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Punctuation Workshop

Sky_dancer
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Ahavati said:

I agree, Sky.  Some writers use punctuation marks without understanding why they used them; others write without using any punctuation at all, because they don't understand how it's used ( but want to ). Others place punctuation arbitrarily, without realizing ( as I've said many times in critique ) that punctuation is the prose of poetry because it guides the reader in both interpretation while determining his/her breathe pauses.

Then others know EXACTLY what the hell they're doing, and break the rules perfectly. LOL!


Sounds kinky to me.

I know basics and do all of those things to hide my lack of confidence.

Prose of poetry, how poetic, that's a great way to view punctuation!




Wh1skeySwagger
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Is this poor punctuation anonymous?

Okay here goes nothing ........ ummmmmmmm ....... hows it go, oh yeah I got it.

Hello,

My name is Swagger, and I am an over user of commas, except where they truly belong.

WOW, that is a load off my shoulders Thank you so much

i'm gonna read through this forum now and see where else I am a mess .... *coughs* semi colon

Ahavati
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Sky, if you have insecurities they certainly don't show!

LOL Swagger!  Welcome! We haven't quite reached the comma or semi yet; but, we're getting there!  Happy to see so many anxious to acclimate themselves with punctuation!

One last note regarding the period ( before moving ) on is the difference in American ( Canadian ) and British ( Australian and New Zealand ) use.  

Titles

As previously mentioned,  Mr., Mrs., and Ms. all take periods in American English. In British English, the periods are omitted.

Time

American use dictates a colon colon (e.g., 10:30), while British usage dictates a period (e.g., 10.30).

Dates

American usage puts the month first, followed by the day, and then year. Thus, 11/5/2020 means November 5, 2020. The British usage is to list the day first, followed by the month. Hence, 5/11/200 means November 5, 2020.

Notation: The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has established the YYYY-MM-DD format, in which November 5, 2020, would be written 2020-11-05. Whether this will catch on with American writers remains to be seen. In the meantime, writing out the month will avoid confusion.

Sources:

https://www.onlinecollegecourses.com/2012/01/23/the-20-biggest-differences-between-british-and-american-english/

https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html

Ahavati
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I had a message about the French use of 'Le Point'.  For the sake of simplicity, I'll highlight the differences only.

As the English, le point can be used to separate the elements of a date: 10 septembre 1973 = 10.9.1973. Whereas, spaces ( vs commas ) are more common when the date is written out, as noted in the above example.

Another numerical difference is that le point can be omitted for spaces when used: 1,000,000 (English) = 1.000.000 or 1 000 000 ( French ).

It's not used to indicate a decimal point.

Sources:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/french-punctuation-marks-rules.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-use-french-punctuation-4086509

Layla
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In middleeastern countries the dates are written as in European system as well...day, month, year.

One other use of the dot/period (.) its actually the number zero in the arabic numerals.

Ahavati
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Layla said:In middleeastern countries the dates are written as in European system as well...day, month, year.

One other use of the dot/period (.) its actually the number zero in the arabic numerals.


Awesome! I was hoping you'd jump in!

Layla
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Ahavati said:

Awesome! I was hoping you'd jump in!


I've been quietly reading lol
And ofcourse I would happily jump in when i feel i have something valueable to offer.
Btw, not only this thread is a great learning tool for writers but also for anyone in general to learn the writing system of other countries when traveling.  Imagine when someone goes to an arabic country and sees a dot next to a 1.  They think its just a period/stop, but it actually means 10 rather than 1
and two dots after a 1.. doesn't mean its ellipses, its actually 100

One last note, the arabic language didn't implement usage of punctuation till around the turn of 19th century because of the influence of English to their parts of the world.  Even then most Quran scholars rejected because the sacred text didn't contain any punctuation.

Tallen
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Ahavati said:Sky, if you have insecurities they certainly don't show!

LOL Swagger!  Welcome! We haven't quite reached the comma or semi yet; but, we're getting there!  Happy to see so many anxious to acclimate themselves with punctuation!

One last note regarding the period ( before moving ) on is the difference in American ( Canadian ) and British ( Australian and New Zealand ) use.  

Titles

As previously mentioned,  Mr., Mrs., and Ms. all take periods in American English. In British English, the periods are omitted.

Time

American use dictates a colon colon (e.g., 10:30), while British usage dictates a period (e.g., 10.30).

Dates

American usage puts the month first, followed by the day, and then year. Thus, 11/5/2020 means November 5, 2020. The British usage is to list the day first, followed by the month. Hence, 5/11/200 means November 5, 2020.

Notation: The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has established the YYYY-MM-DD format, in which November 5, 2020, would be written 2020-11-05. Whether this will catch on with American writers remains to be seen. In the meantime, writing out the month will avoid confusion.

Sources:

https://www.onlinecollegecourses.com/2012/01/23/the-20-biggest-differences-between-british-and-american-english/

https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html


After my stint in the USAF,
i've adopted the 24 hr clock as there is zero confusion (for me) especially if someone forgets to notate << am or pm >>

& the US Military does Dates as -- 29 JAN 20
and i always find myself trying to remember how to use the back slashes or hyphens - lol


Ahavati
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Layla said:

I've been quietly reading lol
And ofcourse I would happily jump in when i feel i have something valueable to offer.
Btw, not only this thread is a great learning tool for writers but also for anyone in general to learn the writing system of other countries when traveling. Imagine when someone goes to an arabic country and sees a dot next to a 1.  They think its just a period/stop, but it actually means 10 rather than 1
and two dots after a 1.. doesn't mean its ellipses, its actually 100

One last note, the arabic language didn't implement usage of punctuation till around the turn of 19th century because of the influence of English to their parts of the world.  Even then most Quran scholars rejected because the sacred text didn't contain any punctuation.


I hadn't thought of that, Layla!

I had an aunt who was Egyptian, my uncle was USAF and met her somewhere over there.  I spent a summer with them once in Wisconsin, and she tried to teach me some things.  I remember being mind-boggled!

I read a translation of the Quran in college when working on a thesis involving world religions.  I always wished I could've read all those holy books in their native tongues.  I am certain things were lost in translation.

Tallen said:

After my stint in the USAF,
i've adopted the 24 hr clock as there is zero confusion (for me) especially if someone forgets to notate << am or pm >>

& the US Military does Dates as -- 29 JAN 20
and i always find myself trying to remember how to use the back slashes or hyphens - lol



I don't even want to discuss military time! LOL!  Remember, I was a AF brat as well!

Tallen
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Ahavati said:

I don't even want to discuss military time! LOL!  Remember, I was a AF brat as well!


LOL -- Yeah i remember (& i was a Navy brat)

Nearly every job i had my coworkers complained to mgmt about my use of military time  

Layla
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Ahavati, Egyptian arabic is considered the most sophisticated and the most eloquent, that's why most of the movies, books are spoken/written in the egyptian format, its the equivelant of the British english, where T or the R is pronounced and empashized.  Saudi or jordanian is more traditional while Lebanese is more relaxed and easier on the ear because of its French influence (it was owned and governed by france till the '60s) and also because its the only christian arab country so the dialect is not as restricted as islam counterparts.
I'm not sure which year you visited your aunt, but Wisconsin (Milwaukee) has been expanding with arab immigrants they have so many grocery stores, a mosque and a school up to 8th grade teaching arabic and religion (located by the airport area, around 13th street) but the biggest community is in Michigan.  I remember the first time i was there, exiting along Ford road, i was in awe of a street full of churches and a mosque, all kinds on one row, if one wanted to visit some of the major religions of the world in one afternoon of walking block they gotta go there :))

butters
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I believe there's been a change in general British usage when it comes to the period/full stop when applied to honorifics/titles. My initial 6 years at a Roman Catholic school taught me to always use the full stop after Mr., Mrs., Dr., etc.... But, then again, we were also taught to use this symbol here :- in certain instances instead of the regular colon. It's not one I ever see now or have seen for half a century. Lord, I'm old :D

Tallen
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butters said:I believe there's been a change in general British usage when it comes to the period/full stop when applied to honorifics/titles. My initial 6 years at a Roman Catholic school taught me to always use the full stop after Mr., Mrs., Dr., etc.... But, then again, we were also taught to use this symbol here :- in certain instances instead of the regular colon. It's not one I ever see now or have seen for half a century. Lord, I'm old :D


butters
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Tallen said:

yeah, funny stuff it's obsolete! lmao

i looked that :— up and found this:

8

This is an old usage, now obsolete. Graves and Hodge (The Reader Over Your Shoulder, 1943) describe it thus:

 A long dash may be put after a colon, for emphasis. For example:

  ‘The Captain arose and said: “Come, Antonio, amuse the men, and tell them one of your favourite stories!” Antonio arose, rolled the quid from side to side in his coarse mouth and, after a pause, began thus:—
  “About the year 1874, in Lisbon . . . ”’

Note that the colon-dash construction is distinct from the internal colon.

OED 1 employs :— in etymologies to signify an “extant representative, or regular phonetic descendant of”. According to tchrist, OED 2 and OED 3 employ it similarly to signify “normal development of”.

Ahavati
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butters said:

Was wonderin if you were gonna pop in with your English self!

The majority of my primary education was from England.  From the 1st grade through the 8th.  Then I returned to America and had nothing but red marks for spelling and punctuation!


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