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~ Critique Series ~

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Taryn
Dangerous Mind
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Ahavati said:After you revise yours edit your post above and let me know when you have.

Okie dokie Lovely Lady! Post above edited with the "fixes" recommended by Johnny...

:)
xoxo Taryn

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Ahavati
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I'll get you first thing in the am. My eyes are beginning to cross. :)

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Taryn
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Ahavati said:I'll get you first thing in the am. My eyes are beginning to cross. :)

Thank you so much!! I look forward to hearing from you!

xoxo Taryn

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Ahavati
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Will be posted in two installments because I gave apparently exceeded the 8 or 80,000 or whatever word limit for a post! LOL!

Taryn said:I would like to submit this poem for honest critique in this workshop...

Thank you very much
xoxo Taryn

Tethered

...i am repeatedly craving
to be tenderized, seasoned
then seared which will lock in and retain our every flavor of passion


One of the first things I learned to do in college (which was rather fun) regarding composition after free writing (to get it out), was tightening it up like those damn screws on my toilet seat that keep loosening because they're cheap plastic vs metal (one simply can't find a good landlord these days). How would it sound it you replaced "which will" with "to"? (lolol. It is okay to use "to", just not a billion of them). "Which will" seems instructive to me vs 'to' which seems solid. It will also add a bit of natural alliteration to "retain".

when my sweet flesh is prepared,

There are many ways to describe a steak, sweet isn't one of them. What other adjective can you think of in keeping and carrying through the analogy? When you think of preparing a steak, does "sweet" enter your mind? If not, then what?

garnished then tabled,

Line breaks are natural pauses, so unless you want to doubly emphasize the pause you don't really need the comma - same with the previous line.

splayed with a one-of-a-kind delicacy

Okay Whoa. Do you "splay" a steak (in carrying through your analogy)? Or do you butterfly a steak? With a "one-of-a-kind delicacy"? I get what you're attempting to say here ('juice' is unique in each woman), but it's clumsy. Is steak really a delicacy? Or is it a...manly meal? Solid? Firm yet tender? Medium, pink no blood. Think of what men like...do they really like delicacies...or do they like meat and potatoes prepared just right? We're not talking about octopus or escargot. We're talking his favorite: meat. So give it to him. Again, in keeping with your steak analogy, how can you better say it?

for you to devour in growls

What is he? A bear (well, you know...)? Growl indicates aggression or defensiveness, a territorial warning. And while I (as a woman) can understand where you're coming from on this in regards to being "owned" or "possessed" wholly by a man who is thoroughly enjoying his favorite meal that I've prepared for him, I personally don't want to hear him growling while he's shoveling it. So...what other way could you depict a man devouring his perfectly cooked meal? Think about sitting across from him after you've placed that butterflied steak seasoned and cooked to perfection in front of him. What is the first thing he does before even the first bite? What is the first thing we all do over our favorite meal? Again, in keeping with your analogy and the nature of men and their meat...

leaving eyes to savor the unconsumed remains after having your fill

"Remains"? What is it? A dead body? A carcass? (Oh...wait...)
"[U]nconsumed" is redundant because "remains" implies completion (among other dead things). So, in keeping with your analogy....how could you better say this, and retain the delicious intent? When you think of savoring what's left over for a midnight snack or tomorrow's lunch, do you say, I think I'm going to heat up the remains? What other term is more palette-friendly in keeping with your analogy?

~;*• •*;~
*

...i am constantly thirsting
to be held firmly within your grip


Okay, remember, you're watching him enjoy his favorite "meal". Carry the analogy completely through by transitioning here. You're "constantly thirsting"? Is that what you do watching him eat? Thirst to be consumed? Or is it something more beautiful, like a dessert prepared submissively with love (and whipped cream)? You've changed voices from the devouree to the observer sharing your emotions. How can you better convey this in keeping with your analogy?

Transition reference: how does it make you feel watching him devour the meal you've lovingly prepared? Switch voices slowly, like you're savoring the view as much as he's enjoying the meal. "Constantly thirsting" seems like you're in a desert looking for an oasis (and you very well could be, but that's not your analogy).

when i am swept by pulsing urges and aching throb
after they swell, roll and arrive
to make contact with my deepest inner depths


Okay, now you're getting down on it. But, wait. You describe how you are swept by "pulsing urges and aching throb after 'they' swell, roll(,)and arrive" What are 'they', guests? Do they 'arrive', or do such feelings already exist and are simply aroused inside of you? A thermometer slowly heating up with a rising sun? Or do they arrive bounding over the horizon with suitcases in tow?  Do you want to convey foreign guests that come and go, like waves that flow and ebb? Or, perhaps something innate that is awakened and thus "makes contact" (now they're aliens?) with your "deepest inner depths"? Again, foreign or domestic? You can convey that someone makes you feel something completely 'new' without intergalactic travel or getting the guest room ready. You can convey something swelling its banks to flood the delta to gently be absorbed by the surrounding soil rather than evaporate.

On the contrary, imagine how you'd feel if you knew you had awakened a depth in someone they had never experienced. Not something 'new' that set up camp, but something ancient and sacred that you've unlocked. That's what you're attempting to convey here. What 'awakens' deep inside you when you watch him enjoy what you've perfectly prepared. How the meaty juice oils his lips like some sacred anointing for preparation. Go there. Dig deep...you're delving past the physical surface now.

where aspirations will be quenched behind stolen breaths

Do you "aspire" or desire to make love? Is it a career or personal goal? What other word could you use to convey the depth of what he's unlocked inside you, not what you want to achieve? Is physical communion something to aspire to, or is enlightenment through such a partaking?  Go. Deep. Taryn.

"Stolen breathes" sounds carnal and competitive (not to mention a bit cliche). Are you taking from each other, or are you giving to each other? What do you want to truly convey to someone who's unlocked a depth you've never felt? Do you want to steal his breath? Or do you want to breathe life into his lungs with yours?


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Ahavati
Guardian of Shadows
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Part II

...i am unreservedly willing
to be the canvas
you draw, stroke and scroll upon


You are what? "[U]nreservedly"? What's wrong with just saying "...i am willing?" even in the lower case, see how humbling and submissive that is? "...i am willing"
I know your attempting to stress just HOW willing you are, but to submit is in the action of, not expression. So just submit humbly, like that of a little girl...because that's how you feel.

We pretty much understand what a canvas is for without the ensuing cliches. Why limit him? What it he wants to paint? Or use wine?  Or just admire its pristine nature? What is wrong with saying, simply, "...i am willing to be your canvas"? Say that out loud in a submissive voice. How does it sound? Do you really need to extrapolate what he can do? Or how willing you are to allow him to do it?

after each curvature has been explored, meticulously traced,
revealing an exhibit which drips of your hard lined artistry
found to coalesce with silky smooth once autographing my page


Again...this is limiting and or instilling ideas vs just allowing him control...do you need all this? Does it seem verbose? Can you eliminate some fringe by simply saying (taking into account the previous suggestion):

"...i am willing to be the canvas for your masterpiece"

Do you see how much imagination that leaves (though personally I don't think you need masterpiece)? Do you have to accentuate what a canvas looks like? Or how it feels? We already know that. We know women are curvy. We know an orgasm consists of silky smooth dripping from his hard autograph pen.

This is the difference in an A and a B movie. A cheap hotel or a sandy beach. Harsh lighting vs natural lighting. Allowing someone's individual imagination, wants, preferences, tastes to explore erotic poetry is essential to connection, or you lose them with redundancy.

~;*• •*;~
*
...i am continually longing
to be orchestrated
into exuding harmonious melodies
as you masterfully conduct the combined flats with sharps,
found ambiguously hidden behind each bar
creating for us a majestic unparalleled opus


Now you've gone from visual art to musical composition. How can this be worked into the previous suggestion?

~;*• •*;~
*
...i am perpetually yearning
to have walls constrict
imploding as they collapse around you
after quaking erupts high on your richter,
once roadways broaden with a simultaneous surge
giving way as they elevate and displace due to flooding


Now you've lost me and I just want this critique to be over because it's just going on and on. We know a vagina constricts around a penis during sex and orgasm. We know it's desired. Taryn...we know what happens during an earth-quaking toe-curling orgasm. How can you work this in more gently with the aforementioned suggestions to emphasize the depth of your feelings? Not the physical aftershocks of an orgasm reaching a 8.5 from his hard autograph pen to his now "Richter" scale?  You've extended what could be one beautiful stanza into four (thus far).

Did I read Johnny in saying that it seemed there were many poems in one? I agree with him there is quality here. But, if you're attempting to expound upon the range of the experience by comparing it to visual and musical art compounded with an earthquake in the same poem, you've just destroyed the art.

Art 101: Too much paint or interaction of such causes it to be muddy. That's what's happening here. Too much paint in too many different colors.

~;*• •*;~
*
...i am endlessly needing
to feel all of my tears cascade
as your name escapes in whispered heavenly cries
once you resurrect the dead which cleanses all decay,
when drowning our demons submerged within
gifting salvation while answering my greedy beg


This is the part when you're lying in bed afterward where he wishes you'd just shut up and fall asleep with him. Fucking, making love, creating a masterpiece, composing a symphony, cleaning up after an earthquake and exorcising demons is HARD (no pun intended). It's time for the reader to rest. I'm EXHAUSTED.


~;*• •*;~
*
...i am tethered to overwhelming hungers...
• always here ready •
...to fulfill our
desires
and
desperate needs...


...come...

...let me feed you...
again and again,
eternally
[/color]

~;*• 🔆 •*;~
*



NO! I JUST WANT TO SLEEP. (LOL!) I've lost count of all these stanza's now that could be compressed into one beautiful, orgasmic, spiritually delving revelation that not only opens the doors to fantasy and imagination, but would make the reader relax (vs thinking..."enough already!"), sit back, close their eyes, and exhale while thinking, "Damn...that bitch can write".

Notation: Taryn, I've observed you for almost two years, and with the exception of a few pieces of your erotica (that I've commented on),  it's basically the same extraneous expression. I feel this honest critique (which has taken me over 2.5 hours, btw) is forthcoming and a catalyst to your evolution as a writer. I would never invest this amount of time on any writer that I didn't feel was serious about perfecting her craft from a new depth of character and emotion. You're in the critique thread. Something inside you is saying, "Let me out of this surface expression." You're a water sign and yet you're only skimming the surface on your erotica. DIVE. DEEP. Like on your "Blankets" poem.

Do it with sex too.

Who do you read? Have you ever read Kate Chopin? Read "The Storm" and other works of hers. They're short stories, but I feel they would help you immensely.

Then, after reading her, look at this again. What do you see?

To leave you with the power of brevity regarding erotica, and demonstrate how it should leave the reader feeling, e.g.- free, unconstrained in imagination, fully open to their own experience, ee cummings demonstrates it perfectly here:


72.

wild (at our first) beasts uttered human words
—our second coming made stones sing like birds—
but o the starhushed silence with our third’s
~

Now THAT is the aftermath of feeling you want to aspire to. That delicious inhale of a silent cigarette (no I don't smoke - just giving an example of feeling).  And you know what? I believe you can do it.

Now let the private messages saying they can't believe I critiqued you like that begin. "Like, OMG! I can't believe she said that! Don't listen to her! You're AMAZING!"..And, I agree, you are amazing. However, I believe you can be extraordinarily amazing.  Of course, the choice is always yours as to whether you want to grow your craft or not. I am, after-all, but one voice with a singular opinion. Which, for you is Kate Chopin.

xo






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JohnnyBlaze
Johnny Blaze
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Taryn, I agree with what Ahavati says. The reader is running and jumping from metaphor to metaphor rather than walking across bridges that "tether" each stanza together into an ongoing theme.

Again, I suggest breaking this up into multiple poems and capitalizing on what you already have written.

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Taryn
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Ahavati said:Will be posted in two installments because I gave apparently exceeded the 8000 word limit for a post! LOL!

Taryn said:I would like to submit this poem for honest critique in this workshop...

Thank you very much
xoxo Taryn

First, allow me to say the time you have taken on this is very much appreciated. In reading your thoughts, I also have to say of course, you note many valid points, the one thing I feel badly about is that the write itself was not meant to have one stanza flow and connect with the other...hence why I lost you as we went along...all separate...perhaps this is why Johnny felt there were many poems within this one...I tried to separate each as their own entity by using the ~;*• •*;~
*
I will comment in color and to keep under 8000 count I removed some of your commentary, keeping what was significant to address


Tethered

...i am repeatedly craving
to be tenderized, seasoned
then seared which will lock in and retain our every flavor of passion


How would it sound it you replaced "which will" with "to"? (lolol. It is okay to use "to", just not a billion of them). "Which will" seems instructive to me vs 'to' which seems solid. It will also add a bit of natural alliteration to "retain".]
In my original I did have "to" used in that location, changing it as Johnny has requested, I smile to know that original decision based on your thoughts was correct...we'll take it as two against one, lol

when my sweet flesh is prepared,

[There are many ways to describe a steak, sweet isn't one of them. When you think of preparing a steak, does "sweet" enter your mind? If not, then what?]
because I am not a meat eater per se, this is one I will have to ponder. I am honestly unsure what other adjective could be used. Initially I wanted "tender flesh", but changed because I then used the word tenderized...so this I will have to mull over.

garnished then tabled,

[you don't really need the comma]
duly noted, I tend to overuse commas admittedly

splayed with a one-of-a-kind delicacy

[Do you "splay" a steak (in carrying through your analogy)? Or do you butterfly a steak? With a "one-of-a-kind delicacy"? I get what you're attempting to say here ('juice' is unique in each woman), but it's clumbsy. Is steak really a delicacy? Or is it a...manly meal? Solid? Firm yet tender? Medium, pink no blood. Think of what men like...do they really like delicacies...or do they like meat and potatoes prepared just right?]
Butterfly, yes is better...I can only say my ignorance with the actual preparation of such an item is what contributed to the word selection. I'm also not sure how to come up with an alternate for the "one-of-a-kind delicacy"...if I read into your posed questions, something may spark and words may come together. I will revisit it as I attempt to address all your thoughts  

for you to devour in growls

[What is he? A bear (well, you know...)? Growl indicates aggression or defensiveness, a territorial warning. Think about sitting across from him after you've placed that butterfied steak seasoned and cooked to perfection in front of him. What is the first thing we all do over our favorite meal?]
I giggled over this, I see what you're saying and I hear where you are going...my mind is already coming up with alternates

leaving eyes to savor the unconsumed remains after having your fill

["Remains"? What is it? A dead body?But, still...
"unconsumed" is redundant because "remains" implies completion (among other dead things). What other term is more palette-friendly in keeping with your analogy?]
I understand the redundancy using both words. To get into my head and on a personal note, I enjoy viewing the bruises and marks that develop and are left on my flesh...so I'm not sure how to combat that one...because I do savor them...verb:   derive or receive pleasure from; get enjoyment from; take pleasure in. I'm thinking of alternates for remains, lol...

~;*• •*;~
*

...i am constantly thirsting
to be held firmly within your grip


[Okay, remember, you're watching him enjoy his favorite "meal". Carry the analogy completely through by transitioning here.

Transition reference: how does it make you feel watching him devour the meal you've lovingly prepared? "Constantly thirsting" seems like you're in a desert looking for an oasis (and you very well could be, but that's not your analogy).]
This is where we encounter the confusion...in the connecting of one stanza to the other, where for me they are completely separate thoughts, not occurring while he has his meal...additionally, I will reveal what my mind's eye is seeing underneath your next comment

when i am swept by pulsing urges and aching throb
after they swell, roll and arrive
to make contact with my deepest inner depths


[You describe how you are swept by "pulsing urges and aching throb after 'they'  swell, roll(,)and arrive" What are 'they', guests? Do they 'arrive', or do such feelings already exist and are simply aroused inside of you? Or, perhaps something innate that is awakened and thus "makes contact" (now they're aliens?) with your "deepest inner depths"?

On the contrary, imagine how you'd feel if you knew you had awakened a depth in someone they had never experienced. Not something 'new' that set up camp, but something ancient and sacred that you've unlocked. That's what you're attempting to convey here. What 'awakens' deep inside you when you watch him enjoy what you've perfectly prepared. Go there. Dig deep...you're delving past the physical surface now. ]
you're thoughts on this are completely understood if the stanzas are connected...the meal needs to be removed. In this stanza, my mind's eye has being swept by pulsing urges and aching throb (his ejaculate surfacing) after it is released, rolls (down my throat) and arrives in my belly..."they" are his seeds, his ejaculate. This explanation may also help to have a full understanding of your next highlight

where aspirations will be quenched behind stolen breaths

[Do you "aspire" to make love? Is it a career or personal goal? What other word could you use to convey the depth of what he's unlocked inside you, not what you want to acheive? Is physical communion something to aspire to, or is enlightenment through such a partaking?  Go. Deep. Taryn.

"Stolen breathes" sounds carnal and competitive (not to mention a bit cliche). Are you taking from each other, or are you giving to each other? What do you want to truly convey to someone who's unlocked a depth you've never felt? Do you want to steal his breath? Or do you want to breathe life into his lungs with yours? ]
"where aspirations will be quenched behind stolen breaths" is equating to "aspirations" noun:   a cherished desire, "will be quenched" adjective:   subdued or overcome "behind stolen breaths" as the act of fellatio plays out with him in control of the depth he reaches. It is carnal, figuratively and literally for me here. The desire is to gift each other. We are actually giving to each other. He is gifting me the pleasure of pleasuring him and I am gifting him in knowing I trust him to allow me breath when needed.I hope I am conveying my thoughts well enough there. And now, onward....


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Taryn
Dangerous Mind
United States
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Ahavati said:Part II

~;*• •*;~
*
...i am unreservedly willing
to be the canvas
you draw, stroke and scroll upon


[You are what? "[U]nreservedly"? What's wrong with just saying "...i am willing?" even in the lower case, see how humbling and submissive that is? "...i am willing"
I know your attempting to stress just HOW willing you are, but to submit is in the action of, not expression.
point taken and understood. I was attempting to keep the continuity with each stanza in that regard, but yes, I can see where it wouldn't hamper what I am trying to convey

We pretty much understand what a canvas is for without the ensuing cliches. Why limit him?]
again, I can only say I was keeping in line with my other stanzas formats, trying to convey the wishes of my minds eye...draw (scratch) stroke (obvious picture in my head) and scroll upon (as his ejaculate is released)

after each curvature has been explored, meticulously traced,
revealing an exhibit which drips of your hard lined artistry
found to coalesce with silky smooth once autographing my page


[Again...this is limiting and or instilling ideas vs just allowing him control. Can you elimate all of this fringe by simply saying (taking into account the previous suggestion):

"...i am willing to be the canvas for your masterpiece"

Do you see how much imagination that leaves (though personally I don't think you need masterpiece)?]
I understand what you are saying but taking away the fringe for me doesn't convey the vividness I am specifically looking for. My intention is to have the reader see exactly what I do. Not everyone "sees" with the same eyes. I think of people out there like me (Aspergian's) and with interpretation it gets a bit more complicated because in many cases, he is not the one in control, I am, my desires are the ones that drive him. I am the puppeteer. The fringe conveys those specifics. I hope that makes sense

...i am continually longing
to be orchestrated
into exuding harmonious melodies
as you masterfully conduct the combined flats with sharps,
found ambiguously hidden behind each bar
creating for us a majestic unparalleled opus


[Now you've gone from visual art to musical composition. How can this be worked into the previous suggestion?]
I would be unable to answer this because it was never meant to connect with the previous stanzas

...i am perpetually yearning
to have walls constrict
imploding as they collapse around you
after quaking erupts high on your richter,
once roadways broaden with a simultaneous surge
giving way as they elevate and displace due to flooding


[Now you've lost me and I just want this critique to be over because it's just going on and on. You've extended what could be one beautiful stanza into four (thus far).

Did I read Johnny in saying that it seemed there were many poems in one? I agree with him there is quality here. But, if you're attempting to expound upon the range of the experience by comparing it to visual and musical art compounded with an earthquake in the same poem, you've just destroyed the art.]
I am beginning to feel that perhaps I should have posted 7 different little poems that stood on their own so they wouldn't be thought as connecting and related from one to the other

...i am endlessly needing
to feel all of my tears cascade
as your name escapes in whispered heavenly cries
once you resurrect the dead which cleanses all decay,
when drowning our demons submerged within
gifting salvation while answering my greedy beg


[This is the part when you're lying in bed afterward where he wishes you'd just shut up and fall asleep with him.]
I'm not sure how to reply to that to be honest, so I'll move to the next

...i am tethered to overwhelming hungers...
• always here ready •
...to fulfill our
desires
and
desperate needs...


...come...

...let me feed you...
again and again,
eternally
[/color]

~;*• 🔆 •*;~
*



[I've lost count of all these stanza's now that could be compressed into one beautiful, orgasmic, spiritually delving revelation that not only opens the doors to fantasy and imagination, but would make the reader relax (vs thinking..."enough already!"), sit back, close their eyes, and exhale while thinking, "Damn...that bitch can write".

Notation: Taryn, I've observed you for almost two years, and with the exception of a few pieces of your erotica (that I've commented on),  it's basically the same extraneous expression. You're in the critique thread. Somethin inside you is saying, "Let me out of this surface expression." You're a water sign and yet you're only skimming the surface on your erotica. DIVE. DEEP. Like on your "Blankets" poem.

Do it with sex too.

Who do you read? Have you ever read Kate Chopin? Read "The Storm" and other works of hers. They're short stories, but I feel they would help you immensely.  

To leave you with the power of brevity regarding erotica, and demonstrate how it should leave the reader feeling, e.g.- free, unconstrained in imagination, fully open to their own experience, ee cummings demonstrates it perfectly here:


72.

wild (at our first) beasts uttered human words
—our second coming made stones sing like birds—
but o the starhushed silence with our third’s
~

Now THAT is the aftermath of feeling you want to aspire to. That delicious inhale of a silent cigarette (no I don't smoke - just giving an example of feeling).  And you know what? I believe you can do it.
I am deeply flattered that you believe that I can do this but the fact is, I can't. If you only knew what I see in my head after reading that ee cummings highlight. In regards to reading books and short stories, I don't. I find them very difficult. Even here there are many times I begin reading a poem, stop and then return to read the rest of it...then read it again and again and again and still be left with a dumbfounded look upon my face. I went into the critique thread because I was looking to see how I did metaphorically. This write was metaphor hell for me because of my being a very literal person. It took me forever to write it. Could I have written it all in explicit terms making it into what many would consider pornographic? Yes...easily...many like to use imagination, so I try my hand at it over and over whereas I need to have it spelled out plain and simple...which is what I did with Blankets and a few others typically found under observational or self. This very well could be why over the two years you have observed you have seen "basically the same extraneous expression" when it comes to erotica and sex...

Now let the private messages saying they can't believe I critiqued you like that begin. "Like, OMG! I can't believe she said that!"Don't listen to her! You're AMAZING!"..and you are amazing. However, I believe you can be extraordinarily amazing.  Of course, the choice is always yours as to whether you want to grow your craft or not. I am, afterall, but one voice with a singular opinion. Which, for you is Kate Chopin.]

xo

I would hope you receive no such messages. I asked for this critique and I got it. I will take the suggestions you've made and make attempts to apply them to future writes. I deeply appreciate all the time you've taken as well as the confidence you have in me. It means a lot to me. I will say though, despite one's desires, sometimes we all don't have the same choices laid in front of us. Thank you so very much again.

xoxo Taryn





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Ahavati
Guardian of Shadows
United States
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Forum Posts: 327

First and foremost, it was an honor to be trusted with a critique of your work. Secondly, an honest critique, like a good poem, needs to be savored slowly. It needs to be read, reread, and many times slept on overnight - or many nights. Allow it to marinate into your thoughts deeply. I read your poem three times yesterday - once last night, and then slept on the critique, rereading again today just to ensure I hadn't missed anything, or didn't need more time to think. I miss a lot of flavors when I don't allow the seasoning to absorb into the texture.

I have no doubt that if you return and reread multiple times you'll begin to see things a bit deeper. Ironically, I am a vegetarian as well. I think "hearty" would be more suitable than sweet. Or "filling".

Again, it was an honor.  Thank you for participating.

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Poetryman
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I rarely feel the need to stress that opinions are as valuable as dirt, but in this case I am wrong, at least dirt provides nutrition for plants. Taryn, as I said in my critique of your poem when you posted it on your own page: "Divinely sensual from beginning to end and I especially love these two stanzas:
"...i am unreservedly willing
to be the canvas
you draw, stroke and scroll upon
after each curvature has been explored, meticulously traced,
to emerge an exhibit which drips of your hard lined artistry
found to coalesce with silky smooth once autographing my page

...i am continually longing
to be orchestrated
into exuding harmonious melodies
as you masterfully conduct the combined flats with sharps,
found ambiguously hidden behind each bar
creating for us a majestic unparalleled opus"

Ingenious and beautifully artistic erotica Taryn!!!
JJ"
I think your use of metaphor is brilliant, though I can understand how some may confuse it with analogy. It's easy to forget he difference and realize that by there very nature figures of speech eventually become clichés. But how can one keep writing metaphors waiting for things to become figures of speech and hoping we're not so late in the game that hey have already transformed into clichés? It's kind of like the difference between criticism and critique. The difference is in the subtlety and respect that a person offers it with.
In my opinion, you wrote a great piece of erotic verse and I wouldn't change a thing.
It must be hard to take criticism from someone who may be off base when that person has the ability to delete you from this site.
JJ

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JohnnyBlaze
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Joined 20th Mar 2015
Forum Posts: 375

Poetryman said:I rarely feel the need to stress that opinions are as valuable as dirt, but in this case I am wrong, at least dirt provides nutrition for plants. Taryn, as I said in my critique of your poem when you posted it on your own page: "Divinely sensual from beginning to end and I especially love these two stanzas:
"...i am unreservedly willing
to be the canvas
you draw, stroke and scroll upon
after each curvature has been explored, meticulously traced,
to emerge an exhibit which drips of your hard lined artistry
found to coalesce with silky smooth once autographing my page

...i am continually longing
to be orchestrated
into exuding harmonious melodies
as you masterfully conduct the combined flats with sharps,
found ambiguously hidden behind each bar
creating for us a majestic unparalleled opus"

Ingenious and beautifully artistic erotica Taryn!!!
JJ"
I think your use of metaphor is brilliant, though I can understand how some may confuse it with analogy. It's easy to forget he difference and realize that by there very nature figures of speech eventually become clichés. But how can one keep writing metaphors waiting for things to become figures of speech and hoping we're not so late in the game that hey have already transformed into clichés? It's kind of like the difference between criticism and critique. The difference is in the subtlety and respect that a person offers it with.
In my opinion, you wrote a great piece of erotic verse and I wouldn't change a thing.
It must be hard to take criticism from someone who may be off base when that person has the ability to delete you from this site.
JJ


I don't have the ability to delete anyone from this site.

And let's not confuse complimenting a poem with critiquing a poem.

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Ahavati
Guardian of Shadows
United States
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Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 327

Poetryman said: "Divinely sensual from beginning to end and I especially love these two stanzas:
"...i am unreservedly willing
to be the canvas
you draw, stroke and scroll upon
after each curvature has been explored, meticulously traced,
to emerge an exhibit which drips of your hard lined artistry
found to coalesce with silky smooth once autographing my page

...i am continually longing
to be orchestrated
into exuding harmonious melodies
as you masterfully conduct the combined flats with sharps,
found ambiguously hidden behind each bar
creating for us a majestic unparalleled opus"

Ingenious and beautifully artistic erotica Taryn!!!
JJ"


That is a compliment, not a critique. This is an honest critique thread, although we may honestly compliment in such a critique.

[I rarely feel the need to stress that opinions are as valuable as dirt, but in this case I am wrong, at least dirt provides nutrition for plants. Taryn, as I said in my critique of your poem when you posted it on your own page:...] I think your use of metaphor is brilliant, though I can understand how some may confuse it with analogy. It's easy to forget he difference and realize that by there very nature figures of speech eventually become clichés. But how can one keep writing metaphors waiting for things to become figures of speech and hoping we're not so late in the game that hey have already transformed into clichés? It's kind of like the difference between criticism and critique. The difference is in the subtlety and respect that a person offers it with.
In my opinion, you wrote a great piece of erotic verse and I wouldn't change a thing.


You see, this is why members are leery of providing honest critique. Because other members infer it's a disrespectful attack (or dirt not even worthy enough to provide nutrition for a plant), when it has nothing to do with the poet, but the piece itself.  

It must be hard to take criticism from someone who may be off base when that person has the ability to delete you from this site.
JJ


Nor do I have the power to delete someone. Just because I told you I would time ban you for telling a critiquer (who provided an amazing critique per YOUR request) to "Fuck Off! Everyone else liked it." (I'm sorry, what were you saying about RESPECT?), doesn't mean I would ban Taryn for disagreeing with me. I can hardly imagine Taryn telling me or anyone to "Fuck Off" because I was honest with her from my point of view.

In the end, it's her work - it's her decision. But don't ask me (or anyone else in this thread) for an "honest" critique only to tell us to "Fuck Off", or remind everyone that critiques are opinions or dirt not fit to nourish a plant because YOU personally disagree with it. Yet, had it been a glowing one like your above compliment, it would be a great critique because YOU agree with it. That's the difference in genuineness and hypocrisy. You take the good with the bad in a critique. You take the smoke up your ass in a glowing compliment when there's obvious room for improvement.

This thread isn't to blow smoke up the ass (unless genuinely worth it). It's to contribute an EXORBITANT amount of personal time to another writer who has requested it in hopes they appreciate it. In hopes they take something away from it. I did such for Taryn because I believe in her (obviously more than she does at this point).

Taryn was most gracious in her reception, something you could take a lesson from yourself while preaching about respect, JJ. And in the long run, in the LONG RUN, she's going to think about this, and she's going to become a better writer for it rather than staying stagnant in a pool of smoke drifting out of her ass.

She's got what it takes. She just needs to believe it.


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Poetryman
Tyrant of Words
United States
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Joined 14th Aug 2011
Forum Posts: 1352

Her critique was a picayune diatribe that started off complaining that capitalizing the first word of every line was wrong. Then it just degenerated in opposing opinions on every line.
I suppose I should thank you though, your demand that I change my response led me to write the poem "Comment Only if You are Afraid", which pretty much sums it all up for me.

As far as my reference to you, I was referring to your criticism of the content of my character in your comments on my poem "Planting Dandelions", as you were not critiquing the poem, but you were criticizing my beliefs. I Was reminded of this in your criticism of Taryn's other previous erotic poems. Rather than being a critique of this poem, you turned it into an attack on all of her poems. It makes you seem like a bully because people have to be afraid you will reprimand them if they disagree with you.

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JohnnyBlaze
Johnny Blaze
Thought Provoker
United States
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Joined 20th Mar 2015
Forum Posts: 375

Poetryman said:Her critique was a picayune diatribe that started off complaining that capitalizing the first word of every line was wrong. Then it just degenerated in opposing opinions on every line.
I suppose I should thank you though, your demand that I change my response led me to write the poem "Comment Only if You are Afraid", which pretty much sums it all up for me.


And you felt that this person's critique of your work, which you asked for, was so abusive that you gave an abusive response in return.

Yeah, that makes sense.



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JohnnyBlaze
Johnny Blaze
Thought Provoker
United States
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Joined 20th Mar 2015
Forum Posts: 375

Poetryman said:As far as my reference to you, I was referring to your criticism of the content of my character in your comments on my poem "Planting Dandelions", as you were not critiquing the poem, but you were criticizing my beliefs. I Was reminded of this in your criticism of Taryn's other previous erotic poems. Rather than being a critique of this poem, you turned it into an attack on all of her poems. It makes you seem like a bully because people have to be afraid you will reprimand them if they disagree with you.

You weren't referring to anything in your previous post.

You insinuated Ahavati might abuse her Moderator abilities for unspecified reasons.

NOW you are making references that rationalize your previous insinuation.

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