Fuckers Stand

You really know how to kick you some serious ass Crim!
JJ

thank you JJ I enjoy people liking my writes but I really prefer harsh honesty.. appreciate you..

love Brenda

Viva La Crim.

Let's set this roof, this roof, this roof
on fire and let the Mother-fucker burn.

You've got fire in your veins and laser
beams in your eyes tonight.

  Inciting write... Dantalyon

thank you dearest Dantalyon..

love Brenda

I'm gonna throw my two pence into this...

There is a very fine line between something I've affectionately come to call 'egotistical juggernauting' and those willing to give honest critique. As I've mentioned before, I'm a strong believer in leading by example. Respect is a two way street - if you want honest critique, you've got to give it. Be the change. Be the change.  

While I hold a certain romanticised melancholy in my heart for the old DU, I'm feeling a lot more nurtured and expressive in this DU. I can only imagine the effort the mods put in behind the scenes in cutting out all the bullsh*t to keep the place afloat.  

Personally, I'm excited about the way DU is heading. There's no way I would have even considered coming back without the current modship and the positive energy that is currently running through the place.  

I'm all about the positivity these days. Long may it continue.  

Onwards.  


(Note: this is in no way a dig at you, Crim. I want to make that clear. This is airing my thoughts and celebrating the way things are in the present. All we have, is now. )

Missy I had nightmares about this poem all night and if you had not made such a wonderful effort at making very valid points I would have deleted it..  
 
you're right about needing to myself critique honestly before I call on others to do so.. I've been here long enough.. even though I still feel myself unqualified to break down a persons poem to say why it works or doesn't on a pertinent level..  
 
I was just sorely missing the days of very honest critique by some of the poets I named hope I didn't piss them off by saying so.. I wasn't really calling them to stand but all of us.. though I suppose we are now more in the realm of finessing words.. while I am guilty of brutalizing them at times..  
 
we are fortunate to have this place at all and looking back I can see the mods had to change things to keep it open to us..  
 
I deeply appreciate the time you took on this write of mine and helping me see through your eyes..  
 
love Brenda

Thank you for the shout-out, Missy! xo  
 
Brenda, thank you for your thoughts. When people request honest critique, sometimes they really don't know what that means. We recently had a member who requested it and received a very generous, respectful, and time consuming critique on their work, only to tell the critiquer to "F off" because "everyone else liked it". Many who have offered critiques (myself included) have been virtually burned at the stake for being witches, so we tread more carefully, not wanting to expend our energy or time on such negativity when it can be directed in a more positive, nurturing way.  
 
There are different members who have various gifts. Mine is not technical, though I will point out form, grammatical and/or spelling errors if something really trips me up (even on those who request friendly feedback). I have to be careful to phrase it in such a way that my time is precious and I've chosen to focus on that poem to improve it. That being said, I am more an empathic vs. technical reader. I read poems the way I read people, and comment as such.  
 
There is beauty in everything. I focus on that beauty and respond accordingly. I willingly leave the nitty-gritty to others as long as they're respectful.

thank you Sage one by mornings sobering light I realized maybe I shouldn't have written this.. you're right so many that I used to count on and in all honesty get upset with myself for honest critique have stopped doing it because as you pointed out they make a great effort in doing so and are not well received..they are misunderstood..    
   
I was just missing it as of late because those early honest critiques challenged me to be a better writer.. looking on this today I shouldn't have asked for as Missy pointed out something I don't give.. in honesty fear of being unpopular and fear that my writing skill isn't up to par keeps me from attempting to break a poem down and point out where it failed.. a lot of my poems fail and I know but don't know why..    
   
it's an art form critique just as writing is and i'm not sure i've mastered it.. I deeply appreciate the work you mods do to keep the site running I was just drinking and waxing nostalgic..      
 
thank you again..      
     
love Brenda

You know,Crim,I haven't been here long enough to know the old du,but damn! I really wish I had!
Way to mix things up....

thank you Kasai though Missy is right all we have is today and we will make new memories :)

love Brenda

Crimsin, you amazing soul...I cringed as I read this post.  Intellectually I knew where you're coming from with this one.  I also know that I'm what is probably termed as a "soft writer."  Writers like me would likely not have survived such an environment, and perhaps that's for the best.  There are a great number of pieces that I come across that I enjoy a great deal for themselves but get hung up on grammar and spelling errors.  I'm personally not one who feels qualified to critique anyone's writing.  I guess my default is to listen to content and tell my grammar police to stuff it.  Maybe this is the wrong attitude...but then I have long wondered if I truly belong here.  I am very grateful that you posted this thought provoking piece.  We all need to step out of our comfort zones once in awhile...some of us more often than that.  Much love...
Willow

lovely Willow I hate this write and so wish I could delete it.. we have evolved the way we should and I love your soft touch when it comes to writing and i've forgotten a dream I had about this place in it I heard all the beautiful voices of du reciting their poems in their own personal way they talk not necessarily perfect but their own and it was a thing of great beauty.. you belong I don't feel myself qualified to critique either so I know where you're coming from.. this is what it is memories and a drunken rant that plagued me in my dreams.. I love you beautiful keep singing your poetic songs..  
   
love Brenda

I hope you don't think i am a fucker. Sorry if i ever offended you with my writing  

I respect and enjoy yours a lot.

Loves and xoxoxo to you

everyone has a unique voice and your's is beautiful thank you..

love Brenda

Although I tend to be . . .

"everything has become so nice
like a pleasant waiting room  
playing Barry Manilow on the radio
lulling you to sleep"

I do every so often say fuck and shit and cum
and asshole fucker, etc. I write whot I write and
how I write it is certainty to the best of my ability.
I love your writing, Brenda, even when it strikes
an unpleasant tome as does this one. Everybody
has their own way of writing, some of us are square.
We are not all cut from the same cloth, and thank
goodness for that, what a boring place if that were so.

thank you Jerry I regret this write I drank too much and glorified bygone days.. we all have unique and beautiful styles in our own right.. it would indeed be a boring place if we all wrote the same.. I deeply appreciate your insight this morning..  
 
love Brenda

Love this fierce, honest write, Crim💓
Don't regret it. These were your thoughts and I'm sure that void does exist within.
I understand.

I, personally would have loved to have been a part of this site back then. Just to have tasted...the overflow.

Always love your writes ❤️

thank you lovely Heart it was just different not better.. I was just feeling melancholy over days that have passed.. today is a new day with more poetry on the horizon..

love Brenda

You kinda finished what I started the other day.  The problem here is that when people critique harsly they take it upon themselves to be your unsolicited English teacher from junior high.  It really pisses me off that the critiquer thinks so goddamn highly of themselves that because you asked for honest criticism they take it as a mantra to fuck you hard for their pleasure and not a bit  of lube for you.  
That said, it's also disturbing to me when people feel like they have to LIKE everything or the author will be disappointed.   So it's a fine line of behavior that has a lot of moving parts ....  
 
 Glad you went here though because voices were heard pro and con and that's part of the Democratic process. ...  
 
Like

you did make me think Poet I was drinking and missing the days when I personally would have a poem dissected and told what didn't quite work about it because in my gut I knew something was off just not quite sure what..

this write still makes me uncomfortable but it did bring about some great points and discussion for that i'm happy to have posted it.. you sparked something in me so for that I thank you..

I often get caught up in what people will like from me and not always writing what I feel is on my mind.. it should be about me growing as a poet and nothing more..

we're all on this journey together and are learning as we go.. I deeply appreciate your thoughts on this write..

you're heard and understood.

love Brenda

you're an amazing writer and remain the Queen of DUP.

Hope you are enjoying your crown, you've earned it.  And I ain't blowing smoke up your ass, that I would want to do in person ...

xo

thank you graciously Poet you made me laugh with the blowing smoke up my ass in person :)

love Brenda

I simply love it! A slap in the face! A kick in the groin! Fabulous! You Preach the truth!

thank you graciously I really struggled with this one I meant what I said I for one need to grow as a writer and prefer harsh critique it may piss me off for a moment but it will make go back and take a look at where I went wrong with any given write..

deeply appreciate your thoughts..

love Brenda

if people paid attention in junior high there'd be no need for assholes to point out basic spelling errors.  

furthermore, I've had a look at some of  the so called ( awarded ) top critiquers ..and its a joke. a bad irony-filled joke  

old DU was an intense fun, social educational, community. It had people who wernt afraid, people who could hold conversations. people who would fight on forums about something they were passionate about then make up afterwards  

people who wernt wrapped in cotton wool, people who didn't take offence at every fucking thing which was posted, people who showed pc the contempt it deserve

it's totally legit to look back at the way it used to be and want it again.  

that said, this place still has it's uniqueness despite efforts to sterilize it and turn into other poetry sites  

you're a good person, Brenda. and a good poet  

good stuff, fair play  

*drops mic*

Craic, yes there were people willing to fight and stand their ground in the forums... but it was the same bunch. It was like a close-knit gang of cool kids leering at the other inferior nerds across the lunch table. Not cool, now I look back at it. That's just mob mentality, man.    
   
That being said, there was a certain level of discussion & debate back then that is absent from current runnings. As I said before about leading by example, you have it within you to start a thread, promote discussion... and you do. As do I. As do we all. To generalise ALL of us that want a nice, quiet, peaceful life as 'wrapped in cotton wool' is just a little bit unfair... because despite wanting a little bit of peace, I am the un-fuzziest fkn woman I know.  
   
I've never understood living in the past. The fact is, life moves on; things do not stay the same forever. Y'know I've known you for a long time on here, never had an issue with you and I don't intend to start now. In fact, you've been quite the ally over the years, not gonna fault that... but for the love of God man, to want mob mentality, egos and what can only be described as systematic bullying over a strong ship sailing on a calm(er) sea is utter, utter nonsense & twaddle, my dear.    
   
Just saying.

Hello Eamonn you know you're right about top critiquers i'm one of them and I know that i've never given a true critique I'm more of a commenter.. so I see your point there..  
 
I do miss the intense debates in the forums I would always learn something from the varying intellectual points people were making.. they did get heated but it was exciting to me.. though I never wade into it as I've never been good at debate..  
 
I do agree this place is still very unique no where else could I post a write like this without being booted off the site..  
 
thank you Eamonn for weighing in on this topic your thoughts are deeply appreciated..  
 
love and respect Brenda

Missy I still respect your valid points no we can't turn back the hands of time and expect things to be as they once were.. maybe I have rose color glasses on with regards to the past I don't know but it did make me feel passionate about things..    
   
I respect both you and Eamonn very much so i'll leave it at that and carry on try to focus on being a better writer and myself learning the art of critique because I think it vital to the writing process..  
   
love and respect Brenda

Lady you misunderstood my words. It's not about living in the past. and we're not talking about a distant past either

the poem is about the lack of critique on the site.

the site seems geared to award commenters who give nothing but platitudes. can't blame the poets for that, it's an automated system

yes, there were bullies and the community sorted it out together.

..community


I live in the now, Miss. but I don't close my mind to yester-year either.  nor do you, miss Druid :D

..but I get what you're saying and yes there were problems. there's still problems. we try sort them when they float up

I know there are good people here. site is full of them. site still has a fair few people who joined before and after me. I love everybody ...even the one or two I don't like 😆

fact is, there is no pushing the boundries anymore cos the "offended army" are the most vocal

that, Lady is where the site has evolved to. sterile


..that said, the site isn't static, it's already evolving again, and it will keep evolving because people.

I ain't having a go at you, Missy. or the people. it is what it is. I do understand the author's thinking and sympathise with her.

lots of love (platonic) and respect Poet
 Edit  0 thumb  MOD

This is addressing Craic's initial comment.    
   
if people paid attention in junior high there'd be no need for assholes to point out basic spelling errors.    
     
     Since I'm the one that directly stated I point grammatical and/or spelling      
     errors, I will assume I am part of who you're attempting to not-so-subtly label    
     an "asshole".     
     
     Some barely survived childhood much less school. Some were cold for lack of  
     adequate clothing, hungry for lack of adequate food, and hurting from hidden  
     abuse to worry about i before e except after c. Teachers do all they can (the  
     good ones, that is) but there is only so much they can do. Unless you've  
     actually worked in social services or or with a local guardian ad litem program  
     you really don't know what you're talking about by saying something like  
     that.     
     
    That's like judging someone who's unemployed or on disability by assuming    
     they could work if they wanted to but choose not to. Albeit some do take    
     advantage of the system; however, some genuinely can't find employment or    
     are unable to hold down work due to a health or mental diagnosis.   
     
     My point is that judging all by some is a generalized blanket not large enough    
     to cover everyone in the bed of life.   
     
furthermore, I've had a look at some of  the so called ( awarded ) top    
critiquers ..and its a joke. a bad irony-filled joke      
     
     Some of us are actually proactive and in the process of developing a series    
     on critiquing for the facebook page that will be shared here. I'll reiterate Missy    
     in saying be the change you want to see vs. glorifying the good ole days    
     where the block bullies ruled the streets. Because from what I'm hearing    
     that's exactly what it was like.   
     
old DU was an intense fun, social educational, community. It had people who wernt afraid, people who could hold conversations. people who would fight on forums about something they were passionate about then make up   
afterwards     
     
     I've been told they got tired of the bullies and found new playgrounds. Now    
     many of the older members are returning because the environment is slowly    
     changing.   
     
      But seriously, there's a difference in two adults bantering back and forth and    
      someone telling a critiquer that has honored a request for honest critique to    
     "F off" because "everyone else liked it". That type of behavior should never be    
      condoned, especially by the moderating team. It's also the true reason    
      honest critiquers aren't participating the way they'd like.   
     
people who wernt wrapped in cotton wool, people who didn't take offence at every fucking thing which was posted, people who showed pc the contempt it deserve   
        
it's totally legit to look back at the way it used to be and want it again.      
     
      A proper debate doesn't include labeling the debater - or, in this case, the    
      critiquer. That's why there are guidelines against straw men and the like. I    
      would say anyone who paid attention in school would know that - but...      
     
      The only reason we should look back is to learn from our mistakes and make    
      greater what was started here. And there is a lot of greatness here at DUP    
      despite the periodic trouble maker who desires a soapbox for their personal    
      agenda at the expense of good members who are making positive    
      contributions.   
        
that said, this place still has it's uniqueness despite efforts to sterilize it and turn into other poetry sites      
     
     No one is attempting to transform DUP into other poetry sites; however, there    
     are some things that work on other poetry sites that would benefit DUP as    
     well. But these things are technical issues and hardly sterilization regarding    
     membership - especially an abusive member that targets other members for    
     the purpose of harassment. And we've certainly cleaned plenty of that up    
     lately.   
        
you're a good person, Brenda. and a good poet     
        
good stuff, fair play      
     
     I concur.       
     
*drops mic*      
     
     Anyone who has actually purchased a mic would never just drop it. :)      
  

"Anyone who ever purchaced a mic
would never drop it"

I concur, but will add that a valid performer
who has ever seen and heard a dropped mic...

*walks over picks up microphone from stage left, walks to midlight picks up second mic, mutes them... Changes 9volt batteries... Unmutes...
Hands one to the lady (smiles)
Hands one to the gentleman (smiles)*


Continues with stage strike as per normal.
;)

"Epic entertainment happened in this poetry thread, it developed to a healthy level... Congratulations Brenda!"

Lady,

I was labeling myself an asshole.

case in point: you stole offence from my post. please stop doing it

( I left school at 15 because reasons.  I'm a community volunteer, I work with all sorts of people. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I've purchased mics)

get off my back

LOL @ Al!  
 
I guess I'm just too frugal! And, in all honesty, many entertainers don't use their own mics!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFTvNPLkB2I

Lady,    
    
I was labeling myself an asshole.    
    
case in point: you stole offence from my post. please stop doing it    
   
( I left school at 15 because reasons.  I'm a community volunteer, I work with all sorts of people. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I've purchased mics)  
   
Dear Sir Lepp,  
   
I was not offended in the least. On the contrary, I was very matter-of-fact.  Maybe if you'd stop dropping mics you wouldn't have to buy so many. ;)    
   
Get off your back?!    
   
I haven't gotten on it yet. :)

Hullo

see,  our exchange here is kind of what I'm talking about. I like it, because it's honest.

one of the many things I've learned from different members here is how to say things with few words. I try practice a lot. but the problem lies with the lack of tone attached.

when I joined I couldn't spell or use grammar. I still have stuff to learn. it's people here who taught me, and still do, I'm gratful for it; and so, I try give something back

I mean no offence to anybody, that's to say I don't direct offence at people. like you, I say it the way it is. you say it with a bit more finesse

have a good day, Lady

Absolutely, Sir. :)

the honesty here is a great thing and I think all have expressed themselves intelligently..

You mean you don't like the cutest pussy DUP? ;-)
I like all kinds of poetry, but true raw poetry is the root of art. I think that's one reason (and your amazing skills) why people love your poetry. Some people don't know how to be dark because they never lived that. Plus people care too much about being offensive. I say write what's in your heart ALWAYS!

As for honest critique; I think no one should be asking unless they are trying to be published. Still, it's like you'll get peoples opinion rather than true critique. Such as my opinion... hehe ^^

Great poem to the old DUP

honestly I was drinking and waxing nostalgic for more straight up times.. I liked the way things were because though like hard liquor it burned going down I always learned things from the discussions and debates..  

appreciate your sardonic humor concerning the cutest pussy DU made me laugh.. I had never thought of it that way really good eye..  

we are free to be ourselves here more than any other site for that i'm grateful.. I just fear losing that freedom some day..  

I deeply appreciate your thoughts on me as a writer and yes we should write what's on our hearts though I think I may have caused some mayhem with this..  
 
love Brenda

What? You drink and wax at the same time?  
But Bren what if you wax the wrong bit in a hiccup? Geez careful mylady, possibly sax the waxing for undrunk moments... But if writing pissed keeps doing this... Then brilliant... I wish we could turn this into a forum post! Keep drinking, waxing & penning young lady... It's good for me nerves!  
 
(-x-)

aw AL thank you..

i'm actually smiling now :)

I feared i'd opened Pandora's box with this and it made me tremble..

love Brenda

I think sometimes even Pandora's Box needs aired out. ;)

Funny story...
Pandora (the one with the red hair not the blonde) said the same thing last night... "air out my box! air out my box!" she cried.
did the only thing I could think of... Put my vacuum on blow and reverse hoova'd the ladies box, now she's pissed that her pencils are scattered on the floor! I shoulda sucked up that box *stomp* I just know it!

-x-

I think you're right Sage one perhaps it did need to be aired out..

AL thank you for making me laugh I was getting nervous..

love Brenda

Mayhem?... Is that a bad thing now? ;-)

Well I loved it none the less :-)

thank you mayhem essh I don't know starting to wonder laughs nervously..  
 
love Brenda

Crim, it's not the subject that makes for a good poem or a bad one,
it's the talent behind it. your poetry is backed up by talent;
write in whatever voice you need to, or like this one, your rebel yell.

I write mostly about sex or broken hearts,
familiar territory for me...

thank you graciously John though this write makes me feel torn as it's glaringly clear that i'm lacking the critique and debate talents i've complained about missing in others..  
 
love Crim

Crim, you rock!

I wish I knew the old DU, but great statement!
Made me reconsider a poem I was hesitant about ;-)

Keep writing like you always do... we need voices like yours!

Love, Duende

Fuck that shit!

Brenda had the balls to throw it out! Now you get all chicken shit and hide em up!
Come now ladies if ones baring all, it's completely unfair to not all air the box ;)

Give a hit at it I say!

thank you graciously lovely Duende if you have a poem that confronts something in you i've been told those are the best ones :)

love Brenda

Yes. Well. This may well go down in history as one of the greatest "oh my God... what the fuck did I just read" comment sets ever.

Just to catch up, I hate no one and there's cookies and beer at my place for all. I'm not dropping any mics though. 1) That shit is expensive 2) I'm a singer, and I appreciate said mics... 3) Nobody go near clown boy with a fkn box, regardless of content 😂

aw Missy you're great made me smile wide with your comment :)

love Brenda

I think I get what you were trying to say, however it is horses for courses - my experience of DU is in the main a good one - I never censor what I publish here and here is the only place I feel able to do that. I prefer honesty and tend to comment that way, so that if I don't get a poem or there is something in it I either don't understand or don't like then I make comment on that, normally if I can't find anything good to say then I choose to say nothing.

DU has, for me, become a life saver. There are other poetry sites out there that would fuck with what we write or try to edit our voices - these sites are not fun and in me caused resentment rather than inspiration.

I hope you are not tiring of DU I would miss you and your work greatly and the inspiration you give me :-)

sending lots of Ehugs :-)

thank you David no i'm not tiring I love DU it is a different kind of site I would have been banned anywhere else for a poem like this one.. grateful that I was allowed to have my say and all other voices were heard on this matter.. I have a lot to learn about debate and critique they are both art forms i've yet to master.. deeply appreciate the love and hugs.. hugs you back..  
 
love Brenda

I think I've become a little sloppy in my critiques, not going into much detail of late.  I'm reluctant to dissect a poem until there's nothing left, so sometimes I just move on and wait to comment on a writer's work I do like.  "Constructive" criticism is taken by some as an insult and it can make me cringe a bit, but I still welcome it.  How else are we going to hone our skills?  So bring it on!

I want the Craic, the Hemi, the Cruel
the hatchet ladies with their ritual rites

Thanks for bringing this topic to the table Crim.  Hopefully it will clear the air deep underground.

thank you Sir Crow you give some of the most detailed comments on poems more than most.. so don't feel bad certainly more than I do..

though I want to see the ones who lay it down hard do so..

love Crim

Although I don't really dig the flow of this piece, I absolutely love the point, and the artistic anarchistic tone that it has. It's like you got all "DMX" on a Brother! The other thing that amazes me about your writing is that you can always expect different subject matters, tones, and flows. THAT in itself transcends whether or not people "like" it because a flexible writer is truly something to behold.
It's been awhile since I've had to time to sit back and enjoy your work, but you're always on the top of the list Poetess.  

hey Daddy I agree with the flow this was an all out bloody hatchet job to get a point across cut myself in doing so and am still bleeding out from it..

I deeply appreciate the love you show me..

xo Crimsin

I wasn't here then, but definitely in another
era and place.. in which used to be like
this ..this very desciption of my home..


damn those good ole, where do they go?

-Howlings

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/poems/14216-in-the-end/

was the good ole days lovely Howlings challenged me to be a better writer.. love you lady..

xo Crim

Brenda, I saw this yesterday ( I haven't been login or been active lately so I"m late for the party it seems lol) and looks like you've touched on a subject that has raised many emotions and needless to say I agree and disagree with many who have commented in this thread.  
I was one of those people who enjoyed the positive aspects of active, engaging participants/conversations and also seeing the ugly side of it too (having been affected by it personally) and i have to be honest that i don't miss that cliquey, tough gang bang crowd and i have to stress and make it clear also that it wasn't just the heavy weighters who were abusive but more so astonishingly it came from the ones surrounding them, their followers, small circle of fans who felt invincible.  
A big price to pay for getting few constructive critiques id say.

When i see now how the newcomers are welcomed nowadays, its actually nice. I see the warm comments and welcoming them in, telling them how the site works, it makes me chuckle. Just 2 yrs ago no new comer dared to say anything in the forum, unless they were prepared to watch themselves burn at the stake, in the public, in the gossip rumors, being blocked for no reason whatsoever.  Ah, yes the good ole days lol

Do i like the new air of ass kissers, the sachherine sweet overdose of atmosphere..I don't.  I spoke about it publicly just few months ago in a thread i created in the forum.  The language tossed around is so unrealistic and pampered that it goes back to my initial impression that this site is more of a platform as a social site first and foremost and poetry is used as a tool to engage socially.
Nothing wrong with that.  If we realize how its serves then we don't expect more.

As for myself offering less of constructive critique or helpful suggestions lately.  I intentionally don't. I found out in the last couple years that people 95% of the time don't welcome the help... even if their settings say they're seeking honest critique.  By default, poets/writers/artists are the most sensitive group of people and they/we most often do not take well any hint of rejection.  It takes a seasoned vet to understand that in order to see our own work objectively we must detach from it briefly for improvement and not many are capable in doing so.  I have tried in the past, privately in messaging, tactfully in small doses publicly in commenting but it became a futile effort therefore i don't bother.  

lovely Rina forgive me for not replying in depth I'm not feeling well.. I feel quite drained.. you made some very valid points concerning the old DU I'd forgotten how roughed up someone could get in the forums.. I deeply appreciate your reminder..

love Brenda

Okay so it looks like the party is over; we can all get back to work then...yeah?(Thank the worm, this was becoming, like a swingers party on acid ffs!)

I am here, on this page because you asked for honest critique, please bare in mind that critique is opinion and not designed to bash your writing in any way.

Honestly although you've garnered more comments than any other piece I've seen on DU. I don't for a minute believe that a single comment was regarding the actual poem.

I get that some words like "fuck" and "cunt" are used to harden the write up and give the raw some smack, but when used in almost every line like that, it's as watered down and overly used; it's almost as over worded as using "and" to start each line. Makes ranting, not poetry.

Poetry 101 (all story telling requires a beginning, a middle & a end) I know it sounds obvious but it's not as easy as it sounds..  In this piece for example it begins at the end once you've read the first three lines why bother reading the rest?
   
2) Poetry 102 (Stories generally work better with a protagonist who is introduced and explained early in the setting, character set ups are an art form and take stacks of edits and reruns to perfect.) Often modern writer's will issue baseless statements at a "you" in the abyss. This very often loses a reader and they are left either feeling like the accused "you" or not understanding who the write is about. Here you name the ghosts you wish will return. But if someone landed on this page not knowing the members. They wouldn't have a clue about what you're on about.

Craic said the subject matter of the write was "critique" and I believe him. But to me you've just written a poem about a blow-job you got in 2011 that you wish you can have again. Where's the hook? The bite in the poem? Where's the metaphors, similes & alteration. Where is the god damn poetry?

In terms of content...
Give my a fucking break. Do you really expect your readers to accept "sterile like a pshyc ward" like wtf is that? And don't get me started on "living lobotimised"? Huh? physicians don't even do that opp anymore. Not to mention it's completely irrelevant here.

I get the feel in each stanza here that you start an idea and then cut it short, before it even takes flight. Blocking yourself and your own creativity.

The line about cursing stuff is kinda odd, I'd imagine a curse is an idea of its own.

Talking technically now

I don't get the bold typeface. It just makes the reading hard on the eye.

And the strange line use makes it a bumpy read lacking rhythm and flow!

All this said congratulations for punting the reads in your book and the listings, but you do need to edit the hell out of it and turn it into a poem now.

Blue Skies @ You
Al
   

thank you AL you're quite right in all of your points this write has no poetic merits and it shouldn't be seen as though it does.. I deeply appreciate the time and effort you put in pointing that out.. this was a drunken rant.. one that has left me feeling completely drained so i'll not reply in detail.. just know i'm grateful for your thoughts on this.. it needed to be said and you did so perfectly..

love Brenda

Brenda.. first of all, a very bold write.. i've always respected, that you lay it all on the line.. say what's on your mind, and express how you feel.. great write.. everybody here made very valid points.. i wasn't here, in the old DU.. unless i was here at the very tail end of that era.. because it has changed some, in my stay.. but i like it here, and i have no point of reference to dissect the two era's.. i will say that as a writer, i think if you shoot from your heart, you can't go wrong.. Peace, Love, and John Lennon..



Dave

thank you Dave yes you've pointed out something that I hadn't seen.. DU has remained a very unique place that we can share are poems no matter how dark etc. I deep appreciate that fact and don't mean to take it for granted.. i'm grateful you're here.. love you my friend..

love Brenda

I haven't critiqued yet..for I am NOT a poet. If I like something I go ahead and mention it and that only if I mean it. I do not comment on every poem if I don't feel compelled to. I only express my opinion and gladly  welcome others'  critique whenevr it is offered. However every human is unique and as such will react differently to criticism and oft these days the reaction is negative to 'honest' criticism.  I will critique, the day when I feel I am in a position to do so.  

This is a sanctuary for many a tortured souls Brenda and not every one is as toughened by fire, some are feeble fragile souls and to them, whom this site is the refuge just to vent their hidden feelings, offers a bit of solace. That unsolicited honest criticism can be that one last nudge to push them over the edge. Call me a softy or even a pussy i do not care, I am here to read and offer my views express my opinion. I admire your initiative, it's a bit like the debate going on in my country about softening the race-hate laws to allow people the freedom to offend and insult anyone especially for their race/ethnicity or beliefs. Some are refugees of that very hate that these freedom of speech seekers are after. Don't wanna derail your excellent initiative. Some very valid points here and I absolutely loved the intellectual/adult conversation here.

regards
KDAmB

you've made some very good points KDAmB for that I am deeply grateful.. I disagree on only one you are indeed a poet.. I myself do not critique as I don't feel qualified to.. I do think critique is a good thing when honesty is asked for if friendly feedback is requested it should remain so.. though I do appreciate honest critique when I get it..

I agree there are tortured souls that come here and may not be up for such honesty I for one would never want to see myself being one on them harmed in anyway..

I don't you a pussy just a beautiful being.. this is something I would have deleted but I posted it and fell asleep when I awoke and realized I wanted to erase it.. was to late people had taken the time to reply in detail.. then this kind of took on a life of its own..

I do appreciate it for its only value and it was to open an honest forum for discussing what some were feeling and not saying and it brought about some mind opening points to me and hopefully others..

love Brenda

Brenda, thank  You!  When two canopies collide in wind, result is fruit falling for the land dwellers to pick up especially those who cannot reach that high. This has been the effect on us. I admire your initiative and courage- one thing that I see is ingrained in every cell of you friend! re poet- I agree to disagree! Once again I thank You for the spark that lit this lamp!  
 
regards  
KDAmB

thank you KDAmB you made me feel much better what a giving heart you have for that i'm deeply appreciative..

love Brenda