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What Did the Angel Proclaim?
What tidings did the angel give
to Shepherds tending flocks
upon the sleepy hills near Bethlehem?
I note the Gospel does NOT say
that there was born
a babe intent to give them life
beyond the grave.
The context of this story
makes it plain
it was that this small swaddled one
would be a “David’s” son
who’d save God’s people, Israel
from the enslavement
and the depredations,
the taxations and the insults
that they’d known while under
Rome’s Imperium.
For, after all, it cannot be
denied
this was the hope that Mary showed
in her Magnificat,
and Simeon long entertained
that rested deep inside the poor
the lame, the hard oppressed
they knew the God of Israel
must satisfy and first fulfill
before all else
and to which end,
if he indeed was their
deliverer and shield,
he’d send a Savior to his Israel
to see that this was done.
And note just what
the adult Jesus said in this regard
before a gathering of his compatriots
when he so boldly spoke to them
about the purpose of his ministry:
The Spirit of the Lord has now
appointed me to make take a stand
to here announce good news unto the poor
that they would have
their poverty relieved on earth
that prisoners, would their freedom know
the blind would have their sight restored
while still alive
that the oppressed
would have within the here and now
their liberty from tyranny,
and tasked me begin within the land
God’s debt reducing
Jubilee.
So if you think the angel’s message was
there’s born today
a babe who will you guarantee
you’re heaven bound
when he announced
“a Savior has been born to you;”
you haven’t now the slightest clue
of what the content of this tiding
was about
or why it was a thing
to cause God’s people joy.
to Shepherds tending flocks
upon the sleepy hills near Bethlehem?
I note the Gospel does NOT say
that there was born
a babe intent to give them life
beyond the grave.
The context of this story
makes it plain
it was that this small swaddled one
would be a “David’s” son
who’d save God’s people, Israel
from the enslavement
and the depredations,
the taxations and the insults
that they’d known while under
Rome’s Imperium.
For, after all, it cannot be
denied
this was the hope that Mary showed
in her Magnificat,
and Simeon long entertained
that rested deep inside the poor
the lame, the hard oppressed
they knew the God of Israel
must satisfy and first fulfill
before all else
and to which end,
if he indeed was their
deliverer and shield,
he’d send a Savior to his Israel
to see that this was done.
And note just what
the adult Jesus said in this regard
before a gathering of his compatriots
when he so boldly spoke to them
about the purpose of his ministry:
The Spirit of the Lord has now
appointed me to make take a stand
to here announce good news unto the poor
that they would have
their poverty relieved on earth
that prisoners, would their freedom know
the blind would have their sight restored
while still alive
that the oppressed
would have within the here and now
their liberty from tyranny,
and tasked me begin within the land
God’s debt reducing
Jubilee.
So if you think the angel’s message was
there’s born today
a babe who will you guarantee
you’re heaven bound
when he announced
“a Savior has been born to you;”
you haven’t now the slightest clue
of what the content of this tiding
was about
or why it was a thing
to cause God’s people joy.
Published 23rd Dec 2022
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24th Dec 2022 11:53am
Dear Baldwin,
I really pity you if this is what you choose about Jesus from the New Testament. You understand the salvation that Jesus came to give is a political and national one. You contort the passages to serve your purpose. What is meant to be be spiritual, you make it national and political. Jesus for you is a political leader. He is very far from that. WHERE DO YOU LOOK FOR INNER HAPPINESS, Baldwin? If you don't believe in spiritual salvation, how can you speak about the God of spirituality?
I really pity you if this is what you choose about Jesus from the New Testament. You understand the salvation that Jesus came to give is a political and national one. You contort the passages to serve your purpose. What is meant to be be spiritual, you make it national and political. Jesus for you is a political leader. He is very far from that. WHERE DO YOU LOOK FOR INNER HAPPINESS, Baldwin? If you don't believe in spiritual salvation, how can you speak about the God of spirituality?
Pity away.
But please answer me this: Do you have any formal training in New Testament studies? Do you hold any degree, let alone an advanced one, in theology from an accredited academic institution?
And what do you do with the Gospel reports (especially in Matthew 5-7) that Jesus taught a social ethic as mandatory for anyone who would be his follower and was acting as a prophet who was calling his nation to a new understanding of what was entailed in being God's people.
As to contorting NT texts to demonstrate that Jesus was "political", I'm following what is set out in this regard by G.B. Caird in his "Jesus and the Jewish Nation"
https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/emwl/jesus_caird.pdf
and by John Howard Yoder in his _The Politics of Jesus_
https://www.scribd.com/book/501966738/The-Politics-of-Jesus
as well as by N.T. Wright in his _Jesus and the Victory of God_
https://repository.globethics.net/handle/20.500.12424/161679
and Scott McKnight in his _A New Vision for Israel: The Teachings of Jesus in National Context (Studying the Historical Jesus)
https://www.amazon.com/New-Vision-Israel-Teachings-Historical/dp/0802842127
and by Dom Crossan in his _God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now_
https://www.amazon.com/God-Empire-Jesus-Against-Rome/dp/B08Z9W52BD
Perhaps you'll do me the favor of using your vast biblical and historical knowledge to **demonstrate** how and why these scholars are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered not in "spirituality" (whatever that means) but in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations.
And where in the NT is God or Jesus described, let alone shown to be, the God of "spirituality"?
But please answer me this: Do you have any formal training in New Testament studies? Do you hold any degree, let alone an advanced one, in theology from an accredited academic institution?
And what do you do with the Gospel reports (especially in Matthew 5-7) that Jesus taught a social ethic as mandatory for anyone who would be his follower and was acting as a prophet who was calling his nation to a new understanding of what was entailed in being God's people.
As to contorting NT texts to demonstrate that Jesus was "political", I'm following what is set out in this regard by G.B. Caird in his "Jesus and the Jewish Nation"
https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/emwl/jesus_caird.pdf
and by John Howard Yoder in his _The Politics of Jesus_
https://www.scribd.com/book/501966738/The-Politics-of-Jesus
as well as by N.T. Wright in his _Jesus and the Victory of God_
https://repository.globethics.net/handle/20.500.12424/161679
and Scott McKnight in his _A New Vision for Israel: The Teachings of Jesus in National Context (Studying the Historical Jesus)
https://www.amazon.com/New-Vision-Israel-Teachings-Historical/dp/0802842127
and by Dom Crossan in his _God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now_
https://www.amazon.com/God-Empire-Jesus-Against-Rome/dp/B08Z9W52BD
Perhaps you'll do me the favor of using your vast biblical and historical knowledge to **demonstrate** how and why these scholars are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered not in "spirituality" (whatever that means) but in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations.
And where in the NT is God or Jesus described, let alone shown to be, the God of "spirituality"?
24th Dec 2022 2:01pm
"WHERE DO YOU LOOK FOR INNER HAPPINESS, Baldwin?"
Who says I look for this? And where I do or do not look for any happiness has nothing to do with what Luke says Jesus proclaimed the purpose his [Jesus'] mission was, let alone whether I have contorted (did you mean "distorted"?) what the NT says in this regard.
If anyone is to be pitied here, it's you -- for holding on to your Gnostic (and heretical) view of who Jesus was and what he "came" to do..
Who says I look for this? And where I do or do not look for any happiness has nothing to do with what Luke says Jesus proclaimed the purpose his [Jesus'] mission was, let alone whether I have contorted (did you mean "distorted"?) what the NT says in this regard.
If anyone is to be pitied here, it's you -- for holding on to your Gnostic (and heretical) view of who Jesus was and what he "came" to do..
24th Dec 2022 1:25pm
24th Dec 2022 1:33pm
The issue isn't what I believe about "spirituality" but what you mean by it. After all, it's not a term I used.
24th Dec 2022 1:53pm
Yes, you did. But it's not my term. Since you're the one who claimed that the NT speaks of a God of spirituality, it's your responsibility, not mine, to say what the term means.
In any case, the issue at hand is the validity of your claim that the NT does not present Jesus as interested in, and vitally, let alone primarily, involved with, the question of what path his nation Israel should take in order to "preserve her character as [God's] holy nation in a world overrun and controlled by pagans?" (Caird, 7).
What I mean by a term I did not use has no bearing on that issue.
,
In any case, the issue at hand is the validity of your claim that the NT does not present Jesus as interested in, and vitally, let alone primarily, involved with, the question of what path his nation Israel should take in order to "preserve her character as [God's] holy nation in a world overrun and controlled by pagans?" (Caird, 7).
What I mean by a term I did not use has no bearing on that issue.
,
24th Dec 2022 2:26pm
You say that God or Jesus Christ is not the God of spirituality. I ask,"What do you mean by SPIRITUALITY if Jesus Christ is not the God of spirituality?"
I did NOT say that God or Jesus was not the "God of Spirituality". I asked where in the NT God or Jesus was presented as who YOU said he was -- a question you have not yet answered.
To wit:
"Perhaps you'll do me the favor of using your vast biblical and historical knowledge to demonstrate how and why these scholars are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered not in "spirituality" (whatever that means) but in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations.
And where in the NT is God or Jesus described, let alone shown to be, the God of "spirituality"?"
So once again you are putting words in my mouth.
And you are avoiding fulfilling my request that you demonstrate how and why Caird et al. are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations. and to avoid destruction at the hands of the Romans.
Why is that?
To wit:
"Perhaps you'll do me the favor of using your vast biblical and historical knowledge to demonstrate how and why these scholars are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered not in "spirituality" (whatever that means) but in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations.
And where in the NT is God or Jesus described, let alone shown to be, the God of "spirituality"?"
So once again you are putting words in my mouth.
And you are avoiding fulfilling my request that you demonstrate how and why Caird et al. are wrong to assert that Jesus' ministry was centered in calling Israel to a new sense of what it had to do in order to be what God wanted his people to be, especially if they were to be a light to all nations. and to avoid destruction at the hands of the Romans.
Why is that?
