deepundergroundpoetry.com
Anything Goes?
I’ve seen that there
are here a number of
composers who
are wont to claim
there are no literary rules
that must be followed when
inditing what
they oft assert
is without question
poetry.
I wonder then
how they are sure
that what they write
is never prose.
are here a number of
composers who
are wont to claim
there are no literary rules
that must be followed when
inditing what
they oft assert
is without question
poetry.
I wonder then
how they are sure
that what they write
is never prose.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Re. Anything Goes?
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
"In this day and age strictly abiding to literary rules
is not how poetry is written anymore"
Written by whom?
.
"Anything can be passed off as poetry"
Anything can be **claimed** to be poetry. But how does one recognize a writing that is not in any way distinct in form, style, or literary conventions from the things that characterize prose as poetry? You do recognize that a writing that is claimed to be poetry has to be different from one that is recognizably prose, yes?.
is not how poetry is written anymore"
Written by whom?
.
"Anything can be passed off as poetry"
Anything can be **claimed** to be poetry. But how does one recognize a writing that is not in any way distinct in form, style, or literary conventions from the things that characterize prose as poetry? You do recognize that a writing that is claimed to be poetry has to be different from one that is recognizably prose, yes?.
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
14th Aug 2024 1:01pm
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
14th Aug 2024 1:08pm
I misunderstood what you wrote and therefore did not like how I responded.Your
take on poetry & prose was very creative.
take on poetry & prose was very creative.
0
Re. Anything Goes?
14th Aug 2024 1:18pm
Before the internet was still a baby and pre the coming of the beats, "poets" and prosers grappled with this very question, my dear Baldwin.
I note that poetic lines have become ever more blurred, probably in proportion to our increased desires to express our feelings in public which some like me, call the "Look at poor me syndrome"
They post their "poetry" with scant regard for craft, grammar, spelling and blindly ignore all conventional rules, even the use of rhyme and metre are an alien concept.
Therefore, you may be certain of one thing, the distinction you refer to would never occur to these barbarians of the art.
Alas, these scribblers are now the majority. No longer does the word poet refer to a small elite group who have something meaningful to say and understand how it should be painstakingly written.
But thank heavens the dinosaurs are no more.
In today's world anyone can write anything and call it poetry, whether it is or not, has always been for the reader to decide by standards of their own choosing. A final thought (for which I thank you)... The hardest chains to break are those of our own making!
I note that poetic lines have become ever more blurred, probably in proportion to our increased desires to express our feelings in public which some like me, call the "Look at poor me syndrome"
They post their "poetry" with scant regard for craft, grammar, spelling and blindly ignore all conventional rules, even the use of rhyme and metre are an alien concept.
Therefore, you may be certain of one thing, the distinction you refer to would never occur to these barbarians of the art.
Alas, these scribblers are now the majority. No longer does the word poet refer to a small elite group who have something meaningful to say and understand how it should be painstakingly written.
But thank heavens the dinosaurs are no more.
In today's world anyone can write anything and call it poetry, whether it is or not, has always been for the reader to decide by standards of their own choosing. A final thought (for which I thank you)... The hardest chains to break are those of our own making!
1
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
"They post their "poetry" with scant regard for craft, grammar, spelling and blindly ignore all conventional rules, even the use of rhyme and metre are an alien concept."
Indeed. But what I have been seeing in a lot of the pieces posted in the "welcome" forum is adherence to the false idea that to write poetry one must straitjacket what one writes in rhyme. And that if you produce lines that rhyme with one another, then your submission is a poem, not to mention an effective and enchanting one that makes people see with their eyes shut.
Indeed. But what I have been seeing in a lot of the pieces posted in the "welcome" forum is adherence to the false idea that to write poetry one must straitjacket what one writes in rhyme. And that if you produce lines that rhyme with one another, then your submission is a poem, not to mention an effective and enchanting one that makes people see with their eyes shut.
Re. Anything Goes?
10th Sep 2024 2:57pm
Wow, I'm probably one of the people you're referring to.
I'm bad with grammar and I basically only rhyme.
I'm not arguing against standards but with the amount of absolutely arbitrary forms, it's going to eat its tail at some point.
I like the freedom of just writing something I feel if I have to have a set amount of syllables or lines I'm boxed in.
In saying that challenging oneself is not at all a bad thing.
I'm bad with grammar and I basically only rhyme.
I'm not arguing against standards but with the amount of absolutely arbitrary forms, it's going to eat its tail at some point.
I like the freedom of just writing something I feel if I have to have a set amount of syllables or lines I'm boxed in.
In saying that challenging oneself is not at all a bad thing.
1
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
It's a bit of a mix.
I write for catharsis and if I feel like saying something I believe is important.
I write for catharsis and if I feel like saying something I believe is important.
0
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
But not for a reading audience? And important to whom?
And as JB states there
https://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?9910-Five-Beginners-Blunders&s=
The fourth beginner's blunder is confusing the importance of the subject and the quality of the poem. Subjects like third-world starvation, spousal abuse and divine grace trigger an immediate reaction for most readers, but it's a reaction to the subject, not the poem. As a result, some beginning authors react to criticism as if it was an attack on the importance of the subject. The simple fact is that most poems on these subjects are little more than preaching to the already converted. The quality of the writing is often terrible. If you want to write about important subjects, make sure your poem is worthy of them.
And as JB states there
https://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?9910-Five-Beginners-Blunders&s=
The fourth beginner's blunder is confusing the importance of the subject and the quality of the poem. Subjects like third-world starvation, spousal abuse and divine grace trigger an immediate reaction for most readers, but it's a reaction to the subject, not the poem. As a result, some beginning authors react to criticism as if it was an attack on the importance of the subject. The simple fact is that most poems on these subjects are little more than preaching to the already converted. The quality of the writing is often terrible. If you want to write about important subjects, make sure your poem is worthy of them.
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
That's subjective, I like language I like playing with words. I try to say things in a way I haven't heard, if people are intrigued they'll read it.
Again subjective, I may write a poem for someone I love. I feel it's important they know that. I may address the zeitgeist in some instances and my observations or feelings on matters. If it resonates or makes someone think that suggests validity, in my mind.
It's entirely subjective, take the banana taped to a wall for example it was done in jest as a mockery to the standards in gallery's at the time (iirc, but the point will still stand).
Some saw it as stupid, others agreed that held more meaning than a canvas painted purely red or green.
I personally don't see why Dr Seuss is so great.
Again subjective, I may write a poem for someone I love. I feel it's important they know that. I may address the zeitgeist in some instances and my observations or feelings on matters. If it resonates or makes someone think that suggests validity, in my mind.
It's entirely subjective, take the banana taped to a wall for example it was done in jest as a mockery to the standards in gallery's at the time (iirc, but the point will still stand).
Some saw it as stupid, others agreed that held more meaning than a canvas painted purely red or green.
I personally don't see why Dr Seuss is so great.
0
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
10th Sep 2024 10:33pm
And hundreds of people liked Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. That's hardly good evidence that it possessed any artistic quality.
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
13th Sep 2024 5:31pm
"I'm not arguing against standards but with the amount of absolutely arbitrary forms, it's going to eat its tail at some point."
Would you please name the particular forms of poetry that are arbitrary, let alone absolutely so?
Would you please name the particular forms of poetry that are arbitrary, let alone absolutely so?
Re. Anything Goes?
11th Sep 2024 00:16am
I'm not disputing your poem, I do understand you can't just throw a slight idiosyncrasy into some sentences and have it be a poem.
I see that both your poem and presentation serve a purpose.
Technically though, if something rhymes it's a poem.
Anything after that is moot.
I see that both your poem and presentation serve a purpose.
Technically though, if something rhymes it's a poem.
Anything after that is moot.
0
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
"I'm not disputing your poem"
Did you mean to say "I'm not disputing the truth of what you say in your poem,"?T
I have no idea what "disputing a poem" means.
"Technically though, if something rhymes it's a poem."
I see. So this:
I, my lyre, strummed
the shit was scrumed
is a poem?
More importantly, is it a good poem? Does it make a reader see with his or her eyes shut?
Did you mean to say "I'm not disputing the truth of what you say in your poem,"?T
I have no idea what "disputing a poem" means.
"Technically though, if something rhymes it's a poem."
I see. So this:
I, my lyre, strummed
the shit was scrumed
is a poem?
More importantly, is it a good poem? Does it make a reader see with his or her eyes shut?
Re. Anything Goes?
12th Sep 2024 5:36pm
Yep, that's a poem.
It's an expressive medium you can't "straitjacket" it.
It's an expressive medium you can't "straitjacket" it.
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Re: Re. Anything Goes?
12th Sep 2024 10:14pm
But is it a good poem? And what does it express? BTW prose is also an expressive medium.
So how do you tell if a writing is not prose if there are no boundaries that a writing has to adhere to in order for it not to be prose?
So how do you tell if a writing is not prose if there are no boundaries that a writing has to adhere to in order for it not to be prose?
Re. Anything Goes?
13th Sep 2024 11:43am
It doesn't have to be "good" besides, that comes down personal taste.
Plus no one is the arbiter of what people get to write.
I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, my "eating it's tail" comment doesn't adhere to this discussion in relation to prose.
I was only really talking about the rhyme part.
If what you're seeing doesn't fit as poetry perhaps give them pointers, help them to grow instead of doing whatever this is.
Plus no one is the arbiter of what people get to write.
I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, my "eating it's tail" comment doesn't adhere to this discussion in relation to prose.
I was only really talking about the rhyme part.
If what you're seeing doesn't fit as poetry perhaps give them pointers, help them to grow instead of doing whatever this is.
0
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
13th Sep 2024 1:03pm
Thank you for dodging my specific question on how anyone, including you, could legitimately claim that a given writing asserted to be poetry is not prose if there are no boundaries that a writing has to adhere to in order for it not to be prose?
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
13th Sep 2024 4:33pm
"Plus no one is the arbiter of what people get to write."
Where did I claim that people do not have the right to write?
.
Where did I claim that people do not have the right to write?
.
Re: Re. Anything Goes?
"If what you're seeing doesn't fit as poetry perhaps give them pointers, help them to grow instead of doing whatever this is."
Your syntax, wording, and punctuation are clumsy here. Did you mean to say, "If what you're seeing isn't poetry, perhaps the best thing for you to do is to give the authors of what you see pointers on how to write poetry that will help them to grow as poets instead of doing whatever this is."? If so, you, have not come close to saying it.
Your syntax, wording, and punctuation are clumsy here. Did you mean to say, "If what you're seeing isn't poetry, perhaps the best thing for you to do is to give the authors of what you see pointers on how to write poetry that will help them to grow as poets instead of doing whatever this is."? If so, you, have not come close to saying it.
Re. Anything Goes?
14th Sep 2024 10:57am