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Freedom of Speech and Censorship Part 2

cabcool
Guardian of Shadows
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Ahavati said:

Wonderful share, Cabcool. It's a very powerful poem. I just studied Red Summer over the weekend and posted a link here yesterday, I believe. There are so many things that have happened that I was completely ignorant about, such as Black Wall Street and Rosewood. Because history belongs to those in control of the dialogue.  

I did know about "boy" from the deep south.
What you looking at, 'boy'? was a term I heard often.


Thank you, Ahavati.

I have promised JB that I would share another poem by Claude McKay that is perhaps even more poignant than this one.

There are so many things that have happened that I was completely ignorant about, such as Black Wall Street and Rosewood.

O yes:  the destruction of Black Wall Street resembles so much the rape of African nations of their treasures that now sit in the British Museum and other museums!

I mention this only because the stealing of the treasures of a people is symbolic of the raping of a people's pride and identity, the demoralising of a people, the dispossession of a people, of material things as well as of mental capacity and social-emotional worth.

New developments
According to an article I read recently (I cannot verify the truth of it), last month, Ethiopia successfully retrieved one of its national religious treasures, the Axum Obelisk, a 1700-y-o stone obelisk looted by Italy nearly 70 years ago. This was considered one of the most important symbols of their identity.

Two years ago, a German museum also returned a Zimbabwean soapstone carved bird after 100 years.  This bird is a country emblem appearing on the national flag and currency.

These two traditional objects are among many artifacts that vanished from Africa during the colonial era.

Visit article site here:  https://www.nairaland.com/1801347/should-africa-reclaim-stolen-treasures

Ahavati
Tams
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Thank you for sharing, Cab. I think it's wonderful that these countries are reclaiming what is rightfully theirs.  Heritage is so important to the identity of a nation's history and people.  I look forward to more of McKay's poetry. I know of him through my study of Langston Hughes, and hope to feature him in one of our future Classic Corner competitions.  

As a white person I am experiencing and dealing with some guilt for being so ignorant; however, I am focusing on what I can learn and do now to promote equality.  

We really appreciate your participation in this thread.

Blackwolf
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Aksum Obelisk ( Axum )

Interestingly stolen by a very "facist regime"

"after the Italian invasion of Abyssinia, the former, Mussolini could not resist the temptation"

Yes , many treasures have been stolen ,
especially those with *sacred* context...

( I am not speaking "christian" , most especially ,
that does not enter my thoughtframe , nor should it )

Truly a rape of culture and *tribal heritage* and integrity...

Congratulations to Ethiopia , as it is now home...or will be...

cabcool
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Valeriyabeyond said:

Beautifully written Cab
I shouldn't put a burr in it's lining so I will be very careful He specifically said he had "chosen people" he was or is a respector of persons
Beautiful piece nonetheless less
You touch on some critical points
Much Love V


Thanks for adding just scrutiny to my post, Valeriyabeyond!  I believe the post will not buckle under your concerns.  First of all, you have commended -- which I appreciate.  I would only say, don't try to be too careful, because fallacy will wilt under scrutiny but truth will stand; moreover, every legitimate point of view must have its legitimate space, so I welcome yours.

You said: The God of the Bible did not feel that all lives matter he did not create everyone as equals...

The God of the Bible created ONE people through Adam and Eve, the first couple.  Enmity intervened when the offspring of Adam and Eve strayed from the principles of love and mercy that God required of all but did not impose upon them, because He also gave man the power of choice (to do good and to avoid evil).

If all lives did not matter to God, He would not have required the blood of Abel at the hands of his brother and made him a fugitive:   And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. --Genesis 4:11, 12

But why did God make the Jews His chosen people?
Jewishness is not a matter of genetics.  The people of the land of Judah are called Jews.  "Jew" is short for "Judean," meaning a resident of Judea.

Deuteronomy 7:7-9 tells us:   The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.

The Lord chose a people oppressed, enslaved, downtrodden, "the least of these," to be His people.  And the Jews were supposed to be the means through which God reached the other nations of the world.  Don't forget the most powerful scripture text that exists in St John 3:16:
 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever means ALL -- none excepted, none deprived, none preferred, none specially favoured, none unfairly discriminated against.

cabcool
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Forum Posts: 783

Synthesis and Re-Solution:  I Am My Brother’s Keeper!
[Part 3]


America
by Claude McKay

Although she feeds me bread of bitterness,
And sinks into my throat her tiger's tooth,
Stealing my breath of life, I will confess
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth!
Her vigor flows like tides into my blood,
Giving me strength erect against her hate.
Her bigness sweeps my being like a flood.
Yet as a rebel fronts a king in state,
I stand within her walls with not a shred
Of terror, malice, not a word of jeer.
Darkly I gaze into the days ahead,
And see her might and granite wonders there,
Beneath the touch of Time's unerring hand,
Like priceless treasures sinking in the sand.


(Bold emphases mine)

McKay found his footing during the Harlem Renaissance, a time during which African-American writers (and artists) found true self-expression.

Harlem Renaissance writers were typically born and raised in the USA; McKay, Jamaican-born and raised, came with a differing perspective, his poems mixing love and hate, pain and pleasure because he was able to see America for both its good and its bad.

It is both historical and eschatological that Mckay refers to the chokehold that strangulated George Floyd! And sinks into my throat her tiger's tooth,
Stealing my breath of life


And yet his love for the country of wonders and treasures causes him not to feel 'a shred/Of terror, malice,' while abiding in this 'cultured hell' that 'feeds...bread of bitterness.'

Valeriyabeyond
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Dangerous Mind
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cabcool said:

Whosoever means ALL -- none excepted, none deprived, none preferred, none specially favoured, none unfairly discriminated against.


Beautiful response Cab
Appreciated

SweetKittyCat5
Tyrant of Words
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A Black Man's Speech To A White Man In America

I'm not as educated, sir, as thee,
But God Almighty's sun I see,
And you may treat me very hard for this,
But I His Holy Hand shall kiss.
I have no nation, none as great as yours
That kills and grabs beyond the stores;
I have no selfish laws to keep men down
And then upon them ever frown.
You have the wealth of land and sea and sky,
You boast as if you'd never die:
How great you are, my mighty earthly king,
So great that I must tribute bring!
But, sir, one day you'll surely be in hell,
And then a story I will tell;
As Dives asked for quenching water then,
So will you all from that hot pen.
Your gilded pride is much in this your day
It's time for you to gather bay
And so you feed upon my sorry life,
And rob me of my home and wife.
My lands you say are yours, and minerals too,
How sweet it is, dear sir, to you!
You kick me down and lash me on my back,
And when I cry there's one more whack.
But one good day will surely come for me,
When God of men will speak to thee,
And then the awful thunder clap will tell,
How far down you will be in Hell.

Marcus Mosiah Garvey


The Black Woman

Black queen of beauty, thou hast given color to the world!
Among other women thou art royal and the fairest!
Like the brightest of jewels in the regal diadem,
Shin'st thou, Goddess of Africa, Nature's purest emblem!

Black men worship at thy virginal shrine of truest love,
Because in thine eyes are virtue's steady and holy mark,
As we see in no other, clothed in silk or fine linen,
From ancient Venus, the Goddess, to mythical Helen.

When Africa stood at the head of the elder nations,
The Gods used to travel from foreign lands to look at thee:
On couch of costly Eastern materials, all perfumed,
Reclined thee, as in thy path flow'rs were strewn-
sweetest that bloomed.

Thy transcendent marvelous beauty made the whole world mad,
Bringing Solomon to tears as he viewed thy comeliness;
Anthony and the elder Caesars wept at thy royal feet,
Preferring death than to leave thy presence, their foes to meet.

You, in all ages, have attracted the adoring world,
And caused many a bloody banner to be unfurled:
You have sat upon exalted and lofty eminence,
To see a world fight in your ancient African defense.

Today you have been dethroned, through the weakness of your men,
While, in frenzy, those who of yore craved your smiles and your hand-
Those who were all monsters and could not with love approach you-
Have insulted your pride and now attack your good virtue.

Because of disunion you became mother of the world,
Giving tinge of robust color to five continents,
Making a greater world of millions of colored races,
Whose claim to beauty is reflected through our black faces.

From the handsome Indian to European brunette,
There is a claim for that credit of their sunny beauty
That no one can e'er to take from thee, 0 Queen of all
women

Who have borne trials and troubles and racial burden.
Once more we shall, in Africa, fight and conquer for you,
Restoring the pearly crown that proud Queen Sheba did wear:
Yea, it may mean blood, it may mean death; but still we shall fight,

Bearing our banners to Vict'ry, men of Afric's might.
Superior Angels look like you in Heaven above,
For thou art fairest, queen of the seasons, queen of our love:
No condition shall make us ever in life desert thee,
Sweet Goddess of the ever green land and placid blue sea.

Marcus Mosiah Garvey





Blackwolf
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We all have "everlasting life" if we choose ,
whether we believe in a particular "god" , or not...

Further , Adam and Eve is a *story* , the idea of
the *serpent* is a story , they are all stories ,
designed to trick people into acting in a particular
fashion , designed by those who want to be a
ruling elite...

It does not matter what world path you choose...

It is up to each of us to choose the path of being
inclusive...religious belief , has no place in that...

I myself , believe in many gods and goddesses ,
and I believe in forces of upper world , middle world ,
and underworld , and they all have their place of balance ,
each one of them...

We do not have to believe in any particular god , goddess ,
race , or people , and that only serves to incite division...

So , just making it clear , in this thread...

It is ***NOT*** about particular religious beliefs...

That well never unite *all* of us...

It *is* about Freedom Of Speech And Censorship...

I am *not* seeking to censor anyone , nor
to control the speech...however , by bringing *religion* in...

And *not* mentioning , or embracing *tradition* , just as
valuable , and important , including belief in what some
people would discriminate against as "dark gods" , is
discriminatory...

So , just asking :

Is this a religious thread ?

Or a politically oriented one at it's base ?

If it is religious based as well , just be
ready for my religion to be brought in...

Proud Pagan...;)

Ahavati
Tams
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BW, it's important to note that it was Val who addressed Cab regarding the bible. Cab was merely responding. Cab is a Christian, therefore responded according to his belief.

No one has challenged your personal beliefs. If someone were to address you regarding Paganism, no doubt you would respond with the same articulate knowledge. Furthermore, I have no doubt Cabcool wouldn't challenge that response.

Lastly, this is a Freedom of Speech thread with an emphasis on racism and race relations.  Let's respect each person's personal belief, and please not turn this into a religious debate.

Thank you.

Ahavati
Tams
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cabcool said:Synthesis and Re-Solution:  I Am My Brother’s Keeper!
[Part 3]


America
by Claude McKay

Although she feeds me bread of bitterness,
And sinks into my throat her tiger's tooth,
Stealing my breath of life, I will confess
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth!
Her vigor flows like tides into my blood,
Giving me strength erect against her hate.
Her bigness sweeps my being like a flood.
Yet as a rebel fronts a king in state,
I stand within her walls with not a shred
Of terror, malice, not a word of jeer.
Darkly I gaze into the days ahead,
And see her might and granite wonders there,
Beneath the touch of Time's unerring hand,
Like priceless treasures sinking in the sand.


(Bold emphases mine)

McKay found his footing during the Harlem Renaissance, a time during which African-American writers (and artists) found true self-expression.

Harlem Renaissance writers were typically born and raised in the USA; McKay, Jamaican-born and raised, came with a differing perspective, his poems mixing love and hate, pain and pleasure because he was able to see America for both its good and its bad.

It is both historical and eschatological that Mckay refers to the chokehold that strangulated George Floyd!

And yet his love for the country of wonders and treasures causes him not to feel 'a shred/Of terror, malice,' while abiding in this 'cultured hell' that 'feeds...bread of bitterness.'


A beautiful share. Cabcool.  Thank you for the poem and history.  The summation is riddled with irony regarding Floyd's death.

Blackwolf
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By the way , Cabcool , Mckay knew the Code I refer to and teach ;

We have a column of eight symbols in Tradition...

The column has a number value , 603...

The top two symbols :

Letter value of first symbol , which can be drawn
like a tiger's fang , is TH...

Next symbol down , is a G letter value , pronounced
as Yer , or Yar...

Thus we attain TH - G'yar , or *tiger*...

Yet , if I take the value of the first symbol which is One ,
and makes the shape of the fang , and take English to
Runic , for one word , and Hebrew value for their word
for *tooth* , then :

Tiger = 259

Tooth ( Fang ) = 350

That is 609 , then the value of One for the symbol for shape = 610

Now our symbol for the meaning :

"Possible Need For Sacrifice" = 7

603 + 7 = 610

Whereas :

It Will Be = 30

Thief = 55

Coming = 3

+

Breath = 214

Of = 150

Life = 157

= 603

So , just knew the Code...;)

And used it...many do , including in our time , the Five Percenters...


Blackwolf
I.M.Blackwolf
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Ahavati said:BW, it's important to note that it was Val who addressed Cab regarding the bible. Cab was merely responding. Cab is a Christian, therefore responded according to his belief.

No one has challenged your personal beliefs. If someone were to address you regarding Paganism, no doubt you would respond with the same articulate knowledge. Furthermore, I have no doubt Cabcool wouldn't challenge that response.

Lastly, this is a Freedom of Speech thread with an emphasis on racism and race relations.  Let's respect each person's personal belief, and please not turn this into a religious debate.

Thank you.


Thank you for qualifying...

I was writing my last post here , as you were posting...

I hope Cabcool and others can appreciate it...

( including , of course , you )

Ahavati
Tams
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Forum Posts: 16906

I have no doubt Cabcool respects open dialogue and the knowledge that accompanies it.  I know I do, so thank you. I just really didn't want to see the discussion spiral into a religious debate, when Cabcool was just answering Val's response to him.

Ahavati
Tams
Tyrant of Words
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Joined 11th Apr 2015
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SweetKittyCat5 said:A Black Man's Speech To A White Man In America

I'm not as educated, sir, as thee,
But God Almighty's sun I see,
And you may treat me very hard for this,
But I His Holy Hand shall kiss.
I have no nation, none as great as yours
That kills and grabs beyond the stores;
I have no selfish laws to keep men down
And then upon them ever frown.
You have the wealth of land and sea and sky,
You boast as if you'd never die:
How great you are, my mighty earthly king,
So great that I must tribute bring!
But, sir, one day you'll surely be in hell,
And then a story I will tell;
As Dives asked for quenching water then,
So will you all from that hot pen.
Your gilded pride is much in this your day
It's time for you to gather bay
And so you feed upon my sorry life,
And rob me of my home and wife.
My lands you say are yours, and minerals too,
How sweet it is, dear sir, to you!
You kick me down and lash me on my back,
And when I cry there's one more whack.
But one good day will surely come for me,
When God of men will speak to thee,
And then the awful thunder clap will tell,
How far down you will be in Hell.

Marcus Mosiah Garvey


The Black Woman

Black queen of beauty, thou hast given color to the world!
Among other women thou art royal and the fairest!
Like the brightest of jewels in the regal diadem,
Shin'st thou, Goddess of Africa, Nature's purest emblem!

Black men worship at thy virginal shrine of truest love,
Because in thine eyes are virtue's steady and holy mark,
As we see in no other, clothed in silk or fine linen,
From ancient Venus, the Goddess, to mythical Helen.

When Africa stood at the head of the elder nations,
The Gods used to travel from foreign lands to look at thee:
On couch of costly Eastern materials, all perfumed,
Reclined thee, as in thy path flow'rs were strewn-
sweetest that bloomed.

Thy transcendent marvelous beauty made the whole world mad,
Bringing Solomon to tears as he viewed thy comeliness;
Anthony and the elder Caesars wept at thy royal feet,
Preferring death than to leave thy presence, their foes to meet.

You, in all ages, have attracted the adoring world,
And caused many a bloody banner to be unfurled:
You have sat upon exalted and lofty eminence,
To see a world fight in your ancient African defense.

Today you have been dethroned, through the weakness of your men,
While, in frenzy, those who of yore craved your smiles and your hand-
Those who were all monsters and could not with love approach you-
Have insulted your pride and now attack your good virtue.

Because of disunion you became mother of the world,
Giving tinge of robust color to five continents,
Making a greater world of millions of colored races,
Whose claim to beauty is reflected through our black faces.

From the handsome Indian to European brunette,
There is a claim for that credit of their sunny beauty
That no one can e'er to take from thee, 0 Queen of all
women

Who have borne trials and troubles and racial burden.
Once more we shall, in Africa, fight and conquer for you,
Restoring the pearly crown that proud Queen Sheba did wear:
Yea, it may mean blood, it may mean death; but still we shall fight,

Bearing our banners to Vict'ry, men of Afric's might.
Superior Angels look like you in Heaven above,
For thou art fairest, queen of the seasons, queen of our love:
No condition shall make us ever in life desert thee,
Sweet Goddess of the ever green land and placid blue sea.

Marcus Mosiah Garvey


Thank you, SKC, for sharing these with us.  I'll look up the poet!

📝❤

Valeriyabeyond
Dhyana
Dangerous Mind
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Joined 3rd May 2020
Forum Posts: 2668

Ahavati said--  BW, it's important to note that it was Val who addressed Cab regarding the bible. Cab was merely responding. Cab is a Christian, therefore responded according to his belief.

Absolutely he did with profound beauty eloquence and an obvious force of knowledge behind his belief.
Respectfully left no room for argument
A gold plated rebuttal CabCool
Much Love V

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