deepundergroundpoetry.com
DOES GOD SEND TO ETERNAL FIRE?
DOES GOD SEND TO ETERNAL FIRE?
That who loves will get so feeble
though he is a mighty giant.
Those he loves might be mere weaklings.
They're for him the strongest power.
Mothers never hurt their babies
even if they cause them torments.
They endure their treatment gladly,
and they can't disturb their rapture.
Christ, Who is sublime perfection,
came to sacrifice His passion
to confer on little infants
greatest joy to heal their torture.
He endured their spite and hatred
and did not request reprisal.
He just asked for full forgiveness
as they did not know their purpose.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
________________________________
That who loves will get so feeble
though he is a mighty giant.
Those he loves might be mere weaklings.
They're for him the strongest power.
Mothers never hurt their babies
even if they cause them torments.
They endure their treatment gladly,
and they can't disturb their rapture.
Christ, Who is sublime perfection,
came to sacrifice His passion
to confer on little infants
greatest joy to heal their torture.
He endured their spite and hatred
and did not request reprisal.
He just asked for full forgiveness
as they did not know their purpose.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
________________________________
Published 16th Jan 2024
| Edited 17th Jan 2024
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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The author encourages honest critique.
16th Jan 2024 1:32pm
16th Jan 2024 4:00pm
Without an object of the verb "send", your question does not make sense. If you meant to ask "Does God send people to eternal fire", you haven't done so. Moreover, there's nothing in the text that follows what is essentially a "yes or no" question that actually, let alone plainly, answers it.
BTW, where is it said in the NT that Jesus "came " to give up being passionate, let alone so that "enfants" [??] could be healed of the effects of the tortures they were subjected to by their mothers?
BTW, where is it said in the NT that Jesus "came " to give up being passionate, let alone so that "enfants" [??] could be healed of the effects of the tortures they were subjected to by their mothers?
17th Jan 2024 3:12pm
I wonder:
do you assert
there is a beneficient god
who rules mankind
and yet is by his nature bent,
intent,
to send
upon their death
and out of pique,
all those who have rejected him
into a realm of infinite
and endless pain,
a horrid punishment,
that lasts implacably
for all eternity?
.
And if you do,
then is the claim
that Jesus (and Paul, too) has made
that God is one who loves
not just his friends
but also all his enemies
a lie?
do you assert
there is a beneficient god
who rules mankind
and yet is by his nature bent,
intent,
to send
upon their death
and out of pique,
all those who have rejected him
into a realm of infinite
and endless pain,
a horrid punishment,
that lasts implacably
for all eternity?
.
And if you do,
then is the claim
that Jesus (and Paul, too) has made
that God is one who loves
not just his friends
but also all his enemies
a lie?
Very dear Baldwin,
1- I changed ENFANTS to INFANTS.
2- SEND is used in a title, and l think that titles have some kind of permission. Moreover, the object is very clear. You knew it immediately.
3- l mean by INFANTS all the people and not real infants, because all people are like infants when we consider their power and knowledge. J.Z.
1- I changed ENFANTS to INFANTS.
2- SEND is used in a title, and l think that titles have some kind of permission. Moreover, the object is very clear. You knew it immediately.
3- l mean by INFANTS all the people and not real infants, because all people are like infants when we consider their power and knowledge. J.Z.
"1- I changed ENFANTS to INFANTS"
So you admit you made a mistake in using "enfants".
.
"2- NEED is used in a title,
Where is "need" used in your title?
"and l think that titles have some kind of permission."
Only some kind? What kind of permission do titles have? If it's to not make sense or be written in accordance with the rules of grammar, you'll have to provide me with evidence from any book on how to write poetry well or how to write apt titles for what one is intent to speak about in a composition that shows that your claim is correct.
"Moreover, the object is very clear."
No, it is not at all, let alone "very", clear.
"You knew it immediately."
No, I didn't. I originally thought that you were asking "Does God send letters to eternal fire?".
Now that we have that cleared up, I hope you won't do again what you have just done, i.e., pretend that I did not note, let alone correctly, that there's nothing in the text that follows what is essentially a "yes or no" question that actually, let alone plainly, answers it.
and that I did not ask you to tell me where it's said in the NT that Jesus "came " to give up being passionate, let alone so that [all eople] could be healed of the effects of the tortures they were subjected to by their mothers.
Cue the ad hominem that what I said is not worth responding to.
.
So you admit you made a mistake in using "enfants".
.
"2- NEED is used in a title,
Where is "need" used in your title?
"and l think that titles have some kind of permission."
Only some kind? What kind of permission do titles have? If it's to not make sense or be written in accordance with the rules of grammar, you'll have to provide me with evidence from any book on how to write poetry well or how to write apt titles for what one is intent to speak about in a composition that shows that your claim is correct.
"Moreover, the object is very clear."
No, it is not at all, let alone "very", clear.
"You knew it immediately."
No, I didn't. I originally thought that you were asking "Does God send letters to eternal fire?".
Now that we have that cleared up, I hope you won't do again what you have just done, i.e., pretend that I did not note, let alone correctly, that there's nothing in the text that follows what is essentially a "yes or no" question that actually, let alone plainly, answers it.
and that I did not ask you to tell me where it's said in the NT that Jesus "came " to give up being passionate, let alone so that [all eople] could be healed of the effects of the tortures they were subjected to by their mothers.
Cue the ad hominem that what I said is not worth responding to.
.
18th Jan 2024 3:55pm
I too believe that God is soo forgiving that He wouldn't throw anyone in the hellfire yet when i see evil i understand why hellfire exists as punishment both in bible and Quran.
Kudos for a superb poem!
Plz also read and comment my newest poem too.
Kudos for a superb poem!
Plz also read and comment my newest poem too.
18th Jan 2024 4:03pm
18th Jan 2024 4:23pm
"Hmm?? Isn't it obvious?"
No, it's not since I also posted a poem in this thread.
In any case, what criteria do you use for determining whether or not a poem is "superb"?
No, it's not since I also posted a poem in this thread.
In any case, what criteria do you use for determining whether or not a poem is "superb"?
18th Jan 2024 5:01pm
Goshh, you have me confused now, i can't see the thread from this page and i didn't visit any thread or spot yours on this one poet page. Are you a newbie or just pulling my leg?
You can only post a comment on a poet's poem page for their one poem.
Well i found it superb in content, style and poetic appeal.
Should i read yours too on your page to see if its also superb?😁
You can only post a comment on a poet's poem page for their one poem.
Well i found it superb in content, style and poetic appeal.
Should i read yours too on your page to see if its also superb?😁
18th Jan 2024 5:40pm
"Goshh, you have me confused now, i can't see the thread from this page and i didn't visit any thread or spot yours on this one poet page:
My piece (which I also posted separately) is in the fourth message in this thread.
My piece (which I also posted separately) is in the fourth message in this thread.
18th Jan 2024 5:50pm
Ohhh gahhh now you pointing it out exactly i finally get it. Only now did i find your answering poem .
Yes yours is also very superb in poetic performance.
But as a religious person i can answer that for you that the God i believe in is loving for not forgiving those who did evil by others, because love is doing justice to the beloved.
God can not be loving if He places both the murderer and innocent victim to enjoy in the same paradise. Love is fairness.
Yes yours is also very superb in poetic performance.
But as a religious person i can answer that for you that the God i believe in is loving for not forgiving those who did evil by others, because love is doing justice to the beloved.
God can not be loving if He places both the murderer and innocent victim to enjoy in the same paradise. Love is fairness.
So what J-Z should have written in his text is "yes", God sends people to eternal fire instead of what he did write --- which has nothing to do with the question he poses in his poorly written title and certainly does nor answer the question that he claims he was raising.
BTW, you might want to know that there are religious persons -- such as Rob Bell (_Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived_) not to mention Origen and other early Church Fathers
( ttps://www.academia.edu/49505328/Origen_And_Apokatastasis) -
who think that because of what their religion proclaims about God even the Devil will be redeemed.
BTW, you might want to know that there are religious persons -- such as Rob Bell (_Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived_) not to mention Origen and other early Church Fathers
( ttps://www.academia.edu/49505328/Origen_And_Apokatastasis) -
who think that because of what their religion proclaims about God even the Devil will be redeemed.
18th Jan 2024 6:29pm
Well all I can say is that the Christian concept is very confusing what with a loving God dying for sin yet there still being hellfire in bible.
Our concept is clearer and rational that evil will be punished, whether God will really punish eternally is up to His decision and mercy but what i believe for sure is that no evil person will be admitted to paradise.
The question the poet raised is answered very vaguely and confusingly yes when it comes to God's mercy since we know there is hellfire in bible too.
Ok now lets not crowd his page, you may talk on my page or private msg poet plz.
Our concept is clearer and rational that evil will be punished, whether God will really punish eternally is up to His decision and mercy but what i believe for sure is that no evil person will be admitted to paradise.
The question the poet raised is answered very vaguely and confusingly yes when it comes to God's mercy since we know there is hellfire in bible too.
Ok now lets not crowd his page, you may talk on my page or private msg poet plz.
18th Jan 2024 7:02pm
"Well all I can say is that the Christian concept is very confusing what with a loving God dying for sin yet there still being hellfire in bible."
The NT does NOT say that God died for sin and while parts of the Bible (not the whole Bible) seemingly (but not indisputably) speak of hellfire, not a single one of those parts says that the experience of it is eternal.
And I am curious to know how you can speak of J-Z's piece being "superb in content, style and poetic appeal"" if, as you admit, it answers the question it is supposed to answer " very vaguely and confusingly".
The NT does NOT say that God died for sin and while parts of the Bible (not the whole Bible) seemingly (but not indisputably) speak of hellfire, not a single one of those parts says that the experience of it is eternal.
And I am curious to know how you can speak of J-Z's piece being "superb in content, style and poetic appeal"" if, as you admit, it answers the question it is supposed to answer " very vaguely and confusingly".
Very dear Zaynab,
Thank you very much for your read, and comment. I don't care about what people think of me, but l want the truth to be clear to everybody. Jesus asked His Father to forgive His killers. Who could do that after all what He had suffered?. Wasn't that the greatest LOVE that knew no limits? But hell fire would be felt in their conscience. They would bring it to themselves. Another person, in the place of Christ would ask for the destruction of the people who tortured and killed Him. CHRIST FORGAVE THEM. What was the impetus for that? wasn't it an endless kind of love, much greater than that LOVE which is felt by mothers towards their children? Could that love send people to hell? However, God is all mighty, and fair. He knows what to do to be completely just. J.Z.
Thank you very much for your read, and comment. I don't care about what people think of me, but l want the truth to be clear to everybody. Jesus asked His Father to forgive His killers. Who could do that after all what He had suffered?. Wasn't that the greatest LOVE that knew no limits? But hell fire would be felt in their conscience. They would bring it to themselves. Another person, in the place of Christ would ask for the destruction of the people who tortured and killed Him. CHRIST FORGAVE THEM. What was the impetus for that? wasn't it an endless kind of love, much greater than that LOVE which is felt by mothers towards their children? Could that love send people to hell? However, God is all mighty, and fair. He knows what to do to be completely just. J.Z.
"Jesus asked His Father to forgive His killers.'
Notably only in Luke. No other Evangelist testifies to Jesus doing so. So the story may be a Lukan construction not a recollection of something Jesus actually said. And there's nothing in Luke that says that Jesus' Father forgave Jesus' killers.
"Who can do that after all what He had suffered?. "
Quire a few people. Luke says Stephen did. Paul did. And there are examples in Buddhist literature of people who were tortured who were intent that their torturers would be forgiven.
"But hell fire will be be [sic] felt in their conscience. They will bring it to themselves"
So they themselves bring "hellfire" to themselves? They are not placed by someone other than themselves in a place of "fire", let alone for all eternity?.
"Another person, in the place of Christ would ask for the destruction of the people who tortured and killed Him."
Really? And your evidence for this claim is what?
I take it that you have never read Eusebius.
"CHRIST FORGAVE THEM. What is the impetus of that?"
Who knows? But whatever it was does not provide an answer to the question of whether God sends [people] to eternal fire.
In any case, the issue is whether you have **clearly and directly** answered in your text the question you asked in your title to it. And the answer is no.
Notably only in Luke. No other Evangelist testifies to Jesus doing so. So the story may be a Lukan construction not a recollection of something Jesus actually said. And there's nothing in Luke that says that Jesus' Father forgave Jesus' killers.
"Who can do that after all what He had suffered?. "
Quire a few people. Luke says Stephen did. Paul did. And there are examples in Buddhist literature of people who were tortured who were intent that their torturers would be forgiven.
"But hell fire will be be [sic] felt in their conscience. They will bring it to themselves"
So they themselves bring "hellfire" to themselves? They are not placed by someone other than themselves in a place of "fire", let alone for all eternity?.
"Another person, in the place of Christ would ask for the destruction of the people who tortured and killed Him."
Really? And your evidence for this claim is what?
I take it that you have never read Eusebius.
"CHRIST FORGAVE THEM. What is the impetus of that?"
Who knows? But whatever it was does not provide an answer to the question of whether God sends [people] to eternal fire.
In any case, the issue is whether you have **clearly and directly** answered in your text the question you asked in your title to it. And the answer is no.
19th Jan 2024 9:36am
Very dear Baldwin,
1- Only Luke, but mentioned, and Who said it, Jesus, the harmed One. Look at the significance. The point is that the injured Jesus asked for his killers' forgiveness.
2-Stephan and paul were Christians, and all the disciples died in a horrible way, but the did not leave their faith.
3- Don't you think that the torture of conscience is harder than the real fire. The Holy Spirit has written the Father's commandments on our conscience to be a hard punishment to those who commit sins.
4- My evidence is THE HUMAN NATURE.
5- Jesus' impetus is His tremendous love as God the Son.J.Z.
1- Only Luke, but mentioned, and Who said it, Jesus, the harmed One. Look at the significance. The point is that the injured Jesus asked for his killers' forgiveness.
2-Stephan and paul were Christians, and all the disciples died in a horrible way, but the did not leave their faith.
3- Don't you think that the torture of conscience is harder than the real fire. The Holy Spirit has written the Father's commandments on our conscience to be a hard punishment to those who commit sins.
4- My evidence is THE HUMAN NATURE.
5- Jesus' impetus is His tremendous love as God the Son.J.Z.
19th Jan 2024 12:44pm
How is any of this relevant to the actual matter at hand -- i.e., whether what you write in the text of your composition speaks directly and plainly to, let alone answers, the question you asked in your title of it.
