deepundergroundpoetry.com
Ravager
I’ve now become
invisible
to women I desire.
I’m easily ignored.
and overlooked.
And if
within an accidental moment
I am seen by chance,
I’m easily discounted
as a man
not worth a second glance.
Age the ravager
age the savager
has stripped my flesh
of any comeliness
or kindling fire.
invisible
to women I desire.
I’m easily ignored.
and overlooked.
And if
within an accidental moment
I am seen by chance,
I’m easily discounted
as a man
not worth a second glance.
Age the ravager
age the savager
has stripped my flesh
of any comeliness
or kindling fire.
Author's Note
What I want when I ask for honest criticism is an articulate thought-filled analysis of how and why I do or do not use the literary devices peculiar to poetry that a writer needs to use for his or her attempt at poetry to effectively bring a reader inside an experience. Â So if you wish to comment on my submissions, please give me what I request.
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Commenting Preference:
The author encourages honest critique.
Re. Ravager
31st Jan 2025 12:51pm
"" within an accidental moment
I am seen by chance, ""
there's a repetition here, accidental moment means seen by chance..
a chance is an accident, sio why do you repeat it.
Neverthless; i see a good composition as its purely yours not Ai genrated like so many others here..
I am seen by chance, ""
there's a repetition here, accidental moment means seen by chance..
a chance is an accident, sio why do you repeat it.
Neverthless; i see a good composition as its purely yours not Ai genrated like so many others here..
1

Re: Re. Ravager
"there's a repetition here, accidental moment means seen by chance..
a chance is an accident, sio [SIC]why do you repeat it."
I was looking for an adjective that would modfiy "moment" to suggest that the moment was something that I was not expecting. to happen., but did. Perhaps some other adjective would be more suitable..
"Neverthless; [SIC] I [SIC]see a good composition as its [SIC] purely yours not Ai generated [SIC] like so many others here"
Really? Which ones are AI-generated? How can you tell that they are?..
a chance is an accident, sio [SIC]why do you repeat it."
I was looking for an adjective that would modfiy "moment" to suggest that the moment was something that I was not expecting. to happen., but did. Perhaps some other adjective would be more suitable..
"Neverthless; [SIC] I [SIC]see a good composition as its [SIC] purely yours not Ai generated [SIC] like so many others here"
Really? Which ones are AI-generated? How can you tell that they are?..
Re. Ravager
i dont judge you for the vocabulary used, its your own predilection and its good, but, dont you know that Ravager suggests destruction, war, cruelty barbarism and all the saage vocabulary, but you used it for the nostalgic theme tackled here, about aging and losing liveliness and charm....though !!!!
I can easily discern fake from genuine poetry.. and i dare you to write a poem of your own, and one by AiI and i can tell you which is fake and which is yours....Kudos !!!
I can easily discern fake from genuine poetry.. and i dare you to write a poem of your own, and one by AiI and i can tell you which is fake and which is yours....Kudos !!!
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 12:28pm
i dont [SIC] judge you for the vocabulary used, its [SIC ]your own predilection [SIC ,] and its [SIC] good, but, don't [SIC] you know that Ravager suggests destruction, war, cruelty barbarism [sic ,]and all the saage [SIC ]vocabulary, but you used it for the nostalgic theme tackled here, about aging and losing liveliness and charm....though !!!!"
I used it because age has destroyed my looks and therefore is a ravager.
"I can easily discern fake from genuine poetry.. and I[SIC] dare you to write a poem of your own, and one by AiI and I [sic]can tell you which is fake and which is yours....Kudos !!!"
If you say so. Would you care to point to some of the poems posted here that have been AI-generated?
I used it because age has destroyed my looks and therefore is a ravager.
"I can easily discern fake from genuine poetry.. and I[SIC] dare you to write a poem of your own, and one by AiI and I [sic]can tell you which is fake and which is yours....Kudos !!!"
If you say so. Would you care to point to some of the poems posted here that have been AI-generated?
Re: Re. Ravager
Yes, i can. but due respect must be given to the sick poets o here,
who seek cathartic relief and healing through poetry..
some poets here just copy and paste, and i cant show who they are....but i tell you if you write fake or genuine poetry i can see
the difference easily....
---
these are some flaws of the Ai poetry.
--reccurent themes and expressions, and words always repeated...
---turning about the bush without saying anything concrete or meaningfull.
----you cant see where the theme is heading to.....etc......
----
send me a couple of yours and a Ai poem, i tell you..
who seek cathartic relief and healing through poetry..
some poets here just copy and paste, and i cant show who they are....but i tell you if you write fake or genuine poetry i can see
the difference easily....
---
these are some flaws of the Ai poetry.
--reccurent themes and expressions, and words always repeated...
---turning about the bush without saying anything concrete or meaningfull.
----you cant see where the theme is heading to.....etc......
----
send me a couple of yours and a Ai poem, i tell you..
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 1:44pm
"Yes, i [SIC] can. [point to examples of AI-generated poetry] but due respect must be given to the sick poets o [SIC] her,who seek cathartic relief and healing through poetry.."
Really? Why?. And how is pointing out that a "sick poet's submission is an AI-generated piece disrespectful to t him or her?
"these are some flaws of the Ai poetry. Â
Â
--reccurent [SIC] themes and expressions, Â and words always repeated... Â
---turning about the bush without saying anything concrete or meaningful. [SIC] Â
Â
----you cant [SIC] see where the theme is heading to.....etc...... Â "
Aren't these also the flaws of people who write their own submissions but have no real poetic talent?
Really? Why?. And how is pointing out that a "sick poet's submission is an AI-generated piece disrespectful to t him or her?
"these are some flaws of the Ai poetry. Â
Â
--reccurent [SIC] themes and expressions, Â and words always repeated... Â
---turning about the bush without saying anything concrete or meaningful. [SIC] Â
Â
----you cant [SIC] see where the theme is heading to.....etc...... Â "
Aren't these also the flaws of people who write their own submissions but have no real poetic talent?
Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 1:47pm
""I asked for two Ai and human creation, you didnt give..""
so its been fun talking with you, regards and farewell.
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Re: Re. Ravager
"""I asked for two Ai and human creation [SIC] you didn't [SIC] give..""
so its [SIC] been fun talking with you, regards and farewell."
And I asked for you to give me examples of pieces submitted to DUP that you already knew were AI-generated, but you kept finding ways to dodge doing so.
I wonder why? Could it be that you made a claim that you can't back up?
so its [SIC] been fun talking with you, regards and farewell."
And I asked for you to give me examples of pieces submitted to DUP that you already knew were AI-generated, but you kept finding ways to dodge doing so.
I wonder why? Could it be that you made a claim that you can't back up?
Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 2:21pm
some poets wrire rhyming abab......or abba.......and so. aabb......rhyming poems; and dont even reply to poets comments;they use Ai...poetry..
you can find them, and there also those who write long proxe stories..
you can find them, and there also those who write long proxe stories..
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 2:34pm
It is not my job to find the poems you claim you already know are AI-generated.
Please give me the titles of at least two submissions to DUP that you know for certain were AI-generated.
Please give me the titles of at least two submissions to DUP that you know for certain were AI-generated.
Re: Re. Ravager
Sorry, i cant give you any title, you will surely find out who uses AI.
generated poems..
look for poems not replied to, and look liike automatic creation....
if you are so smart as you think, you can easily find them...
thank you
generated poems..
look for poems not replied to, and look liike automatic creation....
if you are so smart as you think, you can easily find them...
thank you
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 2:41pm
"some poets wrire rhyming abab."
You mean like this one?
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/532518-winter-glow/
You mean like this one?
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/532518-winter-glow/
Re: Re. Ravager
I am now, more than sure why poets dont comment on your weak words, coz simply you are compiicated guy,
Grow up, before you write poetry....
Grow up, before you write poetry....
1

Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 2:55pm
you may not be noticed because you don't use a direct approach love is not so much intellectual but an emotion that sometimes baffles having no reason as far as critique you request it but I haven't really seen you interact with anyone over the years...
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 3:57pm
Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 4:09pm
well for instance if you like someone tell them they are unlikely to know otherwise you may send mixed signals...
0

Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 4:45pm
You have not read my piece carefully. What the narrator says and is complaining about is that because of what age has done to him he is no longer regarded by women he finds attractive as an object of desire and worth a second look. In fact, he knows that if he used the direct approach that you suggest he employ, he knows that he'd be regarded as a dirty old man.
Re: Re. Ravager
1st Feb 2025 8:18pm
that's too bad not to be recognized anymore as someone with passion must hurt...
0

Re. Ravager
5th Feb 2025 5:16pm
Hi, Baldwin.
Why have you chosen to set out the poem in two ragged, uneven verses?
Regards.
Why have you chosen to set out the poem in two ragged, uneven verses?
Regards.
0

Re: Re. Ravager
I'm not sure what you mean by "ragged" or "uneven", let alone that my first two verses are ragged and uneven..
Re: Re. Ravager
I mean two verses of unequal length with line breaks in all the wrong places.
Plus, 'comeliness' is entirely the wrong noun when used in relation to a man.
And Is 'striped' a typo?
It seems as if you've just scribbled down the poem in two minutes flat and not bothered to read it through again. Consequently, your footnote asking for thoughtful criticism strikes me as a bit rich, to be honest.
Plus, 'comeliness' is entirely the wrong noun when used in relation to a man.
And Is 'striped' a typo?
It seems as if you've just scribbled down the poem in two minutes flat and not bothered to read it through again. Consequently, your footnote asking for thoughtful criticism strikes me as a bit rich, to be honest.
0

Re: Re. Ravager
Thank you for your remarks.
". I mean two verses of unequal length with line breaks in all the wrong places. "
But I was unaware, as you also seem to be given the way several of your submissions are set out, that all lines in a poem had to be of the same length or that there were rules regarding where line breaks must occur.
Perhaps you will point me to authoritative handbooks on how poetry should be written that show me these things.
In the meantime, you might want to have a look at a poem by award-winning poet Mary Oliver entitled "Fall" to see that lines of unequal length and peculiar line breaks are unacceptable in poetry.
https://apoemaday.tumblr.com/post/702916361399287808/fall
"Plus, 'comeliness' is entirely the wrong noun when used in relation to a man"."
According to many dictionaries, "comeliness" mess means "the quality of being good-looking or attractive"
see e.g. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/comeliness
ee
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comely
So it is not a "wrong word" here.
"And Is 'striped' a typo? "
Yes, it should be stripped. Thanks for pointing this out.
". I mean two verses of unequal length with line breaks in all the wrong places. "
But I was unaware, as you also seem to be given the way several of your submissions are set out, that all lines in a poem had to be of the same length or that there were rules regarding where line breaks must occur.
Perhaps you will point me to authoritative handbooks on how poetry should be written that show me these things.
In the meantime, you might want to have a look at a poem by award-winning poet Mary Oliver entitled "Fall" to see that lines of unequal length and peculiar line breaks are unacceptable in poetry.
https://apoemaday.tumblr.com/post/702916361399287808/fall
"Plus, 'comeliness' is entirely the wrong noun when used in relation to a man"."
According to many dictionaries, "comeliness" mess means "the quality of being good-looking or attractive"
see e.g. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/comeliness
ee
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comely
So it is not a "wrong word" here.
"And Is 'striped' a typo? "
Yes, it should be stripped. Thanks for pointing this out.
Re: Re. Ravager
".. line breaks[are] in all the wrong places."
OK. Where should they have been.? And what criteria do you use to say that they should have been elsewhere?
OK. Where should they have been.? And what criteria do you use to say that they should have been elsewhere?
Re: Re. Ravager
Hi again, Baldwin.
Two points:
First, I have never seen the word 'comely' used in relation to a man. My 'New Oxford Dictionary of English' gives:
'pleasant to look at; attractive
(typically used of a woman).
the comely Italian actress Valeria Golino'.
Secondly, with regard to line/verse length and line breaks, of course I'm aware that lines can be of unequal length, and that in non-formal verse there are no 'rules' determining where line-breaks should occur. Generally, however, there are sound reasons why in non-formal verse poets break their lines where they do, or have verses of unequal length. Your poem appears to lack, to me at least, any reason for both its inappropriate line-breaks or verse length. But see my comments below.
I think your poem falls naturally into three quatrains of a largely iambic metre. I'll go through it line by line.
The first four words of your poem is a nice iambic tetrameter:
I’ve now become invisible
I would put the line-break after 'invisible'. A reader will read the line and think, 'What?' Their eye will naturally read on to the second line and they'll realise why the narrator has become invisible. Then they'll be into the poem. Breaking the line after 'become' spoils this effect. Also, placing the word ''invisibe' on a line by itself makes the word very visible indeed, which goes against the sense of the word and makes for bad poetry. The rest of that verse is fine, I would say.
Moving on to the second verse, the first commenter on the poem has already pointed out the tautology – 'accidental' 'chance' – in the first two lines, so one of those words has to go. I'd amend the wording slightly, remove the nonsensical line-break after 'if', cut 'accidental' and set out the lines as:
And if at any moment
I am seen by chance,
To keep to the three-quatrain layout, I'd end the verse after 'glance' seting out its last two lines as:
I’m easily discounted
as a man not worth a second glance.
For the third and final verse
Age the ravager,
age the savager
is fine. In the final two lines 'comeliness', as I've said, is a word usually associated with a woman not a man. I'd find a more apposite word to replace it, if I were you. (See below for lay-out.)
To recap and conclude, I'd set out the poem like this:
Ravager
I’ve now become invisible
to women I desire.
I’m easily ignored.
and overlooked;
and if at any moment
I am seen by chance,
I’m easily discounted
as a man not worth a second glance.
Age the ravager,
age the savager
has stripped my flesh
of any [ ... ] or kindling fire.
You'd have to fill in the blank in the fourth line of the final verse.
All that's just my poor opinion, though, so if you think it's a load of balls just say so. 🙃
Best wishes.
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Re: Re. Ravager
Today 11:58am
""I have never seen the word 'comely' used in relation to a man. My 'New Oxford Dictionary of English' gives: 'pleasant to look at; attractive (typically used of a woman). the comely Italian actress Valeria Golino'"
This is a fine example of the fallacy known as the appeal to personal incredulity" -- "I have never seen X, applied to Y; therefore it is wrong to apply X to Y.
In any case, the word I question is "comliness" not "comely.
I'll take your other comments into consideration. But I note that you did nor fulfill my request to point me to any authoritative handbook o writing poetry that comfirs your claims about when and where line breaks are inappropriate..
.
This is a fine example of the fallacy known as the appeal to personal incredulity" -- "I have never seen X, applied to Y; therefore it is wrong to apply X to Y.
In any case, the word I question is "comliness" not "comely.
I'll take your other comments into consideration. But I note that you did nor fulfill my request to point me to any authoritative handbook o writing poetry that comfirs your claims about when and where line breaks are inappropriate..
.
Re. Ravager
6th Feb 2025 7:31pm
My dear Baldy
Your author's note amounts to poor judgment and is likely to alienate any readers you might attract.
I suspect you may not realise it but the exchanges you generate in the comments on your poems often prove more entertaining than the poems themselves.
If you wish to excel as a poet my advice is to channel all your energy into what you write rather than squander it on pretentious nitpicking
There are many compensations that come with age, btw. Tolerance of conflicting opinions is just one.
Best regards~ Abra
Your author's note amounts to poor judgment and is likely to alienate any readers you might attract.
I suspect you may not realise it but the exchanges you generate in the comments on your poems often prove more entertaining than the poems themselves.
If you wish to excel as a poet my advice is to channel all your energy into what you write rather than squander it on pretentious nitpicking
There are many compensations that come with age, btw. Tolerance of conflicting opinions is just one.
Best regards~ Abra
1

Re: Re. Ravager
"Your author's note amounts to poor judgment ".
Please do me the kindness of telling me how my note on what I'd like to receive from those who wish to respond to my submissions is something that amounts to "poor judgement" on my part?
Please do me the kindness of telling me how my note on what I'd like to receive from those who wish to respond to my submissions is something that amounts to "poor judgement" on my part?
Re: Re. Ravager
6th Feb 2025 9:35pm
Let us not pussyfoot around the real issue here --which is not whether you consider your author's note is likely to encourage the reader to respond as you would wish.
Put simply, you are more than capable of creating poems that entertain without adopting a hair shirt mentality when responding to feedback.
I'll refrain from any further discussion, B as I am currently time poor with important work to attend to.
(Nuke typo in L1 of author's note)
Put simply, you are more than capable of creating poems that entertain without adopting a hair shirt mentality when responding to feedback.
I'll refrain from any further discussion, B as I am currently time poor with important work to attend to.
(Nuke typo in L1 of author's note)
0

Re: Re. Ravager
"Let us not pussyfoot around the real issue here --which is not whether you consider your author's note is likely to encourage the reader to respond as you would wish."
Assuming that this IS the real issue, my answer is "No, I don't consider my note as something likely to " encourage" readers of my submissions to respond to them in any way. It is nothing more than a statement about what I consider "criticism (critique) entails. I trust that I am allowed to state this.
What is it you are hoping to receive when you note as you do that you would like to have "honest criticism" of your submissions?
..
Assuming that this IS the real issue, my answer is "No, I don't consider my note as something likely to " encourage" readers of my submissions to respond to them in any way. It is nothing more than a statement about what I consider "criticism (critique) entails. I trust that I am allowed to state this.
What is it you are hoping to receive when you note as you do that you would like to have "honest criticism" of your submissions?
..