Freedom of Speech and Censorship

Valeriyabeyond said:

This,  is why I agreed with David
the haughty attitudes displayed
by the  both of you,  
Immediately on the attack
pointing fingers at others while you, remain blameless

There  is an unhealthy atmosphere that surrounds certain  threads,  it thrives on comments like yours,  like the ones above

I know where my faults lie, my reply to Davids post  may have been in jest but it is truth that I am aware of truth that I own  .
The two of you skillfully work together  dropping seeds of turmoil.
You sit back to watch it grow
That's horribly arrogant dark behavior

Many of the poets here have SHIT in their lives they deal with everyday they come here to escape to nestle into a place where they can express themselves by reading and writing poetry.
Personal issues may have primed them made them ready to defend themselves you take advantage of their condition by mindfully inserting your burrs in their garment.  

Your behavior has been identified many times
Yet you still claim innocent with priviledge.
You ridicule drone in your thread concerning  posts he has made on his own forum.
You insult Carpe by replying to others comments using him as an example of false narrative or conspiracy.
A new thread was started where members could post and have friendly debate or just information to share CORONA TIME
You had to add another burr with  your thread THEY ARE OUT THERE  formed to ridicule others who think differently than you do.

I'm sure this post will bear no fruit
There will be people who behave as you do wherever I go it's up to me to say my peace with maturity then turn away
Your bait has turned sour and no longer attracts as it once did
When we as adults experience a period of growth in our lives when we have truly turned away from that which has proved to be detrimental or has been recognized as something that has the ability to transform us into someone we don't like someone that bears your reflection
it's that turning away that carries wisdom The wisdom to turn from childish ways to walk on knowing there is nothing you say post or comment that will affect me.  I for one will not be the one who turns to gaze knowing the result would be me turned into a pillar of salt



All this incoherent barking in response to a George Orwell "1984" reference and a "Planet of the Apes" meme directed at no one in particular.

seememed coherent enough for a change. I myself accept guilt of atmosphere, I am human and prone to speaking my mind with bluntness.

I'm not sure closing the forums down is the answer. p'raps it will happen anyway, well have to wait and see.

JohnnyBlaze said:

All this incoherent barking in response to a George Orwell "1984" reference and a "Planet of the Apes" meme directed at no one in particular.



We don't see the world as it is but as we are. ~ Anais Nin

Whatever happens around you, don’t take it personally… Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. All people live in their own dream, in their own mind; they are in a completely different world from the one we live in. When we take something personally, we make the assumption that they know what is in our world, and we try to impose our world on their world.

Even when a situation seems so personal, even if others insult you directly, it has nothing to do with you. What they say, what they do, and the opinions they give are according to the agreements they have in their own minds…Taking things personally makes you easy prey for these predators, the black magicians. They can hook you easily with one little opinion and feed you whatever poison they want, and because you take it personally, you eat it up….

But if you do not take it personally, you are immune in the middle of hell. Immunity in the middle of hell is the gift of this agreement.

Don Miguel Ruiz

JohnnyBlaze said:It seems the people who keep claiming that certain threads or the entire forum is degrading into a fascist state where they aren't allowed to express opinions have yet to make an appearance here.

Or maybe they've changed their minds and are busy at work crafting their manifestos that will launch the very topics they've railed about being denied discussing.  

I guess we wait until they've had their say and kill the time with ... whatever.

It is a free forum after all.

So does that mean that the purpose of this thread, was to invite certain members here, to have another go-around at the same old brawl, that keeps happening here between certain groups of people?    Sure sort of looks to me like you're lying in wait, with this comment.....

MadameLavender said:

So does that mean that the purpose of this thread, was to invite certain members here, to have another go-around at the same old brawl, that keeps happening here between certain groups of people?    Sure sort of looks to me like you're lying in wait, with this comment.....




Nope.

It was an invitation for certain people who interrupt other threads with accusations and inferences of suppression of free speech  here at DUP and abroad to actually spill their concerns in a single thread devoted to the topic rather than continue to clutter up other threads about other topics.

I've repeatedly suggested to others to start such a thread, but they didn't, so I did, to demonstrate the fact that it is a free forum - you can start threads on any topic you want provided it is allowed per site rules.

I have nothing to argue. I know the difference between mass reality and personal fiction and disrupting threads for attention. They can either use the opportunity to exercise their freedom of speech in this thread or not.

Was it meant to spew baseless accusations about other members and even mention them by name?

Nope.

Did I devote huge walls of text towards attacking anyone who did the above?

Nope.

So I doubt I would brawl with anyone over their "opinions" about Free Speech and its supposed suppression no matter who they were or what group they belonged to.

Why does irony always have to be ironic?

there are forums that are all about bait and switch. Some forums are indeed about all internal censorship and control of the narrative at the expense of inclusion.

Clutter?
Derailing?
Attention Seeking?
Personal Motives?
Misinformation?
Bullying?
Stalking?
The Truth?
Facts?
Fake News?
Carachter Assasination?
and of course Free Speech?

Who decides what the terms mean. Should there be a grand narrative adopted with the adoption of Wikipedia definitions? That seems to be the current push in the real world and to some extent here. Some peoples egos and a reluctance to let go control of the narrative they set is all too common. The only saving grace is that on DU there are only a blessed few in comparison to the real world where tinpot totalitarian dictators are ten a penny.

I was deadly serious about dropping the forums in favour of organised groups, for instance, there could be a COVID group, a free-speech group, a conspiracy theory group, a NAPO group, in fact, there could be a group for all eventualities. Forming a group takes some hard work as it does running it. It means that people know, going in, the topic and basic rules of the group. If done well there is no ambiguity of what to expect or what not to expect. Therefore forums to me are a lazy alternative to groups. Groups also lessen the workloads of MODS and The Webmiss who end up with having to deal with dramas and personal meltdowns. I can't think of one abusive comment that has appeared in the Cafe Critique Group AKA Poetry Medics group nor has there been any need for MODS or The Webmiss to get involved with personal dramas. Outside of the group, it was attacked for various reasons including personal ones, where else, but the forums. There are too many toxic forums it is in their very nature or deliberate design. I can't think of one group that promotes anything other than positivity.


Now before the reports on this comment and its censure I have to say one last thing: These are my strongly held opinions and only that. This is not aimed at anyone individual or grouping. I am too tired of that and just want to explore solutions. I myself have been guilty of knee jerk reactions and creating the odd thread with personal biases. I remember setting up a thread suggesting a forum like "fight club style" where people could name names, vent and provide evidence of wrongdoing - surprisingly the was no uptake. But madame Lavender swiftly stomped on the thread with good old lead boots. She was 100% correct in doing so and I was in the wrong. No one is infallible nor should they be treated as such

Just an equation of sorts:

(Forums) x (Ego) - (Inclusion) + (Personal Bigotry) / (Control) - (Honesty) + (Abuse) = (Toxicity)  + (Drama) - (common sense) / (Hatred) - (Free Speech).

Thankfully we do have the ability to block abusive and annoying people on our poems without having to rely on a 3rd party ( moderators + admin with their internal politics ) to intervene.

http://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/384624-triggered/

If only the DUP site software could render blocked users completely hidden from view to the blocker ( on poems, forum, "public non-clique" groups ( it's been demonstrated that people do get blocked from groups based on personal dislike ), ie everywhere ). i've advocated for that option somewhere in the past here after experiencing it on another site with software that is 20 something years old.

With every obnoxious post left intact, all members seeing such could voluntary self censor. The responsibility for being ignored would fall squarely on the shoulders of the obnoxious.

It gives everyone the ability to self censor without having to file a single report about anything. Then no one can complain their Free Speech rights are being trampled on.

Censoring the chronic abusers completely from the site for not using the site as intended would then solely be up to the moderators without any input from the members ( in the interest of keeping it clean of obvious abuse, SPAM, etc, to continue attracting non members and fresh subscription dollars ).

Then if the moderators aren't being dilligent at keeping the site attractive for potential members and thus potential subscription dollars, it is up the site owner to replace them without any 2 cents necessary from the current membership and its politics ( unless a situation involving an abusive moderator arises ... again ).

And, yes, when it comes to comps, it's not a problem to temporarily unblock people for the duration of a comp to allow the blocked to participate and thus not abuse them through an exclusion process. That they deserve to participate in the comps launched by someone they have been abusing and annoying is a legitimate question - while comps put to a vote are a non issue. I imagine the software can be programmed so that any comp starter having anyone blocked can auto switch to public vote, but that bridge has yet to be crossed. I'm sure a message in the creation of any comp instructing starters to unblock everyone would suffice.

It's an idea very much worth looking into, Webmiss.

Censoring the chronic abusers completely from the site for not using the site as intended would then solely be up to the moderators without any input from the members ( in the interest of keeping it clean of obvious abuse, SPAM, etc, to continue attracting non members and fresh subscription dollars ).


I'm not sure why you're not including yourself in the above. Seriously, do you think you're above reproach ? Or that your not transparent to anyone with half a brain cell. if you can't accept your own culpability, dont point fingers, simple as that. jesus christ it's hard to tell whether you actually believe what you're saying or you're just stirring the pot. at a guess I would say both

lepperochan said:Censoring the chronic abusers completely from the site for not using the site as intended would then solely be up to the moderators without any input from the members ( in the interest of keeping it clean of obvious abuse, SPAM, etc, to continue attracting non members and fresh subscription dollars ).


I'm not sure why you're not including yourself in the above. Seriously, do you think you're above reproach ? Or that your not transparent to anyone with half a brain cell. if you can't accept your own culpability, dont point fingers, simple as that. jesus christ it's hard to tell whether you actually believe what you're saying or you're just stirring the pot. at a guess I would say both





JohnnyBlaze said:


Nope.

It was an invitation for certain people who interrupt other threads with accusations and inferences of suppression of free speech  here at DUP and abroad to actually spill their concerns in a single thread devoted to the topic rather than continue to clutter up other threads about other topics.

I've repeatedly suggested to others to start such a thread, but they didn't, so I did, to demonstrate the fact that it is a free forum - you can start threads on any topic you want provided it is allowed per site rules.

I have nothing to argue. I know the difference between mass reality and personal fiction and disrupting threads for attention. They can either use the opportunity to exercise their freedom of speech in this thread or not.

Was it meant to spew baseless accusations about other members and even mention them by name?

Nope.

Did I devote huge walls of text towards attacking anyone who did the above?

Nope.

So I doubt I would brawl with anyone over their "opinions" about Free Speech and its supposed suppression no matter who they were or what group they belonged to.

lepperochan said:yeah, that's what I thought you'd say. I'd have preferred some kind of coherent no barking reply, but hey, we can live in hope

JohnnyBlaze said:Thankfully we do have the ability to block abusive and annoying people on our poems without having to rely on a 3rd party ( moderators + admin with their internal politics ) to intervene.

http://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/384624-triggered/

If only the DUP site software could render blocked users completely hidden from view to the blocker ( on poems, forum, "public non-clique" groups ( it's been demonstrated that people do get blocked from groups based on personal dislike ), ie everywhere ). i've advocated for that option somewhere in the past here after experiencing it on another site with software that is 20 something years old.

With every obnoxious post left intact, all members seeing such could voluntary self censor. The responsibility for being ignored would fall squarely on the shoulders of the obnoxious.

It gives everyone the ability to self censor without having to file a single report about anything. Then no one can complain their Free Speech rights are being trampled on.

Censoring the chronic abusers completely from the site for not using the site as intended would then solely be up to the moderators without any input from the members ( in the interest of keeping it clean of obvious abuse, SPAM, etc, to continue attracting non members and fresh subscription dollars ).

Then if the moderators aren't being dilligent at keeping the site attractive for potential members and thus potential subscription dollars, it is up the site owner to replace them without any 2 cents necessary from the current membership and its politics ( unless a situation involving an abusive moderator arises ... again ).

And, yes, when it comes to comps, it's not a problem to temporarily unblock people for the duration of a comp to allow the blocked to participate and thus not abuse them through an exclusion process. That they deserve to participate in the comps launched by someone they have been abusing and annoying is a legitimate question - while comps put to a vote are a non issue. I imagine the software can be programmed so that any comp starter having anyone blocked can auto switch to public vote, but that bridge has yet to be crossed. I'm sure a message in the creation of any comp instructing starters to unblock everyone would suffice.

It's an idea very much worth looking into, Webmiss.

yeah, that's what I thought you'd say. I'd have preferred some kind of coherent no barking reply, but hey, we can live in hope

^^^^^^^ These ramblings brought to you by a member ( then rickE or one of his other million undisclosed profiles ) who stalked my facebook account and then publicly threatened ( here in a DU forum post ) to manipulate my then 7/8 year old grandson's photo ( I had as a profile pic ) and splash it all over adult websites.

Just so you all know about the person pointing fingers.

#Carryon #Freespeech #Truth