where it is all green and the weeds are plucked out.
Anonymous
Can I just say to all the mods (yes all of you) that you’ve had a trying time lately and thank you for what you do. Giving up your free time to do.
Now, as long as I can still drop an f-bomb here and there (because I can’t stop swearing, it’s genuinly one of my few pleasures in life that I still have. Talk to me some time on the phone - it just comes out like lava... ) then please God(s) let normal service resume ASAP.
It’s been a long ass few weeks. Peace, love, happiness.... and all that bollocks if you will.
Now, as long as I can still drop an f-bomb here and there (because I can’t stop swearing, it’s genuinly one of my few pleasures in life that I still have. Talk to me some time on the phone - it just comes out like lava... ) then please God(s) let normal service resume ASAP.
It’s been a long ass few weeks. Peace, love, happiness.... and all that bollocks if you will.
drone said:
The psychological war
on the weak willed
the confused
the lost souls
who wear
their ignorant masks
with Arrogance
has begun
Where all words
are considered
as Violence
when opinions
are not excepted
a new link
has now been forged
in our chains
of inner loneliness
and pain
where all the safe spaces
where the snowflakes believe
that they can Avoid
the Suffering
of an open mind
some nicely put poetic views and opinions - here these are sought after and encouraged - thank you for your input
The psychological war
on the weak willed
the confused
the lost souls
who wear
their ignorant masks
with Arrogance
has begun
Where all words
are considered
as Violence
when opinions
are not excepted
a new link
has now been forged
in our chains
of inner loneliness
and pain
where all the safe spaces
where the snowflakes believe
that they can Avoid
the Suffering
of an open mind
some nicely put poetic views and opinions - here these are sought after and encouraged - thank you for your input
drone said:Because one has been
psychologically designed
to be
what one is now
does not mean
one has to be
what one
does not believe
when one looks deep
within ones thoughts
one has contained
within ones cave
of sad
agreeable excuses
on the reasons why
one cannot be
what one deeply feels
deep down
within
the chaos that rages
though a life
that should have been
challenging the ones
who demand
that you stay
in your cave
again more fascinating stuff - thank you for your contributions
psychologically designed
to be
what one is now
does not mean
one has to be
what one
does not believe
when one looks deep
within ones thoughts
one has contained
within ones cave
of sad
agreeable excuses
on the reasons why
one cannot be
what one deeply feels
deep down
within
the chaos that rages
though a life
that should have been
challenging the ones
who demand
that you stay
in your cave
again more fascinating stuff - thank you for your contributions
drone said:To the chimpanzee mentality people
on this site
who bitch whine and moan
who only understands
bitter words of hate
this is for you
Sad times
come
when your of age
inner loneliness
will break you
on life's stage
ringing the bells of ignorance
in your rage
knowing
deep down
you built the cage
it was unexpected as you said earlier to receive such poetic views posted on this forum. Right or wrong all are welcome to post their thoughts - Thank you
on this site
who bitch whine and moan
who only understands
bitter words of hate
this is for you
Sad times
come
when your of age
inner loneliness
will break you
on life's stage
ringing the bells of ignorance
in your rage
knowing
deep down
you built the cage
it was unexpected as you said earlier to receive such poetic views posted on this forum. Right or wrong all are welcome to post their thoughts - Thank you
I think once you put acceptable in front of free, the free went moot. I don't see a grey area. I think, in fairness most of what you've listed out there are no brainer, though I see you've added 'attempted bullying' to the list. I don't really see anything wrong with what you've said per say, I mean, like everything else it does have its implications and areas of muddieness:
for example, if someone displayed all the known criteria of being a fool, would it be an insult to make the person aware of his or her handicap by way of written comment ie : "you sir, are a fool"
moreover wouldn't it be the kinder thing to do. the more community driven thing.
a personal insult could come from anywhere. some people might take the fact that they've few comments n a poem as a personal insult, is everyone who didn't comment to be sanctioned for the insult ?
sometimes the hardest thing to do is stand up for the things we don't believe in.
anyhow, I think you're a good man. so chances are this shit has you at odds with yourself on a regular basis. careful you don't let the Pinochet inside you win haha
for example, if someone displayed all the known criteria of being a fool, would it be an insult to make the person aware of his or her handicap by way of written comment ie : "you sir, are a fool"
moreover wouldn't it be the kinder thing to do. the more community driven thing.
a personal insult could come from anywhere. some people might take the fact that they've few comments n a poem as a personal insult, is everyone who didn't comment to be sanctioned for the insult ?
sometimes the hardest thing to do is stand up for the things we don't believe in.
anyhow, I think you're a good man. so chances are this shit has you at odds with yourself on a regular basis. careful you don't let the Pinochet inside you win haha
And I’ll just add in a link to my post to which David was referring :
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/discuss/read/10345/
It’s unfortunate that the same thing has to keep being said, because then the replies of censorship and mod bullying get brought up. We’re not asking for anyone’s firstborn, we just want a little dignity, class and respect among members . There’s enough rotten things, evil and hate in the world—is it really necessary to add to it?
Yeah, it’s not always peace, love and John Lennon’s “Imagine” around here, but do we really have to be hateful, spiteful assholes to each other? Can we just let it go and steer clear of those members with whom we don’t necessarily see eye to eye with?
It takes a lot more energy to keep a feud going, than to bow out and tend one’s own garden.
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/discuss/read/10345/
It’s unfortunate that the same thing has to keep being said, because then the replies of censorship and mod bullying get brought up. We’re not asking for anyone’s firstborn, we just want a little dignity, class and respect among members . There’s enough rotten things, evil and hate in the world—is it really necessary to add to it?
Yeah, it’s not always peace, love and John Lennon’s “Imagine” around here, but do we really have to be hateful, spiteful assholes to each other? Can we just let it go and steer clear of those members with whom we don’t necessarily see eye to eye with?
It takes a lot more energy to keep a feud going, than to bow out and tend one’s own garden.
I write this in the spirit of conversation amd debate. Doc, I used ypu as an example because i feel you are at the forefront of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors
I mean no dissrespect
for the record, Im not hateful, or spiteful to anyone. Im involved in no fueds, or cliques
I think we keep going around this for a couple of reasons
i think perhaps the one of the main reasons we do is because of these proclamations by guardians :
Madame, you're a decent person who has the site's well being in your heart
you have a set of ideals which you project onto this site. Theyre good clean wholesone ideals, but this isn't your house . a fair percentage of membership dont share your ideals
I've no problem with you shutting down spiteful assholes (note the personal insult )
I'd like to see an example of the bullying which keeps been thrown out there as jusification
and how the fragile and vulnrable are being preditored
plus, of possoble an example of the 'heated debates' whichvare welcomed and enxouraged
I think maybe calling broken people weak is wrong, some of the strongeat people on this site are broken
anyhow, thats about it for now
I mean no dissrespect
for the record, Im not hateful, or spiteful to anyone. Im involved in no fueds, or cliques
I think we keep going around this for a couple of reasons
i think perhaps the one of the main reasons we do is because of these proclamations by guardians :
Madame, you're a decent person who has the site's well being in your heart
you have a set of ideals which you project onto this site. Theyre good clean wholesone ideals, but this isn't your house . a fair percentage of membership dont share your ideals
I've no problem with you shutting down spiteful assholes (note the personal insult )
I'd like to see an example of the bullying which keeps been thrown out there as jusification
and how the fragile and vulnrable are being preditored
plus, of possoble an example of the 'heated debates' whichvare welcomed and enxouraged
I think maybe calling broken people weak is wrong, some of the strongeat people on this site are broken
anyhow, thats about it for now
Anonymous
<< post removed >>
Craic—I see your stance and to add to it , I would go so far as to say that yes, this is my house . It’s yours too, and everyone else’s, so we need to share it. We all project our opinions and beliefs but my big thing is no bullying. As you know from having been a mod, and seeing everything we must check, and how it’s logged, who checks it—the vast majority of things, I’m logged as approving/accepting, so that right there should be an indication of how much I don’t believe in ruling this place through my own personal beliefs .
I’m after the ones who are sending nasty PMs , writing poems with intent to cause hurt or harm to another member , posting threads of the same nature —it doesn’t matter who believes what, there is no need to be so viscous toward another member that they end up in tears , or harming themself in some way.
Vastly different scenarios . We can certainly have spirited debates and such without seeking to cause harm to others—that part is indeed being a bullying asshole.
I’m after the ones who are sending nasty PMs , writing poems with intent to cause hurt or harm to another member , posting threads of the same nature —it doesn’t matter who believes what, there is no need to be so viscous toward another member that they end up in tears , or harming themself in some way.
Vastly different scenarios . We can certainly have spirited debates and such without seeking to cause harm to others—that part is indeed being a bullying asshole.
