deepundergroundpoetry.com
MACBETH AND BLOOD
MACBETH AND BLOOD
Poor Macbeth, l know what you'd gone through
ere you met your death in that last fight.
You were sorry for the men you'd killed
and did not want a new man to add.
Looking at your hands, you saw the blood
you had shed in previous fights you'd had.
All the oceans' water could not clean.
You decided to be killed and slain.
So profound you were with what you thought.
You repent. Would Jesus shrive your crimes?
Where are we with our sins, my Lord?
Shall we yield and die, or pray and live?
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
Poor Macbeth, l know what you'd gone through
ere you met your death in that last fight.
You were sorry for the men you'd killed
and did not want a new man to add.
Looking at your hands, you saw the blood
you had shed in previous fights you'd had.
All the oceans' water could not clean.
You decided to be killed and slain.
So profound you were with what you thought.
You repent. Would Jesus shrive your crimes?
Where are we with our sins, my Lord?
Shall we yield and die, or pray and live?
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
Published 27th Jan 2020
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Where is it ever said MacBeth repented of
the deaths he brought
to scores of “men”
or sought with his last breath
to be forgiven by
Lord Jesus for a sin or sins
that he acknowledged as
hard lying on his head?
The only blood he felt
could never from his hands
be washed away
was what he made poor Duncan shed.
Was he not eager to have Banquo slain?
And didn’t he proclaim,
without a sense of guilt, a fierce intent
to be the victor in his duel with foe MacDuff
when, fury led,
he damned the man who’d cry out “hold! Enough!”?
Did he not wish, and ardently,
without remorse,
to see all those
who laid their siege to Dunsinane
be slain and listed well among the dead?
You once again display the fact
you know so little of
the things you write about.
Poor Shakespeare’s turning in
his grave to hear you
all your nonsense spout.
the deaths he brought
to scores of “men”
or sought with his last breath
to be forgiven by
Lord Jesus for a sin or sins
that he acknowledged as
hard lying on his head?
The only blood he felt
could never from his hands
be washed away
was what he made poor Duncan shed.
Was he not eager to have Banquo slain?
And didn’t he proclaim,
without a sense of guilt, a fierce intent
to be the victor in his duel with foe MacDuff
when, fury led,
he damned the man who’d cry out “hold! Enough!”?
Did he not wish, and ardently,
without remorse,
to see all those
who laid their siege to Dunsinane
be slain and listed well among the dead?
You once again display the fact
you know so little of
the things you write about.
Poor Shakespeare’s turning in
his grave to hear you
all your nonsense spout.
All the water of the oceans can't clean my hands from the blood on them . Doesn't that mean he is sorry for shedding this blood. Do you think he has a heart made of stone. I think you don't understand Shakespeare.
27th Jan 2020 7:50pm
You've misquoted Shakespeare to make your point . What Macbeth says is "Will all great Neptune’s ocean wash **this** blood/Clean from my hand?". So I'm not the one who doesn't seem to understand Shakespeare.
The referent here is, as I noted, **only to Duncan's blood**. And whether MacBeth does or does not have a heart of stone is not the issue. The issue -- which you have failed to address -- is whether Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan.
You are surmising that he would have done so given that he felt guilty over Duncan's death. But unless you can produce texts from Macbeth that actually show or state this, your surmise is wholly unfounded.
https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/how-does-macbeth-change-after-murder-duncan-509
The referent here is, as I noted, **only to Duncan's blood**. And whether MacBeth does or does not have a heart of stone is not the issue. The issue -- which you have failed to address -- is whether Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan.
You are surmising that he would have done so given that he felt guilty over Duncan's death. But unless you can produce texts from Macbeth that actually show or state this, your surmise is wholly unfounded.
https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/how-does-macbeth-change-after-murder-duncan-509
I did not quote anything or anybody. Why do you suppose l did. I meant to say that he was sorry and that's what you say. Why do you always suppose things as you like just to prove your point?
So you did not mean to claim that "All the water of the oceans can't clean my hands from the blood on them." is what Shakespeare presents MacBeth as saying? I supposed you did because you yourself set it within what MacBeth says at Act 2 scene 2 line 60 of the play. If not, how can you use it as evidence that MacBeth felt guilty for anything, let alone was sorry for something he had done?
And I nowhere said that Macbeth was sorry for taking men's lives or that what he is presented as saying about Duncan's blood shows that he was. Misrepresenting things I said in order to claim I agree with you shows that you have no dignity when it comes to arguing. The use of red herrings is something done by people who cannot make their case.
In any event, you are once again dodging a request of mine -- in this case for you to produce evidence that supports your claim that Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan and that you know what you are talking about when you claim that according to Shakespeare Macbeth had qualms during and at the end of his life about adding to the tally of the number of lives he had taken.
And I nowhere said that Macbeth was sorry for taking men's lives or that what he is presented as saying about Duncan's blood shows that he was. Misrepresenting things I said in order to claim I agree with you shows that you have no dignity when it comes to arguing. The use of red herrings is something done by people who cannot make their case.
In any event, you are once again dodging a request of mine -- in this case for you to produce evidence that supports your claim that Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan and that you know what you are talking about when you claim that according to Shakespeare Macbeth had qualms during and at the end of his life about adding to the tally of the number of lives he had taken.
27th Jan 2020 9:28pm
I'll dodge your question again to ask you what your function among this excellent group of poets is. You only try to comment and criticise. Your page is empty of any kind of poems. What are you doing here?
I thought you said that you were not a critic? Who are you then to say that what's on my page is not poetry?
And if it's not, how do you explain that members of the "excellent group of poets" here have thought otherwise -- indeed, have commended them as good examples of the craft? Or are they, in your self admitted worthless opinion, not members of the group you speak of and in your mind should not be attributed with any true ability to see what's poetry and what is not?
Come on. We both know that you are (still) dodging my questions because you don't want to admit that there is no evidence in MacBeth that would substantiate your claims and therefore that you really don't know what you are talking about.
As for what I'm doing here, it's partly to give you what you say you want, i.e. honest criticism of your ability to write well. But what you really want is adulation and for your ego to be stroked.
It's not my fault that you can't abide anyone or anything that shows you to not have the poetic talent that you claim is yours and that demonstrates with actual argument and evidence that you are not the facile writer that you think you are.
And now that I've answered your question, will you cease dodging mine? Or will you continue to indulge in petulance?
My money is on the latter option. And the reason for this is that you are unable to ever admit that you are wrong in your claims, let alone say openly what is quite apparent in your stooping to use of hominems instead of mounting counter arguments in your responses to criticism, namely, that you lack the skills and knowledge necessary to demonstrate that criticisms mounted against the way you write and how false or silly or ill informed the claims you make within them all too often are have no basis in fact.
But I'll ask again in the (rather forlorn) hope that you'll show some the fortitude requisite to provide evidence from the text of Macbeth that he felt guilty for the deaths of the men he killed or arranged to kill before and after his murder of Duncan and that he was resolved to never take any other mans life, even if it meant bringing on his own death.
It's my claim that there isn't any. Show me that I'm wrong.
And if it's not, how do you explain that members of the "excellent group of poets" here have thought otherwise -- indeed, have commended them as good examples of the craft? Or are they, in your self admitted worthless opinion, not members of the group you speak of and in your mind should not be attributed with any true ability to see what's poetry and what is not?
Come on. We both know that you are (still) dodging my questions because you don't want to admit that there is no evidence in MacBeth that would substantiate your claims and therefore that you really don't know what you are talking about.
As for what I'm doing here, it's partly to give you what you say you want, i.e. honest criticism of your ability to write well. But what you really want is adulation and for your ego to be stroked.
It's not my fault that you can't abide anyone or anything that shows you to not have the poetic talent that you claim is yours and that demonstrates with actual argument and evidence that you are not the facile writer that you think you are.
And now that I've answered your question, will you cease dodging mine? Or will you continue to indulge in petulance?
My money is on the latter option. And the reason for this is that you are unable to ever admit that you are wrong in your claims, let alone say openly what is quite apparent in your stooping to use of hominems instead of mounting counter arguments in your responses to criticism, namely, that you lack the skills and knowledge necessary to demonstrate that criticisms mounted against the way you write and how false or silly or ill informed the claims you make within them all too often are have no basis in fact.
But I'll ask again in the (rather forlorn) hope that you'll show some the fortitude requisite to provide evidence from the text of Macbeth that he felt guilty for the deaths of the men he killed or arranged to kill before and after his murder of Duncan and that he was resolved to never take any other mans life, even if it meant bringing on his own death.
It's my claim that there isn't any. Show me that I'm wrong.
27th Jan 2020 9:30pm
BTW, contrary to your claim, Macbeth does NOT decide to be killed, let alone redundantly ("killed AND slain??). He wants to preserve his life by killing his attacker.
Have you actually read the play? Can you point me to where in the text Macbeth decides to let his life be taken or refuses to put up a fight against his being slain?
Have you actually read the play? Can you point me to where in the text Macbeth decides to let his life be taken or refuses to put up a fight against his being slain?
27th Jan 2020 9:42pm
Yes, l have read the play together with most of Shakespeare's plays and poetry, but l am not ready to waste my time just to answer questions as we did in exams. I take the spirit of what l read, and leave wasting time to you.
But you **will** waste your (and a reader's) time time in posting and defending things that show that you don't know what you are talking about, and then in response to criticisms of what you post, spending time writing up red herrings, dodges, and ad hominems when you could have been demonstrating that what has been said about the way you write or the questions that have been asked about the comprehensibility of, and truthfulness of the assertions made in, what you have write about is off the mark.
But have I been wasting time in writing what I have written? Perhaps I have, since I've been assuming all along that you would be one who was not so tied up in an evaluation of himself as someone e who could never write poorly that he would do the responsible thing that a good writer would do and show just how and why criticisms leveled against his work were off base if he thought they were.
But have I been wasting time in writing what I have written? Perhaps I have, since I've been assuming all along that you would be one who was not so tied up in an evaluation of himself as someone e who could never write poorly that he would do the responsible thing that a good writer would do and show just how and why criticisms leveled against his work were off base if he thought they were.
"Yes, l have read the play together with most of Shakespeare's plays and poetry, "
The it should have been easy for you, and hardly a waste of time, to produce texts from MacBeth that show he felt guilty and remorseful and in need of forgiveness from Jesus for killing the men he had slain before he murdered Duncan and for those he intended to slay after that event, let alone that he did not want to defend himself from being killed.
The fact that you engaged in petulance and once again played the aggrieved poet card instead of doing shows that you knew that there were no such texts but did not want to admit that you were way off base to present MacBeth as feeling what you claimed he felt and had written poorly.
The it should have been easy for you, and hardly a waste of time, to produce texts from MacBeth that show he felt guilty and remorseful and in need of forgiveness from Jesus for killing the men he had slain before he murdered Duncan and for those he intended to slay after that event, let alone that he did not want to defend himself from being killed.
The fact that you engaged in petulance and once again played the aggrieved poet card instead of doing shows that you knew that there were no such texts but did not want to admit that you were way off base to present MacBeth as feeling what you claimed he felt and had written poorly.
Let's cut to the chase with four "yes" or "no" question (i.e., questions that you can't back off from answering because it would take time to do so):
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth, especially in Act 5 (which ends up with MacBeth's last fight) in which Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, sorry about, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan. Yes or no.
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth that depict Macbeth having qualms during and at the end of his life about adding to the tally of the number of lives he had taken? Yes or no.
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth that show that towards the end of his life and as Dunsinane is being attacked, MacBeth decides to be killed? Yes or no.
If your answers to these questions are "no" then isn't it the case that your claims about what went on in MacBeth's mind "ere" he fought his last fight are groundless and have the potential for making a reader think that you don't know what you are talking about? Yes or no.
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth, especially in Act 5 (which ends up with MacBeth's last fight) in which Shakespeare depicts MacBeth as feeling guilty over, sorry about, and confessedly in need of absolution from Jesus for, the deaths of anyone that he caused or was intent to cause before or after he murdered Duncan. Yes or no.
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth that depict Macbeth having qualms during and at the end of his life about adding to the tally of the number of lives he had taken? Yes or no.
Are there any texts in Shakespeare's MacBeth that show that towards the end of his life and as Dunsinane is being attacked, MacBeth decides to be killed? Yes or no.
If your answers to these questions are "no" then isn't it the case that your claims about what went on in MacBeth's mind "ere" he fought his last fight are groundless and have the potential for making a reader think that you don't know what you are talking about? Yes or no.
29th Jan 2020 5:59pm
Well, a day has passed since I put the yes or no questions above to you, and (as expected) you haven't answered them. You've given me good grounds for saying why this is the case.
1. If you had said yes to them (which wouldn't have taken up more than a few seconds of your time), you have obliged yourself to produce evidence in support of your affirmations -- which you could not do because there isn't any.
If you had said no to them (which also wouldn't have taken much time), you'd then be admitting that you really didn't know what you were talking about when you made your claims about what MacBeth's mental state was before and as he came to his battle with MacDuff and that your piece was something that would be good reason for readers to see you as someone who spouts nonsense just as long as he produces pices that are set out in rhymes.
Cue the ad hominem dodges.
1. If you had said yes to them (which wouldn't have taken up more than a few seconds of your time), you have obliged yourself to produce evidence in support of your affirmations -- which you could not do because there isn't any.
If you had said no to them (which also wouldn't have taken much time), you'd then be admitting that you really didn't know what you were talking about when you made your claims about what MacBeth's mental state was before and as he came to his battle with MacDuff and that your piece was something that would be good reason for readers to see you as someone who spouts nonsense just as long as he produces pices that are set out in rhymes.
Cue the ad hominem dodges.
