deepundergroundpoetry.com
Plea
honest critique can be an oxymoron
it's sometimes an excuse used by the egotistical
to be as harsh as they want, sparing no feelings
bearing no responsibility when destroying writers
these consider themselves as the elite but not so
the do not care who they hurt or how they hurt them
they point the finger and laugh at writers they see as peasants
they find their peers wanting in all areas because they have to
in their lust for power over others, they will stop at nothing
there is not a place they won't go in fact the lower the better
they assassinate, they gossip, they prime others to think their thoughts
these people are the poisoners of many wells and always aim personally
they collect "friends" as a hobby, but what happens if you dare question
firstly there is the lambasting, secondly the abuse, lastly the harassment
hate-filled narcissists by their very nature are incapable of any critique
that doesn't involve the destruction of the poet unless of course they
are part of this sycophantic clique, who bow and scrape to their masters
all forms of writing have these people around - they are called critics
but there is a better way
treat all writers in a community as equals
when critiques are requested, gently does it
firstly use encouragement and be empathetic
concentrate on the positive things of the piece
make respectful suggestions on possible changes
always deliver critique with a kind and humble heart
listen, really listen as the poet might know something
you don't that is true of any poet despite education
never discourage, give poets the best of your knowledge
be humble enough to accept the poet's right to choose
on any suggestion you make It must be their vioce,
words and their intent is paramount above all things
this is the way critique should be in a public forum
so-called honest critiques should be done in private
there are new or nervous people able to view them
some will leave as a result, some won't ever post
this is an avoidable loss and should be a source of
sadness and guilt for all members baring grudges
these fight and flames are seen in public sadly
maybe we shouldn't pick fights, maybe we shouldn't retaliate
maybe we should resolve our differences or just keep away
maybe we shouldn't target people regardless of history
I write this as a plea
to reinstall peace to the site
to not seek to inflame
to only do what is positive for the site
to promote DU and what it could be
to think before typing "would this hurt someone" then desist
this is an ideal world scenario but why not try
aiming for perfection will always make you better
Now before people go jumping up and down
I am making this plea to myself as a flawed human being
somewhat broken but willing to try (are you?)
I plead guilty to sometimes being short with others
I plead guilty to sometimes being over reactionary
I plead guilty to sometimes of unguarded retaliation
I plead guilty to sometimes typing without thinking
I plead guilty to sometimes making my dislike of people obvious
I plead guilty to sometimes deliberately flaming
I plead guilty to sometimes writing veiled poems
I plead guilty to sometimes hurting peoples feelings
I am guilty as charged
for the second time, I offer an unreserved apology
to anyone I have hurt or offended, that means anyone
I am sure there are a few
this is my confession
this is my plea
a plea for it all to stop
it's sometimes an excuse used by the egotistical
to be as harsh as they want, sparing no feelings
bearing no responsibility when destroying writers
these consider themselves as the elite but not so
the do not care who they hurt or how they hurt them
they point the finger and laugh at writers they see as peasants
they find their peers wanting in all areas because they have to
in their lust for power over others, they will stop at nothing
there is not a place they won't go in fact the lower the better
they assassinate, they gossip, they prime others to think their thoughts
these people are the poisoners of many wells and always aim personally
they collect "friends" as a hobby, but what happens if you dare question
firstly there is the lambasting, secondly the abuse, lastly the harassment
hate-filled narcissists by their very nature are incapable of any critique
that doesn't involve the destruction of the poet unless of course they
are part of this sycophantic clique, who bow and scrape to their masters
all forms of writing have these people around - they are called critics
but there is a better way
treat all writers in a community as equals
when critiques are requested, gently does it
firstly use encouragement and be empathetic
concentrate on the positive things of the piece
make respectful suggestions on possible changes
always deliver critique with a kind and humble heart
listen, really listen as the poet might know something
you don't that is true of any poet despite education
never discourage, give poets the best of your knowledge
be humble enough to accept the poet's right to choose
on any suggestion you make It must be their vioce,
words and their intent is paramount above all things
this is the way critique should be in a public forum
so-called honest critiques should be done in private
there are new or nervous people able to view them
some will leave as a result, some won't ever post
this is an avoidable loss and should be a source of
sadness and guilt for all members baring grudges
these fight and flames are seen in public sadly
maybe we shouldn't pick fights, maybe we shouldn't retaliate
maybe we should resolve our differences or just keep away
maybe we shouldn't target people regardless of history
I write this as a plea
to reinstall peace to the site
to not seek to inflame
to only do what is positive for the site
to promote DU and what it could be
to think before typing "would this hurt someone" then desist
this is an ideal world scenario but why not try
aiming for perfection will always make you better
Now before people go jumping up and down
I am making this plea to myself as a flawed human being
somewhat broken but willing to try (are you?)
I plead guilty to sometimes being short with others
I plead guilty to sometimes being over reactionary
I plead guilty to sometimes of unguarded retaliation
I plead guilty to sometimes typing without thinking
I plead guilty to sometimes making my dislike of people obvious
I plead guilty to sometimes deliberately flaming
I plead guilty to sometimes writing veiled poems
I plead guilty to sometimes hurting peoples feelings
I am guilty as charged
for the second time, I offer an unreserved apology
to anyone I have hurt or offended, that means anyone
I am sure there are a few
this is my confession
this is my plea
a plea for it all to stop
Published 22nd Sep 2019
Author's Note
for the good of the site, there should be a halt on hostilities, there is nothing positive to be gained by a continuation in public view. for me, from now on it is just block and report nothing more. That's the advice I would give to anyone involved, in fact, it the advice I would give to everyone. I will now only positively work for the good of the site (DU) anything else is bullshit
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
likes 9
reading list entries 5
comments 12
reads 893
Commenting Preference:
The author encourages honest critique.
22nd Sep 2019 5:10pm
Big Kiss, David.
I will hold you to this, and anyone else who cares to join us, and in return I will expect you and them to treat me likewise.
It is what this site is in dire need of due to public exchanges between a number of different poets involved in different squabbles. Adhering to these simple rules of etiquette makes the entire experience of being here more enjoyable for all.
I will hold you to this, and anyone else who cares to join us, and in return I will expect you and them to treat me likewise.
It is what this site is in dire need of due to public exchanges between a number of different poets involved in different squabbles. Adhering to these simple rules of etiquette makes the entire experience of being here more enjoyable for all.
24th Sep 2019 3:28am
My word is my bond. The last squabble fixed my mind on this poem and this course of action which is a purely positive one
It appears the plea has been ignored - so be it
thank you for your wise words :-)))))))))))))))))))))))
It appears the plea has been ignored - so be it
thank you for your wise words :-)))))))))))))))))))))))
22nd Sep 2019 5:53pm
You have an amazing heart. Only the heart blind would be unaffected by it, but there are creatures with gears and wheels where a heart should be, my friend. Seems like every year a hurricane threatens to level the entire area. lol I'll be here to support you, as long as I am able.
Eckhart Tolle says, when we bring consciousness to our unconscious impulses and ingrained responses, we immediately create awareness or presence, which slowly but surely erodes the unconscious. Shedding light on darkness, communication such as this, is a good thing.
In resonant kindness,
Daniel
Eckhart Tolle says, when we bring consciousness to our unconscious impulses and ingrained responses, we immediately create awareness or presence, which slowly but surely erodes the unconscious. Shedding light on darkness, communication such as this, is a good thing.
In resonant kindness,
Daniel
24th Sep 2019 3:36am
I try to be just who I am and I hate having to restrict myself but for the good of DU, I will certainly do it. It's interesting these creatures accuse me of being a narcissist when I am the polar opposite (Empath) People have to look with better eyes.
it would be impossible for a narcissist to bear his soul and plead guilty to anything. I have now done this twice and had it spat back in my face. There will not be a third time
I will only read, write and critique as per the cafe critique ethos and will treat people the same
thank you muchly for these wise words
it would be impossible for a narcissist to bear his soul and plead guilty to anything. I have now done this twice and had it spat back in my face. There will not be a third time
I will only read, write and critique as per the cafe critique ethos and will treat people the same
thank you muchly for these wise words
22nd Sep 2019 8:23pm
Perhaps to new to have caught the whiff of gunpowder and grape shot in the air but not so innocent as to believe such well placed calls are sometimes needed...well said.
24th Sep 2019 3:38am
Thank you, Joe - this came straight from the heart. I meant every word and thats the man you will see in all future inputs on DU
I haven't logged on for days; truly not in the mood to write or read much. From the outside, that whole thread caught my eye. I'm a nobody here when it comes to being a "poet"... I willingly advertise I'm just here to write. DUP's welcome statement invites us to......
"meet other poets & writers".
It also says, "push boundaries & challenge ideas" (I love the latter part most)...
I consider this my home & many like family. I don't care much for the quality of Literotica and never felt welcome. I never stayed after entering a welcome thread to be torn to shreds. All other sites had no warmth or spirit that I found here. It would be so lovely if our family wasn't divided. After all, some of us here, aren't here to be established authors or perfectionists, we wish to write. I have seen some of the commentary in which, yes, these people asked for honesty, but it's came off a bit harsh, often lacking anything positive as far as content. I've also noticed an arrogance in the air in commentary, not towards the poet, but a certain negative vibe cast upon us that aren't pro's. I laugh it off because I like being quirky now that I'm finding my place of comfort. I didn't always do so, and it hindered me for awhile. I ask for honest critique, but the biggest critics don't come my way. I have a few that I respect that have noted my mistakes or suggestions, but it's been in a positive manner. I'm just here to write stuff with a little emotion behind it, something one can feel, if I do that then I have a happy heart.
I'm also one of those useless people with no true knowledge that's in the top critique arena at times. I admit, I read some stuff that I just can't put my stamp of approval on, I can not comment at all. I'm basically commenting on the content, the positive ways in which I've noticed improvement. Sometimes, I get hit with the "a poetess of your calibre" remark, and I openly say I'm a hot mess who's just slinging some words. That doesn't that mean I'm not practicing meter & flow behind the scenes though. Nor do I want anyone, often people better than me, thinking I'm any better than another here. I think we all show up to try & that doesn't mean I'm just blowing smoke up their ass for feel good's. In most regards, I find the people that never claim perfection to be better than those that claim it. I guess cliques are everywhere, but it's a shame there have to be on writing sites. I gave up on praising the higher up's that I env(ied) because I didn't meet their standards enough to recognize my humble voice when I did, nor did they give any effort towards my humble crumbs.
I also invited a friend here, who is a great poet. He asked for friendly commentary, but got a negative one & hasn't been here since. It's sad considering he needed this outlet to strengthen his confidence that I've been trying to build. I promised him family & cohesion...it failed.
You're a big guy to apologize. You truly have a big heart and gentle kindness that doesn't deserve to be bullied. I don't know all the politics here, but I do know you're not the only one bothered, even by those who are now gone. You were the only one in my corner trying to help, when WebMistress didn't give two shits about solving my character assassination. Although we share this "crip" bond, our hearts are cut from the same cloth.
......You get mad respect & big hugs from "Panda"
Geez, this is long...such pent up feelings I have. All are welcome to point out fubs in punctuation & whatever else I messed up while typing in a hurry...😄
"meet other poets & writers".
It also says, "push boundaries & challenge ideas" (I love the latter part most)...
I consider this my home & many like family. I don't care much for the quality of Literotica and never felt welcome. I never stayed after entering a welcome thread to be torn to shreds. All other sites had no warmth or spirit that I found here. It would be so lovely if our family wasn't divided. After all, some of us here, aren't here to be established authors or perfectionists, we wish to write. I have seen some of the commentary in which, yes, these people asked for honesty, but it's came off a bit harsh, often lacking anything positive as far as content. I've also noticed an arrogance in the air in commentary, not towards the poet, but a certain negative vibe cast upon us that aren't pro's. I laugh it off because I like being quirky now that I'm finding my place of comfort. I didn't always do so, and it hindered me for awhile. I ask for honest critique, but the biggest critics don't come my way. I have a few that I respect that have noted my mistakes or suggestions, but it's been in a positive manner. I'm just here to write stuff with a little emotion behind it, something one can feel, if I do that then I have a happy heart.
I'm also one of those useless people with no true knowledge that's in the top critique arena at times. I admit, I read some stuff that I just can't put my stamp of approval on, I can not comment at all. I'm basically commenting on the content, the positive ways in which I've noticed improvement. Sometimes, I get hit with the "a poetess of your calibre" remark, and I openly say I'm a hot mess who's just slinging some words. That doesn't that mean I'm not practicing meter & flow behind the scenes though. Nor do I want anyone, often people better than me, thinking I'm any better than another here. I think we all show up to try & that doesn't mean I'm just blowing smoke up their ass for feel good's. In most regards, I find the people that never claim perfection to be better than those that claim it. I guess cliques are everywhere, but it's a shame there have to be on writing sites. I gave up on praising the higher up's that I env(ied) because I didn't meet their standards enough to recognize my humble voice when I did, nor did they give any effort towards my humble crumbs.
I also invited a friend here, who is a great poet. He asked for friendly commentary, but got a negative one & hasn't been here since. It's sad considering he needed this outlet to strengthen his confidence that I've been trying to build. I promised him family & cohesion...it failed.
You're a big guy to apologize. You truly have a big heart and gentle kindness that doesn't deserve to be bullied. I don't know all the politics here, but I do know you're not the only one bothered, even by those who are now gone. You were the only one in my corner trying to help, when WebMistress didn't give two shits about solving my character assassination. Although we share this "crip" bond, our hearts are cut from the same cloth.
......You get mad respect & big hugs from "Panda"
Geez, this is long...such pent up feelings I have. All are welcome to point out fubs in punctuation & whatever else I messed up while typing in a hurry...😄
23rd Sep 2019 9:24am
Thank you David. I believe PandoraUnleashed quite brilliantly summed it up for those of us that have walked away or stayed and took it✌
29th Sep 2019 12:48pm
I have never experienced anything negative here in DUP - and certainly hope that I have never given any. But I know that such negativity exists, having experienced it elsewhere (some of it rather peculiar).
Poets, whether good or bad (whatever that even means) are humans, and their poems, whether good or bad (whatever that even means) are the outpour of the poet who has noticed or felt something, and had the impulse to share it on paper. All should be treated with gentle, nurturing care and respect.
This is honest and well written.
Poets, whether good or bad (whatever that even means) are humans, and their poems, whether good or bad (whatever that even means) are the outpour of the poet who has noticed or felt something, and had the impulse to share it on paper. All should be treated with gentle, nurturing care and respect.
This is honest and well written.
29th Sep 2019 3:26pm
learning to deal with such things has been difficult but I have finally realised the right path for me. As you say its all about meanings and definitions - if you look at the ethos section in cafe critique this is my definition of how critique should be given - thank you so much for your words of wisdom :-)))))))
29th Sep 2019 4:50pm
Good afternoon,
I read the ethos section in cafe critique, liked and agreed with it, and have subsequently joined said cafe :)
I read the ethos section in cafe critique, liked and agreed with it, and have subsequently joined said cafe :)
29th Sep 2019 10:19pm
Well thank you seaCat - This is what critique means to me. Other's have many ideas of what it is and that's ok :-)))))))
