Go to page:

allowing anti-vaccine is irresponsible

Ahavati
Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
98awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 9772

lepperochan said:We know they dont stop a person contracting and spreading it. we know that. we now know weasringva mask doesn't really stop the spread either. masks have been mandatory for months now, the UK variant musn't have got that particular

Edit

true. We dont know enough. Is t that the cusp of the problem.

I have no care who take the vaccine or not. do it, dont do it. not gonna look at anyone different either way


I can agree in regards to COVID-19. I was alarmed when I read your initial statement about vaccines not saving other lives. I lived in the era of polio ( had a teacher and knew several students crippled by it ); measles, mumps, whooping cough ( God forbid that ever return ), and so forth.

Vaccines had alleviated the fear of existent spread by the time I had my children; but, not enough to not have them vaccinated. By the time my grandprecious was born they were practically unheard of; but, still, we didn't want to risk it so had him vaccinated. Imagine if the majority of children had not been vaccinated due to parental fear back in the 50/60's? Those diseases would be much more rampant than they are now. And if you've ever seen anyone with them ( and I have, being a third-world missionary ), you wouldn't wish them on your worst enemy.

The Rotary Club is still vaccinating against polio in parts of the world. The U.S. ( and I imagine many other countries here ) are very lucky to have eradicated it. But who really knows if it migrated at various times to the U.S. from someone carrying the gene or whatnot, but it didn't spread because of the vaccines.

I get where some are coming from labeling antivaccers assholes. Many do shame and use fear tactics against parents ( particularly new ones ) in regards to vaccinations. Those are assholes, undoubtedly. What pisses me off are these women who don't have to leave their homes to work, and can afford the choice to homeschool. Other mothers don't have that choice, and shouldn't be shamed for vaccinating.

The decision to vaccinate one's child is very difficult for some parents, who weigh potential side-effects from a vaccine vs adverse affects from a disease. It's a highly personal decision between parents and their pediatrician ( or physician ). And the release forms ( as well as the physicians ) undoubtedly outline potential side-effects.

I feel the same way about vegetarians and vegans. They can be assholes. I am vegetarian because I love animals; however, I can sit across from someone wolfing down a burger or eating a rare steak floating in a bloody plate and not finch. I cannot sit across from a fellow veg or vegan shaming those around us for eating meat.

They're being assholes. Plain and simple. It's akin to the disease of religion and all the spilt blood over personal beliefs. It's crazy.

If people spent as much time focusing on their own lives vs dictating everyone else's, this world would be a much more accepting and compassionate place

But no. Because if I do it, believe it, or live it; then bygod you need to as well, and I'll shame your ass through fear tactics to make sure I get my point across. We've all seen them. This dude just called it out.

No one wants to stand in another's shoes for demanding others stand in theirs.


lepperochan
lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
66awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 13997

"But no. Because if I do it, believe it, or live it; then bygod you need to as well, and I'll shame your ass through fear tactics to make sure I get my point across. We've all seen them. This dude just called it out."


thing is, both sides are using shame tactics on each other. that's what should be called out. you only have to look at the language the guy is using to feel the disdain and uppity'nesshe is projecting.
the thread came about because the guy wanted
to censor people who have thought about it and figured they wouldnt.

That's also what should be called out


I do agree vaccines have made a huge impact on our collective health.

fiveamtuesday
fiveamtuesday
Thought Provoker
3awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 11th Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 243

lepperochan said:"But no. Because if I do it, believe it, or live it; then bygod you need to as well, and I'll shame your ass through fear tactics to make sure I get my point across. We've all seen them. This dude just called it out."


thing is, both sides are using shame tactics on each other. that's what should be called out. you only have to look at the language the guy is using to feel the disdain and uppity'nesshe is projecting.
the thread came about because the guy wanted
to censor people who have thought about it and figured they wouldnt.

That's also what should be called out


I do agree vaccines have made a huge impact on our collective health.


I'm fine with shaming and being shamed. I'm fine with the full spectrum of emotions and because every emotion has their own strength and purpose.

I feel ashamed about how modern society is and it helps motivate me to at least try and do something productive to change it.

If we start being selective about what types of emotional tools should be restricted then that becomes the exact same thing as restricting freedom of speech.

Go ahead and shame me, I don't feel bad about being shamed on something that I truly believe in.
If you decide to come into my thread and feel like you're being shamed, and at any time you can leave but you decide to stay, that just tells me that something I'm saying is getting through to you.

In my humble opinion, the matter of vaccination is not about infringing individual rights, it's about establishing the consensus that we need to start viewing preventable diseases the same way the law perceives negligent behaviour.

In any other circumstance an innocent bystander is harmed by another person's negligence it is an offense to the law. I don't know why something like vaccinations should be separated from that consideration.

Ahavati
Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States
98awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 9772

lepperochan said:"But no. Because if I do it, believe it, or live it; then bygod you need to as well, and I'll shame your ass through fear tactics to make sure I get my point across. We've all seen them. This dude just called it out."


thing is, both sides are using shame tactics on each other. that's what should be called out. you only have to look at the language the guy is using to feel the disdain and uppity'nesshe is projecting.
the thread came about because the guy wanted
to censor people who have thought about it and figured they wouldnt.

That's also what should be called out

I do agree vaccines have made a huge impact on our collective health.


Okay, I might be wrong but I was under the impression he was advocating against the misinformation which antivaccers are notorious for sharing and using to shame parents into not vaccinating their children.

I am not an antivaccer; however, I honestly do not know if I'll get the COVID-19 vaccine. I have only been vaccinated once against the flu and I have never been sicker, being it's the only time I also had the flu. I haven't had it since.

I have a rare form of anaphylaxis asthma. I don't go around gasping when I have an attack; I literally swell up as though I've been stung by a bee; my throat will close off before my lungs ever do. There have been roughly two dozen reported cases of severe  anaphylaxis reaction upon taking the vaccine. My doctor currently has me isolated until more information about both vaccines is available, after which time she will advise which way she feels I should go.

I cannot imagine this thread starter referring to me as an antivaccer asshole because I'm following my physician's recommendations in regards to not being vaccinated right now.

Again, I could be wrong.

I disagree with censorship in regards to a difference of opinion; however, I vehemently detest the dissemination of false information and feel it should not be allowed to stand. Particularly when such information has been proven false, and the poster refuses to retract based on free speech and censorship!

Yay for Twitter, Facebook, and the like for banning Trump's bullshit, as well as other individuals and organizations. Enough in this ever-growing world of faux news and fake screenshots riddled with misinformation and fear. Censorship against an opinion = bad; censorship against misinformation = hell yes.

I thought that's what this dude was referring to.

Lastly, I could be wrong.


fiveamtuesday
fiveamtuesday
Thought Provoker
3awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 11th Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 243

Ahavati said:



yeah I'm against spreading misinformation, and I believe that misinformation is a large reason why a lot of antivaxers believe what they do.
If people have legitimate medical concerns on their pre-existing concerns, then they already know they're exempt from the discussion.


This thread was meant to be my platform to try and refute and disseminate false information on COVID, and to promote vaccination, because at the heart of it vaccinations really is one of the greatest things to have ever happened in modern history, and every year that goes by scientific progress makes it safer and smarter.

The biggest argument I see against vaccines are the fringe cases where it doesn't work, or an intangible potential, and I think that presents people with false dilemmas.

and In regards to censorship, free-speech doesn't mean all speech. You can't go to a movie theater and yell fire, you can't go to an airport and yell bomb, and if recent events have made it clear, we can't tolerate people threatening insurrection online.
antivax rhetoric is literally no different.
It all has the potential to endanger lives.

EdibleWords
EdibleWords
Tyrant of Words
8awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 7th Jan 2018
Forum Posts: 2757


fiveamtuesday said:

I just explained how it can, if not directly then indirectly. At the very least you can't become more infectious after being vaccinated.


Why is it ok for your side to say whatever you want without proof WHILE demanding silence?

I get the impression that you mock anyone who explains why they do not think like you do. And you think you are the smarter one for your opinion.

People will shovel unnecessary sugars and carbs into their body no problem.

Great example of controversial opinions swung as gospel fact.

I donít agree with you on that one. You have no business telling others they are eating excess carbs.

I remember fondly the era of humility in science.

They'll smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol on the reg.

Estrogens are pro-cancer. Tobacco blocks estrogen. Chew on that thought.

Alcohol consumption in moderate amounts is safer than tea-totaling lifestyles. The glass isnít half empty, after all!

They'll eat meat and dairy without ever realizing that they have trace amounts of feces all over them. We all already have microplastics all over us and in our bodies.

Considering we also inhale dust and bugs I donít see the point in spasms of germaphobic fear.

But a medically designed and curated vaccine with exact proportions of antigens produced in a sterilized lab

You must think they can give you just the one virus. Truth is, they donít filter out the rotting proteins from incubation and they cannot filter the other viruses out. So they disable everything with preservatives. Yum.

that has to be rigorously approved through multiple layers of expert professionals is where people draw the line???

Expert professionals paid to make someone money. Sometimes thatís a military industrial complex.

Blows my mind.


Hereís some more excitement for you.

https://www.nvic.org/about/barbaraloefisher.aspx

Blackwolf
Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
Tyrant of Words
12awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 31st Mar 2018
Forum Posts: 3458

I have a scar on my arm...

My sacrifice for being given the anti polio shot , in the 50's...

And I am proud of it , as it helped protect the rest of the populace...

If I , and others , had *not* done that , a lot of you would never
have been born...so be fucking grateful , and do not fight vaccination...

Just get some guts , take a chance , and get vaccinated...

We never knew if we were going to live , or die...we just did it

Because we believed in the greater good...

That of the nation and the world...( my way of seeing it at that time )

Now , if you are not willing , in my opinion...kiss my ass , punk...

Purely my opinion...

hemihead
hemihead
hemi
Dangerous Mind
New Zealand
13awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 1st Nov 2010
Forum Posts: 1745

Blackwolf said:I have a scar on my arm...

My sacrifice for being given the anti polio shot , in the 50's...

And I am proud of it , as it helped protect the rest of the populace...

If I , and others , had *not* done that , a lot of you would never
have been born...so be fucking grateful , and do not fight vaccination...

Just get some guts , take a chance , and get vaccinated...

We never knew if we were going to live , or die...we just did it

Because we believed in the greater good...

That of the nation and the world...( my way of seeing it at that time )

Now , if you are not willing , in my opinion...kiss my ass , punk...

Purely my opinion...


Seems fair to me.

Blackwolf
Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
Tyrant of Words
12awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 31st Mar 2018
Forum Posts: 3458

fiveamtuesday said:

I'm fine with shaming and being shamed. I'm fine with the full spectrum of emotions and because every emotion has their own strength and purpose.

I feel ashamed about how modern society is and it helps motivate me to at least try and do something productive to change it.

If we start being selective about what types of emotional tools should be restricted then that becomes the exact same thing as restricting freedom of speech.

Go ahead and shame me, I don't feel bad about being shamed on something that I truly believe in.
If you decide to come into my thread and feel like you're being shamed, and at any time you can leave but you decide to stay, that just tells me that something I'm saying is getting through to you.

In my humble opinion, the matter of vaccination is not about infringing individual rights, it's about establishing the consensus that we need to start viewing preventable diseases the same way the law perceives negligent behaviour.

In any other circumstance an innocent bystander is harmed by another person's negligence it is an offense to the law. I don't know why something like vaccinations should be separated from that consideration.



Blackwolf
Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
Tyrant of Words
12awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 31st Mar 2018
Forum Posts: 3458

hemihead said:

Seems fair to me.


Thank You , Sir !

......

Valeriyabeyond
Valeriyabeyond
Dhyana
Dangerous Mind
3awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 3rd May 2020
Forum Posts: 2526

I need an emoji with it's finger down it's throat🤮

Blackwolf
Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
Tyrant of Words
12awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 31st Mar 2018
Forum Posts: 3458

Valeriyabeyond said:I need an emoji with it's finger down it's throat🤮

If you mean what I think you mean , Val...

Choke on your finger...

drone
drone
Dangerous Mind
Greece
10awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 3rd Sep 2011
Forum Posts: 1874

At least 13 people have died in Norway due to side effects of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine, the national medicines regulator has revealed. All were frail and elderly people who had unusually strong reactions to the jabs.
Norway launched its Covid-19 immunization program on December 27, including residents of nursing homes on the priority list. Since then, 23 people have died shortly after receiving the injections. Norwegian medics are evaluating all such cases and have linked 13 of them to the side effects of the vaccine, according to local media.

ďWe do not see anything alarming with these figures. All deaths are in elderly and frail people with underlying diseases,Ē Dr. Steinar Madsen, the medical director of the national drug regulator, the Norwegian Medicines Agency, explained.


Australian scientists urge pause on deployment of AstraZeneca vaccine over efficacy concerns, suggest Pfizer or Moderna instead
For context, Norway has a population of over five million. Madsen previously said that between 350 and 400 people die at the countryís nursing homes each week as he predicted that some elderly people may not react well to the vaccine.

In addition to those who died, there were also 29 vaccine recipients who had developed significant side effects, including nine serious cases and seven mild ones, the official reported. All Covid-19 vaccines can sometimes cause adverse reactions like fever and nausea.

The Norwegian Public Health Institute updated its Covid-19 vaccination guidelines earlier this week to reflect the new data. The document now instructs medics to thoroughly evaluate nursing home residents before giving them the vaccine. For very ill people who are not expected to live long, the benefit of the jab ďmay be marginal or negligible,Ē the guidelines say.



drone
drone
Dangerous Mind
Greece
10awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 3rd Sep 2011
Forum Posts: 1874

New Jersey's state epidemiologist, Dr. Eddy Bresnitz, said monoclonal antibodies may have played a role in a recent leveling off of the state's Covid-19 hospitalizations. "It's worth the effort to get it," Bresnitz said during a media briefing Thursday.
So why aren't people getting it?
Simply put, a lack of time, resources and awareness.
Obstacles to administration
Monoclonal antibodies must be given soon after a person has tested positive. "These medications work best when given early," Surgeon General Jerome Adams said during Thursday's briefing.
The two monoclonal antibody products that have been authorized for emergency use by the FDA, from the drugmakers Eli Lilly and Regeneron, must be given within the first week of illness.
But with testing still lagging across much of the country, many patients must wait several days to find out whether, in fact, they have been infected. Simply waiting for the test results can push patients past time they might qualify for treatment.
That barrier, however, shouldn't be a factor in getting monoclonal antibodies, said Dr. John Redd, the chief medical officer for the office of the assistant secretary of health and human services for preparedness and response.


Getting these therapeutics does not require having a PCR test," Redd said during Thursday's briefing. (A PCR, or polymerase chain reaction, test is considered the gold standard, but it can take days to get a result.)
Instead, Redd said, "a rapid test is quite appropriate." Rapid tests can return results within minutes, but they have higher
Rates
of
False
Negatives.

Those on the front lines of treating Covid-19 patients say it's not that easy.

Image: Monoclonal antibodies (Craig F. Walker / Boston Globe via Getty Images file)
Image: Monoclonal antibodies (Craig F. Walker / Boston Globe via Getty Images file)
Monoclonal antibodies are given intravenously, in an hourlong infusion, with an appointment lasting three to four hours. Because Covid-19 patients are contagious, they must be separated from other vulnerable patients who need outpatient infusions, such as those receiving chemotherapy for cancer.

Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, an infectious disease specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, said some patients might decline the treatment simply because they're feeling better. But that might be a mistake. It has become clear that some patients may feel better before they abruptly get worse.

For many others, logistical problems get in the way.

Public transportation and ride-shares, such as Uber, are out of the question for those with active Covid-19. In addition, Chin-Hong said, some patients simply can't afford three hours out of their day away from work or family obligations.

Chin-Hong estimates that his health system has used less than 20 percent of the monoclonal antibodies in stock.

What's more, special infusion centers must be set up and staffed. Some say it's an unreasonable demand on health systems that are already stretched.

"If we had this pandemic under control, we could set up infusion centers. We could set up rapid testing. But we don't have those resources," said Dr. Pieter Cohen, who is an associate professor at Harvard Medical School and a physician with the Cambridge Health Alliance Respiratory Clinic near Boston.

"We're completely swamped with sick patients," Cohen said.

Chin-Hong agreed. "These patients are generally well, and you want to focus on the sick patients," he said.

"I think that's where people's mindsets are ó particularly in California right now," he said. The state has had a surge in Covid-19 cases of late. In the state's most populous county, Los Angeles, 10 people on average test positive for the virus every minute.

The hurdles aren't lost on at least some of those leading the federal response. "We recognize the health care system is very stressed," Dr. Janet Woodcock, therapeutics lead for Operation Warp Speed, said during Thursday's media call.

"On the other hand, if we don't do this, the likelihood is that we'll have even more overwhelmed hospitals and health care workers," Woodcock said, adding that her team feels that efforts to set up such infusion centers are "worth it" to reduce the burdens on health care systems.

Some standalone kidney dialysis centers across the country have announced that they will begin administering monoclonal antibodies to Covid-19 patients during shifts set up for only those patients. Covid-19 has been shown to be especially dire for patients with kidney disease.

Download the NBC News app for full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

Another factor may be lack of awareness, among both patients and providers, that the treatments are available.

fiveamtuesday
fiveamtuesday
Thought Provoker
3awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 11th Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 243

EdibleWords said:

Why is it ok for your side to say whatever you want without proof WHILE demanding silence?



There is already an abundance of evidence that exists that assure that vaccinations work. Because you donít believe it doesnít mean itís not real.


Great example of controversial opinions swung as gospel fact.

I donít agree with you on that one. You have no business telling others they are eating excess carbs.


Obesity and diabetes have been rising for several years

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4887150/

Iím not telling people what to eat, Iím stating a fact.



Estrogens are pro-cancer. Tobacco blocks estrogen. Chew on that thought.

Alcohol consumption in moderate amounts is safer than tea-totaling lifestyles. The glass isnít half empty, after all!


Tobbaco damages DNA on a molecular level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546629/

Excess drinking is on the rise
https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-drinking.html


Considering we also inhale dust and bugs I donít see the point in spasms of germaphobic fear.


I still eat meat and drink milk. Iím just stating a fact.


You must think they can give you just the one virus. Truth is, they donít filter out the rotting proteins from incubation and they cannot filter the other viruses out. So they disable everything with preservatives. Yum.


Phagocytes are white blood cells that consume dead cells in the body. The spleen is part of the process to discard any additional waste in the body.


Expert professionals paid to make someone money. Sometimes thatís a military industrial complex.

Hitler



Hereís some more excitement for you.
https://www.nvic.org/about/barbaraloefisher.aspx


Sheís not a messiah
https://shotofprevention.com/2016/03/03/barbara-loe-fisher-is-right-shes-also-to-blame/

Iím not trying to say Iím smarter, Iím trying to bring up the legitimate science behind why vaccination, especially in light of COVID, is the best option for everyone, for the sake of community.

I obviously canít make you believe in it. If you want to be smug and discredit my points, then thatís really not my problem.

Iím just trying to do my part wherever I can.



Go to page:
Go to: