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deepundergroundpoetry.com
Points Make Prizes?
Islamic fundamentalists
Raise millions of dollars
To fund a mentalist
Like Osama Bin Laden
The C.I.A contractor
In their kind of Islam
Killing is just fine
Men, women, children
Makes not matter
All are easy targets
And are targeted easily
It has cowardice
At it’s stone heart
Kids on a school bus
Don’t shoot back
Office workers have no
Anti aircraft missiles
Soft targets for a
Soft headed ideology
If you think we are safe
Research the word “Taqiyya”
And what it means
And what it leads to
Women subjugated
Treated as property
The rape of school girls
Is fine with Allah
Or a version of him
How sick can an ideology be
To behead their own people
To stone them to death
To throw gays off buildings
Recruit child bombers
And if you are a good Muslim
When you die you get virgins
Allah’s prize is deflowering virgins
Might be girls
Might be boys
Might be a mixture
How many virgins can I get?
Buy explosives by the ton
I might get one
If I shoot a Jew
I might get two
Hang a Christian from a tree
I might get three
With a knife create death and gore
I might get four
Burning Christians alive
I might get five
Beheading innocents for kicks
I might get six
No mercy, none forgiven
I might get seven
Convert others to your hate
I might get eight
Blow up a Hindu holy shrine
I might get nine
Killing women, children, men
I might get ten
Into buildings in an aircraft you flew
I might get seventy two
Points mean prizes
The more you kill
The bigger the prize
You cannot trust
This version of Islam
They practice “Taqiyya”
And the ultimate prize
In heaven is fucking
Numerous young virgins
It would seem that
The virgins are not
Given the choice
A Religion of peace
A Religion of love
If you are the right
Kind of Muslim
And not a virgin
Published 5th Nov 2017
All writing remains the property of the author. Don't use it for any purpose without their permission.
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The author encourages honest critique.
5th Nov 2017 3:00am
Never afraid to call it as you see it. One of the things that earn my respect for you David.
Many good Muslims feel no different than you. I know, for I have met and come to know them.
They are no less sadden by the hijacking of their religion than a good Christian is by the hijacking of theirs.
Many good Muslims feel no different than you. I know, for I have met and come to know them.
They are no less sadden by the hijacking of their religion than a good Christian is by the hijacking of theirs.
5th Nov 2017 2:43pm
I am currently living next door to a Syrian refugee couple next door, they have been through much. There English is not great a bit like my Syrian - we communicate mainly through the medium of food, they make Syrian meals for me and I make Scottish meals for them: A lovely old couple and good neighbours. This is how it should be. mutual respect and compassion, a true humanity. I don't blame all Muslims and know that the ones I am talking about are in the minority, but it is a sizeable minority and should be feared and opposed :-)
thank you for your respect and understanding :-)
thank you for your respect and understanding :-)
5th Nov 2017 7:11pm
I know you feel the same as I in regard to only a minority of Muslims are terrorists.
My comment was in part to reaffirm this fact as was your reply..
Hey, another point we agree on, friendship re-enforced.
My comment was in part to reaffirm this fact as was your reply..
Hey, another point we agree on, friendship re-enforced.
5th Nov 2017 3:42am
5th Nov 2017 2:43pm
The real point(s) is ... you could substitute Christianity or Judaism in this poem ... or the American or British flag for that matter ... the aforementioned were all terrorist organizations long before 9/11 or the recent bombings in Europe or the States; the difference is ... the groups I mentioned, learned to make a dollar out of their inhumanity.
... from "the Bible" ... If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery." ...
...verses like this have been used to justify Columbus' invasion and rape of the Taino people (which is still celebrated with parades in America) ... the enslavement of 12.5 million Africans shipped to America ... the colonization of African and Middle Eastern nations during the 18th and 19th centuries by many European nations ...
What we're seeing now is just a calculated loss by the money brokers. If you doubt it, then think about this ... since Donald Trump became president, stock prices have doubled for American defense contractors.
Fundamentalists may use guns, but they sure as hell don't make them.
... from "the Bible" ... If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery." ...
...verses like this have been used to justify Columbus' invasion and rape of the Taino people (which is still celebrated with parades in America) ... the enslavement of 12.5 million Africans shipped to America ... the colonization of African and Middle Eastern nations during the 18th and 19th centuries by many European nations ...
What we're seeing now is just a calculated loss by the money brokers. If you doubt it, then think about this ... since Donald Trump became president, stock prices have doubled for American defense contractors.
Fundamentalists may use guns, but they sure as hell don't make them.
5th Nov 2017 2:28pm
No! that is not the real point - that is your point and opinion on what you perceive to be the content of this poem. You make no real point about the poem itself just your political perspective.
Now if you followed and read my poetry you would find that I am an equal opportunities offender. I have written many poems about Christianity and most major man made religions. I have written poems about racism and slavery, I have written anti British and American establishments. I hold no loyalty to any man made organisation.
Given some of your comments I am sure we could have a long fruitless debate about the history of bad men, but you seem to have made up your mind already.
two wrongs don't make a right. wrong doing in biblical times does not justify terrorism now. Anyone killing for the sake of a holy book is just plain wrong, the same would apply to the dollar
Your comments are interesting, nay fascination from another angle. This poem specifically targeted a specific strain of Islam, on that the poem was crystal clear, as was the message within the poem. I not that you could not find one point of agreement with anything I wrote. I thought at the very least all of humanity could agree with the evil that is the current Islamic terrorism. You seem to be seeking to justify it in some way. Once you justify any form of terrorism you justify them all
you end with "Fundamentalists may use guns, but they sure as hell don't make them." so let me get you right here. Does that mean that because they don't make them it's ok for them to use them? Thats what you seem to be saying, but again I could be wrong, wrong about you, not about the poem :-)
Now if you followed and read my poetry you would find that I am an equal opportunities offender. I have written many poems about Christianity and most major man made religions. I have written poems about racism and slavery, I have written anti British and American establishments. I hold no loyalty to any man made organisation.
Given some of your comments I am sure we could have a long fruitless debate about the history of bad men, but you seem to have made up your mind already.
two wrongs don't make a right. wrong doing in biblical times does not justify terrorism now. Anyone killing for the sake of a holy book is just plain wrong, the same would apply to the dollar
Your comments are interesting, nay fascination from another angle. This poem specifically targeted a specific strain of Islam, on that the poem was crystal clear, as was the message within the poem. I not that you could not find one point of agreement with anything I wrote. I thought at the very least all of humanity could agree with the evil that is the current Islamic terrorism. You seem to be seeking to justify it in some way. Once you justify any form of terrorism you justify them all
you end with "Fundamentalists may use guns, but they sure as hell don't make them." so let me get you right here. Does that mean that because they don't make them it's ok for them to use them? Thats what you seem to be saying, but again I could be wrong, wrong about you, not about the poem :-)
6th Nov 2017 9:24am
No, I don't get to read much of your work, and sadly these days with so many other responsibilities, I don't get to read many of the wonderful poets here that I used to thrive on - on a daily basis ...
... nonetheless, reading this poem, as it stands as a singular piece, it reads of with so much of the disdain, and "fear" that creates attitudes and policies (America's current travel bans) aimed towards certain religious and ethnic groups, that could have just as easily kept your Syrian neighbors out of this country thereby making it impossible to see the true side of the Islamic faith (peace and generosity) ...
The larger issue is understanding the work of corporate fat cats and governmental agencies and policy makers that have created these terrorists groups ... it's like pitbull and cock fighters ... they breed the animals to fight and kill, and they make money when the animals fight and kill. The rest of us only recoil when the dog gets loose in our neighborhood and attacks some child at a playground.
You talk about the money poured into coffers of these "rapists who desire virgins" ... but you do know that Bin Laden was initially a CIA operative funded to oppose the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan(?) ... thus he was funded and trained by US forces and interests. So, sadly what we see now is a byproduct of such thinking ...
... and it continues ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/world/asia/cia-funds-found-their-way-into-al-qaeda-coffers.html
Which was my point about guns. Yet another American community was devastated yesterday by a lone gunman walking into a church and killing at least 26 people, including a 5 year old, and wounding another 20. If America can't protect it's own citizenry from gun attacks by other Americans ... is it any wonder international gun runners can easily supply terrorist factions (?) ... As I said, fundamentalists don't make guns, but WE sure as hell make it easy for them to get guns!
My "honest critique" of the poem, and thing that makes me struggle with it ... is it didn't peal back the layers to what's created these terrorists' groups ...yes, more enlightened people like yourself know its not the religion itself, but let's face it - too many people aren't enlightened, and they'll read a poem like this (out of context with your other work) ... and say "... ship all those Muslim people out, and don't let the others in, and while we're at it, let's bomb the shit outta them too! It's nothing but desert anyway!" ...
... it's that kind of talk which the arms manufacturers love to hear because they get to sell more ... GUNS and BOMBS ... hence the stocks of the three largest arms makers in the US, have all but doubled in less than a year from November of 2016 ...
It's easy to write about the monsters unleashed ... I'd love to see a piece by you on the creation of said monsters, and the mad doctors behind it all
Cheers
... nonetheless, reading this poem, as it stands as a singular piece, it reads of with so much of the disdain, and "fear" that creates attitudes and policies (America's current travel bans) aimed towards certain religious and ethnic groups, that could have just as easily kept your Syrian neighbors out of this country thereby making it impossible to see the true side of the Islamic faith (peace and generosity) ...
The larger issue is understanding the work of corporate fat cats and governmental agencies and policy makers that have created these terrorists groups ... it's like pitbull and cock fighters ... they breed the animals to fight and kill, and they make money when the animals fight and kill. The rest of us only recoil when the dog gets loose in our neighborhood and attacks some child at a playground.
You talk about the money poured into coffers of these "rapists who desire virgins" ... but you do know that Bin Laden was initially a CIA operative funded to oppose the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan(?) ... thus he was funded and trained by US forces and interests. So, sadly what we see now is a byproduct of such thinking ...
... and it continues ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/world/asia/cia-funds-found-their-way-into-al-qaeda-coffers.html
Which was my point about guns. Yet another American community was devastated yesterday by a lone gunman walking into a church and killing at least 26 people, including a 5 year old, and wounding another 20. If America can't protect it's own citizenry from gun attacks by other Americans ... is it any wonder international gun runners can easily supply terrorist factions (?) ... As I said, fundamentalists don't make guns, but WE sure as hell make it easy for them to get guns!
My "honest critique" of the poem, and thing that makes me struggle with it ... is it didn't peal back the layers to what's created these terrorists' groups ...yes, more enlightened people like yourself know its not the religion itself, but let's face it - too many people aren't enlightened, and they'll read a poem like this (out of context with your other work) ... and say "... ship all those Muslim people out, and don't let the others in, and while we're at it, let's bomb the shit outta them too! It's nothing but desert anyway!" ...
... it's that kind of talk which the arms manufacturers love to hear because they get to sell more ... GUNS and BOMBS ... hence the stocks of the three largest arms makers in the US, have all but doubled in less than a year from November of 2016 ...
It's easy to write about the monsters unleashed ... I'd love to see a piece by you on the creation of said monsters, and the mad doctors behind it all
Cheers
6th Nov 2017 5:00pm
I am beginning to wonder if you have actually read or understood the poem
[you] “do know that Bin Laden was initially a CIA operative”
[the poem] “To fund a mentalist Like Osama Bin Laden
The C.I.A contractor In their kind of Islam”
Was Bin Laden being funded once he turned his murderous gaze to the USA and the west? He is not a by product he’s just an evil man, plain and simple, no excuses
I have not been to your link The NY Times is not and independent newspaper and like many they are partisan and report little of the truth. Its days of searching for the truth have been over for many years.
There is no connection between my poem and the latest massacre. As far as I am aware the gunman was mentally ill and had been for some time, as far as I am aware he was not a ‘fundamentalist’ of any kind. I am also aware that the gunman had other weapons locked and loaded in his car, I would have to assume his spree wasn’t over and he was of somewhere else to kill even more people. I am also aware that the reason he was unable to kill even more people is that he was pursued by a citizen with a gun and shot, just a wee bit ironic don’t you think?
The problem with guns, like nuclear weapons in that you can’t un-invent them and if you think changing the law would make any real difference then you are sadly wrong. I live in a country where all guns are illegal, but if I wanted a gun I know where I could go to buy one. The UK has one of the toughest anti gun laws going but if bad men want guns they can easily get them. In the main our police force are unarmed would you like that to for the USA?
In my opinion you have made no valid point about guns. Fundamentalists do make guns, they are part of a supply and demand food chain that will always exist
Your “Honest Critique” is not an Honest Critique. The reason that you struggle with it is it appears in your mind to not address your political and cultural leanings. The poem is not about “who created those terrorist groups’ that is your agenda and the way you would write a poem, being an individual I am not bound by those things. The poem is crystal clear that is talking about Bin Laden’s “kind of Islam” also “Is fine with Allah Or a version of him”
And also “This version of Islam” and finally “A Religion of peace A Religion of love If you are the right Kind of Muslim And not a virgin” If it is not clear from that then there’s a problem because I see not reason to make it any clearer in this write.
I don’t view myself as more enlightened and I think you do a disservice to the general public. I think most people know it’s a lunatic fringe a bit like they also know that the Westboro Baptist church is part of the Christian lunatic fringe. People are much brighter than you think and I am sure they would read this poem in the context it was written with so clearly.
You say "... ship all those Muslim people out, and don't let the others in, and while we're at it, let's bomb the shit outta them too! It's nothing but desert anyway!" I am sure there is a lunatic fringe who will say that and that lunatic fringe would have said that before reading this poem. To tar the general public like that is simply insulting
You say “It's easy to write about the monsters unleashed” – strange that I did not find it easy at all. The study was long and the edit was precise. There is nothing wrong with the poem as a stand alone poem It’s just your biased / politicized views coming through.
And on a final not, I will never and I repeat never have sympathy for terrorist monsters. Terrorist are terrorists by choice and if it wasn’t Americans supplying guns it would be the Chinese or the Russians. You can’t control who makes the guns on the world wide stage
Nobody has the power to affect that change. I do hope you agree that if you are aggrieved that it does not afford you the right to kill soft target innocents
[you] “do know that Bin Laden was initially a CIA operative”
[the poem] “To fund a mentalist Like Osama Bin Laden
The C.I.A contractor In their kind of Islam”
Was Bin Laden being funded once he turned his murderous gaze to the USA and the west? He is not a by product he’s just an evil man, plain and simple, no excuses
I have not been to your link The NY Times is not and independent newspaper and like many they are partisan and report little of the truth. Its days of searching for the truth have been over for many years.
There is no connection between my poem and the latest massacre. As far as I am aware the gunman was mentally ill and had been for some time, as far as I am aware he was not a ‘fundamentalist’ of any kind. I am also aware that the gunman had other weapons locked and loaded in his car, I would have to assume his spree wasn’t over and he was of somewhere else to kill even more people. I am also aware that the reason he was unable to kill even more people is that he was pursued by a citizen with a gun and shot, just a wee bit ironic don’t you think?
The problem with guns, like nuclear weapons in that you can’t un-invent them and if you think changing the law would make any real difference then you are sadly wrong. I live in a country where all guns are illegal, but if I wanted a gun I know where I could go to buy one. The UK has one of the toughest anti gun laws going but if bad men want guns they can easily get them. In the main our police force are unarmed would you like that to for the USA?
In my opinion you have made no valid point about guns. Fundamentalists do make guns, they are part of a supply and demand food chain that will always exist
Your “Honest Critique” is not an Honest Critique. The reason that you struggle with it is it appears in your mind to not address your political and cultural leanings. The poem is not about “who created those terrorist groups’ that is your agenda and the way you would write a poem, being an individual I am not bound by those things. The poem is crystal clear that is talking about Bin Laden’s “kind of Islam” also “Is fine with Allah Or a version of him”
And also “This version of Islam” and finally “A Religion of peace A Religion of love If you are the right Kind of Muslim And not a virgin” If it is not clear from that then there’s a problem because I see not reason to make it any clearer in this write.
I don’t view myself as more enlightened and I think you do a disservice to the general public. I think most people know it’s a lunatic fringe a bit like they also know that the Westboro Baptist church is part of the Christian lunatic fringe. People are much brighter than you think and I am sure they would read this poem in the context it was written with so clearly.
You say "... ship all those Muslim people out, and don't let the others in, and while we're at it, let's bomb the shit outta them too! It's nothing but desert anyway!" I am sure there is a lunatic fringe who will say that and that lunatic fringe would have said that before reading this poem. To tar the general public like that is simply insulting
You say “It's easy to write about the monsters unleashed” – strange that I did not find it easy at all. The study was long and the edit was precise. There is nothing wrong with the poem as a stand alone poem It’s just your biased / politicized views coming through.
And on a final not, I will never and I repeat never have sympathy for terrorist monsters. Terrorist are terrorists by choice and if it wasn’t Americans supplying guns it would be the Chinese or the Russians. You can’t control who makes the guns on the world wide stage
Nobody has the power to affect that change. I do hope you agree that if you are aggrieved that it does not afford you the right to kill soft target innocents
8th Nov 2017 6:20am
Yes, I saw that you had written about Bin Laden being a CIA operative ... my question to you then, as it is now, is (was) more a rhetorical and satirical one, in that you speak of Bin Laden being an operative but then dovetail into the easy outcry about terrorists who rape and seek virgins thereby killing innocents ...
No, I have no sympathies for said terrorists, or other mass murders like Dylaan Roof ... a gunman who murdered nine people who welcomed him into pray with them in their church. People in that church were friends of my family, as both my parents are from Charleston, S.C. ...
...with that said, you say isn't ironic that the gunman in the latest church shooting was killed by a citizen with a gun. I would argue that it points to the lunacy of our American citizenry ... consider these FACTS (not rhetoric or conjuncture):
"Few stories are more heartbreaking than those involving children who are injured or killed by gunshots. It isn't hard to find them: In June alone, a 6-year-old accidentally shot and killed a 4-year-old in South Carolina, a father accidentally shot and killed his 9-year-old daughter in Indiana and an 8-year-old Mississippi boy was accidentally shot in the chest. His grandparents drove him to the hospital, but he died 45 minutes later. Sadly, the list of child gun deaths goes on.
Though we constantly see examples in the news, child gun injuries and deaths may be even more prevalent in the United States than we realized. A study published Monday in the journal Pediatrics showed that an average of 5,790 children in the United States receive emergency room treatment for gun-related injuries each year, and around 21 percent of those injuries are unintentional. The study also found that an average of 1,297 children die annually from gun-related injuries, making guns the third-leading cause of death for children in America (behind illnesses and unintentional injuries like drownings or car crashes). The number is based on data taken from 2012–2014 for children up to the age of 17." Source: U.S. News & World Report ...
"Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries, a new study finds.
"Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the United States' gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher. And, even though the United States' suicide rate is similar to other countries, the nation's gun-related suicide rate is eight times higher than other high-income countries, researchers said.
The study was published online Feb. 1 in The American Journal of Medicine." Source: CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/
In short [b] there's a greater chance of a child being shot in the US by a friend, sibling or parent than you being shot in the U.K by any type of assailant, even a virgin hungry terrorist[/b] ... despite your knowing where to get a gun (moot).
I would even challenge you to look at the number of children killed in the US by guns versus the total number of people killed by guns in the UK? Psst check this out ...
http://www.gunbabygun.com/many-people-die-end-gun-england-wales-data-examined/
Also, as I've said previously, the war and hate mongers of this world thrive pointing out who our enemies are (like the terrorists you speak of) because it lines their pockets ...
Facts: Gun sales and the stock prices of gun manufacturers spiked after the mass shooting in Las Vegas a few week ago ...
Facts: LMT from 253.56 to 313.29; BA from 148.57 to 266.13; RTN from 146.71 to 186.80 ... those are the ticker symbols of the three largest defense contractors for the U.S., and how much their stocks have risen since Donald Trump became president ...
... and who put him there? Nearly 63 million voting Americans, so YES, I will be criticize and deride the general public who elects a man who has a kill first, ask questions later mentality ... just because the gun makers and bomb makers love him (and profit from his brand of politics), and far too many [here] enjoy the rhetoric he spews, it doesn't mean we all have to ...
Thus my "struggle" with your poem ... it starts off talking about the mad scientists who created the beasts; but then takes the easy way out with the same language I hear virtually everyday from said U.S. president (and those 60+ million who voted for him)
No, I have no sympathies for said terrorists, or other mass murders like Dylaan Roof ... a gunman who murdered nine people who welcomed him into pray with them in their church. People in that church were friends of my family, as both my parents are from Charleston, S.C. ...
...with that said, you say isn't ironic that the gunman in the latest church shooting was killed by a citizen with a gun. I would argue that it points to the lunacy of our American citizenry ... consider these FACTS (not rhetoric or conjuncture):
"Few stories are more heartbreaking than those involving children who are injured or killed by gunshots. It isn't hard to find them: In June alone, a 6-year-old accidentally shot and killed a 4-year-old in South Carolina, a father accidentally shot and killed his 9-year-old daughter in Indiana and an 8-year-old Mississippi boy was accidentally shot in the chest. His grandparents drove him to the hospital, but he died 45 minutes later. Sadly, the list of child gun deaths goes on.
Though we constantly see examples in the news, child gun injuries and deaths may be even more prevalent in the United States than we realized. A study published Monday in the journal Pediatrics showed that an average of 5,790 children in the United States receive emergency room treatment for gun-related injuries each year, and around 21 percent of those injuries are unintentional. The study also found that an average of 1,297 children die annually from gun-related injuries, making guns the third-leading cause of death for children in America (behind illnesses and unintentional injuries like drownings or car crashes). The number is based on data taken from 2012–2014 for children up to the age of 17." Source: U.S. News & World Report ...
"Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries, a new study finds.
"Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the United States' gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher. And, even though the United States' suicide rate is similar to other countries, the nation's gun-related suicide rate is eight times higher than other high-income countries, researchers said.
The study was published online Feb. 1 in The American Journal of Medicine." Source: CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/
In short [b] there's a greater chance of a child being shot in the US by a friend, sibling or parent than you being shot in the U.K by any type of assailant, even a virgin hungry terrorist[/b] ... despite your knowing where to get a gun (moot).
I would even challenge you to look at the number of children killed in the US by guns versus the total number of people killed by guns in the UK? Psst check this out ...
http://www.gunbabygun.com/many-people-die-end-gun-england-wales-data-examined/
Also, as I've said previously, the war and hate mongers of this world thrive pointing out who our enemies are (like the terrorists you speak of) because it lines their pockets ...
Facts: Gun sales and the stock prices of gun manufacturers spiked after the mass shooting in Las Vegas a few week ago ...
Facts: LMT from 253.56 to 313.29; BA from 148.57 to 266.13; RTN from 146.71 to 186.80 ... those are the ticker symbols of the three largest defense contractors for the U.S., and how much their stocks have risen since Donald Trump became president ...
... and who put him there? Nearly 63 million voting Americans, so YES, I will be criticize and deride the general public who elects a man who has a kill first, ask questions later mentality ... just because the gun makers and bomb makers love him (and profit from his brand of politics), and far too many [here] enjoy the rhetoric he spews, it doesn't mean we all have to ...
Thus my "struggle" with your poem ... it starts off talking about the mad scientists who created the beasts; but then takes the easy way out with the same language I hear virtually everyday from said U.S. president (and those 60+ million who voted for him)
8th Nov 2017 5:51pm
“The easy outcry” “but then takes the easy way out with the same language I hear virtually everyday from said U.S. president” So you are still to give a critique of the poem, when is that going to happen if at all – What you have done so far is critique what you perceive to be it’s message and that is clearly coloured by your partisan political agenda and narrative.
All you have done so far is show to me that you are a political zealot – I almost want to write a poem called “Trump Is The greatest” or “Let’s have more guns”. You say you are struggling with this poem when infact your only struggle seems to be that you disagree with what it’s you think it is saying – that is your problem not mine
I see no need to justify my poem as it is a factual representation of what I wanted to say and far from being “easy” writes of this nature and others that I have written are difficult as people have been killed for less – so easy it aint!
Everything I have attributed to Islamic terrorists is fact and every atrocity the do they do from choice, not because they feel aggrieved – There is never a justification for terrorist act and I repeat never! (of any kind) – two wrongs never make a right.
Again you seem to pick and choose which of my comments you actually read. Dylaan Roof has reportedly a long history of mental illness and what he did, he did as a result of his illness this is not comparable unless you think some forms of Islam are just mental illnesses
If you are going to compare and contrast do it with like minded people
And when I said that it was ironic that he was killed by a gun carrying civilian I meant ironic the fact that you can’t see the irony is because of your political bent, because if the anti gun lobby had its way outlawing anyone to carry guns Dylaan Roof would have went on to kill more people. Now that’s deeply ironic
“There are lies, damn lies and statistics.” Can’t remember who said that but he or she was spot on – so your “FACTS” (why type that in capitals?) are not necessarily facts at all – they are simply what you think are “FACTS” nothing more. Unless you are an infallible independent thinker everything you say from that point is rhetoric or conjuncture
What do the following have in common?
The journal Pediatrics
U.S. News & World Report
The American Journal of Medicine
CBS News
The L.A. Times
gunbabygun.com
They are all politicized and as such their statistical analysis is untrustworthy
The stats about child death by gunshot includes all the teenage suicides, which I would suggest would happen without guns – there a re knives, drugs, razors, high buildings, trains. Planes and automobiles – maybe we should outlaw all of them and anything else that in the wrong hands can harm or kill a child. You are trying to un-invent the wheel and that’s just not going to happen, well at least not without a bloodbath, I know quite a few on the left and right who would wish for this to happen, it’s called thinning the herd.
So you said “FACTS” and provided some anecdotal stories I assume to tug at my hearts strings – people always want to use children to make political points. Then you provide so statistics from organizations that have been politically infested so I’ll be brief
1. The stories are point less as I could come up with more stories about children killed by other means.
2. What do you define as developed countries and who many are death by suicide
3. You say that the murder rate is 25 times higher and you seem to be saying that removal of citizens’ guns would make that less? Could just as easily cause more
4. How many do “virgin hungry terrorist” have to kill and rape before you see it as a problem rather than the America made me do it
5. Knowing where to get a gun in a country where guns are illegal is hardly a moot point. I shouldn’t know where to get one, not here. There will always be guns once you deal with that “FACT” then you might try and solve the issue without more killing
6. Gun sales go up after a mass shooting? And your point is?? If I was there after a mass shooting I too would want a gun
7. Arms companies are doing well on the stock exchange and you blame Trump – the crack are beginning to show
The rest of the co-called facts are not worth my response, life is too short.
What has become clear is that firstly you have a real hate for Donald J Trump (your president). You appear to have a hatred of 63 million Americans for taking a democratic vote. Despite attempts to rig the election, and have the view of the people abided by. So carry on deriding the 63 million people who voted the way they did – that was their political opinion – it seems you would want to stifle democracy when it doesn’t go the way you want – Stalin comes to mind the second biggest murderer in modern history the first being Chairman Mao There is a leftist pattern there, stifle democracy and kill your opponents that would be a lot of body bags in the USA – killed by the guns of the military and secret police. Good luck with that.
You would have to repeal the second amendment in its entirety and take peoples guns of them by force – there is no middle ground. Then only the military, Police and criminals would have guns – In the main just like Soviet Russia, China and North Korea. Do you really want to create a repeat of that?
Any way I have had and heard enough – The poem stands as it is and on its own merit, either I have the right to write it or I do not, but I will not apologize for its content and any of the words and thoughts used – further discussion appears to me to be pointless – zealots tend to make people run in the opposite direction – only open minds can have a healthy debate
Cheers
All you have done so far is show to me that you are a political zealot – I almost want to write a poem called “Trump Is The greatest” or “Let’s have more guns”. You say you are struggling with this poem when infact your only struggle seems to be that you disagree with what it’s you think it is saying – that is your problem not mine
I see no need to justify my poem as it is a factual representation of what I wanted to say and far from being “easy” writes of this nature and others that I have written are difficult as people have been killed for less – so easy it aint!
Everything I have attributed to Islamic terrorists is fact and every atrocity the do they do from choice, not because they feel aggrieved – There is never a justification for terrorist act and I repeat never! (of any kind) – two wrongs never make a right.
Again you seem to pick and choose which of my comments you actually read. Dylaan Roof has reportedly a long history of mental illness and what he did, he did as a result of his illness this is not comparable unless you think some forms of Islam are just mental illnesses
If you are going to compare and contrast do it with like minded people
And when I said that it was ironic that he was killed by a gun carrying civilian I meant ironic the fact that you can’t see the irony is because of your political bent, because if the anti gun lobby had its way outlawing anyone to carry guns Dylaan Roof would have went on to kill more people. Now that’s deeply ironic
“There are lies, damn lies and statistics.” Can’t remember who said that but he or she was spot on – so your “FACTS” (why type that in capitals?) are not necessarily facts at all – they are simply what you think are “FACTS” nothing more. Unless you are an infallible independent thinker everything you say from that point is rhetoric or conjuncture
What do the following have in common?
The journal Pediatrics
U.S. News & World Report
The American Journal of Medicine
CBS News
The L.A. Times
gunbabygun.com
They are all politicized and as such their statistical analysis is untrustworthy
The stats about child death by gunshot includes all the teenage suicides, which I would suggest would happen without guns – there a re knives, drugs, razors, high buildings, trains. Planes and automobiles – maybe we should outlaw all of them and anything else that in the wrong hands can harm or kill a child. You are trying to un-invent the wheel and that’s just not going to happen, well at least not without a bloodbath, I know quite a few on the left and right who would wish for this to happen, it’s called thinning the herd.
So you said “FACTS” and provided some anecdotal stories I assume to tug at my hearts strings – people always want to use children to make political points. Then you provide so statistics from organizations that have been politically infested so I’ll be brief
1. The stories are point less as I could come up with more stories about children killed by other means.
2. What do you define as developed countries and who many are death by suicide
3. You say that the murder rate is 25 times higher and you seem to be saying that removal of citizens’ guns would make that less? Could just as easily cause more
4. How many do “virgin hungry terrorist” have to kill and rape before you see it as a problem rather than the America made me do it
5. Knowing where to get a gun in a country where guns are illegal is hardly a moot point. I shouldn’t know where to get one, not here. There will always be guns once you deal with that “FACT” then you might try and solve the issue without more killing
6. Gun sales go up after a mass shooting? And your point is?? If I was there after a mass shooting I too would want a gun
7. Arms companies are doing well on the stock exchange and you blame Trump – the crack are beginning to show
The rest of the co-called facts are not worth my response, life is too short.
What has become clear is that firstly you have a real hate for Donald J Trump (your president). You appear to have a hatred of 63 million Americans for taking a democratic vote. Despite attempts to rig the election, and have the view of the people abided by. So carry on deriding the 63 million people who voted the way they did – that was their political opinion – it seems you would want to stifle democracy when it doesn’t go the way you want – Stalin comes to mind the second biggest murderer in modern history the first being Chairman Mao There is a leftist pattern there, stifle democracy and kill your opponents that would be a lot of body bags in the USA – killed by the guns of the military and secret police. Good luck with that.
You would have to repeal the second amendment in its entirety and take peoples guns of them by force – there is no middle ground. Then only the military, Police and criminals would have guns – In the main just like Soviet Russia, China and North Korea. Do you really want to create a repeat of that?
Any way I have had and heard enough – The poem stands as it is and on its own merit, either I have the right to write it or I do not, but I will not apologize for its content and any of the words and thoughts used – further discussion appears to me to be pointless – zealots tend to make people run in the opposite direction – only open minds can have a healthy debate
Cheers
9th Nov 2017 9:39am
"You say that the murder rate is 25 times higher and you seem to be saying that removal of citizens’ guns would make that less? Could just as easily cause more ..."
Thank you, you've told me everything with this alone.
Cheers
Thank you, you've told me everything with this alone.
Cheers
12th Nov 2017 4:11pm
Anonymous
6th Nov 2017 2:11pm
The problem with religion is that it's man's interpretation of their god's word. And man can be an incredibly cruel beast. Too much hate and self in the world and not enough love and compassion. If learning is done by example than mankind is making one helluva bad example for the youth it tortures. Sending fierce hugs and much love, my friend
6th Nov 2017 4:57pm
you are such a wise lady - thank you so much for your thoughts:-)
I am so glad I am at the end of my life rather than the begining
Huge Massive Hugs -> in coming!
I am so glad I am at the end of my life rather than the begining
Huge Massive Hugs -> in coming!
12th Nov 2017 4:03pm
Well this certainly ruffled some feathers!! ;)
I almost can't even comment further because of the awesome debate already had above...
Valid points my friend, stick to your guns (lol?)
:)
I almost can't even comment further because of the awesome debate already had above...
Valid points my friend, stick to your guns (lol?)
:)
12th Nov 2017 4:15pm
You know the funny thing is I am not sure about how I feel about guns - I hear a lot from closed minded zealots on the news etc, but not from ordinary people. I can see some of the logic from both side and I am realistic enough to think their has to be a compromise to avoid the slaughter wish of both extremes
I am gonna stick to the guns that I don't have (lol)
Much Hugs :-)
I am gonna stick to the guns that I don't have (lol)
Much Hugs :-)
12th Nov 2017 4:35pm
I'm undecided as well... it's obvious that gun-violence is a world-wide issue, but is the answer to simply outlaw public access? Obvious repercussions there when the black market still thrives..
Come on Dave, lets be realistic: armies of teddies are one day going to overtake us all, so then guns will be of no use. Moot point? :))))) Oh wait I almost forgot, I'm supposed to be bleating! :D
Also.. I for one got the point of your poem. Not to go into too much discussion, but I liked your choice of formatting the points system into the heart of the poem, and love the title!
Many Hugs :)
Come on Dave, lets be realistic: armies of teddies are one day going to overtake us all, so then guns will be of no use. Moot point? :))))) Oh wait I almost forgot, I'm supposed to be bleating! :D
Also.. I for one got the point of your poem. Not to go into too much discussion, but I liked your choice of formatting the points system into the heart of the poem, and love the title!
Many Hugs :)
12th Nov 2017 4:54pm
15th Feb 2018 12:19pm
More "politicalized statistical analysis" ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/parkland-school-shooting.html
After I finish my breakfast I have to go in and meet with my school's safety team to update our evacuation plan ... I live and work in a school district where there were three stabbings at or near our high school within a week (about a month ago.) One 16 year old girl was stabbed in the heart and died moments later ... but according some thinking, maybe if she had had a gun ... ?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/parkland-school-shooting.html
After I finish my breakfast I have to go in and meet with my school's safety team to update our evacuation plan ... I live and work in a school district where there were three stabbings at or near our high school within a week (about a month ago.) One 16 year old girl was stabbed in the heart and died moments later ... but according some thinking, maybe if she had had a gun ... ?
15th Feb 2018 6:25pm
it is such a hard issue, the girl might not have got stabbed but might she have to kill somebody else with a gun? This is the kinda moral dilemma that keeps getting wider and wider. Biggest problem in Scotland where guns are illegal is knife crime and attack with bricks, bottles, razors, hammers and baseball bats. Mankind is no better than a chimp colony, in fact they are worse when it comes to evil violence and torture.
I am moving to the armies of teddies argument I mean maybe being hugged might make people give up their weapons of choice, It's certainly worth a try, we haven't tried this before - love and hugs Vs weapons???
love is the answer :-)))))))
I am moving to the armies of teddies argument I mean maybe being hugged might make people give up their weapons of choice, It's certainly worth a try, we haven't tried this before - love and hugs Vs weapons???
love is the answer :-)))))))
