Would you be interested in a punctuation workshop?

61.11% • 11 votes • Yep
22.22% • 4 votes • Nope
11.11% • 2 votes • Is a lowercase i in the middle of parenthesis an ass ( i )? ( Just select Yep. )
5.56% • 1 vote • Can you make boobs like this ( . )( . ) ? ( Just select Yep. )
0% • 0 votes • What is punctuation? ( Just select Yep. )
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Would you be interested in a punctuation workshop?

JohnnyBlaze
JohnnyBlaze
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Most of my punctuation usage over the years has been instinctual, so I can't even say that I am doing it properly ..?

Left parenthesis space words space right parenthesis = ( words )
No spaces (words) is just too claustrophobic to me.

Right and wrong, left and right, and hamsters are not all vermin. < second comma necessary before the final "and"
Mice, rats and hamsters are all vermin. < no second comma before the "and".
In essence, never go 2 "and"'s without a comma for seperation so groupings  stay properly grouped.

He left the room ... slowly ... staggering ... as he walked.
Ellipsis follows or precedes space.
He left the room...slowly...staggering...as he walked.
Too claustrophopic for me without the spaces.

As a personal preference only ... 3 dot ellipsis as pause mid statement and 5 dot ellipsis for statements trailing off into .....

And if you are ending a statement with ellipsis and punctuation, add it to the ellipsis like so ...? or ...?!


Ahavati
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The most important rule in ANYTHING written is READABILITY.  

The typical rule is to space before and after parenthesis; however, not within them.  Does that matter? That depends. Is this for a school project? Or a professional document such as a court brief?  Then follow the rule to the letter.  Is this a personal writing project such as a book or poem?  Then the rules are bendable as long as it is readable.  

Same thing with ellipses, except they're much more flexible than parenthesis, and depend largely on editorial preference.  The most common is to space ( as in parenthesis ) before and after the ellipses; however, many publishing houses, writers, and editors feel no space is necessary.  Remember, if in school or a university it's best to go with the most commonly acceptable method, while independent projects allow you to deviate from the norm.

It's true that rules are made to be broken, and when you understand those rules you know how to break ( or use ) them successfully.

Moving forward, I've had some good response to this potential workshop; therefore, I'm going to move forward.   I would love to know if there is anyone from another country who would like to help me? Punctuation/grammar varies per country, and I would love to learn something new.   I could present discuss the English/Western methods followed by someone from a different country who would like to participate.  Or, if someone versed in British grammar would rather present such, I'll do the Western.

This could really be educationally fun!


Layla
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Delete

Layla
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I originally am from another part of the world and been exposed to 3 languages which are non western and i'm must say the punctution is somewhat different.   I think the western world looks at the sentence as a whole when punctution is used while other languages concentrate on the words individually crowning them with certain punctuation marks for emphasis.

Here are some examples.

Our period [.] as some call it full stop, is actually [:] the colon, which is placed at the end of the story, the letter, the poem etc.

We use [.] (one dot) in the paragraph to separate sentences.
We do use comma [,] separate group of things.

Our question mark is not [?], but rather its a symbol that looks like an eye or eyebrow [ ՞ ] and its placed above a word in a sentence  but instead of turning the whole sentence into a question, one word that dominates in that sentence plays the most important role therefore gets the question mark above it.

The single quotation mark ['] plays a different role, Its used to abridge or bridge two words together, as a sound that's not part of the alphabet, it has a low 'a' sound sort of cut in half.

There's a symbol that has the reverse shape of single quotation mark [ ՝ ]  without the little dark dot and that's used at the end of certain words that are followed with adjectives to describe it, to give it purpose, color, vividness.

The Exclamation mark doesn't look like this [!} but rather like this [ ՜ ] like a wave, and it goes above the word that dominates the sentence rather than at the end of the sentence.

Occasionally ellipses is used but more than ellipses long dash is used [___] for the same purpose.

Edit: No quotation marks used in dialogue.

Ahavati
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It really does differ, Layla. I've read up on it a bit, particularly Spanish and Korean.  That is why I would love to have one or more members from different countries to participate.  I'll be starting with the history of punctuation, then someone else can jump in if they can extrapolate.  Then we can move onto the individual punctuation marks per country.  

I love learning; knowledge expansion is exciting.  I think we could hold a comp at the end of the workshop.

Layla
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I agree, this is a great discussion topic Ahavati, which i'm curious myself to learn the differences.

Ahavati
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Layla said:I agree, this is a great discussion topic Ahavati, which i'm curious myself to learn the differences.

So you're willing then?

It shouldn't be too difficult, really.  There are only 14 in English grammar.  Not sure about other countries in regards to substitution of what we use; or, additional to what we use.

Layla
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I forgot to add, we never use quotation marks in a dialogue.

Sky_dancer
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Yes! Omg, yes! Where the fuck does that bastard semi colon go? Thise two dashes, wtf? At the end of a sentence or before? I would LOVE a workshop. I could mayhaps submit a poem I know needs a good punctuating (I need a good punctuating, Miss!)

I'm not formally educated (not ashamed, just fact, poor = shit education) so I became an autodidact. Suffice to say I've only begun to learn about punctuation since coming here.

I may have dyslexia, it's comorbid with ASC, so any help would be grateful.

Thank god for auto correct!

Ahavati
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Hi, Sky!  I will be starting the Workshop next week at some point. I'm compiling the history now; I figured that's a good place to start before moving into the actual symbols. I am excited to learn something new myself and am looking forward to it.

As far as formal education goes, some of the most successful writers taught themselves.  Also, I was diagnosed as dyslexic; you will do absolutely fine.  xo

P.S. A semicolon separates two independent clauses ( full sentences ); and, dashes are pussycats:

The hyphen is mostly used to combine words into compounds ( long-term, mother-in-law, etc. )  and separate numbers that are not inclusive (phone , social security, etc. ); or, a minus sign in mathematics.  

The em dash is the mark most of us picture when we hear the term dash. It is significantly longer than the hyphen.

The em dash creates strong breaks in sentence structures. They can even be used in pairs like parentheses—that is, to enclose a word, or a phrase, or a clause—or they can be used alone to detach one end of a sentence from the main body, particularly in sentences that are long, complex, or contain a number of commas. If you confuse the em dash with the hyphen, it can render a sentence virtually impossible to read. If we had used a hyphen in place of each dash two sentences ago, it would seem as though we had hyphenated two pairs of words in the sentence: “parentheses-that” and “clause-or,” neither of which makes any sense.  

The rule of thumb I use is reserving em dashes for breaks where commas are not a strong enough break. If a comma (or a pair of them) works, I use it.  Parentheses tend to downplay an idea or suggest information in them is helpful but not necessary; em dashes draw attention to the information, signaling the reader it is important.

Fun facts about the em/en dash you might not know:

The en dash is slightly longer than the hyphen but not as long as the em dash, and is the width of the letter “N,” whereas the em dash is the width of the letter “M”—thus their names!  The en dash means, quite simply, “through" and used largely to indicate inclusive dates and numbers:  January 1–August 17; pp. 37–59.

Anyway, more to come during the workshop.

Sky_dancer
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Ahavati said:Hi, Sky!  I will be starting the Workshop next week at some point. I'm compiling the history now; I figured that's a good place to start before moving into the actual symbols. I am excited to learn something new myself and am looking forward to it.

As far as formal education goes, some of the most successful writers taught themselves.  Also, I was diagnosed as dyslexic; you will do absolutely fine.  xo

P.S. A semicolon separates two independent clauses ( full sentences ); and, dashes are pussycats:

The hyphen is mostly used to combine words into compounds ( long-term, mother-in-law, etc. )  and separate numbers that are not inclusive (phone , social security, etc. ); or, a minus sign in mathematics.  

The em dash is the mark most of us picture when we hear the term dash. It is significantly longer than the hyphen.

The em dash creates strong breaks in sentence structures. They can even be used in pairs like parentheses—that is, to enclose a word, or a phrase, or a clause—or they can be used alone to detach one end of a sentence from the main body, particularly in sentences that are long, complex, or contain a number of commas. If you confuse the em dash with the hyphen, it can render a sentence virtually impossible to read. If we had used a hyphen in place of each dash two sentences ago, it would seem as though we had hyphenated two pairs of words in the sentence: “parentheses-that” and “clause-or,” neither of which makes any sense.  

The rule of thumb I use is reserving em dashes for breaks where commas are not a strong enough break. If a comma (or a pair of them) works, I use it.  Parentheses tend to downplay an idea or suggest information in them is helpful but not necessary; em dashes draw attention to the information, signaling the reader it is important.

Fun facts about the em/en dash you might not know:

The en dash is slightly longer than the hyphen but not as long as the em dash, and is the width of the letter “N,” whereas the em dash is the width of the letter “M”—thus their names!  The en dash means, quite simply, “through" and used largely to indicate inclusive dates and numbers:  January 1–August 17; pp. 37–59.

Anyway, more to come during the workshop.


Hnnng nerdgasm.


JohnnyBlaze
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I haz a million dashes I need to replace with proper emdashes someday. 😑

Ahavati
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JohnnyBlaze said:I haz a million dashes I need to replace with proper emdashes someday. 😑

Alt ( + ) 0151

JohnnyBlaze
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Ahavati said:

Alt ( + ) 0151


But I'm rarely on the laptop! LOL I'll spend a day copy pasting them in.


Ahavati
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JohnnyBlaze said:

But I'm rarely on the laptop! LOL I'll spend a day copy pasting them in.



I halps you


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