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How Much Should Critique Affect You?

Miss_Sub
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Mister_Write said:

Seems obvious to me too.  The cliche, "Everybody's a critic" comes to mind.  If those who offered their reviews on this site would preface their commentaries with their accomplishments, I'd be more likely to submit my work to them.


Jesus... Can you see us puny peasants from your pedestal up there or are we just ants through binoculars at this point?

-Missy DeMeanour (proud non-educated ape)

David_Macleod
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https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/groups/cafe-critique/discussion/3049/

Cafe Critique the only official critique group - plenty of poets in here just ready to help


clewluss
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I have come to learn that another person's critique can be devastating.

I once criticized a member for some spelling /Grammer errors thatshe kept on making.
It affected her so much she quit dup.

I thought she overreacted, but now realize how devastating criticism can be, as I have been on the receiving end of it recently.

Instead of calling out bad Grammer publicly, I should have done so, by a polite PM.

JohnnyBlaze
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Mister_Write said:

Seems obvious to me too.  The cliche, "Everybody's a critic" comes to mind.  If those who offered their reviews on this site would preface their commentaries with their accomplishments, I'd be more likely to submit my work to them.


In the event you are having difficulty with any aspect of your writing, I would simply suggest asking for assistance from the people here whose work you've  consistently given high praise to and RL'd. They are good writers according to your own standards and you do support their good writing - seems plausible that they would be eager to return the favor.

Blackwolf
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Miss_Sub said:

Jesus... Can you see us puny peasants from your pedestal up there or are we just ants through binoculars at this point?

-Missy DeMeanour (proud non-educated ape)


Actually , in the book "Ishmael" , Daniel Quinn points
out that the human is the fool , and the ape must teach
the poorly educated human who thinks themselves
better...

What most humans are unaware of is in Gematria ,
or Letter = Number \ Word Value System , the word :

Ape = 186

Back Of Brain = 186

So , as the Ape , in the book , had to educate the
human relying on the frontal brain , and missing
the point , it shows the subconscious as more
educated and aware than the conscious at it's
root ;

In other words , the Pons , Cerebellum , and Medulla
Oblongata , hold much more information and the
basic potential for great poetry , than the frontal brain
or so called high level critical thinking...

It is the critical mind which disallows pure creation ,
and causes hesitation and continual rewrites , before
revealing and posting one's words as a true free form
stream of consciousness in it's pure state...

I recommend this book to the poetic minds who \ which
can embrace it's message , and profit from it...

Long live the wild ones , for they embody pure poetry ,
not enslaved by imposed rules of so called "proper"
construction of word usage...enough said for "now"...

Ahavati
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clewluss said:I have come to learn that another person's critique can be devastating.

I once criticized a member for some spelling /Grammer errors thatshe kept on making.
It affected her so much she quit dup.

I thought she overreacted, but now realize how devastating criticism can be, as I have been on the receiving end of it recently.

Instead of calling out bad Grammer publicly, I should have done so, by a polite PM.


I would say it depends on how you present the critique; however, that's not necessarily true.   Many writers request 'honest critique' thinking they've posted a masterpiece that needs no adjusting, while others earnestly desire to improve their writing skills by welcoming comprehensive analysis.

The former will be very sensitive to any criticism of their work, because they were predisposed to believe it needed no improvements.  It doesn't matter how gentle you are, they're more than likely going to get their feelings hurt from the honesty of your reply.  It's not what you say; it's the shattering of their belief for whatever reason, i.e. - their family and/or friends have told them their poems are wonderful!

Each poster has a choice here:

Door No 1: friendly feedback
Door No 2: honest critique
Door No 3; no comments  

Conversely, each reader also has a choice which subsequently complies with the poster's choice; thus, I choose to be honest. That honesty will do one of two things: make or break a writer; however, the breaking will not be something I said, nor how I said it because I am a gentle critiquer—it will be from their own predisposed beliefs about themselves.  

How dare I think differently.

JohnnyBlaze
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Ahavati said:

I would say it depends on how you present the critique; however, that's not necessarily true.   Many writers request 'honest critique' thinking they've posted a masterpiece that needs no adjusting, while others earnestly desire to improve their writing skills by welcoming comprehensive analysis.

The former will be very sensitive to any criticism of their work, because they were predisposed to believe it needed no improvements.  It doesn't matter how gentle you are, they're more than likely going to get their feelings hurt from the honesty of your reply.  It's not what you say; it's the shattering of their belief for whatever reason, i.e. - their family and/or friends have told them their poems are wonderful!

Each poster has a choice here:

Door No 1: friendly feedback
Door No 2: honest critique
Door No 3; no one can comment on my work

Conversely, each reader also has a choice which only complies with the poster's choice; thus, I choose to be honest. That honesty will do one of two things: make or break a writer; however, the breaking will not be something I said, nor how I said it because I am a gentle critiquer—it will be from their own predisposed beliefs about themselves.  

How dare I think differently.


At least you aren't alone in your thinking.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for your love of poetry and passion for helpful honest critique.

Why, it was just three years ago this very week ..... 📝❤📅


Blackwolf
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And some improve their writing skills by continuing to write
without the need for "comprehensive analysis"  , as that in
itself is merely a personal view , or singular or group idea
of "what is right"...

That does not in any sense make them lesser , it can show ,
however , their ability to grow on their own , without the
input from those espousing their own views as the "correct
ones" , however they might have arrived at those assumptions...

I have no problem with someone thinking differently , as I am
more than confident in my expressions , beliefs , and poetry ,
and my ability to convey my words...

Some , however , can benefit by others input , however , they
may have encountered much criticism in their earlier life ,
leaving them raw , and unable to digest anything but the
gentlest nurturing way , of assisting them in what they are
seeking , if that is the case...

So it is not just whether someone has no need for feedback ,
or praise , or criticism , it is truly in the delivery of such , taking
into account the mental and emotional composition of those
one does not even know , especially online , where one cannot
see , nor observe , nor perceive, the solidity , or fragility , of the
one who chose to ask for assistance...

This is the danger of online critique , as well online psycho -
analytic diagnosis...not being able to see the eyes , body
movements , or positions , or all the telltale methods by
which one receives the input necessary to convey information
properly to each person , even when they ask for it...

And very few so called critiquers , possess the ability , even
when such is asked for , to succeed in conveying feedback
without their own opinions and ego obscuring their supposed
intent...'nuff said for now

Ahavati
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JohnnyBlaze said:

At least you aren't alone in your thinking.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for your love of poetry and passion for helpful honest critique.

Why, it was just three years ago this very week ..... 📝❤📅




poet Anonymous

Mister_Write said:I consider a "critique" to be valid IF it comes from someone who has been published more than I, is educated better than I, has sold more books than I, was mentored better than I, has been purchased by more on-line and print publishers than I and has received more/better professional reviews than I.  
Anyone who doesn't meet those criteria (and who does not preface their critique with their credentials) is incapable of anything more than a "comment"...and anyone can make a comment.
 

You asked for honest critique in one of your poems that I read - which was a good poem - what kind of critique are you looking for and by whom being most here that I know of don't meet your criteria?

David_Macleod
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https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/groups/cafe-critique/discussion/


CAFE CRITIQUE ETHOS

WELCOME INN YOUR TABLE IS READY FOR YOU. I AM SURE WE WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO TEMPT YOU FROM THE MENU OR MAYBE JUST A COFFEE. I AM SURE YOU WILL FIND THE AMBIENCE AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS PLEASANT AND HELPFUL SO HAVE A SEAT AND READ THIS TO FIND OUT WHAT THIS CAFE IS ALL ABOUT.

1.   RANDOM ACTS OF KINDNESS IS WHAT OUR STAFF AND CUSTOMERS DO DAILY.

2.   THERE IS A NEED IN HERE UNDERSTANDING AND COMPASSION.

3.   ONLY RESPECTFUL EMPATHETIC CRITIQUES AND COMMENTS MUST BE GIVEN.

4.   WE MUST RESPECT THE WRITERS WISHES TO OWN THEIR OWN VOICE AND WORDS.

5.   WRITERS CAN TAKE ON SUGGESTIONS AFTER CONSIDERATION OR NOT.

6.   WE WILL DISPENSE WITH THE NEED FOR ARGUMENTS AND FLAMING.

7.   WE ARE ALL EQUAL HERE NOBODY GETS LESSER OR SPECIAL TREATMENT.
8.   WE ALL HAVE EQUAL VALUE AS POETS AND WRITERS.

9.   WE ALL HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS TO MAKE COMMENTS AND CRITIQUES.

10.   WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM AND BE INSPIRED BY ANYONE.

IT IS THROUGH THIS POSITIVE ETHOS OF RESPECT AND ENCOURAGEMENT THAT WE CAN ALL MAKE POSITIVE CHANGES, IMPROVEMENTS AND LEARN FROM EACH OTHER TO MAKE LASTING CHANGES. THIS CAFÉ WILL BE RUN STRICTLY BY THESE STATED PRINCIPLES. IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO PLAY BY THE RULES THEN DON'T LET THE DOOR SLAM ON YOUR ASS ON THE WAY OUT.

PLEASE SUBMIT IN THE ONLY SECTION THAT WE TAKE SUBMISSIONS ON. AT THE TOP OF THE GROUP PAGE.
MAYBE YOU COULD VISIT THE MENU PAGE AND TELL US WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE.

Blackwolf
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This is what I can state is a positive expression of what some might call critique ,
yet I would term a support system for the poetic psyche and emotional body...

Bravo , David !

David_Macleod
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I am not a great fan of the word critique and its use, abuse and misuse. It is not what you say - its the way that you say it

poet Anonymous

There are "comments" and there are "critiques"... they are very different.  1 factor I left out I left out when describing a "critique" is objectivity.  
Oh...BTW, pardon me for having a opinion ...I thought that opinions were allowed.

JohnnyBlaze
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Mister_Write said:There are "comments" and there are "critiques"... they are very different.  1 factor I left out I left out when describing a "critique" is objectivity.  
Oh...BTW, pardon me for having a opinion ...I thought that opinions were allowed.


You might want to quote who you are addressing so as to cut down on confusion.

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