do we want the BAME competition to be a DUP feature?
52.94%
• 9 votes •
nie
47.06%
• 8 votes •
aye
do we want the BAME competition to be a DUP feature?
Kindly do not presume my race and claim or suggest that I am 'White'.
For the record I am Mixed Race/ Halfcast/ Minority Ethnic/ Other - I have not really had a deep long conversation about my racial identity so the 'tags' used may well be racist or inaccurate. Due to my nature, might say my soul, I consider myself "different" and situations often point towards this: though the difference is due to train/style of thought/feeling rather than purely physical based reasons.
Work heavily gets involved in, presents, represents and champions Black History Month and the BAME Community. It is that contrast, between work and DU, that has me slightly miffed and misunderstanding the point/value of a BAME competition.
At work the very fact of someone being classed as BAME, or it being a fact that is never highlighted, can have repercussions on their career and how they are viewed/treated by colleagues. A person's race is literally there to be seen and accepted or not accepted.
This may also have created a somewhat fatigue for the all-inclusive in me: that for non-work related stuff it has to be explained again why the BAME or inclusive thing is needed because I take it as already given or established.
Think of it like someone who has been abroad for years and keeps asking why changes are needed, having had the benefit of those changes already!
However on DU, I have never personally felt that my race has hampered or disadvantaged me in competitions. There have been, and are, competitions that dictate that only males or females respond or similar 'criteria' are met: but these seem to be as part of an aim: and usually have 2 competitions, as a way to cover each side. This may well mean that someone falls between the 2 and is therefore not acknowledged, such as non-binary, and need to be raised or covered as an issue under the umbrella of identity.
As for Men's and Women's Classics, my view is that such gender based competitions are approached with an 'of-the-time' acceptance, or that it is used as a focuser like a theme so that not every poem under the Sun is included. Yes, it is not exactly the best lines to class this-and-that, but it is a somewhat easy way to identify and class. Plus they allow new and 'other' experiences/viewpoints to express themselves in light of such a narrow/specific viewpoint.
It does sound like I use a different internet, but that is the beauty and flaw of the internet: an endless expanse but some areas may be unvisited and unknown for no real reason. Personally I do not use social media that much, or if I do use it then it is mostly a tailored version that focusses on hobbies rather than the actual news and events of the world. Escapism is a fine thing: but some things still happen even if you run away or are ignorant of them. The world turns.
Do not mistake misunderstanding with antipathy or active opposition. Such lines of thought are stains that run through even the best intended campaigns. It is still possible to live under a rock, or just not understand: to abuse and berate because of this is to include universal unkindness and mortal frailty, rather than try to be tactful or rise above it.
Perhaps now you would oblige me in explaining calmly the reason a BAME competition should be a DU feature. Not because I am dumb or racist, but simply because I do not understand: and quite importantly acknowledge this and would like to inspect this. It is quite possible I am out-of-touch, or under-informed, or just plain wrong, but do not feel I have all the data in front of me to change my mind and support a situation/something I am unclear about.
Plus the reasons would also be good to hear, in order to establish aims off the back of this: not just move for change but also have specific goals.
Apologies if that all sounds aloof and condescending: it is a tone I have, one of many, and I do not try to be cold but unfortunately am just not a Being of easy-companionship.
For the record I am Mixed Race/ Halfcast/ Minority Ethnic/ Other - I have not really had a deep long conversation about my racial identity so the 'tags' used may well be racist or inaccurate. Due to my nature, might say my soul, I consider myself "different" and situations often point towards this: though the difference is due to train/style of thought/feeling rather than purely physical based reasons.
Work heavily gets involved in, presents, represents and champions Black History Month and the BAME Community. It is that contrast, between work and DU, that has me slightly miffed and misunderstanding the point/value of a BAME competition.
At work the very fact of someone being classed as BAME, or it being a fact that is never highlighted, can have repercussions on their career and how they are viewed/treated by colleagues. A person's race is literally there to be seen and accepted or not accepted.
This may also have created a somewhat fatigue for the all-inclusive in me: that for non-work related stuff it has to be explained again why the BAME or inclusive thing is needed because I take it as already given or established.
Think of it like someone who has been abroad for years and keeps asking why changes are needed, having had the benefit of those changes already!
However on DU, I have never personally felt that my race has hampered or disadvantaged me in competitions. There have been, and are, competitions that dictate that only males or females respond or similar 'criteria' are met: but these seem to be as part of an aim: and usually have 2 competitions, as a way to cover each side. This may well mean that someone falls between the 2 and is therefore not acknowledged, such as non-binary, and need to be raised or covered as an issue under the umbrella of identity.
As for Men's and Women's Classics, my view is that such gender based competitions are approached with an 'of-the-time' acceptance, or that it is used as a focuser like a theme so that not every poem under the Sun is included. Yes, it is not exactly the best lines to class this-and-that, but it is a somewhat easy way to identify and class. Plus they allow new and 'other' experiences/viewpoints to express themselves in light of such a narrow/specific viewpoint.
It does sound like I use a different internet, but that is the beauty and flaw of the internet: an endless expanse but some areas may be unvisited and unknown for no real reason. Personally I do not use social media that much, or if I do use it then it is mostly a tailored version that focusses on hobbies rather than the actual news and events of the world. Escapism is a fine thing: but some things still happen even if you run away or are ignorant of them. The world turns.
Do not mistake misunderstanding with antipathy or active opposition. Such lines of thought are stains that run through even the best intended campaigns. It is still possible to live under a rock, or just not understand: to abuse and berate because of this is to include universal unkindness and mortal frailty, rather than try to be tactful or rise above it.
Perhaps now you would oblige me in explaining calmly the reason a BAME competition should be a DU feature. Not because I am dumb or racist, but simply because I do not understand: and quite importantly acknowledge this and would like to inspect this. It is quite possible I am out-of-touch, or under-informed, or just plain wrong, but do not feel I have all the data in front of me to change my mind and support a situation/something I am unclear about.
Plus the reasons would also be good to hear, in order to establish aims off the back of this: not just move for change but also have specific goals.
Apologies if that all sounds aloof and condescending: it is a tone I have, one of many, and I do not try to be cold but unfortunately am just not a Being of easy-companionship.
my bad there viddax, i confess i was working off your profile pic. BAME is a uk invention, as you know, designed to rebalance traditionally white spaces. i don't know when or where it was introduced, only that i was introduced to it through doing a degree in fine art, which is one of those overwhelmingly white-dominated spaces.
the world of published poetry is also such a space. especially that published in english, and this is an english speaking site by and large. i don't personally have the figures, but a quick look see through the threads and it sure looks like a blanket of snow out there at times.
relate hard to not being a being of easy companionship. and i am a little sorry for my tone, this is just something has me pressed. i get fatigued from repeating myself.
of course, it has its flaws, (bame classification) and that's why i wanted to stress that the competition was a free topic contest, so not forcing poets to ride the identity wave in order to compete.
i have since considered the value of a group space, but i wanted it to be something public where everyone could show support even though they wouldn't qualify for the trophy
edit: i don't want to get into the incident with a particular user of this site, but also to mention that there was an incident which precipitated this idea
the world of published poetry is also such a space. especially that published in english, and this is an english speaking site by and large. i don't personally have the figures, but a quick look see through the threads and it sure looks like a blanket of snow out there at times.
relate hard to not being a being of easy companionship. and i am a little sorry for my tone, this is just something has me pressed. i get fatigued from repeating myself.
of course, it has its flaws, (bame classification) and that's why i wanted to stress that the competition was a free topic contest, so not forcing poets to ride the identity wave in order to compete.
i have since considered the value of a group space, but i wanted it to be something public where everyone could show support even though they wouldn't qualify for the trophy
edit: i don't want to get into the incident with a particular user of this site, but also to mention that there was an incident which precipitated this idea
I think if people of different cultures want a place to showcase their tallent it's always been open to people to do it here
I think you approached it the wrong way. Like I say, this isn't america it's an open site
way I see it, it just looks like a Karen thread. people of colours dont need whitey to protect them here, or to open threads for them. I think you're doing people a great injustice by implying they haven't got the balls to start their own thread if they wanted to.
I would suggest leave people to it. if you see racism call it out.
I think you approached it the wrong way. Like I say, this isn't america it's an open site
way I see it, it just looks like a Karen thread. people of colours dont need whitey to protect them here, or to open threads for them. I think you're doing people a great injustice by implying they haven't got the balls to start their own thread if they wanted to.
I would suggest leave people to it. if you see racism call it out.
well, that’s not what i wanted to imply at all and I’m sorry it’s been taken that way. to be clear I don’t want to run or oversee this .
you already made it clear you were very against it. fuck sake, i was trying to do something positive. I’m not opposed to anyone else starting their own thread in fact that would be great. but if it’s needed i can offer a template.
it’s now fuck past three and Karen needs her beauty sleep so night night kyle
you already made it clear you were very against it. fuck sake, i was trying to do something positive. I’m not opposed to anyone else starting their own thread in fact that would be great. but if it’s needed i can offer a template.
it’s now fuck past three and Karen needs her beauty sleep so night night kyle
Hey, I'm sorry if I'm coming g across as negative. I think the idea is solid enough, I just think you went about it a bit askew.
it's been implied a few times in the past 10 months people are too afraid. it does kinda read a little like that here, though I totally accept you wernt thinking like that
most people of those cultures I know, especially the women are strong as fk in mind and in body, same goes for the blokes
they are no different than us, we all have issues and things which need to get done and so on.
I think what happened with Viddax was a perfect example of casual racism. when you thought he was white his opinion bothered you, and two others. no problem jumpin in and making all kinds of implications
then it turned out Viddax was ethnic. I didnt see anyone opolagize or see that his opinion mattered anyway because it didnt go with the narrative
dunno what else to say, Anna. so I'll head off. if you do decide to run one and need any help I'm here.
my apologies again, it seems we disagree a lot hah. but I still like you
These are my thoughts, they are not gospel
it's been implied a few times in the past 10 months people are too afraid. it does kinda read a little like that here, though I totally accept you wernt thinking like that
most people of those cultures I know, especially the women are strong as fk in mind and in body, same goes for the blokes
they are no different than us, we all have issues and things which need to get done and so on.
I think what happened with Viddax was a perfect example of casual racism. when you thought he was white his opinion bothered you, and two others. no problem jumpin in and making all kinds of implications
then it turned out Viddax was ethnic. I didnt see anyone opolagize or see that his opinion mattered anyway because it didnt go with the narrative
dunno what else to say, Anna. so I'll head off. if you do decide to run one and need any help I'm here.
my apologies again, it seems we disagree a lot hah. but I still like you
These are my thoughts, they are not gospel
top o the morning to you lep
i don’t think anyone is afraid per se but probably tired. not wanting to get involved and waste your energy isn’t the same as being afraid to.
and viddaxs opinion still bothers me . i don’t think coming at it from: it’s never been a problem for me so i don’t see the problem is particularly enlightened. while i didn’t make any direct assumptions that I recall regarding his race my opinions were partly formed by the appearance of his avatar and like, that neck looks white. if that is indeed our viddy it becomes clear that could be a reason why he never had an issue.
i also don’t think black poets should have to hide their faces, or tailor their writing to sound “more white” in order to be taken seriously.
there’s no right way. this was almost guaranteed to piss some people off. and listen ill be honest the particular incident i was referring to got me so disgusted it took me a long long while to simmer down.
i think i got more mad on behalf of the slighted community than pretty much anyone else.
last thing i promise and I’ll fuck off
this might not be america, for which i am eternally grateful but it is English speaking which inherently assumes a European bias.
i don’t think anyone is afraid per se but probably tired. not wanting to get involved and waste your energy isn’t the same as being afraid to.
and viddaxs opinion still bothers me . i don’t think coming at it from: it’s never been a problem for me so i don’t see the problem is particularly enlightened. while i didn’t make any direct assumptions that I recall regarding his race my opinions were partly formed by the appearance of his avatar and like, that neck looks white. if that is indeed our viddy it becomes clear that could be a reason why he never had an issue.
i also don’t think black poets should have to hide their faces, or tailor their writing to sound “more white” in order to be taken seriously.
there’s no right way. this was almost guaranteed to piss some people off. and listen ill be honest the particular incident i was referring to got me so disgusted it took me a long long while to simmer down.
i think i got more mad on behalf of the slighted community than pretty much anyone else.
last thing i promise and I’ll fuck off
this might not be america, for which i am eternally grateful but it is English speaking which inherently assumes a European bias.
Anonymous
lepperochan said:Hey, I'm sorry if I'm coming g across as negative. I think the idea is solid enough, I just think you went about it a bit askew.
it's been implied a few times in the past 10 months people are too afraid. it does kinda read a little like that here, though I totally accept you wernt thinking like that
most people of those cultures I know, especially the women are strong as fk in mind and in body, same goes for the blokes
they are no different than us, we all have issues and things which need to get done and so on.
I think what happened with Viddax was a perfect example of casual racism. when you thought he was white his opinion bothered you, and two others. no problem jumpin in and making all kinds of implications
then it turned out Viddax was ethnic. I didnt see anyone opolagize or see that his opinion mattered anyway because it didnt go with the narrative
dunno what else to say, Anna. so I'll head off. if you do decide to run one and need any help I'm here.
my apologies again, it seems we disagree a lot hah. but I still like you
These are my thoughts, they are not gospel
No.
When I replied to Viddax and said "us savage Whites" I was referring to myself and others like me, most notably Whites from America who did not grow up in a country that embraced non Whites and their cultures to the point their influences were little to nonexistant.
The only thing the American Public Education system taught prior to 1990 was that Black People were slaves up until Lincoln and, contrary to further uneducated opinion espoused on this board, northern state folks helped to free them. That. was. it.
Again, I'm all for the feature, in the interest of learning what others can impart into a concentrated space, as opposed to a handful of clueless shmucks running rampant across the board spewing nonsense.
JohnnyBlaze said:
It educates us savage White folks in a world where such knowledge has been systematically suppressed to erased, not just from history books, but from the face of the Earth as well.
Perhaps "savage White folks like me" would have been more concise wording less likely to be spun out of context, but I wasn't in the mood to spit out a ginormous wall of text on the subject. It was a pretty simple and straight to the point response to Viddax.
it's been implied a few times in the past 10 months people are too afraid. it does kinda read a little like that here, though I totally accept you wernt thinking like that
most people of those cultures I know, especially the women are strong as fk in mind and in body, same goes for the blokes
they are no different than us, we all have issues and things which need to get done and so on.
I think what happened with Viddax was a perfect example of casual racism. when you thought he was white his opinion bothered you, and two others. no problem jumpin in and making all kinds of implications
then it turned out Viddax was ethnic. I didnt see anyone opolagize or see that his opinion mattered anyway because it didnt go with the narrative
dunno what else to say, Anna. so I'll head off. if you do decide to run one and need any help I'm here.
my apologies again, it seems we disagree a lot hah. but I still like you
These are my thoughts, they are not gospel
No.
When I replied to Viddax and said "us savage Whites" I was referring to myself and others like me, most notably Whites from America who did not grow up in a country that embraced non Whites and their cultures to the point their influences were little to nonexistant.
The only thing the American Public Education system taught prior to 1990 was that Black People were slaves up until Lincoln and, contrary to further uneducated opinion espoused on this board, northern state folks helped to free them. That. was. it.
Again, I'm all for the feature, in the interest of learning what others can impart into a concentrated space, as opposed to a handful of clueless shmucks running rampant across the board spewing nonsense.
JohnnyBlaze said:
It educates us savage White folks in a world where such knowledge has been systematically suppressed to erased, not just from history books, but from the face of the Earth as well.
Perhaps "savage White folks like me" would have been more concise wording less likely to be spun out of context, but I wasn't in the mood to spit out a ginormous wall of text on the subject. It was a pretty simple and straight to the point response to Viddax.
Anonymous
anna_grin said:misunderstanding happens jb and it’s not racist to talk about race
i acknowledge it is difficult to have an open discussion on the internet but we try i think
Oh, I've no doubt there could have been a genuine misunderstanding of my words ( and Ahavati's words ( and even your words ) ) on Viddax's behalf. He didn't quote anyone in particular, so . . . no harm, no foul in that respect.
It was the assumptions made afterward that needed clearing up. The insistence by a fifth party that apologies for supposed casual racism was in order was itself out of order.
i acknowledge it is difficult to have an open discussion on the internet but we try i think
Oh, I've no doubt there could have been a genuine misunderstanding of my words ( and Ahavati's words ( and even your words ) ) on Viddax's behalf. He didn't quote anyone in particular, so . . . no harm, no foul in that respect.
It was the assumptions made afterward that needed clearing up. The insistence by a fifth party that apologies for supposed casual racism was in order was itself out of order.
