Why do the trump haters get to have all the say??
Why do the Trump haters get to have all the say??
It's because Trump lovers are intrinsically violent, and usually the "bad boy" of the family, often with established histories of domestic abuse, and no one understands this more than family and friends...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-arrests-friends-turned-in/
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/capitol-riot-fbi-arrests-family-b1792589.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/family-torn-capitol-insurrection-reflects-jan-anniversary/story?id=82070010
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-capitol-rioters-jailed-sentences-january-6-1826075
https://abcnews.go.com/US/capitol-rioters-reported-fbi-exes-dating-app-users/story?id=77265559
MAGA is the primarily white supremacist criminal element in American society...and always has been. Nothing political about it, until Don-Old showed up with his chicken little act.
It's because Trump lovers are intrinsically violent, and usually the "bad boy" of the family, often with established histories of domestic abuse, and no one understands this more than family and friends...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-arrests-friends-turned-in/
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/capitol-riot-fbi-arrests-family-b1792589.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/family-torn-capitol-insurrection-reflects-jan-anniversary/story?id=82070010
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-capitol-rioters-jailed-sentences-january-6-1826075
https://abcnews.go.com/US/capitol-rioters-reported-fbi-exes-dating-app-users/story?id=77265559
MAGA is the primarily white supremacist criminal element in American society...and always has been. Nothing political about it, until Don-Old showed up with his chicken little act.
MadameLavender said:Dropping a note here: got a forum report that someone's comment here was abusive, from someone who's own comments are just as abusive. Sort of hypocritical..... Just sayin'....
Carry on...
Duly noted,
but can we get a rebuke from someone who doesn't have their own hypocrisy history, and who's able to guarantee that suspect comments don't just mysteriously disappear?
Maybe a mod who won't meddle with textual evidence when argumentation doesn't go their way?
I agree that a good faith conversation won't be had when it starts off with unsolicited cussing. Why invest more time in vulgarities, or the grotesque people who foster them?
Of course I am just as happy to watch this thread collect cobwebs, if that's what folks want.
Carry on...
Duly noted,
but can we get a rebuke from someone who doesn't have their own hypocrisy history, and who's able to guarantee that suspect comments don't just mysteriously disappear?
Maybe a mod who won't meddle with textual evidence when argumentation doesn't go their way?
I agree that a good faith conversation won't be had when it starts off with unsolicited cussing. Why invest more time in vulgarities, or the grotesque people who foster them?
Of course I am just as happy to watch this thread collect cobwebs, if that's what folks want.
The thing about the Donald is that he does appear to have a lot of support from ordinary members of the US working class. Why?
Here are a few of the things he's said:
“many workers are earning less today than they were eighteen years ago, they are working harder and longer, but making less. Some of them are working two, three jobs but still taking home less money.”
"The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs. . . . Just look at what this corrupt establishment has done to our cities like Detroit and Flint, Michigan — and rural towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and across our country. They have stripped these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken away their jobs."
“[My campaign is] going to be a victory for the people, a victory for the wage earner, the factory worker. Remember this, a big, big victory for the factory worker. They haven’t had those victories for a long time. A victory for every citizen and for all of the people whose voices have not been heard for many, many years. They’re going to be heard again.”
“We are living through the greatest jobs theft in the history of the world [...] The state of New Hampshire has lost nearly one in three manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. . . . Since China entered the World Trade Organization . . . 70,000 factories have shut down or left the United States. That’s fifteen factories closing a day, on average. . . . If I win, day one, we are going to announce our plans to renegotiate NAFTA. If we don’t get the deal we want, we’ll leave NAFTA and start over to get a much better deal.”
Bernie Sanders could have spoken the above words. They are consistent with legitimate research on the negative impacts of trade policies on American manufacturing jobs in the 1990s and 2000s.
Time and time again the focus of Trump's speeches is jobs and trade, appealing directly to the workers. Recent analysis (see link below) shows that Trump in his 2016 campaign used pro-worker, anti-elite rhetoric three times as much as immigration or other social issues – and even his anti-immigrant diatribes are linked to the economic interests of the US working class, while when in office he renegotiated NAFTA to include stronger labour-protections.
In contrast to this, the Democrats, like the Labour Party in the UK, have largely abandoned the working class, considering that 'they have to vote for us because they have no other choice.' Trump, however, has come along and given them one in the same way as the right-wing Tommy Robinson together with the ditto Reform Party in the UK have attracted working-class support in that country: witness the recent right-wing riots.
The working classes of both countries have a legitimate grievance with the relatively recent economic policies of globalisation – ie shifting production to where labour costs are lowest – and the resulting loss of jobs. If these grievances aren't addressed by what passes for the Left in both countries, the dangerous swing to the Right will only continue.
Source: Jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2024/08/trump-workers-trade-populism-rhetoric?mc_cid=25f35fefd8
🇬🇧🇺🇸
ajay said:
The thing about the Donald is that he does appear to have a lot of support from ordinary members of the US working class. Why?
Here are a few of the things he's said:
“many workers are earning less today than they were eighteen years ago, they are working harder and longer, but making less. Some of them are working two, three jobs but still taking home less money.”
"The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs. . . . Just look at what this corrupt establishment has done to our cities like Detroit and Flint, Michigan — and rural towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and across our country. They have stripped these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken away their jobs."
“[My campaign is] going to be a victory for the people, a victory for the wage earner, the factory worker. Remember this, a big, big victory for the factory worker. They haven’t had those victories for a long time. A victory for every citizen and for all of the people whose voices have not been heard for many, many years. They’re going to be heard again.”
“We are living through the greatest jobs theft in the history of the world [...] The state of New Hampshire has lost nearly one in three manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. . . . Since China entered the World Trade Organization . . . 70,000 factories have shut down or left the United States. That’s fifteen factories closing a day, on average. . . . If I win, day one, we are going to announce our plans to renegotiate NAFTA. If we don’t get the deal we want, we’ll leave NAFTA and start over to get a much better deal.”
Bernie Sanders could have spoken the above words. They are consistent with legitimate research on the negative impacts of trade policies on American manufacturing jobs in the 1990s and 2000s.
Time and time again the focus of Trump's speeches is jobs and trade, appealing directly to the workers. Recent analysis (see link below) shows that Trump in his 2016 campaign used pro-worker, anti-elite rhetoric three times as much as immigration or other social issues – and even his anti-immigrant diatribes are linked to the economic interests of the US working class, while when in office he renegotiated NAFTA to include stronger labour-protections.
In contrast to this, the Democrats, like the Labour Party in the UK, have largely abandoned the working class, considering that 'they have to vote for us because they have no other choice.' Trump, however, has come along and given them one in the same way as the right-wing Tommy Robinson together with the ditto Reform Party in the UK have attracted working-class support in that country: witness the recent right-wing riots.
The working classes of both countries have a legitimate grievance with the relatively recent economic policies of globalisation – ie shifting production to where labour costs are lowest – and the resulting loss of jobs. If these grievances aren't addressed by what passes for the Left in both countries, the dangerous swing to the Right will only continue.
Source: Jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2024/08/trump-workers-trade-populism-rhetoric?mc_cid=25f35fefd8
🇬🇧🇺🇸
It's worth adding that due to automation a more egalitarian approach to wealth evaluation and distribution will only involve humans... decreasingly.
Let's stop thinking about only workers, and start thinking about everyone else as well.
MAGA has made their intense hatred towards non-white folks totally undeniable and even a point of pride in their "worldview", which also has a surplus of envy and rage to spare for anybody who has demonstrated superior skill sets or intelligence generally.
Look at how quickly they are wearing out phrases like "pseudo-intellectual" or "elitist", which naturally confirms their jealousy and alienation of the petite bourgeoisie, rather than acting with them in solidarity against the petro-oligarchs.
I guess maybe MAGA thinks they can conduct their own appendectomies, which will be every bit as successful as Rudy Giuliani's legal defense.
As much as I admire some Marxist thinking, the future will require a LIBERAL amount of thought... which will only be found at the crossroads of advanced brainpower AND its liberal implementation.
Conservatism is just more austerity in disguise, with the workers left to figure out the grift afterwards.
The thing about the Donald is that he does appear to have a lot of support from ordinary members of the US working class. Why?
Here are a few of the things he's said:
“many workers are earning less today than they were eighteen years ago, they are working harder and longer, but making less. Some of them are working two, three jobs but still taking home less money.”
"The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs. . . . Just look at what this corrupt establishment has done to our cities like Detroit and Flint, Michigan — and rural towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and across our country. They have stripped these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken away their jobs."
“[My campaign is] going to be a victory for the people, a victory for the wage earner, the factory worker. Remember this, a big, big victory for the factory worker. They haven’t had those victories for a long time. A victory for every citizen and for all of the people whose voices have not been heard for many, many years. They’re going to be heard again.”
“We are living through the greatest jobs theft in the history of the world [...] The state of New Hampshire has lost nearly one in three manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. . . . Since China entered the World Trade Organization . . . 70,000 factories have shut down or left the United States. That’s fifteen factories closing a day, on average. . . . If I win, day one, we are going to announce our plans to renegotiate NAFTA. If we don’t get the deal we want, we’ll leave NAFTA and start over to get a much better deal.”
Bernie Sanders could have spoken the above words. They are consistent with legitimate research on the negative impacts of trade policies on American manufacturing jobs in the 1990s and 2000s.
Time and time again the focus of Trump's speeches is jobs and trade, appealing directly to the workers. Recent analysis (see link below) shows that Trump in his 2016 campaign used pro-worker, anti-elite rhetoric three times as much as immigration or other social issues – and even his anti-immigrant diatribes are linked to the economic interests of the US working class, while when in office he renegotiated NAFTA to include stronger labour-protections.
In contrast to this, the Democrats, like the Labour Party in the UK, have largely abandoned the working class, considering that 'they have to vote for us because they have no other choice.' Trump, however, has come along and given them one in the same way as the right-wing Tommy Robinson together with the ditto Reform Party in the UK have attracted working-class support in that country: witness the recent right-wing riots.
The working classes of both countries have a legitimate grievance with the relatively recent economic policies of globalisation – ie shifting production to where labour costs are lowest – and the resulting loss of jobs. If these grievances aren't addressed by what passes for the Left in both countries, the dangerous swing to the Right will only continue.
Source: Jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2024/08/trump-workers-trade-populism-rhetoric?mc_cid=25f35fefd8
🇬🇧🇺🇸
It's worth adding that due to automation a more egalitarian approach to wealth evaluation and distribution will only involve humans... decreasingly.
Let's stop thinking about only workers, and start thinking about everyone else as well.
MAGA has made their intense hatred towards non-white folks totally undeniable and even a point of pride in their "worldview", which also has a surplus of envy and rage to spare for anybody who has demonstrated superior skill sets or intelligence generally.
Look at how quickly they are wearing out phrases like "pseudo-intellectual" or "elitist", which naturally confirms their jealousy and alienation of the petite bourgeoisie, rather than acting with them in solidarity against the petro-oligarchs.
I guess maybe MAGA thinks they can conduct their own appendectomies, which will be every bit as successful as Rudy Giuliani's legal defense.
As much as I admire some Marxist thinking, the future will require a LIBERAL amount of thought... which will only be found at the crossroads of advanced brainpower AND its liberal implementation.
Conservatism is just more austerity in disguise, with the workers left to figure out the grift afterwards.
ajay said:
The thing about the Donald is that he does appear to have a lot of support from ordinary members of the US working class. Why?
Here are a few of the things he's said:
“many workers are earning less today than they were eighteen years ago, they are working harder and longer, but making less. Some of them are working two, three jobs but still taking home less money.”
"The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs. . . . Just look at what this corrupt establishment has done to our cities like Detroit and Flint, Michigan — and rural towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and across our country. They have stripped these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken away their jobs."
“[My campaign is] going to be a victory for the people, a victory for the wage earner, the factory worker. Remember this, a big, big victory for the factory worker. They haven’t had those victories for a long time. A victory for every citizen and for all of the people whose voices have not been heard for many, many years. They’re going to be heard again.”
“We are living through the greatest jobs theft in the history of the world [...] The state of New Hampshire has lost nearly one in three manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. . . . Since China entered the World Trade Organization . . . 70,000 factories have shut down or left the United States. That’s fifteen factories closing a day, on average. . . . If I win, day one, we are going to announce our plans to renegotiate NAFTA. If we don’t get the deal we want, we’ll leave NAFTA and start over to get a much better deal.”
Bernie Sanders could have spoken the above words. They are consistent with legitimate research on the negative impacts of trade policies on American manufacturing jobs in the 1990s and 2000s.
Time and time again the focus of Trump's speeches is jobs and trade, appealing directly to the workers. Recent analysis (see link below) shows that Trump in his 2016 campaign used pro-worker, anti-elite rhetoric three times as much as immigration or other social issues – and even his anti-immigrant diatribes are linked to the economic interests of the US working class, while when in office he renegotiated NAFTA to include stronger labour-protections.
In contrast to this, the Democrats, like the Labour Party in the UK, have largely abandoned the working class, considering that 'they have to vote for us because they have no other choice.' Trump, however, has come along and given them one in the same way as the right-wing Tommy Robinson together with the ditto Reform Party in the UK have attracted working-class support in that country: witness the recent right-wing riots.
The working classes of both countries have a legitimate grievance with the relatively recent economic policies of globalisation – ie shifting production to where labour costs are lowest – and the resulting loss of jobs. If these grievances aren't addressed by what passes for the Left in both countries, the dangerous swing to the Right will only continue.
Source: Jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2024/08/trump-workers-trade-populism-rhetoric?mc_cid=25f35fefd8
🇬🇧🇺🇸
There hasn't been a legitimate opposition in years. That's western democracy for you. Pleb pick red or blue. Both parties however care little to non for their voter base. Say they will do one thing, then do the complete opposite.
The Iraq war is a perfect example. The vast majority of the public didn't want to go to war. Yet still the political elite carries on with their own goals and agenda.
The thing about the Donald is that he does appear to have a lot of support from ordinary members of the US working class. Why?
Here are a few of the things he's said:
“many workers are earning less today than they were eighteen years ago, they are working harder and longer, but making less. Some of them are working two, three jobs but still taking home less money.”
"The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs. . . . Just look at what this corrupt establishment has done to our cities like Detroit and Flint, Michigan — and rural towns in Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and across our country. They have stripped these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken away their jobs."
“[My campaign is] going to be a victory for the people, a victory for the wage earner, the factory worker. Remember this, a big, big victory for the factory worker. They haven’t had those victories for a long time. A victory for every citizen and for all of the people whose voices have not been heard for many, many years. They’re going to be heard again.”
“We are living through the greatest jobs theft in the history of the world [...] The state of New Hampshire has lost nearly one in three manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. . . . Since China entered the World Trade Organization . . . 70,000 factories have shut down or left the United States. That’s fifteen factories closing a day, on average. . . . If I win, day one, we are going to announce our plans to renegotiate NAFTA. If we don’t get the deal we want, we’ll leave NAFTA and start over to get a much better deal.”
Bernie Sanders could have spoken the above words. They are consistent with legitimate research on the negative impacts of trade policies on American manufacturing jobs in the 1990s and 2000s.
Time and time again the focus of Trump's speeches is jobs and trade, appealing directly to the workers. Recent analysis (see link below) shows that Trump in his 2016 campaign used pro-worker, anti-elite rhetoric three times as much as immigration or other social issues – and even his anti-immigrant diatribes are linked to the economic interests of the US working class, while when in office he renegotiated NAFTA to include stronger labour-protections.
In contrast to this, the Democrats, like the Labour Party in the UK, have largely abandoned the working class, considering that 'they have to vote for us because they have no other choice.' Trump, however, has come along and given them one in the same way as the right-wing Tommy Robinson together with the ditto Reform Party in the UK have attracted working-class support in that country: witness the recent right-wing riots.
The working classes of both countries have a legitimate grievance with the relatively recent economic policies of globalisation – ie shifting production to where labour costs are lowest – and the resulting loss of jobs. If these grievances aren't addressed by what passes for the Left in both countries, the dangerous swing to the Right will only continue.
Source: Jacobin.
https://jacobin.com/2024/08/trump-workers-trade-populism-rhetoric?mc_cid=25f35fefd8
🇬🇧🇺🇸
There hasn't been a legitimate opposition in years. That's western democracy for you. Pleb pick red or blue. Both parties however care little to non for their voter base. Say they will do one thing, then do the complete opposite.
The Iraq war is a perfect example. The vast majority of the public didn't want to go to war. Yet still the political elite carries on with their own goals and agenda.
MidnightSonneteer said:
Duly noted,
but can we get a rebuke from someone who doesn't have their own hypocrisy history, and who's able to guarantee that suspect comments don't just mysteriously disappear?
Maybe a mod who won't meddle with textual evidence when argumentation doesn't go their way?
I agree that a good faith conversation won't be had when it starts off with unsolicited cussing. Why invest more time in vulgarities, or the grotesque people who foster them?
Of course I am just as happy to watch this thread collect cobwebs, if that's what folks want.
Just because I'm a mod, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have my own opinions and beliefs. Difference is, is I don't think that everyone who believes differently than me, is a useless moron.
The point here, is that you are the one who hit the report button and called someone's comment abusive then turned around and hurled the same abuse at them, yet they chose not to report yours.
Then you have the balls to call me a butthurt sore loser in a pm, a few weeks ago. Frankly, you're lucky your account here is still active.
So there's your warning: interact civilly on this website because the clock is ticking on your ability to still be able to post in the forums.
Duly noted,
but can we get a rebuke from someone who doesn't have their own hypocrisy history, and who's able to guarantee that suspect comments don't just mysteriously disappear?
Maybe a mod who won't meddle with textual evidence when argumentation doesn't go their way?
I agree that a good faith conversation won't be had when it starts off with unsolicited cussing. Why invest more time in vulgarities, or the grotesque people who foster them?
Of course I am just as happy to watch this thread collect cobwebs, if that's what folks want.
Just because I'm a mod, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have my own opinions and beliefs. Difference is, is I don't think that everyone who believes differently than me, is a useless moron.
The point here, is that you are the one who hit the report button and called someone's comment abusive then turned around and hurled the same abuse at them, yet they chose not to report yours.
Then you have the balls to call me a butthurt sore loser in a pm, a few weeks ago. Frankly, you're lucky your account here is still active.
So there's your warning: interact civilly on this website because the clock is ticking on your ability to still be able to post in the forums.
Carpe_Noctem said:
There hasn't been a legitimate opposition in years. That's western democracy for you. Pleb pick red or blue. Both parties however care little to non for their voter base. Say they will do one thing, then do the complete opposite.
The Iraq war is a perfect example. The vast majority of the public didn't want to go to war. Yet still the political elite carries on with their own goals and agenda.
So what are you doing about it? Anything? Or is your 'non-compliance', – whatever that means – the extent of your opposition?
🇬🇧🇺🇸
There hasn't been a legitimate opposition in years. That's western democracy for you. Pleb pick red or blue. Both parties however care little to non for their voter base. Say they will do one thing, then do the complete opposite.
The Iraq war is a perfect example. The vast majority of the public didn't want to go to war. Yet still the political elite carries on with their own goals and agenda.
So what are you doing about it? Anything? Or is your 'non-compliance', – whatever that means – the extent of your opposition?
🇬🇧🇺🇸
ajay said:
So what are you doing about it? Anything? Or is your 'non-compliance', – whatever that means – the extent of your opposition?
🇬🇧🇺🇸
The covid measures for example. Outright tyranny by the government. That was a wake up call for many. The alleged opposition parties opposed nothing.
So imagine the numbers gradually rising of those refusing to pay tax for example. Having come to the conclusion that taxation is theft that funds corruption wars and terrorism.
Non compliance with regards to corrupt illegitimate governments.
Why are you listening to corrupt psychopaths and pedophiles that care not for you?
So what are you doing about it? Anything? Or is your 'non-compliance', – whatever that means – the extent of your opposition?
🇬🇧🇺🇸
The covid measures for example. Outright tyranny by the government. That was a wake up call for many. The alleged opposition parties opposed nothing.
So imagine the numbers gradually rising of those refusing to pay tax for example. Having come to the conclusion that taxation is theft that funds corruption wars and terrorism.
Non compliance with regards to corrupt illegitimate governments.
Why are you listening to corrupt psychopaths and pedophiles that care not for you?
MidnightSonneteer said:
It's worth adding that due to automation a more egalitarian approach to wealth evaluation and distribution will only involve humans... decreasingly.
Let's stop thinking about only workers, and start thinking about everyone else as well.
MAGA has made their intense hatred towards non-white folks totally undeniable and even a point of pride in their "worldview", which also has a surplus of envy and rage to spare for anybody who has demonstrated superior skill sets or intelligence generally.
Look at how quickly they are wearing out phrases like "pseudo-intellectual" or "elitist", which naturally confirms their jealousy and alienation of the petite bourgeoisie, rather than acting with them in solidarity against the petro-oligarchs.
I guess maybe MAGA thinks they can conduct their own appendectomies, which will be every bit as successful as Rudy Giuliani's legal defense.
As much as I admire some Marxist thinking, the future will require a LIBERAL amount of thought... which will only be found at the crossroads of advanced brainpower AND its liberal implementation.
Conservatism is just more austerity in disguise, with the workers left to figure out the grift afterwards.
Hi, Midnight.
It's not only in the US that this swing to the hard-right is taking place. It's happening all over Europe too. For example, the largest single party in France – Marine le Pen's National Rally (NR)– is of a fascist persuasion and was only kept out of office by a coalition of the left-leaning parties. However, the growth of the NR, even since last Christmas, has been remarkable, and, worryingly, its growth continues.
The growth of the French hard right is mirrored in Germany with the fascist
Alternative für Deutschland set to become the largest single party in the imminent election there:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/01/german-far-right-party-afd-state-election-victory-thuringia
In Britain, the right wing Reform Party came from nowhere to win 14 seats in the recent general election here. Had the electoral system in operation been proportional representation rather than first past the post, they would have won many more. An expression of the anger felt was amply shown by the recent UK riots.
That's only three examples. We can add Hungary, Romania etc. ... I won't go on; it's too depressing. Donald Trump and MAGA, though, are involved in none of these countries.
The reason why I spoke about the working class in my post above is that it is largely the working class in all the above countries which is turning towards the hard right in the search for solutions to their problems, because they have been abandoned by the conventional parties. As you know, I want the Democrats to win the upcoming US election, but that's only because they're not Trump's MAGA Republicans. The Democrats offer no solution at all for the working class, to an even greater extent than the Labour Party in the UK offers no solution at all for that class.
All I'm trying to do is to understand why this swing to the hard-right is taking place, so I can effectively argue against it on the streets and elsewhere. It will get me precisely nowhere if I simply insult people and call them a fascist/Nazi or whatever if they voice concerns about immigration, unemployment, the so-called cost of living crisis and so on. Many of the people becoming involved with the far-right are just ordinary people, with legitimate grievances, not the usual suspects at all. They are becoming involved in this way because it is the far-right which appears to be addressing their concerns, not the so-called left parties. That's my only point in this post. The question of solutions is for a different post.
All the best, and solidarity. 👍
It's worth adding that due to automation a more egalitarian approach to wealth evaluation and distribution will only involve humans... decreasingly.
Let's stop thinking about only workers, and start thinking about everyone else as well.
MAGA has made their intense hatred towards non-white folks totally undeniable and even a point of pride in their "worldview", which also has a surplus of envy and rage to spare for anybody who has demonstrated superior skill sets or intelligence generally.
Look at how quickly they are wearing out phrases like "pseudo-intellectual" or "elitist", which naturally confirms their jealousy and alienation of the petite bourgeoisie, rather than acting with them in solidarity against the petro-oligarchs.
I guess maybe MAGA thinks they can conduct their own appendectomies, which will be every bit as successful as Rudy Giuliani's legal defense.
As much as I admire some Marxist thinking, the future will require a LIBERAL amount of thought... which will only be found at the crossroads of advanced brainpower AND its liberal implementation.
Conservatism is just more austerity in disguise, with the workers left to figure out the grift afterwards.
Hi, Midnight.
It's not only in the US that this swing to the hard-right is taking place. It's happening all over Europe too. For example, the largest single party in France – Marine le Pen's National Rally (NR)– is of a fascist persuasion and was only kept out of office by a coalition of the left-leaning parties. However, the growth of the NR, even since last Christmas, has been remarkable, and, worryingly, its growth continues.
The growth of the French hard right is mirrored in Germany with the fascist
Alternative für Deutschland set to become the largest single party in the imminent election there:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/01/german-far-right-party-afd-state-election-victory-thuringia
In Britain, the right wing Reform Party came from nowhere to win 14 seats in the recent general election here. Had the electoral system in operation been proportional representation rather than first past the post, they would have won many more. An expression of the anger felt was amply shown by the recent UK riots.
That's only three examples. We can add Hungary, Romania etc. ... I won't go on; it's too depressing. Donald Trump and MAGA, though, are involved in none of these countries.
The reason why I spoke about the working class in my post above is that it is largely the working class in all the above countries which is turning towards the hard right in the search for solutions to their problems, because they have been abandoned by the conventional parties. As you know, I want the Democrats to win the upcoming US election, but that's only because they're not Trump's MAGA Republicans. The Democrats offer no solution at all for the working class, to an even greater extent than the Labour Party in the UK offers no solution at all for that class.
All I'm trying to do is to understand why this swing to the hard-right is taking place, so I can effectively argue against it on the streets and elsewhere. It will get me precisely nowhere if I simply insult people and call them a fascist/Nazi or whatever if they voice concerns about immigration, unemployment, the so-called cost of living crisis and so on. Many of the people becoming involved with the far-right are just ordinary people, with legitimate grievances, not the usual suspects at all. They are becoming involved in this way because it is the far-right which appears to be addressing their concerns, not the so-called left parties. That's my only point in this post. The question of solutions is for a different post.
All the best, and solidarity. 👍
Carpe_Noctem said:
The covid measures for example. Outright tyranny by the government. That was a wake up call for many. The alleged opposition parties opposed nothing.
So imagine the numbers gradually rising of those refusing to pay tax for example. Having come to the conclusion that taxation is theft that funds corruption wars and terrorism.
Non compliance with regards to corrupt illegitimate governments.
Why are you listening to corrupt psychopaths and pedophiles that care not for you?
So what form(s) does your 'non-compliance' take, then? I'm not having a dig at you. I'm just genuinely curious.
All the best. 👍
The covid measures for example. Outright tyranny by the government. That was a wake up call for many. The alleged opposition parties opposed nothing.
So imagine the numbers gradually rising of those refusing to pay tax for example. Having come to the conclusion that taxation is theft that funds corruption wars and terrorism.
Non compliance with regards to corrupt illegitimate governments.
Why are you listening to corrupt psychopaths and pedophiles that care not for you?
So what form(s) does your 'non-compliance' take, then? I'm not having a dig at you. I'm just genuinely curious.
All the best. 👍
ajay said:
So what form(s) does your 'non-compliance' take, then? I'm not having a dig at you. I'm just genuinely curious.
All the best. 👍
This is an interesting video
https://youtu.be/XAgMnpQJTj8?si=yQBv8cmXF4fRSs5m
So what form(s) does your 'non-compliance' take, then? I'm not having a dig at you. I'm just genuinely curious.
All the best. 👍
This is an interesting video
https://youtu.be/XAgMnpQJTj8?si=yQBv8cmXF4fRSs5m
"All I'm trying to do is to understand why this swing to the hard-right is taking place, so I can effectively argue against it on the streets and elsewhere. It will get me precisely nowhere if I simply insult people and call them a fascist/Nazi or whatever if they voice concerns about immigration, unemployment, the so-called cost of living crisis and so on. Many of the people becoming involved with the far-right are just ordinary people, with legitimate grievances, not the usual suspects at all. They are becoming involved in this way because it is the far-right which appears to be addressing their concerns, not the so-called left parties. That's my only point in this post. The question of solutions is for a different post."
The reason you are struggling is due to the Overton window shifting so far to the left, that anyone a bees willy to the right of Mao is now considered far right. The grievances and concerns are legitimate. Yet due to the fact that the lefts us or them, with us or against mentality. The far right label gets thrown around.
The left can't even define what they mean by far right . Its just another buzz word like nazi / fascist.
I'd considered my quite centrist, now look at the labels that get thrown my way.
Ethno nationalist far right supremacist.
This is the mindless automatons I keep referring to, they keep parroting the TV talking points. Yet have no actual points.
Hence all the insults and ad hominems.
Instead of recognition of those with said concerns and discussion about said issues. All we get in response is far right thugs.
Do you want a communist / authoritarian style country. Where those that disagree with the government get arrested. At the same time heinous violent criminals are released back into the community to make room for the voices dissent. Is this the future you want comrade?
The reason you are struggling is due to the Overton window shifting so far to the left, that anyone a bees willy to the right of Mao is now considered far right. The grievances and concerns are legitimate. Yet due to the fact that the lefts us or them, with us or against mentality. The far right label gets thrown around.
The left can't even define what they mean by far right . Its just another buzz word like nazi / fascist.
I'd considered my quite centrist, now look at the labels that get thrown my way.
Ethno nationalist far right supremacist.
This is the mindless automatons I keep referring to, they keep parroting the TV talking points. Yet have no actual points.
Hence all the insults and ad hominems.
Instead of recognition of those with said concerns and discussion about said issues. All we get in response is far right thugs.
Do you want a communist / authoritarian style country. Where those that disagree with the government get arrested. At the same time heinous violent criminals are released back into the community to make room for the voices dissent. Is this the future you want comrade?
Carpe_Noctem said:"All I'm trying to do is to understand why this swing to the hard-right is taking place, so I can effectively argue against it on the streets and elsewhere. It will get me precisely nowhere if I simply insult people and call them a fascist/Nazi or whatever if they voice concerns about immigration, unemployment, the so-called cost of living crisis and so on. Many of the people becoming involved with the far-right are just ordinary people, with legitimate grievances, not the usual suspects at all. They are becoming involved in this way because it is the far-right which appears to be addressing their concerns, not the so-called left parties. That's my only point in this post. The question of solutions is for a different post."
The reason you are struggling is due to the Overton window shifting so far to the left, that anyone a bees willy to the right of Mao is now considered far right. The grievances and concerns are legitimate. Yet due to the fact that the lefts us or them, with us or against mentality. The far right label gets thrown around.
The left can't even define what they mean by far right . Its just another buzz word like nazi / fascist.
I'd considered my quite centrist, now look at the labels that get thrown my way.
Ethno nationalist far right supremacist.
This is the mindless automatons I keep referring to, they keep parroting the TV talking points. Yet have no actual points.
Hence all the insults and ad hominems.
Instead of recognition of those with said concerns and discussion about said issues. All we get in response is far right thugs.
Do you want a communist / authoritarian style country. Where those that disagree with the government get arrested. At the same time heinous violent criminals are released back into the community to make room for the voices dissent. Is this the future you want comrade?
Hi, Carpe. Thanks for all of that. Very interesting. You didn't answer my question, though, so I'll ask it again:
What form(s) does your 'non-compliance', as you put it, actually take?
Best wishes.
🇬🇧🇺🇸
The reason you are struggling is due to the Overton window shifting so far to the left, that anyone a bees willy to the right of Mao is now considered far right. The grievances and concerns are legitimate. Yet due to the fact that the lefts us or them, with us or against mentality. The far right label gets thrown around.
The left can't even define what they mean by far right . Its just another buzz word like nazi / fascist.
I'd considered my quite centrist, now look at the labels that get thrown my way.
Ethno nationalist far right supremacist.
This is the mindless automatons I keep referring to, they keep parroting the TV talking points. Yet have no actual points.
Hence all the insults and ad hominems.
Instead of recognition of those with said concerns and discussion about said issues. All we get in response is far right thugs.
Do you want a communist / authoritarian style country. Where those that disagree with the government get arrested. At the same time heinous violent criminals are released back into the community to make room for the voices dissent. Is this the future you want comrade?
Hi, Carpe. Thanks for all of that. Very interesting. You didn't answer my question, though, so I'll ask it again:
What form(s) does your 'non-compliance', as you put it, actually take?
Best wishes.
🇬🇧🇺🇸
