Do Not NOMINATE
Anonymous
Is there room for maybe perhaps
adding a ``Do Not Nominate``
Feature or Icon you can tag to a poem
before/after it`s been published?
I express concern
as I`ve nominated a couple of poems
but then been asked
to please remove.
I`m just trying to respect
the wishes of those Poets
who do not care/want to have
their poems nominated,
and at the same time,
avoid messages to delete.
Does anyone else think
that this would be beneficial?
Thank you for hearing me out
. ~Devlin/DevlinDLC
Anonymous
What would also be beneficial is not receiving a confusing PM from somebody entirely innocently nominating my poem being told to remove my poem by a third party, without the aforementioned third party asking me first. Just assuming I wanted it removed, which I didn't, and didn't express any desire for that particular piece to be removed in the spirit of fkn joining in. That's just bad form.
But to answer your questions Dev, yes it would be beneficial. At least everyone would be able to make their own bloody decisions.
But to answer your questions Dev, yes it would be beneficial. At least everyone would be able to make their own bloody decisions.
Miss_Sub said:What would also be beneficial is not receiving a confusing PM from somebody entirely innocently nominating my poem being told to remove my poem by a third party, without the aforementioned third party asking me first. Just assuming I wanted it removed, which I didn't, and didn't express any desire for that particular piece to be removed in the spirit of fkn joining in. That's just bad form.
But to answer your questions Dev, yes it would be beneficial. At least everyone would be able to make their own bloody decisions.
Missy, when I nominated one of your poems months ago you messaged me ( I still have the message ) and specifically told me you didn't want your poems featured for both personal reasons and because you were paying ( as a supporter ) for them to be cloaked from the public. That being posted in public forums ( e.g. - Comps and Hall of Fame ) would mean you were paying for nothing.
As I told Devlin, I keep a list of those who expressed their desire to not be featured, including you. Whenever someone nominates those poets I try to send a message requesting they replace them to honor the poet's wishes ( unless the poet has already notified the nominator themselves, as you have ).
If I remember correctly, someone nominated one of yours last month ( or the Month before ) too ( maybe Walker ) and he deleted it saying it was at your request.
I didn't think I needed to further contact you being you'd already notified me.
As I told Devlin, if you've changed your mind put it back. I'm merely trying to honor the requests I've received.
But to answer your questions Dev, yes it would be beneficial. At least everyone would be able to make their own bloody decisions.
Missy, when I nominated one of your poems months ago you messaged me ( I still have the message ) and specifically told me you didn't want your poems featured for both personal reasons and because you were paying ( as a supporter ) for them to be cloaked from the public. That being posted in public forums ( e.g. - Comps and Hall of Fame ) would mean you were paying for nothing.
As I told Devlin, I keep a list of those who expressed their desire to not be featured, including you. Whenever someone nominates those poets I try to send a message requesting they replace them to honor the poet's wishes ( unless the poet has already notified the nominator themselves, as you have ).
If I remember correctly, someone nominated one of yours last month ( or the Month before ) too ( maybe Walker ) and he deleted it saying it was at your request.
I didn't think I needed to further contact you being you'd already notified me.
As I told Devlin, if you've changed your mind put it back. I'm merely trying to honor the requests I've received.
I've hidden the post with Missy's poem in it, in the poem nomination comp. For now , I'd recommend putting a disclaimer not to nominate on any poems that you/anyone does not want to be nominated, until we figure out the solution. I'm going to message Webmiss to see if a don't nominate button can be added--will update as soon as I hear back.
Anonymous
Lavender that's the point. There was nothing on my poem expressing I wanted it hidden. I didn't message anybody saying I wanted it hidden. I didn't tell the nominator I wanted it hidden.
Yes. I asked Walker to remove my poem. At my request. I requested 2 poems be removed that were for personal reasons. At the time I said I didn't want my poem featured because it was too personal. Not all my poems, ever. That's my perrogative - that does not mean you should just assume what I do and do not want to be posted. Especially when all it took is a message to ask. Especially when I'm trying to build a few bridges and join in.
Point made. Leave my poem. Move on.
Yes. I asked Walker to remove my poem. At my request. I requested 2 poems be removed that were for personal reasons. At the time I said I didn't want my poem featured because it was too personal. Not all my poems, ever. That's my perrogative - that does not mean you should just assume what I do and do not want to be posted. Especially when all it took is a message to ask. Especially when I'm trying to build a few bridges and join in.
Point made. Leave my poem. Move on.
Missy--I unhid the post--I thought this was in reference to the current comp underway and was not aware of any prior issues until now.
That said , a solution is presently being worked on for future instances like this, and we'll get an update in here as soon as we have more info on that.
That said , a solution is presently being worked on for future instances like this, and we'll get an update in here as soon as we have more info on that.
Thanks for the thoughts raised on this thread. I'm thinking on a solution. I try to avoid adding more buttons and complexity to the site wherever possible. I'm striving to make DU Poetry as user friendly as possible.
It's a tricky balance to strike, as some members want a high level control over how each submission is used (which may change over time for each submission) and others just want a straightforward way to share everything.
Possible solutions I'm considering:
- A member setting to allow people to opt out of being featured, or having poems featured, on all official DU social media channels. This would cover any posts made while the setting is active. It would afford the social media team a simple way to check before posting.
- A way to use the current "feature poem" setting to work with the nomination process.
The problem is, in actual terms (from the website system point of view) a nomination is simply a link to a poem in a forum post. It's difficult to stop people linking to specific content, since they can currently link to any content across the internet. Therefore, banning people from linking to certain internal content is complicated both technically, and in terms of how you explain why you are doing it to the poster. It would need to be something that works in a uniform way across all forum posts, as the system doesn't know what a "poem of the month" thread is or isn't, and I don't want to keep adding special cases to the underlying code. There's also the issue of when people change the setting for a specific poem, and how that affects any existing posts. Before making any technical changes, I have to consider all the edges cases to ensure they are covered. A seemingly small change, can turn into a big nightmare very quickly. I'm keen to find a simple solution, that isn't going to take weeks of programming time, and potentially confuse members.
Clearly it would be easier if we could find a solution using what we already have. Perhaps changing slightly how "poem of the month" works e.g. I nominate a poem for "poem of the month" by posting to the thread saying "I nominate this poem by this member" and then I inform the member I have nominated (or this could be done by the host of "poem of the month"). It's then up to them to post their poem to that thread if they accept the nomination.
Any thoughts or ideas?
It's a tricky balance to strike, as some members want a high level control over how each submission is used (which may change over time for each submission) and others just want a straightforward way to share everything.
Possible solutions I'm considering:
- A member setting to allow people to opt out of being featured, or having poems featured, on all official DU social media channels. This would cover any posts made while the setting is active. It would afford the social media team a simple way to check before posting.
- A way to use the current "feature poem" setting to work with the nomination process.
The problem is, in actual terms (from the website system point of view) a nomination is simply a link to a poem in a forum post. It's difficult to stop people linking to specific content, since they can currently link to any content across the internet. Therefore, banning people from linking to certain internal content is complicated both technically, and in terms of how you explain why you are doing it to the poster. It would need to be something that works in a uniform way across all forum posts, as the system doesn't know what a "poem of the month" thread is or isn't, and I don't want to keep adding special cases to the underlying code. There's also the issue of when people change the setting for a specific poem, and how that affects any existing posts. Before making any technical changes, I have to consider all the edges cases to ensure they are covered. A seemingly small change, can turn into a big nightmare very quickly. I'm keen to find a simple solution, that isn't going to take weeks of programming time, and potentially confuse members.
Clearly it would be easier if we could find a solution using what we already have. Perhaps changing slightly how "poem of the month" works e.g. I nominate a poem for "poem of the month" by posting to the thread saying "I nominate this poem by this member" and then I inform the member I have nominated (or this could be done by the host of "poem of the month"). It's then up to them to post their poem to that thread if they accept the nomination.
Any thoughts or ideas?
Anonymous
My 2cents tossing in the bowl of storming ideas:
Just as we have a required action to choose, Honest, friendly or no feedback/critique, perhaps we can have a feature alongside to it where we can indicate if a poem is open for nomination or not. Although, that still will not completely resolve a poem from being nominated since the link will still be available to post in any competition if no one looks for 'Not open for nomination' label.
But I'm not quite sure how you can simplify the problem of how some poets wouldn't mind being featured/poems nominated and still opt out of external sites such as FB, that in itself perhaps need to be taken care of by the staff messaging to the poet if external exposure is not something they wish for.
In the meantime, people who are actively inerested in this issue they can add something to the title of the poems published (open for Nomination/ not open for Nomination) til things are resolved. I say this only because most do not look for specifics like footnotes beneath a poem or on poet's personal page for details.
Again, just few thoughts that crossed my mind and I thought i'd toss it in.
Just as we have a required action to choose, Honest, friendly or no feedback/critique, perhaps we can have a feature alongside to it where we can indicate if a poem is open for nomination or not. Although, that still will not completely resolve a poem from being nominated since the link will still be available to post in any competition if no one looks for 'Not open for nomination' label.
But I'm not quite sure how you can simplify the problem of how some poets wouldn't mind being featured/poems nominated and still opt out of external sites such as FB, that in itself perhaps need to be taken care of by the staff messaging to the poet if external exposure is not something they wish for.
In the meantime, people who are actively inerested in this issue they can add something to the title of the poems published (open for Nomination/ not open for Nomination) til things are resolved. I say this only because most do not look for specifics like footnotes beneath a poem or on poet's personal page for details.
Again, just few thoughts that crossed my mind and I thought i'd toss it in.
admin said:Thanks for the thoughts raised on this thread. I'm thinking on a solution. I try to avoid adding more buttons and complexity to the site wherever possible. I'm striving to make DU Poetry as user friendly as possible.
It's a tricky balance to strike, as some members want a high level control over how each submission is used (which may change over time for each submission) and others just want a straightforward way to share everything.
Possible solutions I'm considering:
- A member setting to allow people to opt out of being featured, or having poems featured, on all official DU social media channels. This would cover any posts made while the setting is active. It would afford the social media team a simple way to check before posting.
- A way to use the current "feature poem" setting to work with the nomination process.
The problem is, in actual terms (from the website system point of view) a nomination is simply a link to a poem in a forum post. It's difficult to stop people linking to specific content, since they can currently link to any content across the internet. Therefore, banning people from linking to certain internal content is complicated both technically, and in terms of how you explain why you are doing it to the poster. It would need to be something that works in a uniform way across all forum posts, as the system doesn't know what a "poem of the month" thread is or isn't, and I don't want to keep adding special cases to the underlying code. There's also the issue of when people change the setting for a specific poem, and how that affects any existing posts. Before making any technical changes, I have to consider all the edges cases to ensure they are covered. A seemingly small change, can turn into a big nightmare very quickly. I'm keen to find a simple solution, that isn't going to take weeks of programming time, and potentially confuse members.
Clearly it would be easier if we could find a solution using what we already have. Perhaps changing slightly how "poem of the month" works e.g. I nominate a poem for "poem of the month" by posting to the thread saying "I nominate this poem by this member" and then I inform the member I have nominated (or this could be done by the host of "poem of the month"). It's then up to them to post their poem to that thread if they accept the nomination.
Any thoughts or ideas?
or Why not just ask first the author if it is ok to them before actually nominating? Acceptance first before actually posting the nomination... that way, we can avoid embarrassment. it is actually a bit of painful for the one who put up the nomination, only to be turned down later after its already been publicly known.
It's a tricky balance to strike, as some members want a high level control over how each submission is used (which may change over time for each submission) and others just want a straightforward way to share everything.
Possible solutions I'm considering:
- A member setting to allow people to opt out of being featured, or having poems featured, on all official DU social media channels. This would cover any posts made while the setting is active. It would afford the social media team a simple way to check before posting.
- A way to use the current "feature poem" setting to work with the nomination process.
The problem is, in actual terms (from the website system point of view) a nomination is simply a link to a poem in a forum post. It's difficult to stop people linking to specific content, since they can currently link to any content across the internet. Therefore, banning people from linking to certain internal content is complicated both technically, and in terms of how you explain why you are doing it to the poster. It would need to be something that works in a uniform way across all forum posts, as the system doesn't know what a "poem of the month" thread is or isn't, and I don't want to keep adding special cases to the underlying code. There's also the issue of when people change the setting for a specific poem, and how that affects any existing posts. Before making any technical changes, I have to consider all the edges cases to ensure they are covered. A seemingly small change, can turn into a big nightmare very quickly. I'm keen to find a simple solution, that isn't going to take weeks of programming time, and potentially confuse members.
Clearly it would be easier if we could find a solution using what we already have. Perhaps changing slightly how "poem of the month" works e.g. I nominate a poem for "poem of the month" by posting to the thread saying "I nominate this poem by this member" and then I inform the member I have nominated (or this could be done by the host of "poem of the month"). It's then up to them to post their poem to that thread if they accept the nomination.
Any thoughts or ideas?
or Why not just ask first the author if it is ok to them before actually nominating? Acceptance first before actually posting the nomination... that way, we can avoid embarrassment. it is actually a bit of painful for the one who put up the nomination, only to be turned down later after its already been publicly known.
OxyMoronicMe said:
or Why not just ask first the author if it is ok to them before actually nominating? Acceptance first before actually posting the nomination... that way, we can avoid embarrassment. it is actually a bit of painful for the one who put up the nomination, only to be turned down later after its already been publicly known.
Indeed, the issue there might be, that if the onus is on the person nominating to ask first, then as a website, we can't confirm if that took place or not.
The only way to really know if someone agrees, is if they post their own poem them self.
or Why not just ask first the author if it is ok to them before actually nominating? Acceptance first before actually posting the nomination... that way, we can avoid embarrassment. it is actually a bit of painful for the one who put up the nomination, only to be turned down later after its already been publicly known.
Indeed, the issue there might be, that if the onus is on the person nominating to ask first, then as a website, we can't confirm if that took place or not.
The only way to really know if someone agrees, is if they post their own poem them self.
admin said:
Indeed, the issue there might be, that if the onus is on the person nominating to ask first, then as a website, we can't confirm if that took place or not.
The only way to really know if someone agrees, is if they post their own poem them self.
Which kind of kills the spirit of peer support and encouragement through nominations, which is the very premise of the competition.
It's a pickle - no doubt.
Currently Poem-Worm leaves these notifications on all poems that are nominated, sans those who've nominated their own poem and those who've notified us they don't want to be nominated. In the latter cases we contact the nominator and request a replacement to honor the poet's request ( if the poet hasn't done it first themselves ):
Congratulations! This poem has been nominated for Deep Underground Poetry's Featured Poem of the Month Competition for August, '17. You may view the nomination at the link below, and will be notified if selected.
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/competitions/read/9754/
Best of Luck and thank you for being a member of the Deep Side! Poet
Perhaps the comp host should just post it on every nomination with an opt-out clause by messaging the comp host? This way the responsibility and control is strictly on the poet themselves vs the comp host.
Indeed, the issue there might be, that if the onus is on the person nominating to ask first, then as a website, we can't confirm if that took place or not.
The only way to really know if someone agrees, is if they post their own poem them self.
Which kind of kills the spirit of peer support and encouragement through nominations, which is the very premise of the competition.
It's a pickle - no doubt.
Currently Poem-Worm leaves these notifications on all poems that are nominated, sans those who've nominated their own poem and those who've notified us they don't want to be nominated. In the latter cases we contact the nominator and request a replacement to honor the poet's request ( if the poet hasn't done it first themselves ):
Congratulations! This poem has been nominated for Deep Underground Poetry's Featured Poem of the Month Competition for August, '17. You may view the nomination at the link below, and will be notified if selected.
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/competitions/read/9754/
Best of Luck and thank you for being a member of the Deep Side! Poet
Perhaps the comp host should just post it on every nomination with an opt-out clause by messaging the comp host? This way the responsibility and control is strictly on the poet themselves vs the comp host.
Sometimes a poem is too personal so it is kept private in a diary.
Sometimes it is ok to post, but not to give it too much attention such as a nomination.
i have many poems like this but in my case,
a 'do not nominate' button would also , i believe, draw extra undesired attention, as the reader might ask herself "what might be hidden in this poem that the author felt it was too private to make overly public?"
So i feel if i selected such button when it becomes available, it would for me actually be worse than having my poem nominated.
Thankfully i only feel this need for privacy at the start and the end of my work week which is monday and friday but due to some scheduling changes due to coworkers on vacation it may be sundays and thursdays or tuesdays and saturdays- Ahavati i will pm you my work schedule so you can monitor any inadvertant posting by offending members
thanks in advance
rabbit
Sometimes it is ok to post, but not to give it too much attention such as a nomination.
i have many poems like this but in my case,
a 'do not nominate' button would also , i believe, draw extra undesired attention, as the reader might ask herself "what might be hidden in this poem that the author felt it was too private to make overly public?"
So i feel if i selected such button when it becomes available, it would for me actually be worse than having my poem nominated.
Thankfully i only feel this need for privacy at the start and the end of my work week which is monday and friday but due to some scheduling changes due to coworkers on vacation it may be sundays and thursdays or tuesdays and saturdays- Ahavati i will pm you my work schedule so you can monitor any inadvertant posting by offending members
thanks in advance
rabbit
rabbitquest said:Sometimes a poem is too personal so it is kept private in a diary.
Sometimes it is ok to post, but not to give it too much attention such as a nomination.
i have many poems like this but in my case,
a 'do not nominate' button would also , i believe, draw extra undesired attention, as the reader might ask herself "what might be hidden in this poem that the author felt it was too private to make overly public?"
So i feel if i selected such button when it becomes available, it would for me actually be worse than having my poem nominated.
Thankfully i only feel this need for privacy at the start and the end of my work week which is monday and friday but due to some scheduling changes due to coworkers on vacation it may be sundays and thursdays or tuesdays and saturdays- Ahavati i will pm you my work schedule so you can monitor any inadvertant posting by offending members
thanks in advance
rabbit
LOL! While I appreciate your consideration, Ahavati will be breaking very soon to focus on . . . oh, I don't know, fuck tons of POETRY!
If I ever make it back to Central America I hope to meet you and the Mrs behind the Bunny!
Sometimes it is ok to post, but not to give it too much attention such as a nomination.
i have many poems like this but in my case,
a 'do not nominate' button would also , i believe, draw extra undesired attention, as the reader might ask herself "what might be hidden in this poem that the author felt it was too private to make overly public?"
So i feel if i selected such button when it becomes available, it would for me actually be worse than having my poem nominated.
Thankfully i only feel this need for privacy at the start and the end of my work week which is monday and friday but due to some scheduling changes due to coworkers on vacation it may be sundays and thursdays or tuesdays and saturdays- Ahavati i will pm you my work schedule so you can monitor any inadvertant posting by offending members
thanks in advance
rabbit
LOL! While I appreciate your consideration, Ahavati will be breaking very soon to focus on . . . oh, I don't know, fuck tons of POETRY!
If I ever make it back to Central America I hope to meet you and the Mrs behind the Bunny!
Anonymous
Honestly I thought [or perhaps ``assumed’’]
that the reason Poets opt for their poem
not to be nominated was to avoid FaceBook
considering how global it is
and how vulnerable one`s poem can be,
particularly to plagiarist
but as they say Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!
Miss, it was just a Suggestion
to make it easy for those
and no way [IMO] would I ever think
that something dubious would be underlying
for a Poet to withdraw their nomination;
I would look to it as a personal preference
or one`s prerogative for whatever the reason.
I did give your response some thought
and I do apologize if it`s caused you some strain.
I was going to propose adding a Pop-up window
after the ``submit poem`` button is depressed
with an option to have the poem nominated or not
through a ``yes`` or ``no`` with an icon stamped
for either/or response beside the title
to make other Poets aware whether the poem is open or not
or switching out the DU Supporter`s ``Feature`` button
on the poem`s submission page
for an open to nomination or not for all Members
and substituting that Feature for other Supporter incentives
like 3 poems per 8 hours; Host 3 comps instead of 2, etc.
If nothing else, then Vee`s suggestion is just as good;
the same for OxyMoronicMe;
rabbitquest, your comment to Ahavati
made me smile
. I fully understand that this is your site, Miss,
and whatever you decide or not
is fine by me
. I'm going to also get LobodeSanPedro's thoughts on this, as he will be taking over running "Poem of the Month" - see https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/speakeasy/read/9780/
I would definitely rather adapt the competition, rather than adapt the site to fit this specific competition.
I don't think it will be as simple as asking people at the point of submission, because from a technical point of view I also need to build:
- a way for people to change their mind and edit later
- a way to record when a preference was set to on/off to determine if a poem was allowed at a particular time when it was nominated and/or voted on
- a way to communicate this nomination preference somewhere, without confusing anyone (i.e, more information to cram into a poem's page)
- a way to communicate what this option means at the point of asking, again without confusing anyone
- a way to stop someone linking to the poem i.e. nominating it in a specific forum thread
From experience of making changes like this in the past, things are never as straight forward as they initially seem. Something that can appear like a quick code change, can take weeks to implement properly. If I build an incomplete code solution then I have to invest a lot of time later, manually changing settings when people change their mind, and explaining over and over to different people, what something means.
I'm also working really hard to get DU Groups launched at the moment
I would definitely rather adapt the competition, rather than adapt the site to fit this specific competition.
I don't think it will be as simple as asking people at the point of submission, because from a technical point of view I also need to build:
- a way for people to change their mind and edit later
- a way to record when a preference was set to on/off to determine if a poem was allowed at a particular time when it was nominated and/or voted on
- a way to communicate this nomination preference somewhere, without confusing anyone (i.e, more information to cram into a poem's page)
- a way to communicate what this option means at the point of asking, again without confusing anyone
- a way to stop someone linking to the poem i.e. nominating it in a specific forum thread
From experience of making changes like this in the past, things are never as straight forward as they initially seem. Something that can appear like a quick code change, can take weeks to implement properly. If I build an incomplete code solution then I have to invest a lot of time later, manually changing settings when people change their mind, and explaining over and over to different people, what something means.
I'm also working really hard to get DU Groups launched at the moment
