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Punctuation Workshop

Ahavati
Ahavati
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Per the majority of poll votes, I am pleased to present DU's Punctuation Workshop!  Here we will learn about the various types of punctuation as well as the common rules surrounding their use.

This is an open workshop for any DU member; however, we would ask that you remain on topic ( we realize there will be some deviation and fun banter, as long as it doesn't stray too far ); and, please, be respectful of your fellow DU member's input and opinion.

We're all here to learn and have fun!  Beginning with a general History of Punctuation before moving onto our first symbol: the period, or commonly known in poetry as the end stop.  

I am particularly interested in learning about punctuation of languages other than English.  I hope that members from varying countries feel welcome to participate.

You can acclimate yourself with the history of this workshop here:

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/workshop/read/11232/

Ahavati
Ahavati
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General History of Punctuation

We may think that punctuation was created within the immediate family of language ( or at least a distant cousin ); however, that’s not the case. The lack of punctuation wasn’t seen as a problem in countries such as Rome and Greece, who relied on the power of speech rather than the written word.  Punctuation wasn’t introduced until the 3rd Century BCE by Aristophanes, an Egyptian chief of staff at Alexandria’s most famous library, who apparently had “had enough” of all the frustratingly time-consuming scrolls the library housed.

Aristophanes introduced dots of ink aligned with the middle (·), bottom (.) or top (·) of each line, representing simple pauses reflecting natural conversation.  Unfortunately, this method was abandoned when Rome overthrew the Greek empire. Public speaking remained the dominant form of communication until the Roman empire crumbled in the 3rd and 4th century AD, giving way to Christianity. By the 6th century, Christian writers used punctuation in their own works to preserve the original context. Books became an integral part of the religion’s expansion by spreading the word through psalms and gospels, which included paragraph marks (Γ, ¢, 7, ¶ and others).

It was a Spanish scholar, Isidore of Seville, who updated Aristophanes’ system in the 7th Century by arranging the dots in order of height to indicate short (.), medium (·) and long (·) pauses respectively. Most importantly, Isidore connected punctuation with meaning for the first time in written history; however, it was Irish and Scottish monks who introduced spaces between words. And it was a German monk named Alcuin, under the direction of King Charlemagne, who created what we know as lowercase letters.

Writing had come of age, and punctuation was an indispensable part of it.

* We'll break here for comments before moving onto our first symbol, the Period! Or, commonly known in poetry as the end stop.  

Tallen
Tallen
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Isn't the Period in the UK known as Full Stop?
I recall a chat i had with my ex from Scotland and we had this detailed conversation about a Period (Yeah we chatted about a lot of differences between our countries)

Ahavati
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Tallen said:Isn't the Period in the UK known as Full Stop?
I recall a chat i had with my ex from Scotland and we had this detailed conversation about a Period (Yeah we chatted about a lot of differences between our countries)


Yes it is!  I was hoping others would jump in from terms across the pond(s)!  I am most familiar with end stop for poetic purposes. I haven't used the term full stop in ages!

Tallen
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Ahavati said:

Yes it is!  I was hoping others would jump in from terms across the pond(s)!  I am most familiar with end stop for poetic purposes. I haven't used the term full stop in ages!


Well, having an ex from Scotland,
i've learned a lot of our differences in language and speech and written word.

Ahavati
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Tallen said:

Well, having an ex from Scotland,
i've learned a lot of our differences in language and speech and written word.


Great! It's going to be a fun learning experience!

Tallen
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Ahavati said:

Great! It's going to be a fun learning experience!


It is, and for me because every time You share
i will be looking up shit to make sure You are not feeding sheep because it's my nature to rebel and to Question and to verify.

It's why, when i used to attend Christian churches the elders would cringe when i said i wanted to be in this or that group.  I had a reputation.  

It's why i end up learning way more than You will present.

Ahavati
Ahavati
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Tallen said:

It is, and for me because every time You share
i will be looking up shit to make sure You are not feeding sheep because it's my nature to rebel and to Question and to verify.

It's why, when i used to attend Christian churches the elders would cringe when i said i wanted to be in this or that group.  I had a reputation.  


Well I don't cringe from someone seeking the truth!  On the contrary,  if what I have been taught proves to be incorrect, I welcome the opportunity to learn the correct way.  Not to say I'll adhere to it when writing! That is a horse of a different color!

Tallen
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Ahavati said:

Well I don't cringe from someone seeking the truth!  On the contrary,  if what I have been taught proves to be incorrect, I welcome the opportunity to learn the correct way.  Not to say I'll adhere to it when writing! That is a horse of a different color!


I don't want You to think i am being confrontational.
No, rather, i am a researcher -- i effin love doing research (wish i could find a paid job doing it) and armed with my OCD talent, i am relentless in looking up stuff.  I do it to our Brother cabcool, all-the-time.  

Ahavati
Ahavati
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Tallen said:

I don't want You to think i am being confrontational.
No, rather, i am a researcher -- i effin love doing research (wish i could find a paid job doing it) and armed with my OCD talent, i am relentless in looking up stuff.  I do it to our Brother cabcool, all-the-time.  


Well good! Then you can help me with this workshop!  Start with the origin of punctuation until we move onto the individual symbols!  I only posted a brief history overview; however, if you would like to add more, feel free.

Tallen
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Ahavati said:

Well good! Then you can help me with this workshop!  Start with the origin of punctuation until we move onto the individual symbols!  I only posted a brief history overview; however, if you would like to add more, feel free.


I was super tempted --

& being of a schizophrenic nature, i was attempted into indulging into the FLIGHT of IDEAS, and forging into different languages i've studied or learned or researched but i know this is Your gig and i have to just jot down shit and eventually we will cover it -- LOL  

Ahavati
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Tallen said:

I was super tempted --

& being of a schizophrenic nature, i was attempted into indulging into the FLIGHT of IDEAS, and forging into different languages i've studied or learned or researched but i know this is Your gig and i have to just jot down shit and eventually we will cover it -- LOL  


While it was born from a desire to teach, having repeated myself several times while critiquing, it's really not "my" gig.  It's the site's!  Anyone and everyone is welcome to contribute.  In teaching we learn and in learning we teach.  📝🎓📕

nomoth
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really loved this first installment A. would love some sources too,  maybe to follow up on my own time....did not know any of this and is so interesting...

maybe off topic...but i understood that monks were paid and charged for, for each letter/symbol/('diacritics' - is that right?)  that they wrote or 'designed'. do not know how true this may be. that french words use so many superfluous letters was a reason for this...to earn a few extra bob..., (though maybe a myth/joke because of this,)  as  I understood.

so interesting. Tallens contributions I am sure will be so interesting toox

had to re edit this a few times to replace the commas inside the brackets.

Ahavati
Ahavati
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nomoth said:really loved this first installment A. would love some sources too,  maybe to follow up on my own time....did not know any of this and is so interesting...

maybe off topic...but i understood that monks were paid and charged for, for each letter/symbol/('diacritics' - is that right?)  that they wrote or 'designed'. do not know how true this may be. that french words use so many superfluous letters was a reason for this...to earn a few extra bob..., (though maybe a myth/joke because of this,)  as  I understood.

so interesting. Tallens contributions I am sure will be so interesting toox

had to re edit this a few times to replace the commas inside the brackets.


Sources are a fantastic idea, nomoth!  I pulled from several sources ( including my own books ) to provide a brief overview; however, here are some valuable sources. *

https://www.britannica.com/topic/punctuation

Wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

https://www.amazon.com/Stigmatology-Punctuation-Experience-Studies-Poetics/dp/0823278123/ref=asc_df_0823278123/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312094773753&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10697567502028955967&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009911&hvtargid=pla-524552085019&psc=1

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-us/books/t-g-ledgard/punctuation/GOR004021611?gclid=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_NnkgSGy8Nf3TU8UDGwb5cYWgNIC6ZDN8YS5Lx38cTQxn_Lc_rFb_YaAvDYEALw_wcB

I also need to mention that the Mesha Stele ( 840 BC ) is purported to be the oldest recorded document ( stone tablet ) utilizing points between words, and horizontal strokes between the sense section; however, the same points are also applied under letters; therefore, there is some dispute regarding the actual points being punctuation vs a part of the alphabet, which is also under debate as to whether it's Phoenician or Old Hebrew script.

* Notations: Various sources listed differing timelines;  I went with the majority.  If there was no majority I went with the earliest.

nomoth
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thank you.. i do like this...gonna bury my dirty nerd nose in this and in no way contentiously.... *pushes you awkwardly in the back*


edit: jokingly-to get on with it.


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