Groups...WTF?
"Direct personal references such as these are an example of why DU cannot have a debate thread."
You're right, and you were neck deep in it as much as anyone else.
I've always been secondary to the debate group. whatever you think you know you clearly don't
I've said what I had to say. you can continue with your veiled and snipping pops personally I find it cowardly
You're right, and you were neck deep in it as much as anyone else.
I've always been secondary to the debate group. whatever you think you know you clearly don't
I've said what I had to say. you can continue with your veiled and snipping pops personally I find it cowardly
lepperochan said:"Direct personal references such as these are an example of why DU cannot have a debate thread."
You're right, and you were neck deep in it as much as anyone else.
I've always been secondary to the debate group. whatever you think you know you clearly don't
I only remember seeing you and Viddax as moderators/directors whatever in the initial formation of the debate group.
I've said what I had to say. you can continue with your veiled and snipping pops personally I find it cowardly
YOU addressed me with false accusations of taking shots at people or patting myself on the back. Remember?! I merely responded from my own perspective. I have no intention of continuing this.
I've asked you for years to provide ONE example of how I have, over the course of my 8-year membership, personally attacked anyone. The ONLY example you could provide was of me telling someone to stop "acting" like a dick or ass or whatever. That is not personally attacking anyone. On the contrary, it's referencing their actions.
And in debate, it's the topic or behavior, not the person, that should be referenced.
And aren't you the source of "Don't act like a dick"?!
Then don't.
Is that courageous and direct enough for you?
You're right, and you were neck deep in it as much as anyone else.
I've always been secondary to the debate group. whatever you think you know you clearly don't
I only remember seeing you and Viddax as moderators/directors whatever in the initial formation of the debate group.
I've said what I had to say. you can continue with your veiled and snipping pops personally I find it cowardly
YOU addressed me with false accusations of taking shots at people or patting myself on the back. Remember?! I merely responded from my own perspective. I have no intention of continuing this.
I've asked you for years to provide ONE example of how I have, over the course of my 8-year membership, personally attacked anyone. The ONLY example you could provide was of me telling someone to stop "acting" like a dick or ass or whatever. That is not personally attacking anyone. On the contrary, it's referencing their actions.
And in debate, it's the topic or behavior, not the person, that should be referenced.
And aren't you the source of "Don't act like a dick"?!
Then don't.
Is that courageous and direct enough for you?
"No one wants to debate in a house whose owner could kick them out due to personal biased. Debates should take place on neutral ground where everyone is free to express their opinion."
just so we're on the same page. I'm a director, always have been. I've booted nobody from the group.
There was no need for you to cast a slur on the group or have a pop at me.
who are you talking about ? .praps I can get to the bottom of it
just so we're on the same page. I'm a director, always have been. I've booted nobody from the group.
There was no need for you to cast a slur on the group or have a pop at me.
who are you talking about ? .praps I can get to the bottom of it
Well, firstly, I was very clear in the above statement about who I was referring to, and even provided a true example of what I experienced personally.
Viddax may now, but in the beginning you did too. And you know you had a habit of booting people not because of something they did in a group, but your personal biases. I do know that JB and I joined some group that you ran in good faith when groups were first created, and hadn't said one single word before receiving a message and a ban from the group by you.
Secondly, here is the actual thread about closing the debate forum. Unfortunately for the members of DU who are not moderators, my posts ( which attacked no one personally ) were hidden by a moderator. I publicly expressed my concerns about the debate forum closing down to webmiss based on the above experience.
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/discuss/read/10633/#438968
I accepted her decision as final and gave the group a shot in good faith because Viddax. But the energy is stifling to me. I need to be able to breathe and freely express myself with sources, especially since I attack no one personally.
The truth is not a "pop" at you or the group. The truth is an experience that happened to me, and I was very clear about it. Twice.
Viddax may now, but in the beginning you did too. And you know you had a habit of booting people not because of something they did in a group, but your personal biases. I do know that JB and I joined some group that you ran in good faith when groups were first created, and hadn't said one single word before receiving a message and a ban from the group by you.
Secondly, here is the actual thread about closing the debate forum. Unfortunately for the members of DU who are not moderators, my posts ( which attacked no one personally ) were hidden by a moderator. I publicly expressed my concerns about the debate forum closing down to webmiss based on the above experience.
https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/discuss/read/10633/#438968
I accepted her decision as final and gave the group a shot in good faith because Viddax. But the energy is stifling to me. I need to be able to breathe and freely express myself with sources, especially since I attack no one personally.
The truth is not a "pop" at you or the group. The truth is an experience that happened to me, and I was very clear about it. Twice.
Lady, you got no message from me . you're lying. and it wasn't me who hid your posts on that thread. So you're mistaken there too.maybe I can check for you ? maybe you won't like the answer either way you've wronged me and Viddax's group out of nowhere and for nothing
not being able to breath n such is beyond the parameters. if anything the group is a meadow of fresh air. "found the energy stifling" fair enough.
not being able to breath n such is beyond the parameters. if anything the group is a meadow of fresh air. "found the energy stifling" fair enough.
lepperochan said:Lady, you got no message from me . you're lying. and it wasn't me who hid your posts on that thread. So you're mistaken there too.maybe I can check for you ? maybe you won't like the answer either way you've wronged me and Viddax's group out of nowhere and for nothing
not being able to breath n such is beyond the parameters. if anything the group is a meadow of fresh air. "found the energy stifling" fair enough.
I really wish, and I truly mean this, that you would change your filter, Craic. Firstly, I never said YOU hid the posts in the original thread. I said they were hidden by a moderator ( whose name I did not want to mention out of respect for the deceased ). You made it about you.
Secondly, it wasn't the debate group that you banned me and JB from. It was some other group that doesn't even exist now. It was the igloo or something. I can't remember. But the message was basically a "Hahahahaah get the fuck out" message - and poof, we were banned and had not said one single word in that group to be banned for.
That is the very reason I could never be comfortable in the debate group with you as a director. I was publicly honest about that to Webmiss. Unfortunately, those comments were hidden.
I have not wronged the debate group by expressing my experiences or opinions any more than anyone else in this thread who has criticized or suggested changes to groups has. This exchange is a PERFECT example of what I am referring to in regard to biasedness and what I consider borderline harassment.
not being able to breath n such is beyond the parameters. if anything the group is a meadow of fresh air. "found the energy stifling" fair enough.
I really wish, and I truly mean this, that you would change your filter, Craic. Firstly, I never said YOU hid the posts in the original thread. I said they were hidden by a moderator ( whose name I did not want to mention out of respect for the deceased ). You made it about you.
Secondly, it wasn't the debate group that you banned me and JB from. It was some other group that doesn't even exist now. It was the igloo or something. I can't remember. But the message was basically a "Hahahahaah get the fuck out" message - and poof, we were banned and had not said one single word in that group to be banned for.
That is the very reason I could never be comfortable in the debate group with you as a director. I was publicly honest about that to Webmiss. Unfortunately, those comments were hidden.
I have not wronged the debate group by expressing my experiences or opinions any more than anyone else in this thread who has criticized or suggested changes to groups has. This exchange is a PERFECT example of what I am referring to in regard to biasedness and what I consider borderline harassment.
Before we get off track and shore up our defenses against each other again, let's all consider the beautiful commonality that we share... a passion for this website. Let's make the website more welcoming to literary ARTISTS of all proclivities. A strong focus on polarization and politics doesn't foster that. Shit, if what I'm suggesting works for universities and MMORPGS, why wouldn't it work for DUP?
Why can't the home page equally and overtly display (with brief introductions) ~"Clan Ahavati", ~"Clan Devilish", ~"Clan Sumultima", ~"Clan MTP", ~"Clan XYZ" etc.?
Seriously, if when I joined this site, I had encountered what I mostly encounter now, I would have ditched this place after an hour. The diversity back then was awesome! It was cool as fuck to read something literarily complex AF, then on the next post see heart-melting imagery, then read x-rated horror, then experimental shit that can't even really be categorized like "HAL". This place was a thriving literary jungle!
Wouldn't we all like to have that and then some again???
Or are we just a bland ghost of a vapid shell of chip shots now?
Why can't the home page equally and overtly display (with brief introductions) ~"Clan Ahavati", ~"Clan Devilish", ~"Clan Sumultima", ~"Clan MTP", ~"Clan XYZ" etc.?
Seriously, if when I joined this site, I had encountered what I mostly encounter now, I would have ditched this place after an hour. The diversity back then was awesome! It was cool as fuck to read something literarily complex AF, then on the next post see heart-melting imagery, then read x-rated horror, then experimental shit that can't even really be categorized like "HAL". This place was a thriving literary jungle!
Wouldn't we all like to have that and then some again???
Or are we just a bland ghost of a vapid shell of chip shots now?
☝️ Interesting @Arortiz.
Hypothetically though, what would happen if two clans fell out? I guess it wouldn’t just be two people that fell out… they’d drag the whole clan into it.
I can totally see what you mean about giving people their own space. However I’m also very conscious that any disdain would automatically drag in the whole of somebody’s group if you split them up into camps like that. There’s the potential for war.
Hypothetically though, what would happen if two clans fell out? I guess it wouldn’t just be two people that fell out… they’d drag the whole clan into it.
I can totally see what you mean about giving people their own space. However I’m also very conscious that any disdain would automatically drag in the whole of somebody’s group if you split them up into camps like that. There’s the potential for war.
Ahavati said:
I really wish, and I truly mean this, that you would change your filter, Craic. Firstly, I never said YOU hid the posts in the original thread. I said they were hidden by a moderator ( whose name I did not want to mention out of respect for the deceased ). You made it about you.
Secondly, it wasn't the debate group that you banned me and JB from. It was some other group that doesn't even exist now. It was the igloo or something. I can't remember. But the message was basically a "Hahahahaah get the fuck out" message - and poof, we were banned and had not said one single word in that group to be banned for.
That is the very reason I could never be comfortable in the debate group with you as a director. I was publicly honest about that to Webmiss. Unfortunately, those comments were hidden.
I have not wronged the debate group by expressing my experiences or opinions any more than anyone else in this thread who has criticized or suggested changes to groups has. This exchange is a PERFECT example of what I am referring to in regard to biasedness and what I consider borderline harassment.
so, where is the message ? there is none because none were sent.
The igloo purged ALL of its members. It is a totally different entity than Ryhme and Reason
The history of Rhyme and Reason is within itself on the pages. there has been little call to reprimand anyone. of all the groups it is the most populous and liberal
Rhyme and Reason was handed to its members from the start because we both felt the platform was taken from the people
not wanting to debate in a place where I am director is biased. not wanting to join cos we don't always get on is life
If your posts were hidden by a moderator out of spite (or whatever) they would have been restored by the rest of the team or by the webmiss. so there must have been some merit in their hiding.
again, there was no reason for you to slur Viddax's group. it was uncalled for. perhaps you've edited to reflect that. perhaps not
I have no biased for or against anyone on this site. there is no room for it in the job I do here. I'm nine or ten years doing it and I do it well. or else I wouldn't be doing it
......, ..... ...... ...... ...... .....
The potential and platform is there for any member to start and run their own group.
A member just needs to make a pitch to the webmiss. I doubt it would be enough to pull some members together and call the group
"Someone's Clan"
I think there would need to be a core interest shared . for instance photography or music or a genre of poetry / writing / art type thing.
but by all means if you or someone else has a pitch for a group, do it through the MOD question thing
I really wish, and I truly mean this, that you would change your filter, Craic. Firstly, I never said YOU hid the posts in the original thread. I said they were hidden by a moderator ( whose name I did not want to mention out of respect for the deceased ). You made it about you.
Secondly, it wasn't the debate group that you banned me and JB from. It was some other group that doesn't even exist now. It was the igloo or something. I can't remember. But the message was basically a "Hahahahaah get the fuck out" message - and poof, we were banned and had not said one single word in that group to be banned for.
That is the very reason I could never be comfortable in the debate group with you as a director. I was publicly honest about that to Webmiss. Unfortunately, those comments were hidden.
I have not wronged the debate group by expressing my experiences or opinions any more than anyone else in this thread who has criticized or suggested changes to groups has. This exchange is a PERFECT example of what I am referring to in regard to biasedness and what I consider borderline harassment.
so, where is the message ? there is none because none were sent.
The igloo purged ALL of its members. It is a totally different entity than Ryhme and Reason
The history of Rhyme and Reason is within itself on the pages. there has been little call to reprimand anyone. of all the groups it is the most populous and liberal
Rhyme and Reason was handed to its members from the start because we both felt the platform was taken from the people
not wanting to debate in a place where I am director is biased. not wanting to join cos we don't always get on is life
If your posts were hidden by a moderator out of spite (or whatever) they would have been restored by the rest of the team or by the webmiss. so there must have been some merit in their hiding.
again, there was no reason for you to slur Viddax's group. it was uncalled for. perhaps you've edited to reflect that. perhaps not
I have no biased for or against anyone on this site. there is no room for it in the job I do here. I'm nine or ten years doing it and I do it well. or else I wouldn't be doing it
......, ..... ...... ...... ...... .....
The potential and platform is there for any member to start and run their own group.
A member just needs to make a pitch to the webmiss. I doubt it would be enough to pull some members together and call the group
"Someone's Clan"
I think there would need to be a core interest shared . for instance photography or music or a genre of poetry / writing / art type thing.
but by all means if you or someone else has a pitch for a group, do it through the MOD question thing
Firstly, arortiz73, I have zero interest in heading up a clan. I walk to the beat of my own drum and don't expect anyone to follow.
lepperochan said:
so, where is the message ? there is none because none were sent.
The igloo purged ALL of its members. It is a totally different entity than Ryhme and Reason
Craic, you ousted JB and me a year before you purged the group. I'm unsure if I still have the message. I know JB screenshotted it and asked me if I'd received it too. It's been years, but I will check my emails to see if it's still somewhere ( since you're giving me permission to post it ).
The history of Rhyme and Reason is within itself on the pages. there has been little call to reprimand anyone. of all the groups it is the most populous and liberal
Rhyme and Reason was handed to its members from the start because we both felt the platform was taken from the people
not wanting to debate in a place where I am director is biased. not wanting to join cos we don't always get on is life
Again, I left the group years ago because it was a ghost town and the energy was stifling. I just took a quick peek and it still is. The Majority of posts ( on the front page ) have zero responses. It's the energy. No one wants to debate in someone's house; they want neutral ground. The proof is in the pudding.
If your posts were hidden by a moderator out of spite (or whatever) they would have been restored by the rest of the team or by the webmiss. so there must have been some merit in their hiding.
I have never personally attacked anyone on this site. Not one of my posts in the original thread violated site guidelines, much less warranted a hidden status. The challenge I issued years ago for you to prove just ONCE that I have ever attacked someone personally on this site still stands.
again, there was no reason for you to slur Viddax's group. it was uncalled for. perhaps you've edited to reflect that. perhaps not
I have no biased for or against anyone on this site. there is no room for it in the job I do here. I'm nine or ten years doing it and I do it well. or else I wouldn't be doing it
I haven't, nor have any intention, of editing anything because truth is the absolute defense of defamation. Rhyme and Reason is a ghost town. Viddax is never here. No one wants to debate in someone's house. They want neutral ground. I miss the debate forum. These are observational facts; not slurs.
Have a good day.
lepperochan said:
so, where is the message ? there is none because none were sent.
The igloo purged ALL of its members. It is a totally different entity than Ryhme and Reason
Craic, you ousted JB and me a year before you purged the group. I'm unsure if I still have the message. I know JB screenshotted it and asked me if I'd received it too. It's been years, but I will check my emails to see if it's still somewhere ( since you're giving me permission to post it ).
The history of Rhyme and Reason is within itself on the pages. there has been little call to reprimand anyone. of all the groups it is the most populous and liberal
Rhyme and Reason was handed to its members from the start because we both felt the platform was taken from the people
not wanting to debate in a place where I am director is biased. not wanting to join cos we don't always get on is life
Again, I left the group years ago because it was a ghost town and the energy was stifling. I just took a quick peek and it still is. The Majority of posts ( on the front page ) have zero responses. It's the energy. No one wants to debate in someone's house; they want neutral ground. The proof is in the pudding.
If your posts were hidden by a moderator out of spite (or whatever) they would have been restored by the rest of the team or by the webmiss. so there must have been some merit in their hiding.
I have never personally attacked anyone on this site. Not one of my posts in the original thread violated site guidelines, much less warranted a hidden status. The challenge I issued years ago for you to prove just ONCE that I have ever attacked someone personally on this site still stands.
again, there was no reason for you to slur Viddax's group. it was uncalled for. perhaps you've edited to reflect that. perhaps not
I have no biased for or against anyone on this site. there is no room for it in the job I do here. I'm nine or ten years doing it and I do it well. or else I wouldn't be doing it
I haven't, nor have any intention, of editing anything because truth is the absolute defense of defamation. Rhyme and Reason is a ghost town. Viddax is never here. No one wants to debate in someone's house. They want neutral ground. I miss the debate forum. These are observational facts; not slurs.
Have a good day.
thank you for your clarification.
Ryhme and Reason is a ghost town, I think I said as much earlier. it is and always has been a place for people to share with no in-your-face authority. some people like that kind of thing some people don't.
that said, these forums also still give a platform for debate and general opinion so I think it's a nothing lost nothing gained kinda thing.
Ryhme and Reason is a ghost town, I think I said as much earlier. it is and always has been a place for people to share with no in-your-face authority. some people like that kind of thing some people don't.
that said, these forums also still give a platform for debate and general opinion so I think it's a nothing lost nothing gained kinda thing.
Nobody HAS to "host" a "clan". Ahavati, that was just an example.
These homepage groups would host themselves. To do that, we come together, pitch ideas for diverse writing styles that would prevail as overarching groups. Readers and writers will likely align themselves into one (or more) of those groups based on their creative literary interests. Then the site functionality would KEEP these groups auto-sorted by default, unless a user chooses to unsort the poems and read EVERY SINGLE POST by publish date.
Also, there doesn't need to be leader proclamation for everything, Ahavati. Groups DON'T always need leaders. I have personally learned that the term "safe space" can mean the protection of a realm just as much as it can mean the protection of users from each other as well as the protection of users from the realm itself.
For example, if by default, I didn't have to scroll through a bunch poetry to which I totally don't relate, just to hopefully read the latest novice horror poet, that would be fun a relieving. Instead, We're all compelled to browse through "not my cup of tea" works of garbage which are often labeled "honest critique". THAT is what starts the disgruntlement. THAT is what starts the wars. THAT kind of time-waste nonsense is what incurs MY literary wrath, and gets some of you mucky-mucks rallying for my ban.
These homepage groups would host themselves. To do that, we come together, pitch ideas for diverse writing styles that would prevail as overarching groups. Readers and writers will likely align themselves into one (or more) of those groups based on their creative literary interests. Then the site functionality would KEEP these groups auto-sorted by default, unless a user chooses to unsort the poems and read EVERY SINGLE POST by publish date.
Also, there doesn't need to be leader proclamation for everything, Ahavati. Groups DON'T always need leaders. I have personally learned that the term "safe space" can mean the protection of a realm just as much as it can mean the protection of users from each other as well as the protection of users from the realm itself.
For example, if by default, I didn't have to scroll through a bunch poetry to which I totally don't relate, just to hopefully read the latest novice horror poet, that would be fun a relieving. Instead, We're all compelled to browse through "not my cup of tea" works of garbage which are often labeled "honest critique". THAT is what starts the disgruntlement. THAT is what starts the wars. THAT kind of time-waste nonsense is what incurs MY literary wrath, and gets some of you mucky-mucks rallying for my ban.
Ahavati, you're missing the ENTIRE point... site traffic and ease of navigation. This generation wants spoonfeedism just like the last generation albeit on a different platform. This website needs a bajillion times more site traffic than it gets. I understand social marketing, media, and SEO. Do you? If you do, then why aren't you doing anything about that? Why isn't ANYBODY with any pull around here doing anything about that?
Riddle me that.
Riddle me that.
