deepundergroundpoetry.com
Females on a podium, Men in the closet
©vessa07DUP2016
All Rights Reserved
“The friendship between a man and a woman which does not lead to marriage or desire for marriage may be a life-long experience of the greatest value to themselves and to all their circle of acquaintances; but for this type of friendship both a rare man and a rare woman are needed. Perhaps it should be added that either the man or the woman thus deeply bound in lifelong friendship who seeks marriage must find a still rarer man or woman to wed, to make such three cornered comradeships a permanent success.” Anna Garlin Spencer
Some women are judged in modern society for having more male friends than female friends, it is claimed that they must be a boy to have guy friends and not allow those friendships to become sexual ones. Perhaps there is truth in this because when I compare myself to most women I definitely see a difference in the way that we think and the things that we consider to be important. Despite this passing thought, however, I intend to advocate that it is healthy for men and women to have friendships with members of the opposite sex. It allows men to become emotionally mature, more tolerant, and helps them develop intellectually; and it allows women to have intellectual stimulus, gain a sense of independence, and allows them to become less insecure. I do believe that this is only successful if both members are happily married because even if one of them is single the temptation to cross the line is too high.
We understand ourselves in relation to other people, therefore, we provide opportunities for others to define themselves just as others help us in defining ourselves. The one area that women commonly lack in their female-female relationships is time on self-reflection, as naturally self-sacrificing we spend most of the time helping others with their issues and less time focusing on our needs. Furthermore, we tend to migrate towards other females who have problems that we can help fix. The one area that males lack in their male-male friendships is the ability to develop self-identity. The majority of the time that males get together they spend it in meaningless activity that requires no talking, or engaging in and when they do speak it is usually about "male-appropriate" topics like chicks, working out, or their jobs. In both situations the male and female receive fulfillment but in neither case do they develop good relationships with others or complete self-satisfaction.
Beyond the female-female and male-male friendships the third type is the husband-wife friendship. It is highly unlikely, unless you are part of the 3% of the population who has married a friend, that your relationship with your husband or wife will yield a strong friendship. For the majority of these relationships you share a physical bond and an intimacy level that does not nor should exist with any other person, however, you are focused on the other person's needs so much and the self disappears amidst a haze of routine. You get to the point where your relationship with your spouse becomes a mix of sleeping, eating, procreating, watching TV, picking up groceries, and occasional conversations about superficial topics. How much time is left for the position of "I," necessary to reflect upon oneself in order to create self-awareness and engage in self-reorganization (accomplishing your goals, and attaining self-satisfaction), not to mention self-regulation (remaining healthy, engaging in mentally stimulating activities), and moral-growth (having time for religious and moral debates and conversations which lead to deeper understanding and self-worth).
With men and women intermingling in various circles of life that were gender-specific in the past (home, the workplace, sports, schools), people of the opposite sex are discovering new common ground and more reasons to be friends, but with the media constantly showing male/female friendships evolving into romantic relationships, many are convinced that a long-term, truly platonic friendship between individuals of the opposite sex just isn't possible. Many men underestimate the role that females play in the development of their own masculinity, and the rise of female-female bonds over female-male bonds has further created space between the two genders and at times pitted them against one another in constant competition. The rise of feminist nepotism has created a toxic underdevelopment of male development. I was in the Barnes & Noble shop the last time that I was in the States and I asked the woman behind the counter where their section for masculinity was located. She looked shocked at me and understandably confused, and I stated "You know the section for gender readings, just like women's studies but for men." She coyly replied "We cover male interests in the sports section." There was a wall of gender specific books related to women, another wall related to minorities, and one book hidden in the sociology section on males and to my surprise the topic was masculinity in the Middle East. Since then I have engaged in an internet search trying to find recent books related to male development and sadly have only found books focused on sexual reproduction and occasionally a thesis or dissertation written about male psychology.
As much as it pains me to say the following it's a sad truth, feminism has put females on the podium and men have been pushed into the closet. This has drastic influences on both genders, females who congregate with other females exclusively become hyper-females constantly waging a war of insecurities and rarely finding self-awareness and mental stability; whereas the opposite is true it has plunged males into hyper-aggression or hyper-sensitivity both of which are toxic to the development of healthy male masculinity. They only feel manly when engaging in what society determines to be "masculine" activities or they become too sensitive trying to compete for female attention and they are outcast from the male community. Neither of these friendships are positively developing a human and it prevents males from engaging in deep self-reflection and developing bonds and meaningful relationships (even with their wives) and females become too indulgent in self-reflection which in turn makes every emotional situation a life-or-death tragedy.
Today it's no longer acceptable to suggest (publicly) that men and women aren't equal, but it's perfectly OK and even fashionable to state that we're equal but separate—that our brains work in fundamentally different ways, that we communicate differently, that we're metaphorically from different planets (Mars and Venus). The gender-war evangelists make men and women seem so far apart, so incompatible, you'd think that, if it weren't for the biological imperative to reproduce, men and women would want absolutely nothing to do with each other. This take on human relations serves as the basis for nearly every joke and the fact is that men and women are not exactly the same; dissimilarities do exist. Or else we're drawn to them because they quietly justify lingering inequities. When it comes to straight male-female friendships, such rationalizations are impossible. Here's a "regular" guy and a "regular" girl. Somehow they've overcome their natural differences and managed to build a platonic relationship. Academic research confirms the trope that "when women get together, they spend their time communicating thoughts and feelings. Men are more likely to discuss neutral subjects such as sports, or engage in some activity." Summarizing the difference, the psychologist Paul H. Wright has said that women's friendships are "face-to-face" while men's friendships are "side-by-side." But when men and women start hanging around each other platonically, they meet somewhere in the middle in terms of emotional exchange. Research shows that male-female friendships are more emotive than male-male relationships and less emotive than female-female ones. Men said that what they like about their cross-sex friendships is “the ability to share without fear of judgment”, and women said they “valued the opportunity to watch sports, for example, without having to pick apart their feelings.”
As a greater percentage of men and women experience cross-sex friendships, it stands to reason that more people will come around to this point of view and that the more extreme versions of the gender-divide argument will fall out of favor. Getting older you start to realize what you truly value in people and friendships, and you act in such a way to support those things, because you can. And while same-sex friendships are great, in many ways, there are things you cannot get from them. Similarly, there are things you can't always get in romantic relationships. There's a certain ease in platonic friendships with guys for women: You know they won't judge you, they won't hold grudges, they don't really care what you're wearing, they're not going to compete with you for that cute guy, or that "trapping of success" (whether it's in a job or some other part of life). They also don't "need" anything from you the way romantic partners, or sometimes other women, do.
In a traditional friendship she does the dishes because he is male, in the anti-traditionalist friendship he does the dishes because she is male, in the egalitarian friendships he/she does the dishes because he/she has the time to do it. It is mutually beneficial and only arises from the extended friendship network. This requires society to allow the possibility of self-determination and therefore provides emancipation of the self for both males and females so that they can develop themselves individually rather than as males or as females as a group they can develop as humans.
People who participate in egalitarian friendships are far more likely to see themselves and their role in this world more pragmatically, they reject social norms to enter into hierarchical gender specific sports or jobs. They pragmatically and conscientiously construct their own individual entity outside of gender specifications and socially acceptable roles. The man can become a ballet dancer and retain his masculinity, a female can become a race car driver and retain her femininity, and man can be a nurturing father and still be respected and considered a man, and a woman can provide for her family economically but retain her femininity. Both can explore and travel the world, and with this egalitarian friendship develop new meaningful relationships with people from other cultures, they can achieve their dreams without having to pretend that that dream is something that they are supposed to want because of their genders.
My response, then, is that platonic relationships between men and women are possible, but that success in this type of relationship relies on their ability to set the right expectations and effectively communicate their thoughts and feelings so that each person knows where they stand with no hidden agenda. I still strongly stand by this belief. As you dwell on your friendships and even intimate relationships, whether you are a male with male friends, a female with female friends, female with male friends, or male with female friends, I urge you to use self-reflection and introspection to help you gain clarity about the types of relationships you currently have. I hope to inspire you to strengthen those friendships that serve you and bring the best out of you. I hope to empower you to resolve those friendships that bring you unnecessary drama and compromise your integrity. I challenge you to do some work here and answer for yourself.
Mission:
Men: go and try to develop a friendship with a powerful female that you respect (preferably a female that is in a devoted relationship/married) explore how masculine you can become by having an egalitarian relationship. You need to experience the benefits of the company of an ideologically likeminded female.
Women: you need to embrace the fact that males are capable of relating their emotions, they may be afraid to relate to their buddies and they may not have time nor the intellectual partnership to relate to their wife, stop judging them as the 2D representations that the world likes to box them into. You yourself need the benefits of male friendship that is non-sexual because you need to learn to separate yourself from indulgent dramatic fantasies and get a better grip on reality. You need to go to the gym, you need to know how great it is to watch sports, and you need to learn how relaxing it is to just not talk! For those of you who are already successful and self-aware who think you have it all figured out-think again because somewhere inside you, you still view men as competition or objects. The maturity of the individual is a key factor, identities and their formation can have different prevalence at different stages of one’s life.
I can't give solutions to all of life's problems, doubts, or fears.
But I can listen to you, and together we will search for answers.
I can't change your past with all its heartache and pain, nor the future with its untold stories.
But I can be there now when you need me to care.
I can't keep your feet from stumbling.
I can only offer my hand that you may grasp it and not fall.
Your joys, triumphs, successes, and happiness are not mine;
Yet I can share in your laughter.
Your decisions in life are not mine to make, nor to judge;
I can only support you, encourage you, and help you when you ask.
I can't prevent you from falling away from friendship, from your values, from me.
I can only pray for you, talk to you and wait for you.
I can't give you boundaries which I have determined for you,
But I can give you the room to change, room to grow, room to be yourself.
I can't keep your heart from breaking and hurting,
But I can cry with you and help you pick up the pieces and put them back in place.
I can't tell you who you are.
I can only love you and be your friend.
Poem by: Jana C. Souder July 2007
All Rights Reserved
“The friendship between a man and a woman which does not lead to marriage or desire for marriage may be a life-long experience of the greatest value to themselves and to all their circle of acquaintances; but for this type of friendship both a rare man and a rare woman are needed. Perhaps it should be added that either the man or the woman thus deeply bound in lifelong friendship who seeks marriage must find a still rarer man or woman to wed, to make such three cornered comradeships a permanent success.” Anna Garlin Spencer
Some women are judged in modern society for having more male friends than female friends, it is claimed that they must be a boy to have guy friends and not allow those friendships to become sexual ones. Perhaps there is truth in this because when I compare myself to most women I definitely see a difference in the way that we think and the things that we consider to be important. Despite this passing thought, however, I intend to advocate that it is healthy for men and women to have friendships with members of the opposite sex. It allows men to become emotionally mature, more tolerant, and helps them develop intellectually; and it allows women to have intellectual stimulus, gain a sense of independence, and allows them to become less insecure. I do believe that this is only successful if both members are happily married because even if one of them is single the temptation to cross the line is too high.
We understand ourselves in relation to other people, therefore, we provide opportunities for others to define themselves just as others help us in defining ourselves. The one area that women commonly lack in their female-female relationships is time on self-reflection, as naturally self-sacrificing we spend most of the time helping others with their issues and less time focusing on our needs. Furthermore, we tend to migrate towards other females who have problems that we can help fix. The one area that males lack in their male-male friendships is the ability to develop self-identity. The majority of the time that males get together they spend it in meaningless activity that requires no talking, or engaging in and when they do speak it is usually about "male-appropriate" topics like chicks, working out, or their jobs. In both situations the male and female receive fulfillment but in neither case do they develop good relationships with others or complete self-satisfaction.
Beyond the female-female and male-male friendships the third type is the husband-wife friendship. It is highly unlikely, unless you are part of the 3% of the population who has married a friend, that your relationship with your husband or wife will yield a strong friendship. For the majority of these relationships you share a physical bond and an intimacy level that does not nor should exist with any other person, however, you are focused on the other person's needs so much and the self disappears amidst a haze of routine. You get to the point where your relationship with your spouse becomes a mix of sleeping, eating, procreating, watching TV, picking up groceries, and occasional conversations about superficial topics. How much time is left for the position of "I," necessary to reflect upon oneself in order to create self-awareness and engage in self-reorganization (accomplishing your goals, and attaining self-satisfaction), not to mention self-regulation (remaining healthy, engaging in mentally stimulating activities), and moral-growth (having time for religious and moral debates and conversations which lead to deeper understanding and self-worth).
With men and women intermingling in various circles of life that were gender-specific in the past (home, the workplace, sports, schools), people of the opposite sex are discovering new common ground and more reasons to be friends, but with the media constantly showing male/female friendships evolving into romantic relationships, many are convinced that a long-term, truly platonic friendship between individuals of the opposite sex just isn't possible. Many men underestimate the role that females play in the development of their own masculinity, and the rise of female-female bonds over female-male bonds has further created space between the two genders and at times pitted them against one another in constant competition. The rise of feminist nepotism has created a toxic underdevelopment of male development. I was in the Barnes & Noble shop the last time that I was in the States and I asked the woman behind the counter where their section for masculinity was located. She looked shocked at me and understandably confused, and I stated "You know the section for gender readings, just like women's studies but for men." She coyly replied "We cover male interests in the sports section." There was a wall of gender specific books related to women, another wall related to minorities, and one book hidden in the sociology section on males and to my surprise the topic was masculinity in the Middle East. Since then I have engaged in an internet search trying to find recent books related to male development and sadly have only found books focused on sexual reproduction and occasionally a thesis or dissertation written about male psychology.
As much as it pains me to say the following it's a sad truth, feminism has put females on the podium and men have been pushed into the closet. This has drastic influences on both genders, females who congregate with other females exclusively become hyper-females constantly waging a war of insecurities and rarely finding self-awareness and mental stability; whereas the opposite is true it has plunged males into hyper-aggression or hyper-sensitivity both of which are toxic to the development of healthy male masculinity. They only feel manly when engaging in what society determines to be "masculine" activities or they become too sensitive trying to compete for female attention and they are outcast from the male community. Neither of these friendships are positively developing a human and it prevents males from engaging in deep self-reflection and developing bonds and meaningful relationships (even with their wives) and females become too indulgent in self-reflection which in turn makes every emotional situation a life-or-death tragedy.
Today it's no longer acceptable to suggest (publicly) that men and women aren't equal, but it's perfectly OK and even fashionable to state that we're equal but separate—that our brains work in fundamentally different ways, that we communicate differently, that we're metaphorically from different planets (Mars and Venus). The gender-war evangelists make men and women seem so far apart, so incompatible, you'd think that, if it weren't for the biological imperative to reproduce, men and women would want absolutely nothing to do with each other. This take on human relations serves as the basis for nearly every joke and the fact is that men and women are not exactly the same; dissimilarities do exist. Or else we're drawn to them because they quietly justify lingering inequities. When it comes to straight male-female friendships, such rationalizations are impossible. Here's a "regular" guy and a "regular" girl. Somehow they've overcome their natural differences and managed to build a platonic relationship. Academic research confirms the trope that "when women get together, they spend their time communicating thoughts and feelings. Men are more likely to discuss neutral subjects such as sports, or engage in some activity." Summarizing the difference, the psychologist Paul H. Wright has said that women's friendships are "face-to-face" while men's friendships are "side-by-side." But when men and women start hanging around each other platonically, they meet somewhere in the middle in terms of emotional exchange. Research shows that male-female friendships are more emotive than male-male relationships and less emotive than female-female ones. Men said that what they like about their cross-sex friendships is “the ability to share without fear of judgment”, and women said they “valued the opportunity to watch sports, for example, without having to pick apart their feelings.”
As a greater percentage of men and women experience cross-sex friendships, it stands to reason that more people will come around to this point of view and that the more extreme versions of the gender-divide argument will fall out of favor. Getting older you start to realize what you truly value in people and friendships, and you act in such a way to support those things, because you can. And while same-sex friendships are great, in many ways, there are things you cannot get from them. Similarly, there are things you can't always get in romantic relationships. There's a certain ease in platonic friendships with guys for women: You know they won't judge you, they won't hold grudges, they don't really care what you're wearing, they're not going to compete with you for that cute guy, or that "trapping of success" (whether it's in a job or some other part of life). They also don't "need" anything from you the way romantic partners, or sometimes other women, do.
In a traditional friendship she does the dishes because he is male, in the anti-traditionalist friendship he does the dishes because she is male, in the egalitarian friendships he/she does the dishes because he/she has the time to do it. It is mutually beneficial and only arises from the extended friendship network. This requires society to allow the possibility of self-determination and therefore provides emancipation of the self for both males and females so that they can develop themselves individually rather than as males or as females as a group they can develop as humans.
People who participate in egalitarian friendships are far more likely to see themselves and their role in this world more pragmatically, they reject social norms to enter into hierarchical gender specific sports or jobs. They pragmatically and conscientiously construct their own individual entity outside of gender specifications and socially acceptable roles. The man can become a ballet dancer and retain his masculinity, a female can become a race car driver and retain her femininity, and man can be a nurturing father and still be respected and considered a man, and a woman can provide for her family economically but retain her femininity. Both can explore and travel the world, and with this egalitarian friendship develop new meaningful relationships with people from other cultures, they can achieve their dreams without having to pretend that that dream is something that they are supposed to want because of their genders.
My response, then, is that platonic relationships between men and women are possible, but that success in this type of relationship relies on their ability to set the right expectations and effectively communicate their thoughts and feelings so that each person knows where they stand with no hidden agenda. I still strongly stand by this belief. As you dwell on your friendships and even intimate relationships, whether you are a male with male friends, a female with female friends, female with male friends, or male with female friends, I urge you to use self-reflection and introspection to help you gain clarity about the types of relationships you currently have. I hope to inspire you to strengthen those friendships that serve you and bring the best out of you. I hope to empower you to resolve those friendships that bring you unnecessary drama and compromise your integrity. I challenge you to do some work here and answer for yourself.
Mission:
Men: go and try to develop a friendship with a powerful female that you respect (preferably a female that is in a devoted relationship/married) explore how masculine you can become by having an egalitarian relationship. You need to experience the benefits of the company of an ideologically likeminded female.
Women: you need to embrace the fact that males are capable of relating their emotions, they may be afraid to relate to their buddies and they may not have time nor the intellectual partnership to relate to their wife, stop judging them as the 2D representations that the world likes to box them into. You yourself need the benefits of male friendship that is non-sexual because you need to learn to separate yourself from indulgent dramatic fantasies and get a better grip on reality. You need to go to the gym, you need to know how great it is to watch sports, and you need to learn how relaxing it is to just not talk! For those of you who are already successful and self-aware who think you have it all figured out-think again because somewhere inside you, you still view men as competition or objects. The maturity of the individual is a key factor, identities and their formation can have different prevalence at different stages of one’s life.
I can't give solutions to all of life's problems, doubts, or fears.
But I can listen to you, and together we will search for answers.
I can't change your past with all its heartache and pain, nor the future with its untold stories.
But I can be there now when you need me to care.
I can't keep your feet from stumbling.
I can only offer my hand that you may grasp it and not fall.
Your joys, triumphs, successes, and happiness are not mine;
Yet I can share in your laughter.
Your decisions in life are not mine to make, nor to judge;
I can only support you, encourage you, and help you when you ask.
I can't prevent you from falling away from friendship, from your values, from me.
I can only pray for you, talk to you and wait for you.
I can't give you boundaries which I have determined for you,
But I can give you the room to change, room to grow, room to be yourself.
I can't keep your heart from breaking and hurting,
But I can cry with you and help you pick up the pieces and put them back in place.
I can't tell you who you are.
I can only love you and be your friend.
Poem by: Jana C. Souder July 2007
Published 4th Apr 2016
| Edited 12th Jan 2017
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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4th Apr 2016 10:06pm
I'll read this again later when I have more time but I agree with all the points. In my own life, despite never marrying, I have been blessed with many women friends, some single, some attached/married. It is good to enjoy friendship without a sexual agenda.
8th Apr 2016 4:04am
This message has been a recurring theme in my life for the past decade or so. Every man wants to be the world's greatest lover, but few will aspire first to be that once in a lifetime friend every woman should have and few meet. We get terrified of being relegated to the role of the Gay Best Friend or an orbitor, waiting, a dick in a glass case. It takes a great deal of self examination and acceptance to be truly genuine with a woman when you are alone with her. It takes even more to be that authentic without any romantic or sexual pretense. She ends up seeing all of you, without the lust and sparkle, the spellbinding effect to wow her. It's a very vulnerable place, but as I have learned from having mostly women for best friends ... Vulnerable isn't the same as weak.
