Preserving DUP: A Print-on-Demand Anthology
Hypothetically, we could create a private print-on-demand anthology for personal records and preservation, where access is restricted to those with a private, non-shareable link and an agreement that the book is for fair use and personal viewing only.
However, copyright still applies, so this would only work if:
1. No profit is made and the book is printed at cost with no markup.
2. The content is used for archival or fair use purposes (e.g., personal record-keeping, study, or preservation).
https://www.copyrightuser.org/educate/archives/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
3. Access is limited to former DUP members.
4. Each person agrees to the terms before ordering.
However, copyright still applies, so this would only work if:
1. No profit is made and the book is printed at cost with no markup.
2. The content is used for archival or fair use purposes (e.g., personal record-keeping, study, or preservation).
https://www.copyrightuser.org/educate/archives/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
3. Access is limited to former DUP members.
4. Each person agrees to the terms before ordering.
case28 said:Hypothetically, we could create a private print-on-demand anthology for personal records and preservation, where access is restricted to those with a private, non-shareable link and an agreement that the book is for fair use and personal viewing only.
However, copyright still applies, so this would only work if:
1. No profit is made and the book is printed at cost with no markup.
2. The content is used for archival or fair use purposes (e.g., personal record-keeping, study, or preservation).
https://www.copyrightuser.org/educate/archives/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
3. Access is limited to former DUP members.
4. Each person agrees to the terms before ordering.
It still seems like a grey area to me.
3. The owner has not prohibited making copies of the work
As well as holding records of government and other public bodies, archives often take collections of unique records and documents from individual people, families, businesses and other private organisations. And while archivists want to make those records available and accessible to everyone, they are always careful to make sure they do so while respecting the rights and interests of the creators and owners of those records. If an owner deposits material and asks that the archive does not make copies for users, the archive will always respect that request.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
I would read that as a prohibition without permission.
However, copyright still applies, so this would only work if:
1. No profit is made and the book is printed at cost with no markup.
2. The content is used for archival or fair use purposes (e.g., personal record-keeping, study, or preservation).
https://www.copyrightuser.org/educate/archives/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
3. Access is limited to former DUP members.
4. Each person agrees to the terms before ordering.
It still seems like a grey area to me.
3. The owner has not prohibited making copies of the work
As well as holding records of government and other public bodies, archives often take collections of unique records and documents from individual people, families, businesses and other private organisations. And while archivists want to make those records available and accessible to everyone, they are always careful to make sure they do so while respecting the rights and interests of the creators and owners of those records. If an owner deposits material and asks that the archive does not make copies for users, the archive will always respect that request.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
I would read that as a prohibition without permission.
Alrighty then! So we’re getting some great questions, so I’ve crunched some numbers. To help structure the anthology, I think we initially aim to allocate approximately 15 pages per section, with 25 sections totalling around 375 pages - we may need to reduce the pages when we finalise the compilation to reduce cost and size of the book.
To keep things flexible, we’re asking curators to select about 33% more poems than their section’s initial allocation. This will give us room to fine-tune page counts during the final compilation while ensuring each section and poet gets fair representation.
Guidelines for Curators:
1. Aim for most poems to fit within one page (100–250 words).
2. Allow a limited number of longer poems (250–500 words) but be selective.
3. If a poem is too long (500+ words), consider excerpts or formatting it across multiple pages.
4. Quality over quantity – We want the best of DUP, not just a collection of poems.
5. Aim for a balanced selection – Include a mix of well-known and lesser-known works that truly represent the depth of the category. This will be entrusted to the delegated curators for each section.
6. Poem Length Consideration – Most poems should ideally fit on a single page (100-250 words). We can accommodate some longer pieces, but let’s be mindful of space. Perhaps we also need to make considerations for short poems.
7. Over-Select by 33% – If your section has 15 pages, aim for 20 pages worth of content. We’ll refine the final list later.
Ahavati said:
Team NaPo'25 will be happy to do that for you, Case. I've never been alone in this massive project.
Quick questions:
1. Is there a specific limit to the number of nominations or submissions?
2. Is there a minimum/maximum word limit per poem?
3. Will images be submitted or just poetry? ( I'm thinking more of the memorials than poems )
4. Who has the final say on what goes into the anthology?*
*We ( Team NaPo'25 ) don't want to spend hours nominating and voting for the best submissions only to be told they're rejected.
Q1. Is there a specific limit to the number of nominations or submissions? see above proposed guidelines.
Q2. Is there a minimum/maximum word limit per poem? see above proposed guidelines.
Q3. Will images be submitted or just poetry? (I'm thinking more of the memorials than poems). I suggest we focus just on the poetry, so no images.
Q4. Who has the final say on what goes into the anthology?*
Great question! To keep this fair and organised, we’ll have teams of curators dedicated to each section (or multiple sections) of the anthology. Each team will:
1. Select poems that best represent their category, ensuring a strong mix of quality and diversity.
2. Be led by a Head Curator, who will finalise selections and help maintain balance.
3. Contribute to the Editorial Group, made up of Head Curators, who will work together to ensure consistency across the anthology and resolve any disputes.
Ultimately, the curation falls to the teams, as they are entrusted with identifying standout works. The Editorial Group ensures cohesion, but selections remain largely in the hands of the curators.
My role is to facilitate the process, organise logistics, and ensure this anthology happens in some way or form (whilst not compromising anybody in the process) and not to dictate content. However, I may occasionally nominate a poem to a delegated team for consideration.
This is a DU community effort, and we need people to step up! If you’d like to help curate a section, nominate yourself in this thread and mention any specific categories you’d like to work on. Once we have an idea of how many people are on board, we can start assigning sections and getting to work.
I’ll PM those DU members who have already offered to help to confirm if they’re onboard and happy with tasks they’ve already been assigned… 😅
To keep things flexible, we’re asking curators to select about 33% more poems than their section’s initial allocation. This will give us room to fine-tune page counts during the final compilation while ensuring each section and poet gets fair representation.
Guidelines for Curators:
1. Aim for most poems to fit within one page (100–250 words).
2. Allow a limited number of longer poems (250–500 words) but be selective.
3. If a poem is too long (500+ words), consider excerpts or formatting it across multiple pages.
4. Quality over quantity – We want the best of DUP, not just a collection of poems.
5. Aim for a balanced selection – Include a mix of well-known and lesser-known works that truly represent the depth of the category. This will be entrusted to the delegated curators for each section.
6. Poem Length Consideration – Most poems should ideally fit on a single page (100-250 words). We can accommodate some longer pieces, but let’s be mindful of space. Perhaps we also need to make considerations for short poems.
7. Over-Select by 33% – If your section has 15 pages, aim for 20 pages worth of content. We’ll refine the final list later.
Ahavati said:
Team NaPo'25 will be happy to do that for you, Case. I've never been alone in this massive project.
Quick questions:
1. Is there a specific limit to the number of nominations or submissions?
2. Is there a minimum/maximum word limit per poem?
3. Will images be submitted or just poetry? ( I'm thinking more of the memorials than poems )
4. Who has the final say on what goes into the anthology?*
*We ( Team NaPo'25 ) don't want to spend hours nominating and voting for the best submissions only to be told they're rejected.
Q1. Is there a specific limit to the number of nominations or submissions? see above proposed guidelines.
Q2. Is there a minimum/maximum word limit per poem? see above proposed guidelines.
Q3. Will images be submitted or just poetry? (I'm thinking more of the memorials than poems). I suggest we focus just on the poetry, so no images.
Q4. Who has the final say on what goes into the anthology?*
Great question! To keep this fair and organised, we’ll have teams of curators dedicated to each section (or multiple sections) of the anthology. Each team will:
1. Select poems that best represent their category, ensuring a strong mix of quality and diversity.
2. Be led by a Head Curator, who will finalise selections and help maintain balance.
3. Contribute to the Editorial Group, made up of Head Curators, who will work together to ensure consistency across the anthology and resolve any disputes.
Ultimately, the curation falls to the teams, as they are entrusted with identifying standout works. The Editorial Group ensures cohesion, but selections remain largely in the hands of the curators.
My role is to facilitate the process, organise logistics, and ensure this anthology happens in some way or form (whilst not compromising anybody in the process) and not to dictate content. However, I may occasionally nominate a poem to a delegated team for consideration.
This is a DU community effort, and we need people to step up! If you’d like to help curate a section, nominate yourself in this thread and mention any specific categories you’d like to work on. Once we have an idea of how many people are on board, we can start assigning sections and getting to work.
I’ll PM those DU members who have already offered to help to confirm if they’re onboard and happy with tasks they’ve already been assigned… 😅
Is NaPo a separate section or would its poetry be considered among the listed sections such as spiritual, etc?
I ask because if Team NaPo goes through 9 years of poetry ( around 7,000 poems ) featured in various categories, do we submit our selections as a whole, or to the curators of the applicable categories?
I ask because if Team NaPo goes through 9 years of poetry ( around 7,000 poems ) featured in various categories, do we submit our selections as a whole, or to the curators of the applicable categories?
Ahavati said:
It still seems like a grey area to me.
3. The owner has not prohibited making copies of the work
As well as holding records of government and other public bodies, archives often take collections of unique records and documents from individual people, families, businesses and other private organisations. And while archivists want to make those records available and accessible to everyone, they are always careful to make sure they do so while respecting the rights and interests of the creators and owners of those records. If an owner deposits material and asks that the archive does not make copies for users, the archive will always respect that request.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
I would read that as a prohibition without permission.
So what do we do DU? Do we move forward with curating and saving copies of proposed poems for the anthology in a shared cloud folders (e.g. Google Drive) while we work through the copyright issue?
This would allow us to start organising the anthology while we figure out the copyright situation and whether there’s a way to proceed legally. This will also buy us time to get endorsement from the poets.
Do we proceed with curation while these issues are being addressed?
It still seems like a grey area to me.
3. The owner has not prohibited making copies of the work
As well as holding records of government and other public bodies, archives often take collections of unique records and documents from individual people, families, businesses and other private organisations. And while archivists want to make those records available and accessible to everyone, they are always careful to make sure they do so while respecting the rights and interests of the creators and owners of those records. If an owner deposits material and asks that the archive does not make copies for users, the archive will always respect that request.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
I would read that as a prohibition without permission.
So what do we do DU? Do we move forward with curating and saving copies of proposed poems for the anthology in a shared cloud folders (e.g. Google Drive) while we work through the copyright issue?
This would allow us to start organising the anthology while we figure out the copyright situation and whether there’s a way to proceed legally. This will also buy us time to get endorsement from the poets.
Do we proceed with curation while these issues are being addressed?
case28 said:
So what do we do DU? Do we move forward with curating and saving copies of proposed poems for the anthology in a shared cloud folders (e.g. Google Drive) while we work through the copyright issue?
This would allow us to start organising the anthology while we figure out the copyright situation and whether there’s a way to proceed legally. This will also buy us time to get endorsement from the poets.
Do we proceed with curation while these issues are being addressed?
My vote is to proceed while collecting permission. I have all of the NaPo entrants' emails so that should be easy for us to gain permission. I just need to know whether to turn them in as a whole or to the curators of specific categories.
And of course, Webmiss' poem will be first.
So what do we do DU? Do we move forward with curating and saving copies of proposed poems for the anthology in a shared cloud folders (e.g. Google Drive) while we work through the copyright issue?
This would allow us to start organising the anthology while we figure out the copyright situation and whether there’s a way to proceed legally. This will also buy us time to get endorsement from the poets.
Do we proceed with curation while these issues are being addressed?
My vote is to proceed while collecting permission. I have all of the NaPo entrants' emails so that should be easy for us to gain permission. I just need to know whether to turn them in as a whole or to the curators of specific categories.
And of course, Webmiss' poem will be first.
Casted_Runes said:Great idea, Case. Might be an idea to include collab poems between members?
Thank you! I’ve included a stand alone section for the collabs.
You’re a brilliant writer and have a keen eye for talent… and poetryt! Would you be interested in taking part in the curation of a specific category?
Thank you! I’ve included a stand alone section for the collabs.
You’re a brilliant writer and have a keen eye for talent… and poetryt! Would you be interested in taking part in the curation of a specific category?
Ahavati said:Spiritual category here, if NaPo isn't a singular category/chapter. I can garner a lot of those from NaPo and others. Hit two bullseyes with a split arrow.
Thank you, Ahavati! You’re the queen of spiritual poetry, so it would be fantastic if you could take the lead in curating the Spiritual Poems section, as well as NaPo.
For now, NaPo will have its own subsection within Poetry Competitions, rather than DUP Features, since that’s where it belongs in the forum. I envision that you’ll need to select three standout poems from each year NaPo was held.
I’ve also updated the category list in the previous post to reflect this change, see below.
case28 said:Based on the feedback so far and some consideration into how the lovely Webmistress has structured and categorised the website, this is the proposed structure for the DUP Anthology:
1. Foreword
A reflection on DUP’s history, its impact, and what made it special.
2. The Best of DUP Poetry (Divided by Categories)
Each section will feature standout poems from across the years, curated by the DUP community:
Love Poems
Dark Poems
Erotic Poems
Spiritual Poems
Anger Poems
Upbeat & Inspirational Poems
Observational Poems
Self Poems
Drugs Poems
Story Poems
Song Lyrics
Fictional Prose
Non-Fiction Prose
Miscellaneous Poems
3. Best Poetry Collaborations
The most epic collabs where poets created something truly special together.
4. The Best Poetry Competitions
Showcasing winning or standout poems from some of the most legendary, challenging, creative, and inspiring DUP comps and NaPoWriMo Challenge – Standout poems from this annual April poetry event.
5. Iconic DUP Moments & Features
Forum Rants – The most legendary rants, including Ray Heinrich’s alligator clitoris rant.
Best Questions from "Ask a Question" – A selection of the funniest, deepest, or weirdest Q&As.
The Muggle – A look back at this satirical publication and its impact on the community.
DUP Podcast – Memorable moments and featured poems from the site’s podcast.
6. Hidden Gems & Underrated Poets
A section highlighting poets who may not have competed in comps or posted prolifically but wrote incredible pieces.
7. Memorials & Tributes
A page dedicated to poets who have passed, featuring select poems or words of remembrance.
Feel free to make comment and let me know if there’s anything to consider.
Thank you, Ahavati! You’re the queen of spiritual poetry, so it would be fantastic if you could take the lead in curating the Spiritual Poems section, as well as NaPo.
For now, NaPo will have its own subsection within Poetry Competitions, rather than DUP Features, since that’s where it belongs in the forum. I envision that you’ll need to select three standout poems from each year NaPo was held.
I’ve also updated the category list in the previous post to reflect this change, see below.
case28 said:Based on the feedback so far and some consideration into how the lovely Webmistress has structured and categorised the website, this is the proposed structure for the DUP Anthology:
1. Foreword
A reflection on DUP’s history, its impact, and what made it special.
2. The Best of DUP Poetry (Divided by Categories)
Each section will feature standout poems from across the years, curated by the DUP community:
Love Poems
Dark Poems
Erotic Poems
Spiritual Poems
Anger Poems
Upbeat & Inspirational Poems
Observational Poems
Self Poems
Drugs Poems
Story Poems
Song Lyrics
Fictional Prose
Non-Fiction Prose
Miscellaneous Poems
3. Best Poetry Collaborations
The most epic collabs where poets created something truly special together.
4. The Best Poetry Competitions
Showcasing winning or standout poems from some of the most legendary, challenging, creative, and inspiring DUP comps and NaPoWriMo Challenge – Standout poems from this annual April poetry event.
5. Iconic DUP Moments & Features
Forum Rants – The most legendary rants, including Ray Heinrich’s alligator clitoris rant.
Best Questions from "Ask a Question" – A selection of the funniest, deepest, or weirdest Q&As.
The Muggle – A look back at this satirical publication and its impact on the community.
DUP Podcast – Memorable moments and featured poems from the site’s podcast.
6. Hidden Gems & Underrated Poets
A section highlighting poets who may not have competed in comps or posted prolifically but wrote incredible pieces.
7. Memorials & Tributes
A page dedicated to poets who have passed, featuring select poems or words of remembrance.
Feel free to make comment and let me know if there’s anything to consider.
DaisyGrace said:The current terms say that DUP can use our content on this site and to promote DUP (I assume it means on socials and advertisements). Putting it in an anthology not sponsored by DUP would, I think, go against the terms and conditions that users agreed to. If it was sponsored by DUP and the webmiss (what a great way to reveal her identity!), you could maybe (MAYBE) justify using whatever poem you wanted from the site, but I wouldn't want to risk it. To be safe, I'd recommend only using work that you get permission for.
Obviously one of the biggest challenges we face in compiling this anthology is that many poets are no longer active on DUP, and we may be unable to get their permission before the site closes. However, there are some absolute cracking poems that deserve to be remembered, and it would be a bloody shame to lose them forever.
Under copyright law, fair use allows for the use of copyrighted material without permission if it includes commentary, because it evaluates, explains, or interprets a poem rather than just reprinting it.
This way we honor poets who may not even know their work is being remembered and analysed. If they ever come across the anthology in the future, they might even appreciate that their poetry left a lasting impact.
Besides, honest and constructive critique has been the reason why so many of us improved as writers.
What do the legal eagles think about this potential loophole?
And Daisy, don’t think you’re going to fly under the radar with your skill and talent and not offer to help.
Obviously one of the biggest challenges we face in compiling this anthology is that many poets are no longer active on DUP, and we may be unable to get their permission before the site closes. However, there are some absolute cracking poems that deserve to be remembered, and it would be a bloody shame to lose them forever.
Under copyright law, fair use allows for the use of copyrighted material without permission if it includes commentary, because it evaluates, explains, or interprets a poem rather than just reprinting it.
This way we honor poets who may not even know their work is being remembered and analysed. If they ever come across the anthology in the future, they might even appreciate that their poetry left a lasting impact.
Besides, honest and constructive critique has been the reason why so many of us improved as writers.
What do the legal eagles think about this potential loophole?
And Daisy, don’t think you’re going to fly under the radar with your skill and talent and not offer to help.
lepperochan said:Case, I promise, hand on agid heart I'll propose myself for a genre tomorrow, or technically later on today when I'm in a less-neebriative state of affair, or technically if you're a man of science, goosed
Yeah, sure! Take your time! But remember the clock is ticking… and the webmistress waits for no one.
Yeah, sure! Take your time! But remember the clock is ticking… and the webmistress waits for no one.
