deepundergroundpoetry.com
POETIC LICENCE
POETIC LICENCE
Verse, you have your rhythmic beats,
that oblige all those who write
to ignore a little rule,
poetic licence to have .
Lots l read to bards laureate,
and discover some mistakes.
Can we strip them of their crowns ,
or just look at their great lines ?
I have taken them as guides
who can direct my shy pen ,
and l try to see their flame
that can light my obscure way .
Verse, you are the brilliant thoughts
that can shed light on dark lanes .
You can kindle tapered wax
that reveals insights on earth .
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
____________________________________
Verse, you have your rhythmic beats,
that oblige all those who write
to ignore a little rule,
poetic licence to have .
Lots l read to bards laureate,
and discover some mistakes.
Can we strip them of their crowns ,
or just look at their great lines ?
I have taken them as guides
who can direct my shy pen ,
and l try to see their flame
that can light my obscure way .
Verse, you are the brilliant thoughts
that can shed light on dark lanes .
You can kindle tapered wax
that reveals insights on earth .
BY JOSEPH ZENIEH
____________________________________
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
likes 0
reading list entries 0
comments 12
reads 350
Commenting Preference:
The author encourages honest critique.
Re. POETIC LICENCE
29th May 2019 10:38pm
What rule does regular meter allow a writer to ignore?
And when did Bards laureate ask or allow you to read **to** them?
Which ones in particular have you taken as your guides?
And when did Bards laureate ask or allow you to read **to** them?
Which ones in particular have you taken as your guides?
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
29th May 2019 11:51pm
Dear Baldwin,
By BARDS, l mean poets. Don't you know any poets laureate ? Should l mention some poets laureate to you. I am sure that you know some of them. Thank you for your interest, Baldwin. JZ
By BARDS, l mean poets. Don't you know any poets laureate ? Should l mention some poets laureate to you. I am sure that you know some of them. Thank you for your interest, Baldwin. JZ
Re: Re. POETIC LICENCE
Yes, I know what you mean by bards and see below for a list of the poets laureate first from Britain and then from the US. But whether I know what "bards" means or whether I know of any of the people who have been selected as a nation's poet laureate is not the issue. Nor is what you wrote above in any way an answer to the questions I posed to you.
And when you engage in what is essentially a dodge of them, as you have just done, you make me suspect that you can't answer them.
Let me repeat (a slightly modified version of) them in the hope that you will now actually answer them:
What rule does regular meter allow a writer to ignore? And why do you consider that rule to be a "small" (insignificant?) one?
Which poets laureate did you read **to**? And what did you read to them?
Which ones in particular have you taken as your guides? Any of these?
Edmund Spenser 1591–1599
Samuel Daniel 1599–1619
Ben Jonson 1619–1637
William Davenant 1638–1668
John Dryden 1 1668–1689
Thomas Shadwell 1689–1692
Nahum Tate 1692–1715
Nicholas Rowe 1715–1718
Laurence Eusden 1718–1730
Colley Cibber 1730–1757
William Whitehead 1757–1785
Thomas Warton 1785–1790
Henry James Pye 1790–1813
Robert Southey 1813–1843
William Wordsworth 1843–1850
Alfred Lord Tennyson 1850–1892
Alfred Austin 1896–1913
Robert Bridges 1913–1930
John Masefield 1930–1967
Cecil Day-Lewis 1967–1972
Sir John Betjeman 1972–1984
Ted Hughes 1984–1998
Andrew Motion 1999–2009
Carol Ann Duffy 2009–
How about these?
Consultants in Poetry
Joseph Auslander 1937–1941
Allen Tate 1943–1944
Robert Penn Warren 1944–1945
Louise Bogan 1945–1946
Karl Shapiro 1946–1947
Robert Lowell 1947–1948
Leonie Adams 1948–1949
Elizabeth Bishop 1949–1950
Conrad Aiken 1950–1952
William Carlos Williams 1952
Randall Jarrell 1953–1960
Robert Frost 1958–1959
Richard Eberhart 1959–1961
Louis Untermeyer 1961–1963
Howard Nemerov 1963–1964
Reed Whittemore 1964–1965
Stephen Spender 1965–1966
James Dickey 1966–1968
William Jay Smith 1968–1970
William Stafford 1970–1971
Josephine Jacobsen 1971-1973
Daniel Hoffman 1973–1974
Stanley Kunitz 1974–1976
Robert Hayden 1976–1978
William Meredith 1978–1980
Maxine Kumin 1981–1982
Anthony Hecht 1982–1984
Robert Fitzgerald 1984–1985
Reed Whittemore 1984–1985
Gwendolyn Brooks 1985–1986
Poets Laureate
Robert Penn Warren 1986–1987
Richard Wilbur 1987–1988
Howard Nemerov 1988–1990
Mark Strand 1990–1991
Joseph Brodsky 1991–1992
Mona Van Duyn 1992–1993
Rita Dove 1993–1995
Robert Hass 1995–1997
Robert Pinsky 1997–2000
Stanley Kunitz 2000–2001
Billy Collins 2001–2003
Louise Glück 2003–2004
Ted Kooser 2004–2006
Donald Hall 2006–2007
Charles Simic 2007–2008
Kay Ryan 2008–2010
W.S. Merwin 2010–2011
Philip Levine 2011–2012
Natasha Trethewey 2012–2014
Charles Wright 2014–2015
Juan Felipe Herrera 2015–
And when you engage in what is essentially a dodge of them, as you have just done, you make me suspect that you can't answer them.
Let me repeat (a slightly modified version of) them in the hope that you will now actually answer them:
What rule does regular meter allow a writer to ignore? And why do you consider that rule to be a "small" (insignificant?) one?
Which poets laureate did you read **to**? And what did you read to them?
Which ones in particular have you taken as your guides? Any of these?
Edmund Spenser 1591–1599
Samuel Daniel 1599–1619
Ben Jonson 1619–1637
William Davenant 1638–1668
John Dryden 1 1668–1689
Thomas Shadwell 1689–1692
Nahum Tate 1692–1715
Nicholas Rowe 1715–1718
Laurence Eusden 1718–1730
Colley Cibber 1730–1757
William Whitehead 1757–1785
Thomas Warton 1785–1790
Henry James Pye 1790–1813
Robert Southey 1813–1843
William Wordsworth 1843–1850
Alfred Lord Tennyson 1850–1892
Alfred Austin 1896–1913
Robert Bridges 1913–1930
John Masefield 1930–1967
Cecil Day-Lewis 1967–1972
Sir John Betjeman 1972–1984
Ted Hughes 1984–1998
Andrew Motion 1999–2009
Carol Ann Duffy 2009–
How about these?
Consultants in Poetry
Joseph Auslander 1937–1941
Allen Tate 1943–1944
Robert Penn Warren 1944–1945
Louise Bogan 1945–1946
Karl Shapiro 1946–1947
Robert Lowell 1947–1948
Leonie Adams 1948–1949
Elizabeth Bishop 1949–1950
Conrad Aiken 1950–1952
William Carlos Williams 1952
Randall Jarrell 1953–1960
Robert Frost 1958–1959
Richard Eberhart 1959–1961
Louis Untermeyer 1961–1963
Howard Nemerov 1963–1964
Reed Whittemore 1964–1965
Stephen Spender 1965–1966
James Dickey 1966–1968
William Jay Smith 1968–1970
William Stafford 1970–1971
Josephine Jacobsen 1971-1973
Daniel Hoffman 1973–1974
Stanley Kunitz 1974–1976
Robert Hayden 1976–1978
William Meredith 1978–1980
Maxine Kumin 1981–1982
Anthony Hecht 1982–1984
Robert Fitzgerald 1984–1985
Reed Whittemore 1984–1985
Gwendolyn Brooks 1985–1986
Poets Laureate
Robert Penn Warren 1986–1987
Richard Wilbur 1987–1988
Howard Nemerov 1988–1990
Mark Strand 1990–1991
Joseph Brodsky 1991–1992
Mona Van Duyn 1992–1993
Rita Dove 1993–1995
Robert Hass 1995–1997
Robert Pinsky 1997–2000
Stanley Kunitz 2000–2001
Billy Collins 2001–2003
Louise Glück 2003–2004
Ted Kooser 2004–2006
Donald Hall 2006–2007
Charles Simic 2007–2008
Kay Ryan 2008–2010
W.S. Merwin 2010–2011
Philip Levine 2011–2012
Natasha Trethewey 2012–2014
Charles Wright 2014–2015
Juan Felipe Herrera 2015–
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
30th May 2019 8:27am
Dear Baldwin,
What is the purpose of spending such a long time writing and receiving answers if you don't definitely mention the mistakes which are made. I am a teacher of English and l know what is right and what is wrong. Why do you use all this circumlocution. Please write directly about your purpose. Mention the mistakes first, and then l explain. Don't waste your time and mine about what we both know. Tell me what you want frankly, and directly. If possible write a sample of your poetry so that l can take the benefit from you. Thank you.
What is the purpose of spending such a long time writing and receiving answers if you don't definitely mention the mistakes which are made. I am a teacher of English and l know what is right and what is wrong. Why do you use all this circumlocution. Please write directly about your purpose. Mention the mistakes first, and then l explain. Don't waste your time and mine about what we both know. Tell me what you want frankly, and directly. If possible write a sample of your poetry so that l can take the benefit from you. Thank you.
Re. POETIC LICENCE
This is just another dodge of my questions.
Besides, where did I speak of the linguistic or grammatical "mistakes" you made in "Poetic License"?
What I have been doing in this thread is to ask you to clarify and/or support certain of the claims you made in it -- something you have still not done.
Did you not claim that writing in regular meter**obliges** you to break a "rule" without specifying what that rule is and why it is an inconsequential one?
Did you not speak of your having read **to** poets laureate?
Did you not claim that certain of them have been your guides for writing the way you do without specifying which of all of them have guided yo?
Did you not suggest that your guides provided you with evidence that you may (should?) make grammatical and syntactical mistakes and use forced rhyme in your writings since they do?
Besides, where did I speak of the linguistic or grammatical "mistakes" you made in "Poetic License"?
What I have been doing in this thread is to ask you to clarify and/or support certain of the claims you made in it -- something you have still not done.
Did you not claim that writing in regular meter**obliges** you to break a "rule" without specifying what that rule is and why it is an inconsequential one?
Did you not speak of your having read **to** poets laureate?
Did you not claim that certain of them have been your guides for writing the way you do without specifying which of all of them have guided yo?
Did you not suggest that your guides provided you with evidence that you may (should?) make grammatical and syntactical mistakes and use forced rhyme in your writings since they do?
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
30th May 2019 6:39pm
Dear Baldwin,
If you can speak of grammatical or linguistic mistakes, don't hesitate. I am a teacher of English, and l know English as much as you do and even more. You address your words in such a way which is not acceptable to me. I know only one person like you, but it is not necessary to tell you who he is. If you are ready to write in a better language, l answer you. JZ
If you can speak of grammatical or linguistic mistakes, don't hesitate. I am a teacher of English, and l know English as much as you do and even more. You address your words in such a way which is not acceptable to me. I know only one person like you, but it is not necessary to tell you who he is. If you are ready to write in a better language, l answer you. JZ
Re. POETIC LICENCE
Another dodge.
And you might want to note that the expression "in a better language" is a solecism (am I supposed to write in a language that is better than English?), that one does not address ("speak to") one's words unless one is responding to the points they make, and that you need to have worded your last sentence above as "" If you are ready to write in a better language, **l'll** answer you" for it to be good English.
So much for you knowing English "even more" than I do.
And you might want to note that the expression "in a better language" is a solecism (am I supposed to write in a language that is better than English?), that one does not address ("speak to") one's words unless one is responding to the points they make, and that you need to have worded your last sentence above as "" If you are ready to write in a better language, **l'll** answer you" for it to be good English.
So much for you knowing English "even more" than I do.
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
30th May 2019 7:52pm
Dear Baldwin,
1-IN A BETTER LANGUAGE: can have the meaning you have written, and can have the meaning," in a better chosen words".
2-The main clause of the PROBABLE CONDITION can be: 1 future 2 simple present as a fact or habit 3 imperative. This is if we use the HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION, and we can use the FREE CONDITIONAL. I think you know the free conditional, don't you? Therefore,l can say: I'LL ANSWER YOU- or l ANSWER YOU as a fact from now on. Please, try to be a friend, and stop being a bit proud of yourself when you meet modest people.
1-IN A BETTER LANGUAGE: can have the meaning you have written, and can have the meaning," in a better chosen words".
2-The main clause of the PROBABLE CONDITION can be: 1 future 2 simple present as a fact or habit 3 imperative. This is if we use the HYPOTHETICAL CONDITION, and we can use the FREE CONDITIONAL. I think you know the free conditional, don't you? Therefore,l can say: I'LL ANSWER YOU- or l ANSWER YOU as a fact from now on. Please, try to be a friend, and stop being a bit proud of yourself when you meet modest people.
Re. POETIC LICENCE
"in**a** better chosen words"??
Perhaps you'll show me what words I should have chosen to use to insure that you would find "acceptable", not to mention understand, the "yes or no" questions I asked you about the claims you made in "Poetic License" (and which you continue to dodge).
Perhaps you'll show me what words I should have chosen to use to insure that you would find "acceptable", not to mention understand, the "yes or no" questions I asked you about the claims you made in "Poetic License" (and which you continue to dodge).
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
30th May 2019 8:20pm
Do you think that writing in such conditions enables you to write without such stupid mistakes. I think just to mention them shows the personality of the writer. Is it possible that l don't know this stupid mistake, or do you want me to review every word l write to you several times. I am no ready to do that, and l have no time to waste. If you want us to be friends, stop this sort of behaviour. JZ
Re. POETIC LICENCE
30th May 2019 8:34pm
I have no idea what you mean by "writing in such conditions". Which conditions are you referring to?
And I take it that when you wrote "I am no ready to do that" you meant to write "I am **not** ready to do that".
And I also note that the above is yet another dodge of my "yes or no" questions to you about the claims you made in "Poetic License".
If **you** want us to be friends, I suggest you do so.
And I take it that when you wrote "I am no ready to do that" you meant to write "I am **not** ready to do that".
And I also note that the above is yet another dodge of my "yes or no" questions to you about the claims you made in "Poetic License".
If **you** want us to be friends, I suggest you do so.
0
Re. POETIC LICENCE
I arrogate unto myself the right
to always mash and screw good grammar up
when I’m intent to fit the thoughts
I want to write about
into a rhythm fixed
or when I wish
to end what I consider good
“poetic languaged” lines
(despite their often being filled
with question begging assertations
and non sequiturs)
within inversion plagued forced rhyme
(a sure sign of a writer who
misunderstands what is
felicitous in verse).
For after all, this is, you know,
as worshiped bards
and laureled laureates of former times
implicitly attested to
when they wrote verse,
(but is this really so?)
the outcome of the literary license given me
by them
when I'm engaged
in writing out the solecisms
I perceive and claim to be
a vital, and, indeed, essentially,
a valid part of poetry,
n’est-ce pas?
A question, though, remains.
It’s whether what I write
when I,
in gleaning from the legacy
that I allege has been
bequeathed to me
by poets from the past
that I am justified
and, more so, metrically obliged
(says who?)
to write in ways
that other noted versifiers true
like Eliot, and Nemerov,
Milay, Longfellow, and Auden, W.,
and many others, too
would bridle at, despise,
eschew
good syntax,
spelling that is sage and true,
not to mention sense
and sensibility,
in the dire, affected way
I wing and word
my “privileged” thoughts
upon a page,
prints well within a reader’s mind
an uncontested, awe filled sense
of reading something clever
fresh and new that’s vividly intense
and masterfully interesting
or makes them
when they’re done with it
then aspirate, compelled to say PU.
to always mash and screw good grammar up
when I’m intent to fit the thoughts
I want to write about
into a rhythm fixed
or when I wish
to end what I consider good
“poetic languaged” lines
(despite their often being filled
with question begging assertations
and non sequiturs)
within inversion plagued forced rhyme
(a sure sign of a writer who
misunderstands what is
felicitous in verse).
For after all, this is, you know,
as worshiped bards
and laureled laureates of former times
implicitly attested to
when they wrote verse,
(but is this really so?)
the outcome of the literary license given me
by them
when I'm engaged
in writing out the solecisms
I perceive and claim to be
a vital, and, indeed, essentially,
a valid part of poetry,
n’est-ce pas?
A question, though, remains.
It’s whether what I write
when I,
in gleaning from the legacy
that I allege has been
bequeathed to me
by poets from the past
that I am justified
and, more so, metrically obliged
(says who?)
to write in ways
that other noted versifiers true
like Eliot, and Nemerov,
Milay, Longfellow, and Auden, W.,
and many others, too
would bridle at, despise,
eschew
good syntax,
spelling that is sage and true,
not to mention sense
and sensibility,
in the dire, affected way
I wing and word
my “privileged” thoughts
upon a page,
prints well within a reader’s mind
an uncontested, awe filled sense
of reading something clever
fresh and new that’s vividly intense
and masterfully interesting
or makes them
when they’re done with it
then aspirate, compelled to say PU.
0