deepundergroundpoetry.com
Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Free speech is only fairy tale
Like Jason and the Holy Grail
It's a once upon a time fable
Like that child born in that stable
In all reality they just don't exist
Truth be known, they can’t coexist
Free speech was never, ever free
With money and blood as a necessary fee
Unable to spill either, really restricts you
Then the realization that you only make do
You awake and see how you’re censored
As your government makes you indentured
But try as hard as you might
It will be failure in sight
For the ‘power of one’ you were told was a lie
You changing things, is just pie in the sky
You don’t have a coupon that you can redeem
You can’t blaspheme in an internet meme
You can’t express an opinion without getting sued
As all celebrities become so very easily unglued
Hate speech, new phobias are all made up
Shouting loudest to force you to shut the fuck up
And the biggest offenders to strangle free speech
The over religious in their vast overreach
I would argue for speech unrestricted
No censorship laws governmental interdicted
I once had a dream, that my speech was free
Ended up in jail where they threw away the key
If you think you have fee speech; you don’t
If you think you’re going to get it; you won’t
There will never be a time for back slapping
You have no power, ‘it aint gonna happen’
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Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 1:14pm
If you think you have fee speech; you don’t
ACK. One miserable lacking consonant tripped up the tongue across the finish line! Arrrrrrrrr ( no pun intended )!
I agree and disagree with the essence of this. Freedom does have a price, but then so does oppression. Being willing to die for the former that ( maybe ) a generation reap the taste is exactly why many choose to war.
Then again, wars are profit machines for countries...so there's that. Our freedoms are limited, but in my opinion they should be, i. e. - you shouldn't have the freedom to kill someone, or harm another, etc.
Just because you have the freedom to do or say something doesn't equate that you should.
ACK. One miserable lacking consonant tripped up the tongue across the finish line! Arrrrrrrrr ( no pun intended )!
I agree and disagree with the essence of this. Freedom does have a price, but then so does oppression. Being willing to die for the former that ( maybe ) a generation reap the taste is exactly why many choose to war.
Then again, wars are profit machines for countries...so there's that. Our freedoms are limited, but in my opinion they should be, i. e. - you shouldn't have the freedom to kill someone, or harm another, etc.
Just because you have the freedom to do or say something doesn't equate that you should.
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Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 5:13pm
I can see where you are coming from but, despite the poem's sentiments I still believe in unfettered free speech. It's a strange conundrum 'free speech' costs money and blood but it is wasted effort because unfettered free speech can never be achieved. Those in power can not and do not promote real free speech in case they allow those who disagree with them to gain power from them I still believe free speech to be an unobtainable myth for that and other reasons. 'Harming another' is so subjective these days. I was on a site this morning reading its terms and one stood out - it said that you were not allowed to promote or discuss self harm, it is note clear what they mean by that or what others might think they mean and this is the problem free speech is not free speech if it is censored based on human feelings or people taking offence - I think if we were to remove issues that may cause some offence then freedom of speech or expression are lost and we must call it something else - it's not free speech if all we can claim that our government does not execute us for voicing an opinion I think this the longest reply to a comment I have ever made (lol) and I could go on for ever - thank you for your inspirational comments - I am going to lie down now :-)
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
'Harming another' is so subjective these days. I was on a site this morning reading its terms and one stood out - it said that you were not allowed to promote or discuss self harm, it is note clear what they mean by that or what others might think they mean and this is the problem free speech is not free speech if it is censored based on human feelings or people taking offence
Well I can get'cha some clarification on that one. Otherwise it would just be my personal interpretation. So, just to understand you, you think that free speech ( exclusive of dishonesty/defamation of character/bearing false witness and the like ) should be permitted despite how one person feels about another? Or, are you saying even within those parameters, a person should have the right?
Well I can get'cha some clarification on that one. Otherwise it would just be my personal interpretation. So, just to understand you, you think that free speech ( exclusive of dishonesty/defamation of character/bearing false witness and the like ) should be permitted despite how one person feels about another? Or, are you saying even within those parameters, a person should have the right?
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Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 2:50pm
I like the gutsy rhyming-couplets - and agree with most of the sentiments.
We can always choose to take offence - or not to take offence - but this requires a maturity of mind that does not seem to exist sufficiently in the general public at large.
Hence the need for some limits . But then again the trouble always seems to be: who will guard the guardians? (Obviously, currently, no-one - which is not good for free speech).
It's complicated!
We can always choose to take offence - or not to take offence - but this requires a maturity of mind that does not seem to exist sufficiently in the general public at large.
Hence the need for some limits . But then again the trouble always seems to be: who will guard the guardians? (Obviously, currently, no-one - which is not good for free speech).
It's complicated!
0
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 5:28pm
Complicated it is! :-) - I see free speech very much like morality in that there is a moral pencil line that defines what is acceptable and what is not - the problem with pencil lines is that they can be rubbed out and redrawn higher up or lower down and you then have to rely on those in power to define where the line should go. I think all countries should have a 1st amendment that guarantees unfettered free speech to all. I noticed that currently in America they are allowing a self confessed paedophile to speak about his urges and the fact he hasn’t yet given into them yet they are banning and violently preventing rightwing speakers like Anne Coulter from speaking on a college campus. Now whilst a possibly disagree with both and I am seriously offended by one in particular, I see no reason not to allow both to speak. People not allowed to speak in public will eventually say and do much worse in private. Thanks for reading and understanding
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 9:35pm
Methinks you may not like this and it may give you a head ache but I would advocate for unfettered free speech meaning no controls whatsoever - legal or moral. If I think Jimmy Kimble is is an oxygen thief, and a total waste of human skin I should be able to say that or print that. If I think it's funny to say that I saw him molesting goats again I should be able to print or say that too, without fear of legal reprisals. I could use more extreme examples but I think you'll get my point. The American 1st amendment cannot assert that is provides for free speech and then go on to restrict it. I know its a strange view to have but if its not unfettered then its not free speech IMHO :-)
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
"David_Macleod Methinks you may not like this and it may give you a head ache but I would advocate for unfettered free speech meaning no controls whatsoever - legal or moral. If I think Jimmy Kimble is is an oxygen thief, and a total waste of human skin I should be able to say that or print that. If I think it's funny to say that I saw him molesting goats again I should be able to print or say that too, without fear of legal reprisals. I could use more extreme examples but I think you'll get my point. The American 1st amendment cannot assert that is provides for free speech and then go on to restrict it. I know its a strange view to have but if its not unfettered then its not free speech IMHO :-)"
But would you feel the same way if someone, out of spite and vindictiveness, said someone you loved was molesting goats, and several others jumped in and agreed "because it was funny"?
What if it cost your loved one their job? Destroyed their reputation? Caused a breakup in their marriage? Eventually led to suicide?
That changes the dynamics drastically.
I was in the legal profession for 15 years; I saw atrocities beyond what you could believe in the name of fun ( when what it really was, was spiteful vindictiveness and bullying ).
Here in the local paper they have a weekly section called " Lock Up", and it lists all who were arrested that week's name as well as picture. This is before a trail and determination of innocence or guilt ( so much for innocent until proven guilty ). This also includes those who go to the magistrate with lies and issue warrants based on those lies.
The crap I've seen happen to personal lives and families make me more qualified to understand the meaning of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
No; your comment doesn't give me a headache. It does a heartache, but not personally toward you, only based on my experience.
But would you feel the same way if someone, out of spite and vindictiveness, said someone you loved was molesting goats, and several others jumped in and agreed "because it was funny"?
What if it cost your loved one their job? Destroyed their reputation? Caused a breakup in their marriage? Eventually led to suicide?
That changes the dynamics drastically.
I was in the legal profession for 15 years; I saw atrocities beyond what you could believe in the name of fun ( when what it really was, was spiteful vindictiveness and bullying ).
Here in the local paper they have a weekly section called " Lock Up", and it lists all who were arrested that week's name as well as picture. This is before a trail and determination of innocence or guilt ( so much for innocent until proven guilty ). This also includes those who go to the magistrate with lies and issue warrants based on those lies.
The crap I've seen happen to personal lives and families make me more qualified to understand the meaning of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
No; your comment doesn't give me a headache. It does a heartache, but not personally toward you, only based on my experience.
5
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 1:55am
I am glad I didn't give you a headache, sad I caused you a heart ache :-( I was a welfare and citizens rights legal advisor for 19 years and I can identify with your experience of man's inhumanity to man. Having said that language is also important to me. Free speech is unattainable for the very reasons you cite. I think we in the west should stop pretending that we have free speech. I am the wrong person to ask 'what if' questions because I believe in unfettered free speech. I could be accused of molesting goats wouldn't bother me because nobody I love would believe that and you could also have some legal remedy without it shutting people up. The suicide argument leads to us only being allowed to talk about kittens and pure water. I had an employee once who was guilty of sexual harassment. There was no doubt of his guilt after all he had admitted it. I had to fire him, no other options. Two days later he threw himself off a bridge - he left his wife a note saying his admission was false, he had just felt pressured. On learning of his death his accuser admitted she had lied. Anyone can commit suicide for any reason – speech costs lives fairly and not – I don’t know what the solution is we either have free speech with casualties or restricted speech with possibly less casualties.
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
"I could be accused of molesting goats wouldn't bother me because nobody I love would believe that and you could also have some legal remedy without it shutting people up."
While this is true of those who love us, those who don't, especially in positions of power to terminate employment ( such as yourself ), are the ones with the authority to change our lives. Your former employee is exactly why there should be universal laws and limits on what you should say when it comes to free speech. Same principle with actions. Just because you can murder someone doesn't mean you should.
I honestly don't believe we aren't limited to speaking of kittens and pure water to prevent suicide. But we surely should be limited from bearing false witness or defamation of character when we know it's not truth. Do what ye will but harm none.
"I don’t know what the solution is we either have free speech with casualties or restricted speech with possibly less casualties."
Why not just honest speech based on facts vs conjecture with the intent to hurt? Is the latter not a form of bullying? Because one can bully should they? It just goes on and on...
While this is true of those who love us, those who don't, especially in positions of power to terminate employment ( such as yourself ), are the ones with the authority to change our lives. Your former employee is exactly why there should be universal laws and limits on what you should say when it comes to free speech. Same principle with actions. Just because you can murder someone doesn't mean you should.
I honestly don't believe we aren't limited to speaking of kittens and pure water to prevent suicide. But we surely should be limited from bearing false witness or defamation of character when we know it's not truth. Do what ye will but harm none.
"I don’t know what the solution is we either have free speech with casualties or restricted speech with possibly less casualties."
Why not just honest speech based on facts vs conjecture with the intent to hurt? Is the latter not a form of bullying? Because one can bully should they? It just goes on and on...
5
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 11:45am
If the principle of "can does not imply ought" has any validity then some legal framework is needed. Otherwise organisations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) spring up and start committing the very wrongs they set out to deal with.
0
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Good point, Josh. I hadn't thought beyond individuals to corporations becoming the monster they hate.
5
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 6:59pm
I could, with caring say to a friend about their weight problem because I would rather they did not die or end up like me - I could offer help and support to my friend and use subtle and friendly language - doesn't mean my words won't make them suicidal - if it does, am I responsible? are my words responsible? should I not be allowed to speak this way to anyone, just in case. I cannot see us agreeing on this subject, although I have enjoyed the conversation. Clearly I have not managed to convince you of anything and the reverse is also true. "Why not just honest speech based on facts vs conjecture" Because nobody could agree on the definition of "honest speech based on facts." Bill Nye the science guy tells me that human effect on climate change is settled science "It's a fact." I have seen evidence to the contrary - who has the facts? / who is being honest? My bottom line is we should be honest on the terms we use - Speech that has restrictions against it is not free speech regardless of the motives used to restrict it. The USA and the UK for that mater does not have free speech and the restrictions are forever growing - yet people still claim they have it - try blaspheming or writing something anti-Islamic, then we find out whether we have free speech or not - you can hold an opinion but you better not express it - that's who we are :-(
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
"I could, with caring say to a friend about their weight problem because I would rather they did not die or end up like me - I could offer help and support to my friend and use subtle and friendly language - doesn't mean my words won't make them suicidal - if it does, am I responsible? should I not be allowed to speak this way to anyone, just in case. I cannot see us agreeing on this subject, although I have enjoyed the conversation."
Okay, here's my question to you: what about their rights? Is it our responsibility to interject our opinions regarding anyone's lifestyle without first a universal door opening? I'm not referring to the drunk at the party who obviously needs their keys taken so they don't harm themselves or others. I've learned that if I interject before a door is opened, it's not received in the way I intend it to be. However, if I'm patient and wait - a door will open and it will be received. You can't deliver a message that's not ready to be received.
"I cannot see us agreeing on this subject, although I have enjoyed the conversation."
Ditto. Sometimes that's what it's all about, agreeing to disagree. You don't find that often in today's society.
"Clearly I have not managed to convince you of anything and the reverse is also true. 'Why not just honest speech based on facts vs conjecture'? Because nobody could agree on the definition of ,honest speech based on facts.' Bill Nye the science guy tells me that human effect on climate change is settled science 'It's a fact.' I have seen evidence to the contrary - who has the facts? / who is being honest?"
BINGO! If you're not sure, simply say you don't know. But, previously we were discussing how you felt that you had the right to voice lies about someone because you had the right to. Enter your former employees suicide due to a coworker's lies and subsequent sequence of tragic events. That's mainly what I've been referring to in this conversation. Those who feel they have the right to say whatever they want despite their own knowledge that it's not true, i.e. - sex with goats.
"My bottom line is we should be honest on the terms we use - Speech that has restrictions against it is not free speech regardless of the motives used to restrict it. The USA and the UK for that mater does not have free speech and the restrictions are forever growing - yet people still claim they have it - try blaspheming or writing something anti-Islamic, then we find out whether we have free speech or not - you can hold an opinion but you better not express it - that's who we are :-("
I get where you're coming from. And I agree ( shock ) that we should be able to voice our personal OPINION; however, not state it as FACT if we're uncertain. And certainly not lie for fun. Perhaps I'm so passionate about this because of my life post-segregation in the south, where Whites "freely" spoke their opinions on Blacks, whom many of were subsequently hung for, despite it not being Truth. The point is, that between the swing of pendulum is middle ground. Somewhere in this conversation is middle ground where you and I would sit down in respect of my opinion and your opinion while rejoicing in that middle ground.
Perhaps the True freedom of speech is being able to agree to disagree?
Okay, here's my question to you: what about their rights? Is it our responsibility to interject our opinions regarding anyone's lifestyle without first a universal door opening? I'm not referring to the drunk at the party who obviously needs their keys taken so they don't harm themselves or others. I've learned that if I interject before a door is opened, it's not received in the way I intend it to be. However, if I'm patient and wait - a door will open and it will be received. You can't deliver a message that's not ready to be received.
"I cannot see us agreeing on this subject, although I have enjoyed the conversation."
Ditto. Sometimes that's what it's all about, agreeing to disagree. You don't find that often in today's society.
"Clearly I have not managed to convince you of anything and the reverse is also true. 'Why not just honest speech based on facts vs conjecture'? Because nobody could agree on the definition of ,honest speech based on facts.' Bill Nye the science guy tells me that human effect on climate change is settled science 'It's a fact.' I have seen evidence to the contrary - who has the facts? / who is being honest?"
BINGO! If you're not sure, simply say you don't know. But, previously we were discussing how you felt that you had the right to voice lies about someone because you had the right to. Enter your former employees suicide due to a coworker's lies and subsequent sequence of tragic events. That's mainly what I've been referring to in this conversation. Those who feel they have the right to say whatever they want despite their own knowledge that it's not true, i.e. - sex with goats.
"My bottom line is we should be honest on the terms we use - Speech that has restrictions against it is not free speech regardless of the motives used to restrict it. The USA and the UK for that mater does not have free speech and the restrictions are forever growing - yet people still claim they have it - try blaspheming or writing something anti-Islamic, then we find out whether we have free speech or not - you can hold an opinion but you better not express it - that's who we are :-("
I get where you're coming from. And I agree ( shock ) that we should be able to voice our personal OPINION; however, not state it as FACT if we're uncertain. And certainly not lie for fun. Perhaps I'm so passionate about this because of my life post-segregation in the south, where Whites "freely" spoke their opinions on Blacks, whom many of were subsequently hung for, despite it not being Truth. The point is, that between the swing of pendulum is middle ground. Somewhere in this conversation is middle ground where you and I would sit down in respect of my opinion and your opinion while rejoicing in that middle ground.
Perhaps the True freedom of speech is being able to agree to disagree?
5
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 8:40pm
"Okay, here's my question to you: what about their rights? Is it our responsibility to interject our opinions regarding anyone's lifestyle without first a universal door opening?" I wish that the people I loved had sat me down and explained things to me, without the door opening, then maybe I'd still have my legs and wouldn't be closer to death than I should be at 57. I agree (lol) agreeing to disagree is rare these days :-) It is unfortunate bur the tragic circumstances we were talking about would happen regardless - there were law against what that woman did, it didn't stop her. for me agreeing to disagree on topics of concern is so much better than falling out over it. Maybe free speech is not as important as we think it is, maybe restrictions are necessary maybe there is no such thing as free speech - that's a few maybe's, I still fly my flag from the last one
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
"I wish that the people I loved had sat me down and explained things to me, without the door opening, then maybe I'd still have my legs and wouldn't be closer to death than I should be at 57."
But how do you KNOW if you'd listened then? Hindsight is always 20/20. :D
"I agree (lol) [ NO! YOU'RE AGREEING?! ] agreeing to disagree is rare these days :-) It is unfortunate bur the tragic circumstances we were talking about would happen regardless - there were law against what that woman did, it didn't stop her."
Imagine if there WEREN'T laws? I mean if the law only affects one person out of ten then it possibly saved one life out of ten.
"For me agreeing to disagree on topics of concern is so much better than falling out over it. Maybe free speech is not as important as we think it is, maybe restrictions are necessary maybe there is no such thing as free speech - that's a few maybe's, I still fly my flag from the last one Poet"
Right back'atcha, Poet. Freak flags are the BEST! Fly it high! :D
But how do you KNOW if you'd listened then? Hindsight is always 20/20. :D
"I agree (lol) [ NO! YOU'RE AGREEING?! ] agreeing to disagree is rare these days :-) It is unfortunate bur the tragic circumstances we were talking about would happen regardless - there were law against what that woman did, it didn't stop her."
Imagine if there WEREN'T laws? I mean if the law only affects one person out of ten then it possibly saved one life out of ten.
"For me agreeing to disagree on topics of concern is so much better than falling out over it. Maybe free speech is not as important as we think it is, maybe restrictions are necessary maybe there is no such thing as free speech - that's a few maybe's, I still fly my flag from the last one Poet"
Right back'atcha, Poet. Freak flags are the BEST! Fly it high! :D
6
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Anonymous
10th May 2017 6:14pm
hello
I find rhyming to be hard work: syllable count etc. I see you've the honests critique thing checked, but all I got is a couple of suggestions and some advice
the word dated knocks your flow a tiny bit. way I see it you've a couple of choices : take the word out or keep dated fable and insert a new beginning to the line. the word 'even' in the third couplet has the same influence on flow and the word 'doesn't 'seems misplaced
all in, I think when using a scheme like the above some things will stick out more than others. for instance it's very hard while reading not to call into the rhythm of a nursery rhyme. it's a condition most of us have
the fist couplet normally acts as a pacemaker. I find the syllable count for both lines of a couplet don't have to match. there are variables which read and sound very decent but there are also counts which will cause pause for thought and re-red which can he absolutely detrimental to the experience a poem gives
it's occured to me that the chances are you already know what I've said, and if that's the case I apologize.
I found the poem easy to read and understand. it's clear you have a penchant for what you write about.
content-wise, I mostly agree with the sentiments and subsequent comments, but I've always found " just because you can doesn't mean you should" type argument to show a serious lack of understanding of what freedom is about. the phrase itself is true, but it's use as some kind of justification for censorship is lazy. : beres what happens
"just because you can doesn't mean you should "
...but I'm allowed to, yes ?
" yes, but that dont mean you have to "
...but if I'm allowed and I want to, can I ?
"no"
why ?
" because just because you can doesn't mean you should"
...wait, what ?
...sorry bout the huge wall of text *hat tip*
I find rhyming to be hard work: syllable count etc. I see you've the honests critique thing checked, but all I got is a couple of suggestions and some advice
the word dated knocks your flow a tiny bit. way I see it you've a couple of choices : take the word out or keep dated fable and insert a new beginning to the line. the word 'even' in the third couplet has the same influence on flow and the word 'doesn't 'seems misplaced
all in, I think when using a scheme like the above some things will stick out more than others. for instance it's very hard while reading not to call into the rhythm of a nursery rhyme. it's a condition most of us have
the fist couplet normally acts as a pacemaker. I find the syllable count for both lines of a couplet don't have to match. there are variables which read and sound very decent but there are also counts which will cause pause for thought and re-red which can he absolutely detrimental to the experience a poem gives
it's occured to me that the chances are you already know what I've said, and if that's the case I apologize.
I found the poem easy to read and understand. it's clear you have a penchant for what you write about.
content-wise, I mostly agree with the sentiments and subsequent comments, but I've always found " just because you can doesn't mean you should" type argument to show a serious lack of understanding of what freedom is about. the phrase itself is true, but it's use as some kind of justification for censorship is lazy. : beres what happens
"just because you can doesn't mean you should "
...but I'm allowed to, yes ?
" yes, but that dont mean you have to "
...but if I'm allowed and I want to, can I ?
"no"
why ?
" because just because you can doesn't mean you should"
...wait, what ?
...sorry bout the huge wall of text *hat tip*
4
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
10th May 2017 9:49pm
I am with you on the word "dated" and "even" and will now probably revise the lines. I am a great believer in breaking and not following the rules, which would include rhythm and meter, but not to the point you make the poem difficult to read. Having said that I also have a tendency to write to perform and that can throw up issues for other readers as I read my poems with my own voice and style.
I certainly appreciate your input and agree with most of it, you’ve certainly made me think and that’s always a good thing :-)
I certainly appreciate your input and agree with most of it, you’ve certainly made me think and that’s always a good thing :-)
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 1:56am
free speech arguments don't really grab me, not when so
many people struggle to free their minds ...
many people struggle to free their minds ...
1
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
11th May 2017 2:02am
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Anonymous
12th May 2017 1:27am
Hi my friend. I thought I'd take this amazingly rare opportunity to make a pot of tea and read some of my favourite writers while it's quiet here.
I curled up with a blanket and tablet on my couch with the cat and hunkered down.
Your poem here is the second I read.
I have loads to say on it but it's entered in my comp so will save that.
I then read the comments and found a level of sheer disgust at the lack of respect shown you by a site moderator. (Dictator?). Especially on free speech on a poetry site. This woman is the archetype of why I left the southern usa.
I feel ashamed that I invited anyone to this site. I will think twice now of my extreme promotion.
I thank you for your amazing use of your free speech David.
You realized it was wasted on this and that's the plus here.
What is it with this personality type being allowed to moderate a site for writers?
Oh yeah. We live in the day where the Saudis head the women's rights council
I'm fucking disgusted by this shite .
I curled up with a blanket and tablet on my couch with the cat and hunkered down.
Your poem here is the second I read.
I have loads to say on it but it's entered in my comp so will save that.
I then read the comments and found a level of sheer disgust at the lack of respect shown you by a site moderator. (Dictator?). Especially on free speech on a poetry site. This woman is the archetype of why I left the southern usa.
I feel ashamed that I invited anyone to this site. I will think twice now of my extreme promotion.
I thank you for your amazing use of your free speech David.
You realized it was wasted on this and that's the plus here.
What is it with this personality type being allowed to moderate a site for writers?
Oh yeah. We live in the day where the Saudis head the women's rights council
I'm fucking disgusted by this shite .
5
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
12th May 2017 2:28am
The persons involved had a civil discussion, no minds were changed and they ended the discussion on amiable terms. What difference does it make that one of them is a Mod? Mods aren't people with the right to speak their mind? Free speech doesn't apply to them as well? I'm befuddled by the outrage and hypocrisy of someone who passionately advocates for unfettered free speech railing at a civil discussion about free speech.
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Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Anonymous
12th May 2017 12:11pm
you clearly misread my words and all of the others. log in as your other self and agree with you.
1
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
"I then read the comments and found a level of sheer disgust at the lack of respect shown you by a site moderator. (Dictator?). Especially on free speech on a poetry site. This woman is the archetype of why I left the southern usa."
So, my read that you, proponent of unfettered free speech, are disgusted that Avahati disagreed with unfettered speech and carried on a civil discourse with the author about it is a mis-read? In what way am I misreading your words? Disagreement and discourse about such are the hallmarks of respect for another's thoughts. If you don't respect someone, you call them names or compare them to those generally held in contempt, or you show contempt by simply ignoring them.
"I feel ashamed that I invited anyone to this site. I will think twice now of my extreme promotion. I thank you for your amazing use of your free speech David. You realized it was wasted on this and that's the plus here. What is it with this personality type being allowed to moderate a site for writers? Oh yeah. We live in the day where the Saudis head the women's rights council I'm fucking disgusted by this shite ."
What is it exactly about this civil discourse that disgusts you other than the fact that one of the participants also acts as a moderator here? And how in your ethos does being a moderator preclude one from freely speaking their mind? And I did happen to have an Alt I used to put up my darker erotic pieces but since I haven't done any dark erotic writing in quite a while she's long since been abandoned. I don't give a flying fuck who agrees or disagrees with me. I enjoy good open minded debate and pointing out hypocrisy when I see it and I don't need back up for either, my arguments stand or fall on their merits and I'm equally okay either way, I get my little ego boost or I learn something win/win.
So, my read that you, proponent of unfettered free speech, are disgusted that Avahati disagreed with unfettered speech and carried on a civil discourse with the author about it is a mis-read? In what way am I misreading your words? Disagreement and discourse about such are the hallmarks of respect for another's thoughts. If you don't respect someone, you call them names or compare them to those generally held in contempt, or you show contempt by simply ignoring them.
"I feel ashamed that I invited anyone to this site. I will think twice now of my extreme promotion. I thank you for your amazing use of your free speech David. You realized it was wasted on this and that's the plus here. What is it with this personality type being allowed to moderate a site for writers? Oh yeah. We live in the day where the Saudis head the women's rights council I'm fucking disgusted by this shite ."
What is it exactly about this civil discourse that disgusts you other than the fact that one of the participants also acts as a moderator here? And how in your ethos does being a moderator preclude one from freely speaking their mind? And I did happen to have an Alt I used to put up my darker erotic pieces but since I haven't done any dark erotic writing in quite a while she's long since been abandoned. I don't give a flying fuck who agrees or disagrees with me. I enjoy good open minded debate and pointing out hypocrisy when I see it and I don't need back up for either, my arguments stand or fall on their merits and I'm equally okay either way, I get my little ego boost or I learn something win/win.
6
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
Anonymous
12th May 2017 1:46am
I think that i will screen shot this whole thing. Get every single activist I know on social media to share it and show this places new standards. Make me a meme .
Free speech here I come.
And don't forget my work helped get half of America legally high.
Where is the web miss ???????
Free speech here I come.
And don't forget my work helped get half of America legally high.
Where is the web miss ???????
2
Re: Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
12th May 2017 7:31pm
Screen shot away if you believe your venting and my unanswered questions will help your cause.
6
Anonymous
- Edited 8th Nov 2018 00:49am
12th May 2017 2:07am
<< post removed >>
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
12th May 2017 7:31am
All of that aside, going on above with the comments and the lefts obvious intent on eating itself.
I agree far too many snowflakes get their nickers all knotted up these days. What happened to.. If you don't like it, don't read listen or what the fuck ever
How long before free choice will be nothing more than tick box A or B.. Thankyou for participating in the survey, your narcissist overlords don't give a fuck about your opinion.
I agree far too many snowflakes get their nickers all knotted up these days. What happened to.. If you don't like it, don't read listen or what the fuck ever
How long before free choice will be nothing more than tick box A or B.. Thankyou for participating in the survey, your narcissist overlords don't give a fuck about your opinion.
2
Re. Forget About It - - for the freedom of speech comp
First of all, thank you Miki. At least I know that your words came from a caring place, from a person trying to protect a friend and I applaud you for that regardless of what anyone thinks.
I am also glad that my poem created such a debate. We live in dangerous times my friends where so called free speech is under serious attack. Where the term “Hate speech” is just being applied by some to anything they don’t like. My views have not changed, free speech is a myth. Our speech might be freer than it is in North Korea but it is still not free speech. If some can lose their twitter accounts or facebook accounts for expressing right wing views then free speech, even our version of it becomes a bad joke. I didn’t know the main discussion was with a site moderator. In honesty that would not have changed what I said. I must assume what I said was not a problem as I am still here (crosses fingers).
For me this conversation has run its course and I won’t be commenting further. I would say that I believe part of the role of a poet / writer is to be offensive and to push the boundaries. I enjoy both and I’m too old and cynical to change that view – peace (for now - lol) :-)
I am also glad that my poem created such a debate. We live in dangerous times my friends where so called free speech is under serious attack. Where the term “Hate speech” is just being applied by some to anything they don’t like. My views have not changed, free speech is a myth. Our speech might be freer than it is in North Korea but it is still not free speech. If some can lose their twitter accounts or facebook accounts for expressing right wing views then free speech, even our version of it becomes a bad joke. I didn’t know the main discussion was with a site moderator. In honesty that would not have changed what I said. I must assume what I said was not a problem as I am still here (crosses fingers).
For me this conversation has run its course and I won’t be commenting further. I would say that I believe part of the role of a poet / writer is to be offensive and to push the boundaries. I enjoy both and I’m too old and cynical to change that view – peace (for now - lol) :-)