so.. where are you now with this whole poetry lark

Thank you for your honest feedback.
I find it useful.

lepperochan said:[quote-180605-lepperochan]Masquerade  
 
The Carnival of Venice
 
Everyone robed for the ball
 
Although I am a woman
 
I now dress as a man
 
This is not permitted
 
I will enjoy myself                               (1)
 
As long as I can
 
 
Ah there I see a veiled lady
 
With her rosy lips
 
Her exciting cleavage
 
The gleam in her eyes
 
Oh how I would love to
 
Seduce the lady in blue
 
 
There is music in the air
 
Laughter and gaiety
 
I approach the lady fair
 
Ask her to dance with me
 
 
She says yes and I lower my voice
 
Tell her she is lovely
 
Kiss her on her neck
 
Tell her I am the Marquis of So and So
 
A prominent and handsome man
 
 
What a match I would make
 
For that lady fair
 
Now is my chance
 
Romance is in the air
 
 
Couples are a courting
 
In the moonlight
 
I take her to a courtyard
 
When we kiss passionately
 
My hands wander
 
Over her bosom
 
She has let me
 
 
Now comes the tricky part
 
She must remain a virgin
 
So I am very cautious
 
As I find her mound of venus
 
And what lies below it
 
Careful fingers feel the rush
 
Of sweet fluids and the buckling
 
Of her knees, one more time
 
And her hymen is gone with ease
 
 
The night becomes dawn
 
She has to go home
 
I have to run
 
Cannot be caught
 
Impersonating a man
 
Only once a year
 
Can I come out of the closet
 
I go home to my husband
 
Children and my bourgeoisie.








Ok, number (1), I'll start off the critiques.

I think the content is sound enough, I think that the lines are very abrupt, meaning there's a lot of stop/start going on rather than a fluid read.

If you take the first seven lines, I'll try show you what I mean.
I think that lines read more fluid depending on how you finish the line before and start the line after etc, so if you take that into consideration and apply it to these lines, you might feel the difference while reading;

 
The Carnival of Venice
 
Everyone robed for the ball
 
Although I am a woman
 
I now dress as a man
 
This is not permitted
 
I will enjoy myself                              
 
As long as I can

---------------------------------------------------------------
At the Carnival of Venice
 
with everyone robed for the ball

and I'm a woman dressed as a man

even though it's not permitted

(I'll enjoy myself as long as I can )



I've just added in a word here and there to try and increase the fluidity (or my perception of it). the line at the end I've put in brackets because I'm not sure you need it at all.

It sometimes feels like you're trying too hard to set a plot, almost spoon feeding it, which results in you not setting the actual scene as good as you can. If you take the actual scene that you have set, the carnival, people robed up and stuff, you could try get that scene and images of what's around you in a little more vividly. I think you should have more faith in the average reader that he/ she'll get it.


Just in the context of punctuation, these lines;

"I go home to my husband
 
Children and my bourgeoisie."

see, if you're going down the route of zero punctuation , I think you have to make up for that in your line breaks. though I honestly can't see how you'll get away with not using a comma

I go home to my husband, children
and my bourgeoisie.  

is how I'd do it.

okay, please don't go taking the above too literally, it is after all only my opinion.  
[/quote]

Okay ..that's cool too,  'cept you just gave yourself away,  making the annon aspect pf your poem kaput. If I'd of seen it sooner I could have asked for it to be hidden. mebbe write a new one altogether.  It's not a huge deal Kitty.

Just for future reference,  If you  (an entrant)  get a critique and feel compelled to respond ..resist , for the love of god resist.  :)

MrAlptraum said:With critique being one hundred percent someone's opinion and utterly subjective, how do you determine a best?

That's a really good question Mr A,  and one I promise to have an answer for, by the end of the day.   So help me god ..or you can break both my legs ,  you...not god.  

Eamon, the answer is pretty straight forward, even without delving into metaphysics or even just vanilla physics; everything is subjective, every experience, thought, action reaction...why the hell should a poetry comp escape that?

More relevant here though; every comp ever played out on the du needs two things...people willing to write, and people willing to judge, both of whom open themselves up to comments like the one that has been made.

It is most easy of all, to sit on the sidelines and piss on about the referee...and there is usually an entire stadium full of them at any football game, not one of whom can play.

Content, thoroughness, restraint, offering advice, comparison, knowledge of technique, care for the writer, encouragement, ability in the genre, soundness of reasoning, length, broadness of the scope of the critique... etc etc...

That was a good answer. The thing with critique, is people just seem to throw it down without much thought. Like robots. They have some internal manual for every poem. The person giving critique, mainly a person who is showing off, or giving their ego another tour, is more likely to hinder the poem/poet, rather than help.

It's pretty hard to critique a poem, without knowing other work of the poet, but everybody does it(I have a thousand times). Some people can't write for shit but can read and work poetry beautifully, and vice versa.

Wasn't really gettin' at anything, just curious. Of course everything here's subjective, and of course, judging the critique will be based on what makes the poem better in the judge's eyes.

Thanks Hemi, That pretty much covers what I had in mind, will confess though that I was finding it hard to articulate. so fairly happy to see you answered.

perfectly valid question Mr A, I hope that answer goes some way to helping.


Guys, it's a hard comp. I've put a fair bit of thought into it. critique is a vital factor in our learning and understanding what we and others write, and as has been said the more we learn to critique properly the more we'll learn to write better etc. This comp is about encompassing both the writing and the learning.

so, let the fun continue        

Apologies, mr a, for my tone...woke up cranky :-)

out of work  
a few hours early,  
   
at the bar.  
   
Between rounds two  
and three,  
knowing already  
   
I'll be up late tonite  
writing.  
   
Not sure on what,  
thinking I better stick to  
something authentic  
   
where I'm at    
what I feel  
   
which any drunk with a pen will tell ya  
is damned hard when words are involved.  
   
..............returning  
   
between rounds 6  
and "fuck you pussy for keeping track"  
is about as bad an idea  
and authentic as    
   
I am.  
(might as well roll the di)    
   
.......at home,  
between    
where the rounds can be counted  
and the world spins in the wrong direction  
is the worst time to discuss  
my first poem.  
   
I was fifteen  
in English class  
probably high                                   (7)
and certainly    
on edge.  
   
Teacher describes poetry;  
the abstract innards    
and such  
   
I rebel hard  
write out the tedium,  
the actual staleness of the classroom  
and await the disapproval  
I think I  
have earned.  
   
Never got the reward I wanted  
and to this day  
can describe  
exactly  
what  
   
twelve ounces attached    
to the right hand    
   
can offer to a psyche.

Perfectly tone deaf


first day of spring
I mean night
and the snow floats down in windless air

the room is lazily lit by a lamp
and the dog keeps nagging me for affection
she knows I've got a hand
going to waste

the Austrian neighbour starts pounding her piano
and tonight she's not doing too bad

music fit for an old western
where nobody dances
because the piano sounds a little tipsy
but she's not doing too bad

she manages to capture a moment                  (8)
creates a scene she knows nothing about
and everything is strange and serene

then she sings and I smile
because she can't sing for shit
there's nothing to sing for anyway
but the sheer pleasure of not giving a fuck

Just a quick reminder, Lads and Ladies. Annon means, among other things 'Not published already'

That is all.   ;)

"we work an anonymous program"(frenemy of Bill W.)

Craic, sorry to be dense about the explaining of this here lark ya got spinning, but one question:
in terms of criting a work, does each poem get one response, or does each person get to response to each poem only once even if another person has already commented on a piece?...oh, simply can I respond to a piece that someone else already has?

sorry again, for dragging this understanding out

No worries LB,  I think it'd be best practice if one crit per poem. give each author the chance to fix their poem up (if needs) before judgment day. try and keep everyone on equal terms kinda thing.  
 

perfectly tone deaf:


first day of spring
I mean night
and the snow floats down in windless air
("I mean night"? Was there any need for that? "First night of spring" would have cut the unnecessary out. The rest is fine image-wise.)

the room is lazily lit by a lamp
and the dog keeps nagging me for affection
she knows I've got a hand
going to waste
(Here the word choice and phrasing is a bit tired; get creative. Spend a bit more time moving things about and re-writing, though the scene and mood is captured, it's a little tedious.)

the Austrian neighbour starts pounding her piano
and tonight she's not doing too bad

music fit for an old western
where nobody dances
because the piano sounds a little tipsy
but she's not doing too bad
(The last two lines here can go. They seem to rub against the two prior lines quite awkwardly, though I like the repetition in the last lines of the last two stanzas here. Keeps the tone.)

she manages to capture a moment
creates a scene she knows nothing about
and everything is strange and serene

then she sings and I smile
because she can't sing for shit
there's nothing to sing for anyway
but the sheer pleasure of not giving a fuck
(The tone shifts here, without warning. Not sure if the impact of the language helps with the resolve.)


Ok, personally you could have presented it a little tidier with some punctuation and line breaks, or just one would have helped. The reader wants to keep reading, and be able to feel some flow of narrative. You did achieve quite a relaxed read nonetheless, and I suppose the lack of punctuation could have helped with that.

You left the reader out in some places by laying all your cards out on the table, but the image of a western piano in some pub worked well for me. I got it, felt, understood it. Be careful to never leave the reader with nothing. They have to develop some kind of picture, to relate, or be evoked in some way.

My advice in general: don't be afraid to get rid of dead weight, always ask yourself: is that necessary? And every word is important; whether it's an 'and' or a 'but'. Always think: am I over-using the word? Can it be avoided? Often re-phrasing helps, and the use of the comma is highly under-rated. Good luck. I enjoyed it.

lepperochan said:


out of work  
a few hours early,  
   
at the bar.  
   
Between rounds two  
and three,  
knowing already  
   
I'll be up late tonite  
writing.  
   
Not sure on what,  
thinking I better stick to  
something authentic  
   
where I'm at    
what I feel  
   
which any drunk with a pen will tell ya  
is damned hard when words are involved.  
   
..............returning  
   
between rounds 6  
and "fuck you pussy for keeping track"  
is about as bad an idea  
and authentic as    
   
I am.  
(might as well roll the di)    
   
.......at home,  
between    
where the rounds can be counted  
and the world spins in the wrong direction  
is the worst time to discuss  
my first poem.  
   
I was fifteen  
in English class  
probably high                                   (7)
and certainly    
on edge.  
   
Teacher describes poetry;  
the abstract innards    
and such  
   
I rebel hard  
write out the tedium,  
the actual staleness of the classroom  
and await the disapproval  
I think I  
have earned.  
   
Never got the reward I wanted  
and to this day  
can describe  
exactly  
what  
   
twelve ounces attached    
to the right hand    
   
can offer to a psyche.




Well I found this to be an emotional and touching piece, and it would possibly have received more love from me had it come with a title.

I admit openly that I am not completely in awe of the spacing choice for the overall piece, it stumbled the read for me a little. That said I definitely felt that “………” was unnecessary in both places it was used. I’d go so far as to say that makes the writer come across as still fifteen yet the narration speaks of that, as if it was some time ago.

You may want to edit that word “tonight” before the comp closes.

That said I loved the imagery of having a drink in a bar and reminiscing of old times, writing and youth. I also enjoyed the way the story leads the reader into the first poem and describes that sort of beyond repair moment. I love the word “tedium” don’t often see it used.

I think there are a few words in the piece that you don’t need, almost overwrite if that makes sense… these are some….
[Thinking] I better stick to  
[and such]
[actual] staleness

Well done here, I enjoyed the write and will come back to read it again.

Good Luck & Blue skies @ ya

Cheers Al

That's 1,3,4,7,and 8  leaving 2, 5 and 6 needing a critique.