do we want the BAME competition to be a DUP feature?
52.94%
• 9 votes •
nie
47.06%
• 8 votes •
aye
do we want the BAME competition to be a DUP feature?
anna_grin said:
i know about poetry’s history being much richer than the west’s portrayal.
fact is, fax is, this site typifies that western power imbalance whether we like to admit it or not. founded by the English, overtaken by Americans, and largely ignorant of what that means and the responsibility we have to ensure balance.
i love it here but I’ve seen too many examples of racism and ignorance and have personally spoken to black poets who are loath to get involved because the space is too white. that’s not their problem, it’s ours.
i appreciate your bringing up the history of poetry i didn’t want to imply it was breathed into being by white folk
This is Black History Month in America ( other countries around the world, including Canada and the United Kingdom, also devote a month to celebrating Black history but I'm unsure what month it falls under ). This is a PERFECT time to highlight the poetry of blacks in addition to other minorities.
I love that you've taken this to include all minorities; I love it more that white people are contributing in support.
I'll be happy to host a month if you need me. Just let me know.
btw: I received the same messages from many of our black members during the Freedom threads, particularly the final one highlighting the BLM movements. They were hesitatant about participation for the same reasons they stated to you.
Shame, really.
i know about poetry’s history being much richer than the west’s portrayal.
fact is, fax is, this site typifies that western power imbalance whether we like to admit it or not. founded by the English, overtaken by Americans, and largely ignorant of what that means and the responsibility we have to ensure balance.
i love it here but I’ve seen too many examples of racism and ignorance and have personally spoken to black poets who are loath to get involved because the space is too white. that’s not their problem, it’s ours.
i appreciate your bringing up the history of poetry i didn’t want to imply it was breathed into being by white folk
This is Black History Month in America ( other countries around the world, including Canada and the United Kingdom, also devote a month to celebrating Black history but I'm unsure what month it falls under ). This is a PERFECT time to highlight the poetry of blacks in addition to other minorities.
I love that you've taken this to include all minorities; I love it more that white people are contributing in support.
I'll be happy to host a month if you need me. Just let me know.
btw: I received the same messages from many of our black members during the Freedom threads, particularly the final one highlighting the BLM movements. They were hesitatant about participation for the same reasons they stated to you.
Shame, really.
Ahavati said:
This is Black History Month in America ( other countries around the world, including Canada and the United Kingdom, also devote a month to celebrating Black history but I'm unsure what month it falls under ). This is a PERFECT time to highlight the poetry of blacks in addition to other minorities.
I love that you've taken this to include all minorities; I love it more that white people are contributing in support.
I'll be happy to host a month if you need me. Just let me know.
btw: I received the same messages from many of our black members during the Freedom threads, particularly the final one highlighting the BLM movements. They were hesitatant about participation for the same reasons they stated to you.
Shame, really.
i do get confused because i think the uk one is much later in the year - i actually didn’t know it was time for America to do that again. it does seem a shame to keep it to just one month. i guess what i wanted to do really is not to make any grand political statement, but definitely in response to some political statements- just save a seat. year long. so if you don’t feel like joining in one month, no worries, you have your place there lil name card and everything come sit down with us
This is Black History Month in America ( other countries around the world, including Canada and the United Kingdom, also devote a month to celebrating Black history but I'm unsure what month it falls under ). This is a PERFECT time to highlight the poetry of blacks in addition to other minorities.
I love that you've taken this to include all minorities; I love it more that white people are contributing in support.
I'll be happy to host a month if you need me. Just let me know.
btw: I received the same messages from many of our black members during the Freedom threads, particularly the final one highlighting the BLM movements. They were hesitatant about participation for the same reasons they stated to you.
Shame, really.
i do get confused because i think the uk one is much later in the year - i actually didn’t know it was time for America to do that again. it does seem a shame to keep it to just one month. i guess what i wanted to do really is not to make any grand political statement, but definitely in response to some political statements- just save a seat. year long. so if you don’t feel like joining in one month, no worries, you have your place there lil name card and everything come sit down with us
anna_grin said:
i do get confused because i think the uk one is much later in the year - i actually didn’t know it was time for America to do that again. it does seem a shame to keep it to just one month. i guess what i wanted to do really is not to make any grand political statement, but definitely in response to some political statements- just save a seat. year long. so if you don’t feel like joining in one month, no worries, you have your place there lil name card and everything come sit down with us
I don't think it's keeping it within a month so much as taking a month to highlight their history and accomplishements, a much needed thing in our education systems. It's obvious America is stepping in the right direction in regards to racism, et al.
I mean seriously, this was unheard of when I was in school. The proclamation wasn't passed until 1976 - two years before I gratudated highschool. I remember it being implemented by my history teacher in my senior year. Not without, I am sad to say, opposition. . .
I am happy it survived and has persevered throughout the years. I don't think you can skip around the political aspect, as their entire existence here in the west has been all but political and a fight for freedom, to vote, et al. They're still fighting white supremacy in many ways that should be obvious to the world now.
Not to say I am advocating for a political comp in any way. I'm coming from my personal perspective and experience. Having been raised in England my entire elementary education sans one year, racism was very prevalent there as well. I was the only girl on the base who was allowed to babysit for an interracial couple.
Native Heritage month is in November; but that is a different story. xo
i do get confused because i think the uk one is much later in the year - i actually didn’t know it was time for America to do that again. it does seem a shame to keep it to just one month. i guess what i wanted to do really is not to make any grand political statement, but definitely in response to some political statements- just save a seat. year long. so if you don’t feel like joining in one month, no worries, you have your place there lil name card and everything come sit down with us
I don't think it's keeping it within a month so much as taking a month to highlight their history and accomplishements, a much needed thing in our education systems. It's obvious America is stepping in the right direction in regards to racism, et al.
I mean seriously, this was unheard of when I was in school. The proclamation wasn't passed until 1976 - two years before I gratudated highschool. I remember it being implemented by my history teacher in my senior year. Not without, I am sad to say, opposition. . .
I am happy it survived and has persevered throughout the years. I don't think you can skip around the political aspect, as their entire existence here in the west has been all but political and a fight for freedom, to vote, et al. They're still fighting white supremacy in many ways that should be obvious to the world now.
Not to say I am advocating for a political comp in any way. I'm coming from my personal perspective and experience. Having been raised in England my entire elementary education sans one year, racism was very prevalent there as well. I was the only girl on the base who was allowed to babysit for an interracial couple.
Native Heritage month is in November; but that is a different story. xo
Ahavati said:
I don't think it's keeping it within a month so much as taking a month to highlight their history and accomplishements, a much needed thing in our education systems. It's obvious America is stepping in the right direction in regards to racism, et al.
I mean seriously, this was unheard of when I was in school. The proclamation wasn't passed until 1976 - two years before I gratudated highschool. I remember it being implemented by my history teacher in my senior year. Not without, I am sad to say, opposition. . .
I am happy it survived and has persevered throughout the years. I don't think you can skip around the political aspect, as their entire existence here in the west has been all but political and a fight for freedom, to vote, et al. They're still fighting white supremacy in many ways that should be obvious to the world now.
Not to say I am advocating for a political comp in any way. I'm coming from my personal perspective and experience. Having been raised in England my entire elementary education sans one year, racism was very prevalent there as well. I was the only girl on the base who was allowed to babysit for an interracial couple.
Native Heritage month is in November; but that is a different story. xo
igy igy and believe you me the uk likes to believe we’re not racist like america... which is only true in the same way we’re not like america in general... we’re smarter. sorry but it’s the truth. our racism is far more clever sometimes than even the people who think it or say it or use it.
it’s like what you hear about cancer- either you or someone you know has been affected by it you just might not know it. and every single person i know has on more than one occasion either done some racist shit or let some racist shit slide.
in custody one time an officer had an all lives matter badge on his little lanyard shit and i was pretty salty with him about it, next thing i know im all tranquilised and can’t say a thing. can’t say for definitely but it could have not been coincidence and imagine if they felt comfortable doing that to me white what they might have done if I was black
I don't think it's keeping it within a month so much as taking a month to highlight their history and accomplishements, a much needed thing in our education systems. It's obvious America is stepping in the right direction in regards to racism, et al.
I mean seriously, this was unheard of when I was in school. The proclamation wasn't passed until 1976 - two years before I gratudated highschool. I remember it being implemented by my history teacher in my senior year. Not without, I am sad to say, opposition. . .
I am happy it survived and has persevered throughout the years. I don't think you can skip around the political aspect, as their entire existence here in the west has been all but political and a fight for freedom, to vote, et al. They're still fighting white supremacy in many ways that should be obvious to the world now.
Not to say I am advocating for a political comp in any way. I'm coming from my personal perspective and experience. Having been raised in England my entire elementary education sans one year, racism was very prevalent there as well. I was the only girl on the base who was allowed to babysit for an interracial couple.
Native Heritage month is in November; but that is a different story. xo
igy igy and believe you me the uk likes to believe we’re not racist like america... which is only true in the same way we’re not like america in general... we’re smarter. sorry but it’s the truth. our racism is far more clever sometimes than even the people who think it or say it or use it.
it’s like what you hear about cancer- either you or someone you know has been affected by it you just might not know it. and every single person i know has on more than one occasion either done some racist shit or let some racist shit slide.
in custody one time an officer had an all lives matter badge on his little lanyard shit and i was pretty salty with him about it, next thing i know im all tranquilised and can’t say a thing. can’t say for definitely but it could have not been coincidence and imagine if they felt comfortable doing that to me white what they might have done if I was black
Eerie said:One of my closest friends (brother) tried to talk me into writing a piece for your comp, but I sort of sat in the same camp with Tallen. Plus, even as an adult I don't really identify with any of my ethnicity, which has been a sore spot and a struggle for me all of my life. It's difficult to feel you have no real group, traditions, or culture.
I think the idea you're proposing is really fantastic. I can't see it as being anything other than positive :)
yeah i can see that, race is not just about skin colour or how you look to other people it’s about your family and identity and history . and especially for people who are the product of a melting pot i can see it’s difficult.
i mean i would say personally it’s your choice at this point if you want to identify as minority your voice wouldn’t be unwelcome by any means
on the other hand you could choose to stay untethered which i guess is the gift of white - passing
i read an article by a light skinned black woman recently about all the little racist things white people say to her thinking she’s one of us one of us and she has to decide in those moments to either speak up or not it was very interesting
I think the idea you're proposing is really fantastic. I can't see it as being anything other than positive :)
yeah i can see that, race is not just about skin colour or how you look to other people it’s about your family and identity and history . and especially for people who are the product of a melting pot i can see it’s difficult.
i mean i would say personally it’s your choice at this point if you want to identify as minority your voice wouldn’t be unwelcome by any means
on the other hand you could choose to stay untethered which i guess is the gift of white - passing
i read an article by a light skinned black woman recently about all the little racist things white people say to her thinking she’s one of us one of us and she has to decide in those moments to either speak up or not it was very interesting
anna_grin said:
igy igy and believe you me the uk likes to believe we’re not racist like america... which is only true in the same way we’re not like america in general... we’re smarter. sorry but it’s the truth. our racism is far more clever sometimes than even the people who think it or say it or use it.
As far as racism goes, I agree with what you're saying. While here there are a lot of back-door politics, for the most part racism is in your face with groups like "The 'Proud Boys' ( whom Cananda has declared a terrorist organization, btw )", "QAnon", "The 'Oath Keepers' ", and of course the tried'n true "KKK", and so forth, and so on. . .
In regards to intelligence, we're how many centuries younger than you guys? And, yet, there was this war called The American Revolution where someone surrendered to the other? But I digress!
We have a long way to go, but hopefully we're headed in the right direction.
it’s like what you hear about cancer- either you or someone you know has been affected by it you just might not know it. and every single person i know has on more than one occasion either done some racist shit or let some racist shit slide.
in custody one time an officer had an all lives matter badge on his little lanyard shit and i was pretty salty with him about it, next thing i know im all tranquilised and can’t say a thing. can’t say for definitely but it could have not been coincidence and imagine if they felt comfortable doing that to me white what they might have done if I was black
I am guilty as fuck of letting shit go myself. When your first experience is getting the shit beaten out of you for interacting with black children on the playground during recess of the first grade. . .by whites. . .that kinda scars you until you find your way to empowerment.
Which I eventually found. Now it's fuck you, and you. . .oh, and you, over there. . .fuck you too.
igy igy and believe you me the uk likes to believe we’re not racist like america... which is only true in the same way we’re not like america in general... we’re smarter. sorry but it’s the truth. our racism is far more clever sometimes than even the people who think it or say it or use it.
As far as racism goes, I agree with what you're saying. While here there are a lot of back-door politics, for the most part racism is in your face with groups like "The 'Proud Boys' ( whom Cananda has declared a terrorist organization, btw )", "QAnon", "The 'Oath Keepers' ", and of course the tried'n true "KKK", and so forth, and so on. . .
In regards to intelligence, we're how many centuries younger than you guys? And, yet, there was this war called The American Revolution where someone surrendered to the other? But I digress!
We have a long way to go, but hopefully we're headed in the right direction.
it’s like what you hear about cancer- either you or someone you know has been affected by it you just might not know it. and every single person i know has on more than one occasion either done some racist shit or let some racist shit slide.
in custody one time an officer had an all lives matter badge on his little lanyard shit and i was pretty salty with him about it, next thing i know im all tranquilised and can’t say a thing. can’t say for definitely but it could have not been coincidence and imagine if they felt comfortable doing that to me white what they might have done if I was black
I am guilty as fuck of letting shit go myself. When your first experience is getting the shit beaten out of you for interacting with black children on the playground during recess of the first grade. . .by whites. . .that kinda scars you until you find your way to empowerment.
Which I eventually found. Now it's fuck you, and you. . .oh, and you, over there. . .fuck you too.
Anonymous
Ahavati said:
We have a long way to go, but hopefully we're headed in the right direction.
I just watched an interview with a retired pro football player who is struggling to have his medical bills paid by insurance because despite concussions being taken more seriously in the NFL these last few years, Black People are being scored differently in the testing. Essentially, if you are Black, you have to exhibit more signs of brain damage than a White player in order for your health to be taken seriously. And this is all actually based on scientific findings exploited for the sake of saving a few bucks in a bazillion dollar earning business.
Unfuckingbelievable.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled half-time show and a bunch of $500K 30-second commercial slots.
We have a long way to go, but hopefully we're headed in the right direction.
I just watched an interview with a retired pro football player who is struggling to have his medical bills paid by insurance because despite concussions being taken more seriously in the NFL these last few years, Black People are being scored differently in the testing. Essentially, if you are Black, you have to exhibit more signs of brain damage than a White player in order for your health to be taken seriously. And this is all actually based on scientific findings exploited for the sake of saving a few bucks in a bazillion dollar earning business.
Unfuckingbelievable.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled half-time show and a bunch of $500K 30-second commercial slots.
I voted 'nie' on basis of equality, and it brought it to a 6:6 tie at time of writing. (Surely the opposite of 'aye' is 'nay'?)
I am not against giving a voice to minority or marginalised groups, but a recurring BAME competition just seems misappropriate to me.
On DU and the internet in general, is there an established majority that necessarily conforms to a certain type? I was under the impression that the internet was mostly democratic: people clump together because of similar thought and passions, rather than purely race-related lines. And yes, there are certain areas where pro-this or anti-that clump together to spew hatred and fester, but mostly the internet seems to be just a chaotic mix. - Where anyone of any background can join in, and where any and all are capable of bad and good traits: anyone can be a troll.
I don't quite understand or follow the purpose, but more than happy to hear more and get to know the reason. - Just not following the line-of-thought here!
I am not against giving a voice to minority or marginalised groups, but a recurring BAME competition just seems misappropriate to me.
On DU and the internet in general, is there an established majority that necessarily conforms to a certain type? I was under the impression that the internet was mostly democratic: people clump together because of similar thought and passions, rather than purely race-related lines. And yes, there are certain areas where pro-this or anti-that clump together to spew hatred and fester, but mostly the internet seems to be just a chaotic mix. - Where anyone of any background can join in, and where any and all are capable of bad and good traits: anyone can be a troll.
I don't quite understand or follow the purpose, but more than happy to hear more and get to know the reason. - Just not following the line-of-thought here!
right, okay. you must be on some other internet. because the internet i find myself on allowed and supported a woman pretending to be black as a cover for her racist and divisive views. 🤷🏻♀️ she seems to be gone now... from here.
if we can have a reoccurring women’s classics and men’s classics competition, if we can have that dedicated space, i literally don’t understand the antipathy towards a space to showcase black / minority poets. considering the under representation there is in published poetry.
see previous as per my last email yada yada i don’t think anyone is fucking listening and i am honestly about to give up, so yous can all pat yourself on the back for being such an awesome community that you don’t have any racism i mean if no one is talking about it it can’t be fucking there can it i mean people would surely talk about it
fuck me i can’t be bothered to find more articles more information more reasons more examples
if yous don’t want it, you don’t want it, but why? what harm does it do to you? how does it hurt your equality? cos to me it fucking doesn’t.
im a little sorry for my argumentative tone but i am so tired
if we can have a reoccurring women’s classics and men’s classics competition, if we can have that dedicated space, i literally don’t understand the antipathy towards a space to showcase black / minority poets. considering the under representation there is in published poetry.
see previous as per my last email yada yada i don’t think anyone is fucking listening and i am honestly about to give up, so yous can all pat yourself on the back for being such an awesome community that you don’t have any racism i mean if no one is talking about it it can’t be fucking there can it i mean people would surely talk about it
fuck me i can’t be bothered to find more articles more information more reasons more examples
if yous don’t want it, you don’t want it, but why? what harm does it do to you? how does it hurt your equality? cos to me it fucking doesn’t.
im a little sorry for my argumentative tone but i am so tired
I am not speaking for anna; I am speaking for myself. But, Viddax, just as your own country celebrates Black History Month ( since 1987, following the U.S.A.'s 1978 recognition of such. . . ), and thus highlights the contributions Africa and African peoples make to the economic, social and political landscape of London and the wider UK [ as it does in the U.S.A. ], I simply see no harm in providing a platform that does the same with poetry, and furthemore extends it to all minorities, such as Asian, Hispanic, Latino, Native American, even Mulatto; ESPECIALLY Mulatto as they come from two worlds, and am sure had unique experiences and knowledge of such experiences that we, as whites ( though I can legally claim Native American and fully resonate with that heritage ), could never personally understand regardless of experiencing cultural biased, i.e. — "Yankee go home", etc.
I further see no harm in that platform being a competition. Based on messages both anna and I have received from the minority members of this board in regards to hesitance of participation, one would seem fairly warranted.
Why does it bother certain white people so much to provide minority members of society, even of internet forums, a platform to shine? Could or would such a platform further divide us? I advocate for the opposite by saying it would unite us.
Why is it "All Lives Matter" only when white people feel excluded?
I further see no harm in that platform being a competition. Based on messages both anna and I have received from the minority members of this board in regards to hesitance of participation, one would seem fairly warranted.
Why does it bother certain white people so much to provide minority members of society, even of internet forums, a platform to shine? Could or would such a platform further divide us? I advocate for the opposite by saying it would unite us.
Why is it "All Lives Matter" only when white people feel excluded?
anna_grin said:
[ . . . ]
if we can have a reoccurring women’s classics and men’s classics competition, if we can have that dedicated space, i literally don’t understand the antipathy towards a space to showcase black / minority poets. considering the under representation there is in published poetry.
[ . . . ]
I agree with everything that you've stated; I just feel I need to extrapolate on the above. If you are referring to the monthly Classic Competitions, we feature a male and female classic or modern poet regardless of race, color, et al. We've featured Black, Asian, White, Indian, and many other nationalities in these monthly comps.
The ONLY time we separate into male/female is for the Championship held the first month ( namely January ) after the previous year to determine a King/Queen of the Classics ( regardless of race or nationality ).
[ . . . ]
if we can have a reoccurring women’s classics and men’s classics competition, if we can have that dedicated space, i literally don’t understand the antipathy towards a space to showcase black / minority poets. considering the under representation there is in published poetry.
[ . . . ]
I agree with everything that you've stated; I just feel I need to extrapolate on the above. If you are referring to the monthly Classic Competitions, we feature a male and female classic or modern poet regardless of race, color, et al. We've featured Black, Asian, White, Indian, and many other nationalities in these monthly comps.
The ONLY time we separate into male/female is for the Championship held the first month ( namely January ) after the previous year to determine a King/Queen of the Classics ( regardless of race or nationality ).
Anonymous
Viddax said:I voted 'nie' on basis of equality, and it brought it to a 6:6 tie at time of writing. (Surely the opposite of 'aye' is 'nay'?)
I am not against giving a voice to minority or marginalised groups, but a recurring BAME competition just seems misappropriate to me.
On DU and the internet in general, is there an established majority that necessarily conforms to a certain type? I was under the impression that the internet was mostly democratic: people clump together because of similar thought and passions, rather than purely race-related lines. And yes, there are certain areas where pro-this or anti-that clump together to spew hatred and fester, but mostly the internet seems to be just a chaotic mix. - Where anyone of any background can join in, and where any and all are capable of bad and good traits: anyone can be a troll.
I don't quite understand or follow the purpose, but more than happy to hear more and get to know the reason. - Just not following the line-of-thought here!
It educates us savage White folks in a world where such knowledge has been systematically suppressed to erased, not just from history books, but from the face of the Earth as well.
I am not against giving a voice to minority or marginalised groups, but a recurring BAME competition just seems misappropriate to me.
On DU and the internet in general, is there an established majority that necessarily conforms to a certain type? I was under the impression that the internet was mostly democratic: people clump together because of similar thought and passions, rather than purely race-related lines. And yes, there are certain areas where pro-this or anti-that clump together to spew hatred and fester, but mostly the internet seems to be just a chaotic mix. - Where anyone of any background can join in, and where any and all are capable of bad and good traits: anyone can be a troll.
I don't quite understand or follow the purpose, but more than happy to hear more and get to know the reason. - Just not following the line-of-thought here!
It educates us savage White folks in a world where such knowledge has been systematically suppressed to erased, not just from history books, but from the face of the Earth as well.
Ahavati said:
I agree with everything that you've stated; I just feel I need to extrapolate on the above. If you are referring to the monthly Classic Competitions, we feature a male and female classic or modern poet regardless of race, color, et al. We've featured Black, Asian, White, Indian, and many other nationalities in these monthly comps.
The ONLY time we separate into male/female is for the Championship held the first month ( namely January ) after the previous year to determine a King/Queen of the Classics ( regardless of race or nationality ).
i might have misunderstood that then tbh sorry bout that
and im just getting pissed that all i seem to be achieving here is uncovering casual racism / plain ignorance
I agree with everything that you've stated; I just feel I need to extrapolate on the above. If you are referring to the monthly Classic Competitions, we feature a male and female classic or modern poet regardless of race, color, et al. We've featured Black, Asian, White, Indian, and many other nationalities in these monthly comps.
The ONLY time we separate into male/female is for the Championship held the first month ( namely January ) after the previous year to determine a King/Queen of the Classics ( regardless of race or nationality ).
i might have misunderstood that then tbh sorry bout that
and im just getting pissed that all i seem to be achieving here is uncovering casual racism / plain ignorance
im gonna take a step back from responding here , because the only opinions that really matter are the ones we haven’t heard enough of. which im sure says something. what it says, we don’t know, do we, and we can’t assume it means everything is hunky dory.
i mean, call me out if you think I’m being offensive. but if you think giving over a teeny tiny slice of Internet forum to black and minority poets is damaging to equality across the board im not interested in listening
i mean, call me out if you think I’m being offensive. but if you think giving over a teeny tiny slice of Internet forum to black and minority poets is damaging to equality across the board im not interested in listening
