DON'T LET RESULTS DISHEARTEN YOU.

"Christian faith is ease not anguish".    
   
   
Sorry, but no.  True belief in Jesus entails the willingness to lay down one's life for him and obligates a believer to make some very hard and costly existential choice including refusing to use violence in a righteous cause or giving one's allegiance to "Caeser".      
   
"He would like us to be warriors,    
to defend His creeds and teachings."    
   
Please show me where in the Gospels Jesus says he wants "us" to be warriors.    
   
"He was not afraid of fighting    
even when it meant His torture."    
   
Did he "contend in battle or physical combat or strive to overcome a person by blows or weapons" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fight) when he was arrested?  Did he fight or engage in forcible resistance to those who scourged or crucified him.?  Did he ever urge his disciples to use force or violence against those who opposed them, let alone sought to do them harm?    
   
Please show me biblical passages that substantiate your claims that Jesus resisted, let alone used force or violence against his torturers.    
   
Sorry, but what you claim here is likely not only to make a biblically informed reader to say that you don't know what you are talking about, but take him or her right out of your submission and judge it not worthy of being read.    
 

Dear Baldwin,
1- Jesus said He sent His disciples as lambs among wolves, and asked them to be as wise as snakes. Why ? Isn't it to defend themselves. Isn't defence a kind of war?
2- Isn't a martyr a kind o warrior?
3- Yes, He contended in His spiritual way.
4- Jesus is God. He loves all people , and He came to earth to sacrifice Himself and through sacrificing Himself, He freed all people from the torture of sin, and  showed  them the happiness that the light of heaven could create in them.

I asked you to provide me with texts from the Gospels where Jesus explicitly says that he wants “us” to be “warriors”, i.e.,  persons who have training, experience, and skill in using organized violence against enemies to secure certain ends and are ready to do so..

Your response to this request was:

“Dear Baldwin,

1- Jesus said He sent His disciples as lambs among wolves, and asked them to be as wise as snakes. “

You’ve left out a significant portion of Matt. 10:16  This text reports Jesus to have said “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents **and innocent as doves**.”  Using selective quotation to make a case is the mark of someone whose case is extremely weak, if not totally invalid.


“Why ? Isn't it to defend themselves.”

No.

First of all, there is nothing within it that is a call to anyone, let alone “us”,  be a warrior.  Nor does it show Jesus calling his disciples to defend themselves. It’s just the opposite.

For if you had looked at the context in which Matt. 10:16 occurs, you would have known how much the inference that you draw from your selective (and therefore underhanded) quotation of Matt: 10:16  is unsustainable as well as a wholesale distortion of the meaning of the text and an inexcusable display of your ignorance of matters biblical and what biblical texts actually say.

Here is that text’s context.

“Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles
5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. 9 Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. 11 And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. 12 As you enter the house, greet it. 13 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. 15 Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Persecution Will Come
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

“2- Isn't a martyr a kind o[sic] warrior?”

Not of the violent, death dealing kind. Show me NT texts in which Christian martyrs are said, let alone commanded to use violence, or depicted as engaging  in violence, against, let alone are shown as seeking to injure or kill,  those who martyred them

And your reply to my requests to show where the NT says that Jesus used physical force or deadly weapons to overcome those who arrested him in Gethsemane and engaged in physically forcible resistance to those who scourged or crucified him, namely, “He contended [with them} in His spiritual way” is an admission that there are no such NT texts.  In fact, there are no Gospel texts that speak of Jesus contending with his arresters, floggers, and crucifiers in a “spiritual” way, whatever that might have been.

And your response to my request for you to   show me biblical passages that substantiate your claims that Jesus resisted, let alone used force or violence against his torturers to do so., namely, that

“Jesus is God. He loves all people , and He came to earth to sacrifice Himself and through sacrificing Himself, He freed all people from the torture of sin, and  showed  them the happiness that the light of heaven could create in them.”

indicates, given that it is a red herring,  that you know of no such texts. Otherwise, you would have produced them.

And BTW, your claim about what Jesus did for people is one that is also made about the Buddha whose followers have found it through their demonstrable achievement of nirvana, to be true.

Dear Baldwin,
All the points from THE NEW TESTAMENT, which you have mentioned, support my viewpoints that the Christians should be warriors, and they should struggle, but the kind of war and struggle are inner and spiritual, the thing that you don't understand. J.Z.

So you admit that the NT never presents Jesus as calling his disciples, let alone "us", to use violence to further his cause or enjoined them (or "us") to be men of violence"warriors"  when facing enemies who were/are intent to do them (or "us") physical harm?

Jesus Christ has saved us from all kinds of spiritual tortures which are much harder than the physical ones. Moreover, we must take into consideration the eternal life. Jesus has freed us and asked us to think after considering the aforementioned points.

This is not an answer to my question.  I didn't ask about what "tortures" Jesus freed us from.  I asked whether you admit that the NT nowhere says that Jesus used violence against his enemies to do so and called his disciples (let alone us") to do likewise.

No, He didn't. You know that very well, and you know my answer, so why are asking?

Because the implication of what you assert in your submission -- especially that Jesus  "... was not afraid of fighting even when it meant His torture" --  is otherwise,  given that the primary meaning of fighting is exchanging punches or taking up death-dealing weapons against an opponent.

Don't you know the spiritual fighting and torture are much harder than the physical one, or perhaps you have no experience in such matters?

"Don't you know the spiritual fighting and torture are much harder than the physical one ..."

Even if this is the case (what is your proof that it is?),  you nowhere spoke about Jesus engaging in "spiritual" fighting.  

"or perhaps you have no experience in such matters?"

Have you ever been sentenced to prison for your beliefs?

In any case, the fact that I might not have had any experience in such matters has no bearing upon the fact that you did not say that the type of fighting Jeus engaged in was "spiritual" let alone that the NT shows that the things Jesus had to, and did,  fight against (contend with) were "spiritual" what  rather than opposition from men.  
 

Does not your assertion that Jesus is God  involve you in absurdities when you note that:  
   
"He was counting on His Master,  
Who conferred on Him great power."  
   
but if failure bled His forehead,  
He would say," l did my utmost;  
the results come from my Father.""  
   
since, unless you are a tritheist,  you are saying that Jesus was counting on himself to confer upon himself great power (which, presumably,  he did not have) at the time of his expectation),  and that he expected things that would overcome his failure to do the things his "perfection" should have allowed him to do to come from himself?  
   
And does not your assertion that "Christ could do what was perfection" rule out any possibility that Jesus could fail in any way, let alone experience failure or have it "bleed his head" or be in need of his "Father"/himself to rescue him from it or bring forth the results that he failed to  achieve?

Baldwin, l think it is useless to answer you. You are a person who likes to talk a lot without approaching any result. You are fond of arguing just for the sake of argument. It's a waste of time to answer you.

In other words, you are unable to respond truthfully and admit that what you write about Jesus in this piece is contains absurd assertions.

And I have approached, not to mention achieved,  namely, results:  that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to matters biblical or Christological.  

Please tell me this:  do you have any formal training in New Testament studies and in the history and development of Christology from the first through the fourth centuries AD that underlies your claims about who Jesus is and what he did?  Or are your claims based in dogmas that were developed in the 4th and 5th centuries?

In other words, why should anyone think that you know what you are talking about when it comes to matters biblical, theological, and Christological and are not writing about things that your religious tradition tells you that the Bible testifies to.

Baldwin, It's useless; however long we whip water, it remains water.J.Z.

Do you have any formal training in biblical studies, theology, church history, and the Christological controversies of the 4th and 5 centuries that could be appealed to as evince that you know what you are talking about when you speak about what the NT says and the development of Christology in the first 5 centuries of Christianity?  
 
If not, please tell me and other readers of DUP  why it is that anyone here should think or believe that you know what you are talking about when you write on these matters.

And however long you try to defend poor writing and bad theology and misinterpretation/misuse of NT texts, poor writing, bad theology, and misinterpretation/misuse of NT texts remain.

"He was counting on His Master,"  
 
Who is/was Jesus' master"?

"the results come from my Father."

And who is the Father from whom results come?

"He would like us to be warriors,  
to defend His creeds and teachings"  
   
Jesus had no creeds.  The earliest creed (in Romans)  was not "authored" by Jesus and was not something he proclaimed or taught anyone to recite.  And all of the classic Christian creeds -- the Apostles Creed, the Nicean (Nicea-Constantinapolitan), Athanasian, and Chalcedonian creeds,  as well as tte Creed of Aristides of Athens, the Old Roman Symbol or Old Roman Creed, the Creed of Cyprian of Carthage, the Deir Balyzeh Papyrus, the Arian Creeds and Creeds of Euzoius, and the Creed of Alexander of Alexandria, date from the second century onwards.  
   
And the way that Jesus wanted his disciples to defend his teachings -- including how his followers were to love one's enemies and reject all forms of violence -- was to live them, make them public and biographical facts.  It wasn't until the second century that Christian apologists appeared and mounted written arguments for the truth of orthodox Christianity and the heretical nature of the Gnostic Christianity that you accept as true..

Hello 👋

Although we are not of the same belief system, I’ve always appreciated reading other people’s expressions of faith. It feels like a very personal thing to do, so thank you for sharing the things that are clearly important to you.

Have a lovely day

-M

Very dear Missy,
I consider you a very dear friend to me because you are so kind and it is easy to talk to you. You don't get angry so easily like some people. Actually, talking about religious belief is personal, but l'd love to make it contagious, especially to those whom l like because it is a hidden cause to happiness to all people, specially the deep thinkers like you. J.Z.