deepundergroundpoetry.com
I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues
and all my thoughts are with my serious pen,
which tries to reach the goal that deserves more?
I try to know the secrets of the world
as l love lots of people who owned me.
Life is great torture when they are not near.
Can we meet once more where life has no end?
Some people who have none but wasting time
want me to think about what has no place
to take a second of my quite full time
to write about what life has left to them.
I read and think a lot to reach a place
where l can build on rocky land my house.
There, l will live the life which l have planned
in that most tender space where love exists.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues
and all my thoughts are with my serious pen,
which tries to reach the goal that deserves more?
I try to know the secrets of the world
as l love lots of people who owned me.
Life is great torture when they are not near.
Can we meet once more where life has no end?
Some people who have none but wasting time
want me to think about what has no place
to take a second of my quite full time
to write about what life has left to them.
I read and think a lot to reach a place
where l can build on rocky land my house.
There, l will live the life which l have planned
in that most tender space where love exists.
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
____________________________________
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
Ah, poor J-Z. Beset again with something so unfair and complaining about how his "work" has been treated poorly and without just cause.
Unfortunately, this complaint is poorly written and often off topic.
"How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues"
Why shouldn't you have a place in your heart for standing against people who speak falsely? That's what anyone with a sense of justice and what is right would have.
And you haven't shown that you've been addressed by anyone who has spoken lies about you or your work.
https://grammarist.com/idiom/speak-with-a-forked-tongue/#:~:text=To%20speak%20with%20a%20forked,as%20calling%20someone%20a%20liar.
"and all my thoughts are with my serious pen,
which tries to reach the goal that deserves more?"
Leaving aside the bump in rhythm here (which TRIES to REACH the GOAL that deSERVES MORE), this line raises --but leaves unanswered -- the questions of what "the goal" (deixis) and this "more" you speak of is.
And wouldn't what you are trying to say here make better sense if you had written:
"How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues"
WHEN all my thoughts are with my serious pen ..."?
"I try to know the secrets of the world
as l love lots of people who owned me."
Given the import of "as" (= since) what you end up saying here is that the reason for your trying to know the secrets of this world is that you love a number of people to whom you were once enslaved? Surely that's a non sequitur.
"Life is great torture when they are not near.
Can we meet once more where life has no end?"
How is what you say here related to what you say your theme is?
"Some people who have none but wasting time"
Did you mean to write "some people who have **nothing to do** but waste time? The syntax of your line makes you say that some people possess nothing but time that waists them". And did you mean their time or someone else's?
"want me to think about what has no place
to take a second of my quite full time
to write about what life has left to them."
Besides the infelicity of rhyming "time" with "time" , these lines are poor because they do not actually say what you are trying to say -- i.e., some people want me to think about what would, if thought, be a worthless expenditure of even a second of my precious time.
And who are these people? Would your thinking about, let alone actually responding to, what it is they have asked you to think about **really** be a waste of your time. Is what they ask you to do unreasonable or, more importantly, unwarranted?
And do they really want you to write about what life has left to **them **-- which is what, BTW?
Unfortunately, this complaint is poorly written and often off topic.
"How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues"
Why shouldn't you have a place in your heart for standing against people who speak falsely? That's what anyone with a sense of justice and what is right would have.
And you haven't shown that you've been addressed by anyone who has spoken lies about you or your work.
https://grammarist.com/idiom/speak-with-a-forked-tongue/#:~:text=To%20speak%20with%20a%20forked,as%20calling%20someone%20a%20liar.
"and all my thoughts are with my serious pen,
which tries to reach the goal that deserves more?"
Leaving aside the bump in rhythm here (which TRIES to REACH the GOAL that deSERVES MORE), this line raises --but leaves unanswered -- the questions of what "the goal" (deixis) and this "more" you speak of is.
And wouldn't what you are trying to say here make better sense if you had written:
"How can l find a place inside my heart
for hatred or a grudge against forked tongues"
WHEN all my thoughts are with my serious pen ..."?
"I try to know the secrets of the world
as l love lots of people who owned me."
Given the import of "as" (= since) what you end up saying here is that the reason for your trying to know the secrets of this world is that you love a number of people to whom you were once enslaved? Surely that's a non sequitur.
"Life is great torture when they are not near.
Can we meet once more where life has no end?"
How is what you say here related to what you say your theme is?
"Some people who have none but wasting time"
Did you mean to write "some people who have **nothing to do** but waste time? The syntax of your line makes you say that some people possess nothing but time that waists them". And did you mean their time or someone else's?
"want me to think about what has no place
to take a second of my quite full time
to write about what life has left to them."
Besides the infelicity of rhyming "time" with "time" , these lines are poor because they do not actually say what you are trying to say -- i.e., some people want me to think about what would, if thought, be a worthless expenditure of even a second of my precious time.
And who are these people? Would your thinking about, let alone actually responding to, what it is they have asked you to think about **really** be a waste of your time. Is what they ask you to do unreasonable or, more importantly, unwarranted?
And do they really want you to write about what life has left to **them **-- which is what, BTW?
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
if I’m to get into my heavened home
I have no time to waste with trivialities.
I wonder then: should I release myself
from all the effort that I spend in fostering
in (lumpy) verse,
and holding on
to, my pretense
that I am poet to all poets
especially those whom I decree
(because they' are the ones who give
me words of praise)
have got some taste?
The answer’s yes.
For spending precious moments better used
In doing good
to pose myself , as is my wont,
alike in art and skill
shown by the greatest of the poem makers
since Shakespeare
and to complain about
how critics of my “work” are blind
to ev’ry bit of genius that I show
in all that I indite upon a page
and how they do not see
that I’m,
in my pronouncements on the workings of the world
and what it is that truly leads
to human happiness,
an undisputed sage
won’t get me near or through
as good deeds do
the pearly gates.
In fact my braggadocio
and all the off point, spiteful insults that I write against those who
i claim (preposterously)
are motivated by their "grudge"
will have St. Peter send me
with great haste
for evermore upon my death
Into the fiery realms below.
I have no time to waste with trivialities.
I wonder then: should I release myself
from all the effort that I spend in fostering
in (lumpy) verse,
and holding on
to, my pretense
that I am poet to all poets
especially those whom I decree
(because they' are the ones who give
me words of praise)
have got some taste?
The answer’s yes.
For spending precious moments better used
In doing good
to pose myself , as is my wont,
alike in art and skill
shown by the greatest of the poem makers
since Shakespeare
and to complain about
how critics of my “work” are blind
to ev’ry bit of genius that I show
in all that I indite upon a page
and how they do not see
that I’m,
in my pronouncements on the workings of the world
and what it is that truly leads
to human happiness,
an undisputed sage
won’t get me near or through
as good deeds do
the pearly gates.
In fact my braggadocio
and all the off point, spiteful insults that I write against those who
i claim (preposterously)
are motivated by their "grudge"
will have St. Peter send me
with great haste
for evermore upon my death
Into the fiery realms below.
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
8th Jun 2021 8:58pm
I am not going to criticize all the poem, but l'll mention a few lines at the beginning, which l think should be corrected.
"...should l release myself
from all the effort that l spend in fostering
in [lumpy] verse."
1-spend in + time, so it should be SPEND ON
2- Fostering is transitive, it should be followed by a noun without IN.
"...should l release myself
from all the effort that l spend in fostering
in [lumpy] verse."
1-spend in + time, so it should be SPEND ON
2- Fostering is transitive, it should be followed by a noun without IN.
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
I am not going to criticize all the poem, but l'll mention a few lines at the beginning, which l think should be corrected.
"...should l release myself
from all the effort that l spend in fostering
in [lumpy] verse."
1-spend in + time, so it should be SPEND ON
Once again, you show yourself unable to comprehend what I actually wrote and instead, exhibiting your penchant for putting words in my mouth.
What I wrote is "should I release myself from all the EFFORT that I spend in fostering ...
But I'm now leaning toward "should I release myself from all the effort I expend in fostering ... ".
"2- Fostering is transitive, it should be followed by a noun without IN."
It IS followed by a direct object, namely "my pretense" And where oh were does the preposition "in" appear in anything that follows "fostering"?
Again, I have to wonder if you need glasses. You show yourself incapable of quoting me correctly.
And more importantly, I wonder if you'll ever be man enough to do what I asked you to do before I wrote the piece you seem to think I asked you to criticize, namely, to **demonstrate** through well reasoned and thoughtful argument that my remarks about YOUR piece above (as well as the ones that I made about your "The Man Who defeated Death") are groundless and off the mark.
Cue the ad hominems and red herrings.
"...should l release myself
from all the effort that l spend in fostering
in [lumpy] verse."
1-spend in + time, so it should be SPEND ON
Once again, you show yourself unable to comprehend what I actually wrote and instead, exhibiting your penchant for putting words in my mouth.
What I wrote is "should I release myself from all the EFFORT that I spend in fostering ...
But I'm now leaning toward "should I release myself from all the effort I expend in fostering ... ".
"2- Fostering is transitive, it should be followed by a noun without IN."
It IS followed by a direct object, namely "my pretense" And where oh were does the preposition "in" appear in anything that follows "fostering"?
Again, I have to wonder if you need glasses. You show yourself incapable of quoting me correctly.
And more importantly, I wonder if you'll ever be man enough to do what I asked you to do before I wrote the piece you seem to think I asked you to criticize, namely, to **demonstrate** through well reasoned and thoughtful argument that my remarks about YOUR piece above (as well as the ones that I made about your "The Man Who defeated Death") are groundless and off the mark.
Cue the ad hominems and red herrings.
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
8th Jun 2021 10:10pm
I suppose you think that you have answered me. You are so far from doing so. Just go back to your, what is supposed by you to be a poem, and you will be convinced. BTW, I am not going to expose more of your mistakes. I leave this task to you.
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
8th Jun 2021 10:56pm
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
9th Jun 2021 2:51pm
" Just go back to your, what is supposed by you to be a poem ..."
Leaving aside the question of why you have placed a comma between "your" and "what", not to mention that you should have written Just go back to what is supposed by you to be a poem" to avoid the solecism that your directive contains, I wonder if you'd be kind enough to say why my piece is not a poem. It has the elements that you have often declared a writing must have -- rhythm, rhyme, ideas -- to be poetry.
Leaving aside the question of why you have placed a comma between "your" and "what", not to mention that you should have written Just go back to what is supposed by you to be a poem" to avoid the solecism that your directive contains, I wonder if you'd be kind enough to say why my piece is not a poem. It has the elements that you have often declared a writing must have -- rhythm, rhyme, ideas -- to be poetry.
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
10th Jun 2021 3:11pm
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
10th Jun 2021 4:08pm
Would you do us all a favor and name the truths that in your eyes this piece from J-Z propounds and that you find as worth meditating upon?
And isn't it the case that if there are many truths in this piece, it is not cohesive and does not stick to the topic its title says it is going to deal with?
And isn't it the case that if there are many truths in this piece, it is not cohesive and does not stick to the topic its title says it is going to deal with?
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
10th Jun 2021 4:19pm
Dear Oralizer,
Thank you very much for your very appreciated comment. I understand very well what you mean. Don't listen to the intruder. J Z
Thank you very much for your very appreciated comment. I understand very well what you mean. Don't listen to the intruder. J Z
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
12th Jun 2021 10:05pm
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
12th Jun 2021 10:45pm
Thank you very much, Lozzamus, for your very kind encouragement, which l highly appreciate.
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
It seems to me that writing things that you call poetry
but whose true comprehensibility,
not to mention its cohesiveness
and use of vivid imagery
Is nowhere to be seen
(despite what any of your little coterie
of dilettantish sycophants
have said about your wording skill,
but who, in speaking of the beauty of your piece,
have shown themselves
to have no sense of what it is that makes for art)
Is sensibly the only thing that truly is
a waste of time,
not just for you,
but for your more enlightened would-be readers, too.
So do us all a favor now.
Give up your sense, your arrogant pretense,
that’ you’ve no need for hearing
how to write
since you’re convinced that all you post To DUP
is verily god’s gift to verse,
and go and read some worthwhile books**
on how to make your compositions swell
with lines eschewing all your tendencies
for boring pulpit pedantry,
but serve instead to cause a reader to become
swept up in ecstasy.
Cue the unevidenced and petulant response that this isn’t poetry.
**
Frances Mayes--The Discovery of Poetry: A Field Guide to Reading and Writing Poems
Steve Kowit--In the Palm of Your Hand: The Poet's Portable Workshop
Ted Kooser --The Poetry Home Repair Manual: Practical Advice for Beginning Poets
Kim Addonizio -- Ordinary Genius: A Guide for the Poet Within
Mary Oliver--A Poetry Handbook
Sage Cohen -- Writing the Life Poetic: An Invitation to Read & Write Poetry
Kim Adonnizio and Dorianne Laux--The Poet's Companion: A Guide to the Pleasures of Writing Poetry
Mark Doty -- The Art of Description: World into Word
Robert Pinsky--The Sounds of Poetry
Mary Oliver -- Rules for the Dance: A Handbook for Writing and Reading Metrical Verse
Stephen Fry -- The Ode Less Travelled: Unlocking the Poet Within
William Baer -- Writing Metrical Poetry: Contemporary Lessons for Mastering Traditional Forms
John Hollander -- Rhyme's Reason: A Guide to English Verse
Lewis Turco -- The Book of Forms, Third Edition
Stephen Burt -- The Poem Is You: 60 Contemporary American Poems and How To Read Them
but whose true comprehensibility,
not to mention its cohesiveness
and use of vivid imagery
Is nowhere to be seen
(despite what any of your little coterie
of dilettantish sycophants
have said about your wording skill,
but who, in speaking of the beauty of your piece,
have shown themselves
to have no sense of what it is that makes for art)
Is sensibly the only thing that truly is
a waste of time,
not just for you,
but for your more enlightened would-be readers, too.
So do us all a favor now.
Give up your sense, your arrogant pretense,
that’ you’ve no need for hearing
how to write
since you’re convinced that all you post To DUP
is verily god’s gift to verse,
and go and read some worthwhile books**
on how to make your compositions swell
with lines eschewing all your tendencies
for boring pulpit pedantry,
but serve instead to cause a reader to become
swept up in ecstasy.
Cue the unevidenced and petulant response that this isn’t poetry.
**
Frances Mayes--The Discovery of Poetry: A Field Guide to Reading and Writing Poems
Steve Kowit--In the Palm of Your Hand: The Poet's Portable Workshop
Ted Kooser --The Poetry Home Repair Manual: Practical Advice for Beginning Poets
Kim Addonizio -- Ordinary Genius: A Guide for the Poet Within
Mary Oliver--A Poetry Handbook
Sage Cohen -- Writing the Life Poetic: An Invitation to Read & Write Poetry
Kim Adonnizio and Dorianne Laux--The Poet's Companion: A Guide to the Pleasures of Writing Poetry
Mark Doty -- The Art of Description: World into Word
Robert Pinsky--The Sounds of Poetry
Mary Oliver -- Rules for the Dance: A Handbook for Writing and Reading Metrical Verse
Stephen Fry -- The Ode Less Travelled: Unlocking the Poet Within
William Baer -- Writing Metrical Poetry: Contemporary Lessons for Mastering Traditional Forms
John Hollander -- Rhyme's Reason: A Guide to English Verse
Lewis Turco -- The Book of Forms, Third Edition
Stephen Burt -- The Poem Is You: 60 Contemporary American Poems and How To Read Them
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
13th Jun 2021 7:55pm
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
Right on cue with the tu quoque!
In any case, please point out where I have ever said that I have no need to learn anything more about how to write poetry or implied that I am incapable of writing it poorly.
And man up for once and tell me, using **your stated criteria ** of what a writing has to have in order to be not only poetry, but good poetry, why my piece is neither of these two things, as you implied it is.
Are you saying that its lines have no set or regular rhythm?
Are you saying that it doesn't display ideas?
Are you saying that I have not used rhyme?
Are you saying that there's no reason to think that I have ever followed the advice in any of the books I listed on how to write poetry, let alone read what they have to say on this matter?
In any case, please point out where I have ever said that I have no need to learn anything more about how to write poetry or implied that I am incapable of writing it poorly.
And man up for once and tell me, using **your stated criteria ** of what a writing has to have in order to be not only poetry, but good poetry, why my piece is neither of these two things, as you implied it is.
Are you saying that its lines have no set or regular rhythm?
Are you saying that it doesn't display ideas?
Are you saying that I have not used rhyme?
Are you saying that there's no reason to think that I have ever followed the advice in any of the books I listed on how to write poetry, let alone read what they have to say on this matter?
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
13th Jun 2021 9:25pm
Good poetry is not only in form, but it should have a good form and a good meaning. Where is the good meaning in your poetry? Sorry to say so.
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
13th Jun 2021 9:42pm
Who are you to say that there is no meaning, let alone a good one (whatever that is), in what I write?
I note too that if you say there isn't one there, then you are insulting the respondents to my submissions who have stated that my pieces possess significance and meaning as among those who have no perspicacity.
But then again, you never saw a belt upon those who find fault with the way you write and who think that you present question begging ideas awkwardly that you didn't want to hit below.
I note too that if you say there isn't one there, then you are insulting the respondents to my submissions who have stated that my pieces possess significance and meaning as among those who have no perspicacity.
But then again, you never saw a belt upon those who find fault with the way you write and who think that you present question begging ideas awkwardly that you didn't want to hit below.
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
Who am l to say so? You've asked me and l give you my opinion on your poetry.
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
give you??
opinion in???
But why should I or anyone accept your opinion as valid, let alone as well informed, if it is never argued for or buttressed with evidence?
https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
And why don't you realize that any meaning that a poem has is obliterated if the ideas that one is trying to express within it are set out with and in dull and misused language, grammar gaffes, solecisms, deixis, and question begging, factually suspicious claims?
opinion in???
But why should I or anyone accept your opinion as valid, let alone as well informed, if it is never argued for or buttressed with evidence?
https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
And why don't you realize that any meaning that a poem has is obliterated if the ideas that one is trying to express within it are set out with and in dull and misused language, grammar gaffes, solecisms, deixis, and question begging, factually suspicious claims?
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
13th Jun 2021 10:46pm
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
"you [have] askED and I GAVE you...". But, as usual, you are avoiding speaking to the more important points I raised about your opinion.
0
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
Why do you give false pretensions when you are caught, and immediately change the subject? Is this your manliness?
You mean to say that l should have written: YOU HAVE ASKED, AND I GAVE YOU.
You mean to say that l should have written: YOU HAVE ASKED, AND I GAVE YOU.
Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
14th Jun 2021 00:20am
"Why do you give false pretensions when you are caught, and immediately change the subject? "
1. Is there such a thing as a "true pretension"?
2. what "pretension" did I give and why was it false?
3. What was I caught doing?
4. What subject did I "immediately" change and what did I "immediately" change the subject to?
In any case, you still haven't answered my question about why I or anyone should accept your opinion of my submissions as valid or worth considering since you have never demonstrated through argument or evidence that they are such.
1. Is there such a thing as a "true pretension"?
2. what "pretension" did I give and why was it false?
3. What was I caught doing?
4. What subject did I "immediately" change and what did I "immediately" change the subject to?
In any case, you still haven't answered my question about why I or anyone should accept your opinion of my submissions as valid or worth considering since you have never demonstrated through argument or evidence that they are such.
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Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
14th Jun 2021 8:07am
Re: Re. I HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.
14th Jun 2021 4:03pm
I will answer it after you answer my question about why anyone should accept your opinion on what I write as valid -- a question that I asked you **before** you made the comment you are referring to.
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