Preserving DUP: A Print-on-Demand Anthology
I will let my contributions to DUP dwindle, I am already copying some poems onto Word in thematically grouped headings and then perhaps purge those, keeping those I could happily let any future partner see. It has come at a time of changes for me in this year (Mum's recent death at 91, pending retirement early summer from day job, and a nice new neighbour that I'll treat as a friend and take things slowly with) so perhaps it's not so bad DUP is closing."To everything there is a season...." (Ecclesiastes, written by my kingly namesake.) But I'm not quitting DUP yet.
case28 said:
Obviously one of the biggest challenges we face in compiling this anthology is that many poets are no longer active on DUP, and we may be unable to get their permission before the site closes. However, there are some absolute cracking poems that deserve to be remembered, and it would be a bloody shame to lose them forever.
Under copyright law, fair use allows for the use of copyrighted material without permission if it includes commentary, because it evaluates, explains, or interprets a poem rather than just reprinting it.
This way we honor poets who may not even know their work is being remembered and analysed. If they ever come across the anthology in the future, they might even appreciate that their poetry left a lasting impact.
Besides, honest and constructive critique has been the reason why so many of us improved as writers.
What do the legal eagles think about this potential loophole?
And Daisy, don’t think you’re going to fly under the radar with your skill and talent and not offer to help.
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that if my work was used in this way and I didn't know about it, I'd be pissed. Especially if I had plans for it elsewhere. Many publishers will consider the poem published if it's posted on a public forum like your blog, this website, facebook, etc. and will not publish it in their mag/anthology/etc. So they wouldn't print it anyway. BUT that is changing a bit and publishers might not consider it published and they will print it. If you've put that poem in an anthology without someone's permission, even if it has commentary and satisfies your loophole, you very well might knock them out of a chance for it to be published elsewhere. Because now it absolutely is published. Not to mention them possibly getting into a bit of trouble with their publisher if the publisher finds out it has been published in an anthology and they weren't aware.
Your best bet to keep everyone and their writing safe is to make sure you have releases for everyone. When I publish in magazines, they usually use the email I respond to as their permission, but with books, I've had to have actual contracts. If it were me, I'd want something that has the author's legal name, whatever name they want listed in the anthology, and permission to use their poem (and list the poem's title). It's a hassle, but it should help keep everyone safe.
Obviously one of the biggest challenges we face in compiling this anthology is that many poets are no longer active on DUP, and we may be unable to get their permission before the site closes. However, there are some absolute cracking poems that deserve to be remembered, and it would be a bloody shame to lose them forever.
Under copyright law, fair use allows for the use of copyrighted material without permission if it includes commentary, because it evaluates, explains, or interprets a poem rather than just reprinting it.
This way we honor poets who may not even know their work is being remembered and analysed. If they ever come across the anthology in the future, they might even appreciate that their poetry left a lasting impact.
Besides, honest and constructive critique has been the reason why so many of us improved as writers.
What do the legal eagles think about this potential loophole?
And Daisy, don’t think you’re going to fly under the radar with your skill and talent and not offer to help.
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that if my work was used in this way and I didn't know about it, I'd be pissed. Especially if I had plans for it elsewhere. Many publishers will consider the poem published if it's posted on a public forum like your blog, this website, facebook, etc. and will not publish it in their mag/anthology/etc. So they wouldn't print it anyway. BUT that is changing a bit and publishers might not consider it published and they will print it. If you've put that poem in an anthology without someone's permission, even if it has commentary and satisfies your loophole, you very well might knock them out of a chance for it to be published elsewhere. Because now it absolutely is published. Not to mention them possibly getting into a bit of trouble with their publisher if the publisher finds out it has been published in an anthology and they weren't aware.
Your best bet to keep everyone and their writing safe is to make sure you have releases for everyone. When I publish in magazines, they usually use the email I respond to as their permission, but with books, I've had to have actual contracts. If it were me, I'd want something that has the author's legal name, whatever name they want listed in the anthology, and permission to use their poem (and list the poem's title). It's a hassle, but it should help keep everyone safe.
Just to piggy back off Daisy here, it’s also gonna be a proper ballache if we want to include older user’s poems that might not be members anymore. Especially if we want that diversity between the old and the new. We are celebrating over a decade of time… can’t really have them all from current active members in terms of balance and representation.
This kinda needs addressing before I waste my time selecting submissions that can’t be used.
This kinda needs addressing before I waste my time selecting submissions that can’t be used.
Northern_Soul said:Just to piggy back off Daisy here, it’s also gonna be a proper ballache if we want to include older user’s poems that might not be members anymore. Especially if we want that diversity between the old and the new. We are celebrating over a decade of time… can’t really have them all from current active members in terms of balance and representation.
This kinda needs addressing before I waste my time selecting submissions that can’t be used.
I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer.
I think it's a fine project and my concerns may not be valid. I just want everyone to be safe. Especially the person who actually does the publishing. Because when it comes right down to it, they will be the one who faces any backlash/problems/legalities.
This kinda needs addressing before I waste my time selecting submissions that can’t be used.
I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer.
I think it's a fine project and my concerns may not be valid. I just want everyone to be safe. Especially the person who actually does the publishing. Because when it comes right down to it, they will be the one who faces any backlash/problems/legalities. 
Magdalena said:I'm going to crack on with DU competitions.
I'm stumped with collabs. I did a search and it gave me everything with the word, collaboration in. A mish mash of all sorts. I need my bright pink wellington's to wade through that lot. 🤪
Mags, ask people to submit their fav collabs in a new thread. I know several I will submit.
I'm stumped with collabs. I did a search and it gave me everything with the word, collaboration in. A mish mash of all sorts. I need my bright pink wellington's to wade through that lot. 🤪
Mags, ask people to submit their fav collabs in a new thread. I know several I will submit.
DaisyGrace said:
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that if my work was used in this way and I didn't know about it, I'd be pissed. Especially if I had plans for it elsewhere. Many publishers will consider the poem published if it's posted on a public forum like your blog, this website, facebook, etc. and will not publish it in their mag/anthology/etc. So they wouldn't print it anyway. BUT that is changing a bit and publishers might not consider it published and they will print it. If you've put that poem in an anthology without someone's permission, even if it has commentary and satisfies your loophole, you very well might knock them out of a chance for it to be published elsewhere. Because now it absolutely is published. Not to mention them possibly getting into a bit of trouble with their publisher if the publisher finds out it has been published in an anthology and they weren't aware.
Your best bet to keep everyone and their writing safe is to make sure you have releases for everyone. When I publish in magazines, they usually use the email I respond to as their permission, but with books, I've had to have actual contracts. If it were me, I'd want something that has the author's legal name, whatever name they want listed in the anthology, and permission to use their poem (and list the poem's title). It's a hassle, but it should help keep everyone safe.
I completely understand the concern about potential conflicts with future publication opportunities, but I think it’s important to put this in perspective... If a publisher is going to reject a poem because it was previously made public, they would likely find it online regardless; whether it’s on DU, another poetry website, or even cached in an archive. This is the unfortunate reality for poets sharing their work online. Poets who are serious about traditional publication will often remove or not publish their best work online before submitting it to a publisher.
That being said… our intention with this anthology isn’t to claim anyone’s work or ruin anyone’s opportunity for publication, but rather to preserve pieces that would otherwise be lost when DU shuts down. I would suggest that many of the poets posting poems on DU aren’t writing for commercial publication… we write because creativity and poetry is a moment in time… it’s a snapshot of thoughts, emotions, and perspectives that would otherwise disappear.
For poets who are not active on DU, we’ll do everything we can to hunt them down on social media in our efforts to contact them. If we can’t, the curators will collectively decide how to handle those situations with respect and fairness.
At the end of the day, this is a non-profit, community-driven effort to celebrate the voices that shaped DU. And while copyright is an important discussion, we also have to ask: What is the real risk here? How many DU poets who have abandoned their poems are serious about publishing their work… and would they actually take legal action over a single poem in a non-commercial project? And, more importantly, how many amazing poems will disappear forever if we do nothing?
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that if my work was used in this way and I didn't know about it, I'd be pissed. Especially if I had plans for it elsewhere. Many publishers will consider the poem published if it's posted on a public forum like your blog, this website, facebook, etc. and will not publish it in their mag/anthology/etc. So they wouldn't print it anyway. BUT that is changing a bit and publishers might not consider it published and they will print it. If you've put that poem in an anthology without someone's permission, even if it has commentary and satisfies your loophole, you very well might knock them out of a chance for it to be published elsewhere. Because now it absolutely is published. Not to mention them possibly getting into a bit of trouble with their publisher if the publisher finds out it has been published in an anthology and they weren't aware.
Your best bet to keep everyone and their writing safe is to make sure you have releases for everyone. When I publish in magazines, they usually use the email I respond to as their permission, but with books, I've had to have actual contracts. If it were me, I'd want something that has the author's legal name, whatever name they want listed in the anthology, and permission to use their poem (and list the poem's title). It's a hassle, but it should help keep everyone safe.
I completely understand the concern about potential conflicts with future publication opportunities, but I think it’s important to put this in perspective... If a publisher is going to reject a poem because it was previously made public, they would likely find it online regardless; whether it’s on DU, another poetry website, or even cached in an archive. This is the unfortunate reality for poets sharing their work online. Poets who are serious about traditional publication will often remove or not publish their best work online before submitting it to a publisher.
That being said… our intention with this anthology isn’t to claim anyone’s work or ruin anyone’s opportunity for publication, but rather to preserve pieces that would otherwise be lost when DU shuts down. I would suggest that many of the poets posting poems on DU aren’t writing for commercial publication… we write because creativity and poetry is a moment in time… it’s a snapshot of thoughts, emotions, and perspectives that would otherwise disappear.
For poets who are not active on DU, we’ll do everything we can to hunt them down on social media in our efforts to contact them. If we can’t, the curators will collectively decide how to handle those situations with respect and fairness.
At the end of the day, this is a non-profit, community-driven effort to celebrate the voices that shaped DU. And while copyright is an important discussion, we also have to ask: What is the real risk here? How many DU poets who have abandoned their poems are serious about publishing their work… and would they actually take legal action over a single poem in a non-commercial project? And, more importantly, how many amazing poems will disappear forever if we do nothing?
Magdalena said:@Case.
We've got 7 weeks before the DU closes down. How long do the curators have to select poems, get permission etc?
I like to know my timelines to get things in order in time, before time, you know what I mean. 🤪
I would suggest that we’ll likely be curating for the whole 7 weeks if we don’t get more help.
We've got 7 weeks before the DU closes down. How long do the curators have to select poems, get permission etc?
I like to know my timelines to get things in order in time, before time, you know what I mean. 🤪
I would suggest that we’ll likely be curating for the whole 7 weeks if we don’t get more help.
DaisyGrace said:
I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I think it's a fine project and my concerns may not be valid. I just want everyone to be safe. Especially the person who actually does the publishing. Because when it comes right down to it, they will be the one who faces any backlash/problems/legalities.
Thanks Debbie…
I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer.
I think it's a fine project and my concerns may not be valid. I just want everyone to be safe. Especially the person who actually does the publishing. Because when it comes right down to it, they will be the one who faces any backlash/problems/legalities. Thanks Debbie…
Northern_Soul said:Any chance of some guidance on when to complete by?
Just trying to balance the spoons my condition allows and my job with a bit of forward planning.
The full 7 weeks likely if we don’t get more help…
I’m well aware that everyone has a life to balance outside of DU, so we do what we can within the time we have left.
Just trying to balance the spoons my condition allows and my job with a bit of forward planning.
The full 7 weeks likely if we don’t get more help…
I’m well aware that everyone has a life to balance outside of DU, so we do what we can within the time we have left.
case28 said:
I would suggest that we’ll likely be curating for the whole 7 weeks if we don’t get more help.
I agree.. we would be needing the whole left out time for curating the poems from a sea of each category ..
with that me lil held up for a week now .. corp year ending wrap up meets:( but yes will be here anytime in between them to do this .. n the whole weeks after this..
Ahavati… that’ a fine idea for a thread for collabs..
Meself needs sure some hand some body .. of a LOVE-laden soul .. to help me in love poems:)
Anyone can reply here or inbox me.. Will reach out to some inner outer du
Fir Hidden gems.. i need to fetch yet another hidden gem as me lol (Case! wow on wat u said on ‘me.. didnt know i was hidden lol.. but ever thot i was bit more visible in du .. whether a gem or not;)
Btw i thought the greatly adored hemihead would be the living love legend of a poet du had ever seen.. n was about to ask him out for Love poems curation.. sad yet glad he volunteered already for erotic;)
listing poems with a justifying divide between old n new as said by Missy .. is gonna be a challenge.. given lot wondrous old goldie poets are nowhere here active ..
Lastly for now.. would request current active n adored poets like Damian, Fia, Vision of insanity (Keith) n more interested .. to jump into this curation of some sections .. would msg you all on this, but as my pen is often bit lazy, dreaming n mad..i count on you soulful ones to take this as a fine embracing invite to join in ♥️✍️
I would suggest that we’ll likely be curating for the whole 7 weeks if we don’t get more help.
I agree.. we would be needing the whole left out time for curating the poems from a sea of each category ..
with that me lil held up for a week now .. corp year ending wrap up meets:( but yes will be here anytime in between them to do this .. n the whole weeks after this..
Ahavati… that’ a fine idea for a thread for collabs..
Meself needs sure some hand some body .. of a LOVE-laden soul .. to help me in love poems:)
Anyone can reply here or inbox me.. Will reach out to some inner outer du
Fir Hidden gems.. i need to fetch yet another hidden gem as me lol (Case! wow on wat u said on ‘me.. didnt know i was hidden lol.. but ever thot i was bit more visible in du .. whether a gem or not;) Btw i thought the greatly adored hemihead would be the living love legend of a poet du had ever seen.. n was about to ask him out for Love poems curation.. sad yet glad he volunteered already for erotic;)
listing poems with a justifying divide between old n new as said by Missy .. is gonna be a challenge.. given lot wondrous old goldie poets are nowhere here active ..
Lastly for now.. would request current active n adored poets like Damian, Fia, Vision of insanity (Keith) n more interested .. to jump into this curation of some sections .. would msg you all on this, but as my pen is often bit lazy, dreaming n mad..i count on you soulful ones to take this as a fine embracing invite to join in
♥️✍️ 
Would it be an idea to ask people who are happy to be included into the anthology to send an open release to an email address soon as possible. start the ball rolling. we can draft them into their respective genres.
lepperochan said:Would it be an idea to ask people who are happy to be included into the anthology to send an open release to an email address soon as possible. start the ball rolling. we can draft them into their respective genres.
I suggested that a while back when I asked where we should email the poems and release forms to. I don't think Case has finalized the logistics yet.
I've been collecting them with the poems. No permission, no poem ( from my categories, anyway ).
I wouldn't want someone taking my work without permission. Every poem on this site is copyrighted.
I suggested that a while back when I asked where we should email the poems and release forms to. I don't think Case has finalized the logistics yet.
I've been collecting them with the poems. No permission, no poem ( from my categories, anyway ).
I wouldn't want someone taking my work without permission. Every poem on this site is copyrighted.
