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LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
God is mighty. He has made
all the universe and man.
Endless power, none can match.
All are little in His hands.
And His love for man's immense
as He gave him His own form,
same outlook His son had had,
which can show His love for man.
God the Father is a soul,
but His Son has flesh and bones;
Christ is God but can be seen
and He shares Him His own Soul.
Man can't love Whom He ignores.
First, he saw his mighty Lord,
and he loved Him much, so much
as His mien can be adored.
Then He died in flesh to save
man from his most painful sins.
When he sees His love is great,
man will know that God is love.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
God is mighty. He has made
all the universe and man.
Endless power, none can match.
All are little in His hands.
And His love for man's immense
as He gave him His own form,
same outlook His son had had,
which can show His love for man.
God the Father is a soul,
but His Son has flesh and bones;
Christ is God but can be seen
and He shares Him His own Soul.
Man can't love Whom He ignores.
First, he saw his mighty Lord,
and he loved Him much, so much
as His mien can be adored.
Then He died in flesh to save
man from his most painful sins.
When he sees His love is great,
man will know that God is love.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
23rd Oct 2021 5:43pm
First verse reminds me of a talk our then pastor's son gave in church when he said of God 'He holds the universe in His hands, he could be considered a Cosmic King Kong!'. (He has since gone one to be a pastor at churches elsewhere.)
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Re: Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
The analogy is a very poor one. Besides the fact that Kong never held the world in his hands, he was a savage beast who, as Carl Denham noted, was killed by beauty.
Save me from such poor, ill-conceived theological assertions.
Save me from such poor, ill-conceived theological assertions.
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Re: Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
24th Oct 2021 7:04am
I'm sure he was taking the scale beyond that shown in the famous movies (Hollywood presentations have limitations, they're man made after all), holding planets in His hands.
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Re: Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
24th Oct 2021 3:01pm
Thanks for the dodge of my observation that the analogy is poor because Kong was a savage beast who was tamed and eventually brought to death by "beauty" and that in thinking that it was not poor, the pastor's son was theologically inept.
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
23rd Oct 2021 5:55pm
"God the Father is a soul,
but His Son has flesh and bones;
Christ is God but can be seen
and He shares [with]Him His own Soul."
Leaving aside the fact that without "with" after "shares" the statement "He shares Him His own soul" is solecistic , is it really true that according to Christian theology God the Father is a soul? Please show me not only where in the New Testament or in any authoritative orthodox Creed (e.g,, the Apostles', Nicean, Nicaean-Constantinopolitan, Chalcedonian, Athanasian creeds) or even those of Arius and Euzoius) God the Father is said to be a soul, but where it is stated that a "soul" is what God the Father shares with Jesus.
Cue the ad hominem about my knowledge of grammar and crickets or a red herring as the reply to my request for evidence that in Christian theology God the Father is stated to be a "soul".
but His Son has flesh and bones;
Christ is God but can be seen
and He shares [with]Him His own Soul."
Leaving aside the fact that without "with" after "shares" the statement "He shares Him His own soul" is solecistic , is it really true that according to Christian theology God the Father is a soul? Please show me not only where in the New Testament or in any authoritative orthodox Creed (e.g,, the Apostles', Nicean, Nicaean-Constantinopolitan, Chalcedonian, Athanasian creeds) or even those of Arius and Euzoius) God the Father is said to be a soul, but where it is stated that a "soul" is what God the Father shares with Jesus.
Cue the ad hominem about my knowledge of grammar and crickets or a red herring as the reply to my request for evidence that in Christian theology God the Father is stated to be a "soul".
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
23rd Oct 2021 9:26pm
Thank you very much, dear S.S., for choosing my poem to be among your reading list. It's very kind of you.
Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
23rd Oct 2021 9:30pm
Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
23rd Oct 2021 9:53pm
1- Share can take two objects: direct and indirect. When the indirect is first, there is no need for a preposition. For example: She cooked a meal for him. = She cooked him a meal. He shared a house with him. = He shared him a house.
2- Can you tell me who has seen the Father?
2- Can you tell me who has seen the Father?
Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
"1- Share can take two objects: direct and indirect. When the indirect is first, there is no need for a preposition. For example: She cooked a meal for him. = She cooked him a meal. He shared a house with him. = He shared him a house."
Who speaks like this?
"2- Can you tell me who has seen the Father?"
Just as I predicted, a reply that does not provide what I asked to be provided. Moreover, even if the question is based on Jn. 6:46
(No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father), it's an illogical red herring. It does NOT follow that because the Father has not been seen that he is a soul.
In any case, the biblical witness is not only that God the Father CAN be seen (cf. Exodus 3:16 " Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God"),
but that he HAS been seen.
Exodus 24.9-11
9 Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. 11 God[a] did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; also they beheld God, and they ate and drank.
Num. 12:6-11
he said, “Listen to my words:
“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Deut. 34:10
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
Ezek. 1:26-28
26 And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, tin appearance like sapphire;7 and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. 27 And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him.8 28 Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around.
So once again, you show that your knowledge of matters theological is severely deficient and that the claims you make about God (let alone scripture) are not to be trusted.
In any case, shall we conclude that you are unable to show where in any official creed of Christianity it is declared that that God the Father is a "soul" (which, BTW, in Christian theology [when influenced by Plato] is something that God **creates** and gives to all human beings). That is the logical conclusion that follows from the fact that you dodged doing so.
Who speaks like this?
"2- Can you tell me who has seen the Father?"
Just as I predicted, a reply that does not provide what I asked to be provided. Moreover, even if the question is based on Jn. 6:46
(No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father), it's an illogical red herring. It does NOT follow that because the Father has not been seen that he is a soul.
In any case, the biblical witness is not only that God the Father CAN be seen (cf. Exodus 3:16 " Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God"),
but that he HAS been seen.
Exodus 24.9-11
9 Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. 11 God[a] did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; also they beheld God, and they ate and drank.
Num. 12:6-11
he said, “Listen to my words:
“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Deut. 34:10
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
Ezek. 1:26-28
26 And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, tin appearance like sapphire;7 and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. 27 And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him.8 28 Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around.
So once again, you show that your knowledge of matters theological is severely deficient and that the claims you make about God (let alone scripture) are not to be trusted.
In any case, shall we conclude that you are unable to show where in any official creed of Christianity it is declared that that God the Father is a "soul" (which, BTW, in Christian theology [when influenced by Plato] is something that God **creates** and gives to all human beings). That is the logical conclusion that follows from the fact that you dodged doing so.
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
24th Oct 2021 10:38am
Baldwin, you ask: "Who speaks like this?" I answer, "l do. Do you disagree about that?" If you do, let's discuss it first.
Re: Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
24th Oct 2021 2:57pm
How could I disagree with your statement that you speak (and write) in awkward English? If you say you do, you do.
So since I don't disagree "about that", please get on to producing evidence from the New Testament and the authoritative Creeds that supports your claim that in Christian theology God the Father is regarded as a soul, let alone that his soul is what he shared with Jesus.
Cue another dodge of this request, not to mention an acknowledgment that your claim that God cannot be seen (and never has been seen by anyone except Jesus) is not Biblical.
So since I don't disagree "about that", please get on to producing evidence from the New Testament and the authoritative Creeds that supports your claim that in Christian theology God the Father is regarded as a soul, let alone that his soul is what he shared with Jesus.
Cue another dodge of this request, not to mention an acknowledgment that your claim that God cannot be seen (and never has been seen by anyone except Jesus) is not Biblical.
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
BTW, Genesis says that God created both men and women in his image ( צֶלֶם ,εἰκόνα) not "man" in his own form (צוּרָה μορφή,
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמֹ֔ו בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹתֹ֑ו זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם׃
καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον κατ᾽ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς
So once again you show yourself ignorant of what texts in the Bible actually say and that you should not be trusted when you make theological claims supposedly based on them.
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמֹ֔ו בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹתֹ֑ו זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם׃
καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον κατ᾽ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς
So once again you show yourself ignorant of what texts in the Bible actually say and that you should not be trusted when you make theological claims supposedly based on them.
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Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
24th Oct 2021 4:10pm
Indeed, your way of writing is very repulsive while you accuse others to be like that.You ask, "Who speaks like this??" What is the short answer for your question? Isn't it, "l do."? Why are you scoffing my answer? Who do you think you are? I know your limits, but you write a lot to bore who is writing to you. Enough with this very cheap methods, and respect others to make them respect you, Baldwin.
Re: Re. LOVE LEADS TO FAITH.
Another dodge of my request. And more deixis as well in this sentence:
"Indeed, your way of writing is very repulsive while [SIC when?] you accuse others to be like that."
since you need to specify what it is I accuse others of being like for what you are asserting to be comprehensible.
And I did not scoff at your answer. I affirmed it. I agreed that you "speak like that". Are you denying that your English is sometimes awkward?
And it's you who uses cheap methods (e.g, red herrings, the use of tu quoque, and of shifting the burden of proof) when replying to legitimate requests for evidence for your claims and who, in using ad hominems, engages in the disrespect to others that you claim I show towards you.
Why is it that you do not admit that you cannot counter the evidence I provided you that, contrary to your claim, God can be and has been seen, that there is nothing in the New Testament or the Church's Creeds that declares that God the Father is a soul and that he did not give human beings, let alone only men, his "form"?
"Indeed, your way of writing is very repulsive while [SIC when?] you accuse others to be like that."
since you need to specify what it is I accuse others of being like for what you are asserting to be comprehensible.
And I did not scoff at your answer. I affirmed it. I agreed that you "speak like that". Are you denying that your English is sometimes awkward?
And it's you who uses cheap methods (e.g, red herrings, the use of tu quoque, and of shifting the burden of proof) when replying to legitimate requests for evidence for your claims and who, in using ad hominems, engages in the disrespect to others that you claim I show towards you.
Why is it that you do not admit that you cannot counter the evidence I provided you that, contrary to your claim, God can be and has been seen, that there is nothing in the New Testament or the Church's Creeds that declares that God the Father is a soul and that he did not give human beings, let alone only men, his "form"?
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