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HAPPIER THAN YOU IMAGINE
HAPPIER THAN YOU IMAGINE
Is your love for those around you
just for some-time or forever?
If it's just for worldly periods
cruel is death for minded mankind.
How can you depart with all those
who have left you to your sorrow?
What can compensate that feeling
if no meeting is to follow?
What's your hope if you are walking
to a change that makes you nothing?
From mere nothing to another
never gives you satisfaction.
Man, you're walking to that pleasure
where you'll meet your sublime Father,
Who has made you for that rapture
to rejoin your dearest darlings.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
Is your love for those around you
just for some-time or forever?
If it's just for worldly periods
cruel is death for minded mankind.
How can you depart with all those
who have left you to your sorrow?
What can compensate that feeling
if no meeting is to follow?
What's your hope if you are walking
to a change that makes you nothing?
From mere nothing to another
never gives you satisfaction.
Man, you're walking to that pleasure
where you'll meet your sublime Father,
Who has made you for that rapture
to rejoin your dearest darlings.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
Published 9th Feb 2023
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Two questions:
1. Do people have bodies in the "afterlife"?
2. What kind of joy can those who are expecting to see their "darlings" in the afterlife actually have when, after getting to 'heaven", then discover that their "darlings" have been consigned to hell? l After all, you assert that what brings people joy to a person is meeting up again in the afterlife with loved ones who a person has been deprived of by death. So according to you, if there is no meeting in heaven with loved ones who have died, there is no, and cannot be any, joy.
I ask you to answer both questions.
1. Do people have bodies in the "afterlife"?
2. What kind of joy can those who are expecting to see their "darlings" in the afterlife actually have when, after getting to 'heaven", then discover that their "darlings" have been consigned to hell? l After all, you assert that what brings people joy to a person is meeting up again in the afterlife with loved ones who a person has been deprived of by death. So according to you, if there is no meeting in heaven with loved ones who have died, there is no, and cannot be any, joy.
I ask you to answer both questions.
"How can you depart with all those
who have left you to your sorrow?"
If by "depart" you mean "die", the answer to this question is: "you can't".
If by "depart" you meant "leave" then you should have written "depart from", not "depart with".
who have left you to your sorrow?"
If by "depart" you mean "die", the answer to this question is: "you can't".
If by "depart" you meant "leave" then you should have written "depart from", not "depart with".
1- No, they don't have bodies. They live in the spirits.
2- l suppose they are good people, and they are in heaven.
3- The spirit will stay alive according to Christianity. Moreover, meeting God is
a great happiness.
3- l mean by, depart, separated from.
2- l suppose they are good people, and they are in heaven.
3- The spirit will stay alive according to Christianity. Moreover, meeting God is
a great happiness.
3- l mean by, depart, separated from.
"1- No, they don't have bodies. They live with their spirits." [changed now by you to "they live in the spirits" which raises the question of which spirits do bodiless dead people live in?]
But spirits don't have eyes, so they cannot see anything. And something that has no body has none of the physical characteristics that are necessary for the recognition of someone as a person you know or have known.
Whether or not the New Testament asserts that a person has a spirit that stays "alive" on its own without God sustaining it in some ghostly realm after one's body dies (quite against the Old Testament understanding of death as oblivion [see Job and 2 Maccabees] and the New Testament) the Bible attests that the true destiny of the righteous is an embodied state on the renewed earth. Please show me the New Testament texts that indisputably support the idea that after death a person is aware of being anywhere not on earth, let alone is capable of recognizing other persons who inhabit "heaven".
But it is a fact that people love others who, according to "Christianity" and Islamill will end up in hell. So there will be "loved ones" who will not be "in heaven" tp meet us when we die.
And you said the source of happiness is meeting your loved ones in heaven, not meeting God. So according to you, those who do not meet their loved ones in heaven are deprived of what you have said is the very thing that gives a person hope for a happiness that it not curtailed by becoming nothing.
So then the question is "how can you be "separated from" all those who have left you to your sorrows." not "how can you be separated with ..?" And the answer is easy. They have abandoned you. They have moved away. They . have died. If you meant to ask "how can you enjoy life if death has deprived you of those you loved?", that's also easy to answer. You grieve for a while and then you go on with your life as countless people have done when a person they loved dies.
But spirits don't have eyes, so they cannot see anything. And something that has no body has none of the physical characteristics that are necessary for the recognition of someone as a person you know or have known.
Whether or not the New Testament asserts that a person has a spirit that stays "alive" on its own without God sustaining it in some ghostly realm after one's body dies (quite against the Old Testament understanding of death as oblivion [see Job and 2 Maccabees] and the New Testament) the Bible attests that the true destiny of the righteous is an embodied state on the renewed earth. Please show me the New Testament texts that indisputably support the idea that after death a person is aware of being anywhere not on earth, let alone is capable of recognizing other persons who inhabit "heaven".
But it is a fact that people love others who, according to "Christianity" and Islamill will end up in hell. So there will be "loved ones" who will not be "in heaven" tp meet us when we die.
And you said the source of happiness is meeting your loved ones in heaven, not meeting God. So according to you, those who do not meet their loved ones in heaven are deprived of what you have said is the very thing that gives a person hope for a happiness that it not curtailed by becoming nothing.
So then the question is "how can you be "separated from" all those who have left you to your sorrows." not "how can you be separated with ..?" And the answer is easy. They have abandoned you. They have moved away. They . have died. If you meant to ask "how can you enjoy life if death has deprived you of those you loved?", that's also easy to answer. You grieve for a while and then you go on with your life as countless people have done when a person they loved dies.
10th Feb 2023 7:49pm
Dear Baldwin,
What will happen to the spirit? You mean to say there is no heaven or hell in Christianity.
What will happen to the spirit? You mean to say there is no heaven or hell in Christianity.
"What will happen to the spirit? You mean to say there is no heaven or hell in Christianity."
I mean to say that according to the New Testament, the destiny of dead human beings is a resurrected bodily life on a renewed earth -- something you would know if you actually had the slightest degree of expertise in the New Testament writings as well as in the Creeds which say nothing about "spirits" permanently abiding in some ghostly realm above the earth, but affirm that a fundamental belief that separates Christians from Gnostic heretics like yourself is the expectation of a resurrected body that God will make to dwell upon a renewed earth.
In any case, you've not provided any evidence that shows that it is possible for an entity that has no means of sight can recognize as a former loved one an entity that has none of the physical characteristics by which a particular person was recognized as that person.
Nor have you produced any New Testament texts that indisputably demonstrate that New Testament writers believed that a person's spirit remains "alive "on its own (as Plato thought the soul did) after that person dies.
And then there's the strange idea that "departs with" means the same thing as "separates from".
I mean to say that according to the New Testament, the destiny of dead human beings is a resurrected bodily life on a renewed earth -- something you would know if you actually had the slightest degree of expertise in the New Testament writings as well as in the Creeds which say nothing about "spirits" permanently abiding in some ghostly realm above the earth, but affirm that a fundamental belief that separates Christians from Gnostic heretics like yourself is the expectation of a resurrected body that God will make to dwell upon a renewed earth.
In any case, you've not provided any evidence that shows that it is possible for an entity that has no means of sight can recognize as a former loved one an entity that has none of the physical characteristics by which a particular person was recognized as that person.
Nor have you produced any New Testament texts that indisputably demonstrate that New Testament writers believed that a person's spirit remains "alive "on its own (as Plato thought the soul did) after that person dies.
And then there's the strange idea that "departs with" means the same thing as "separates from".
"Is your love for those around you
just for some-time [sic] or forever?"
As long as I've not been betrayed, my love for certain people "around me" (and even physically far away from me as well as those who are no longer living) lasts until I die. It can't exist if there is no one to engage in loving anyone.
"If it's just for worldly periods
cruel is death for minded mankind."
Yes, it is just for "worldly periods". As Job notes, those who are dead cannot feel anything. And that our only chance of loving anyone is when we are alive and conscious.
That the world is cruel in that death takes those whom we love away from us is a fact of life. Deal with it.
The idea that we will be able to love those whom death has deprived us of after we die since we will continue to exist in a noncorporeal yet conscious state is wishful thinking that has no indisputable evidence to support it. And your continual harping in dull and poorly worded and question-begging verse that life has no meaning or possibilities for knowing joy unless there is some ghostly "life" after death grows tiresome.
just for some-time [sic] or forever?"
As long as I've not been betrayed, my love for certain people "around me" (and even physically far away from me as well as those who are no longer living) lasts until I die. It can't exist if there is no one to engage in loving anyone.
"If it's just for worldly periods
cruel is death for minded mankind."
Yes, it is just for "worldly periods". As Job notes, those who are dead cannot feel anything. And that our only chance of loving anyone is when we are alive and conscious.
That the world is cruel in that death takes those whom we love away from us is a fact of life. Deal with it.
The idea that we will be able to love those whom death has deprived us of after we die since we will continue to exist in a noncorporeal yet conscious state is wishful thinking that has no indisputable evidence to support it. And your continual harping in dull and poorly worded and question-begging verse that life has no meaning or possibilities for knowing joy unless there is some ghostly "life" after death grows tiresome.
TIRESOME for those who don't believe, but for BELIEVERS, it is great HOPE and HAPPINESS which nothing can give except FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.
Thanks for the red herring.
The issue is not whether the hope of a life after death is tiresome to believers, let alone who and how many believe in it or take comfort in believing in it, or even the validity of the claim that it is only faith in Jesus that gives mankind hope that there is a life after death (that whirring sound you here is Plato spinning in his grave).
It is whether ***the fact that all you seem to write about*** nowadays is how life has no meaning unless there is a life after death is tiresome, especially since your submissions on this topic are perpetually filled with question-begging assertions, show little acquaintance with what the New Testament says on how the New Testament writers believed the God of Israel will deal with death and will treat those who die and what it notes one's personal eschatology is, and how your writings on this topic continually reek of Gnostic theology, preachy proclamations about humankind's final destiny, and how often they are misworded and conceptually contradictory.
So you've surveyed every "believer" in Jesus to see whether they all think that **your particular harping** on how it is only life after death that gives all of humankind hope and earthly life meaning and that "the [sic] faith" in Jesus is the only thing that gives humankind happiness is not tiresome, let alone poetically dull?
Cue more red herrings if not also at least one ad hominem attack upon my person.
The issue is not whether the hope of a life after death is tiresome to believers, let alone who and how many believe in it or take comfort in believing in it, or even the validity of the claim that it is only faith in Jesus that gives mankind hope that there is a life after death (that whirring sound you here is Plato spinning in his grave).
It is whether ***the fact that all you seem to write about*** nowadays is how life has no meaning unless there is a life after death is tiresome, especially since your submissions on this topic are perpetually filled with question-begging assertions, show little acquaintance with what the New Testament says on how the New Testament writers believed the God of Israel will deal with death and will treat those who die and what it notes one's personal eschatology is, and how your writings on this topic continually reek of Gnostic theology, preachy proclamations about humankind's final destiny, and how often they are misworded and conceptually contradictory.
So you've surveyed every "believer" in Jesus to see whether they all think that **your particular harping** on how it is only life after death that gives all of humankind hope and earthly life meaning and that "the [sic] faith" in Jesus is the only thing that gives humankind happiness is not tiresome, let alone poetically dull?
Cue more red herrings if not also at least one ad hominem attack upon my person.
