Should we get rid of compulsory tagging on poems?
54.84%
• 17 votes •
Yes
45.16%
• 14 votes •
No
Should we get rid of compulsory tagging on poems?
Casted_Runes said:
Many people already consign their poems to what you call the “store room” by choosing “unicorns” as their tag anyway. People who want to use tags can still do so, and still see what you think of as the relevance of doing so. I really don’t see what the argument is against not forcing people to list the themes of their poems when they don’t want or feel the need to. The site got along fine for years and years without the system, and people are just as able to find poems they want to read using the general genres (Observational, etc). Are you saying that the genres are useless?
Again though, the merits or otherwise of the system are really beside the point. You think it’s needed, I and the majority of people who’ve voted in this poll do not. You can satisfy us both by simply not making it compulsory.
come on man. you're just being difficult. get with the system. there are thousands of members here. to get a true feel of what the majority of people think you'd need 45 votes
otherwise it's just pandering to the ....vocal minority
also: Unicorns 🦄 are decent enough. let me introduce you to a tag which the very fair answer all powerful Webmiss added after some lobbying
#NoPoo
which in its simplest form means a no shit poem. I think it would fit your poetry very well.
you're welcome
Many people already consign their poems to what you call the “store room” by choosing “unicorns” as their tag anyway. People who want to use tags can still do so, and still see what you think of as the relevance of doing so. I really don’t see what the argument is against not forcing people to list the themes of their poems when they don’t want or feel the need to. The site got along fine for years and years without the system, and people are just as able to find poems they want to read using the general genres (Observational, etc). Are you saying that the genres are useless?
Again though, the merits or otherwise of the system are really beside the point. You think it’s needed, I and the majority of people who’ve voted in this poll do not. You can satisfy us both by simply not making it compulsory.
come on man. you're just being difficult. get with the system. there are thousands of members here. to get a true feel of what the majority of people think you'd need 45 votes
otherwise it's just pandering to the ....vocal minority
also: Unicorns 🦄 are decent enough. let me introduce you to a tag which the very fair answer all powerful Webmiss added after some lobbying
#NoPoo
which in its simplest form means a no shit poem. I think it would fit your poetry very well.
you're welcome
Thanks, but I don’t see it as me being difficult when we could have a system where everyone can do as they please. I’m not asking that anything be taken away. I’m not asking that anything be added. I’m not even really asking that anything be changed. I just want it to be optional. Why is that such a big deal?
Casted_Runes said:Thanks, but I don’t see it as me being difficult when we could have a system where everyone can do as they please. I’m not asking that anything be taken away. I’m not asking that anything be added. I’m not even really asking that anything be changed. I just want it to be optional. Why is that such a big deal?
It's not a big deal. Would you want it on a per poem basis or somehow applied to all your poems with a simple button push in your profile?
It's not a big deal. Would you want it on a per poem basis or somehow applied to all your poems with a simple button push in your profile?
Why? They worked perfectly fine.
It’s your site in the end, so you can do what you want. If forcing people to tag their poems with a limited range of key words is what people want, then fine. It just seems redundant and counter intuitive to me.
A poem should speak for itself, in my view. I dislike having to tag a poem I’ve worked hard on just so an easy judgement can be made about it, just so it can be flattened and pigeonholed. “Oh, I don’t need to think about what this poem means, it’s in the tags.” It goes against what poetry is.
It also just adds pointless extra labour when posting a poem. Previously I could just say “well, this is a love poem” or “this is a dark poem” and categorise accordingly. Now I have to spend five minutes or more trying to force my poem into a small range of hashtags. It wouldn’t be as bad if you could tag how you please, but instead you’re also forced to choose from obnoxiously simplistic descriptors.
But again, as I keep saying, NONE of the above - which is, in the end, just my opinion - would matter if you just made it optional. If you didn’t force the writer’s hand so if they try to publish without tags they get an error message. You want tags? Fine. I’m not asking that you get rid of them. I’m just asking that you not force me to use them.
It’s your site in the end, so you can do what you want. If forcing people to tag their poems with a limited range of key words is what people want, then fine. It just seems redundant and counter intuitive to me.
A poem should speak for itself, in my view. I dislike having to tag a poem I’ve worked hard on just so an easy judgement can be made about it, just so it can be flattened and pigeonholed. “Oh, I don’t need to think about what this poem means, it’s in the tags.” It goes against what poetry is.
It also just adds pointless extra labour when posting a poem. Previously I could just say “well, this is a love poem” or “this is a dark poem” and categorise accordingly. Now I have to spend five minutes or more trying to force my poem into a small range of hashtags. It wouldn’t be as bad if you could tag how you please, but instead you’re also forced to choose from obnoxiously simplistic descriptors.
But again, as I keep saying, NONE of the above - which is, in the end, just my opinion - would matter if you just made it optional. If you didn’t force the writer’s hand so if they try to publish without tags they get an error message. You want tags? Fine. I’m not asking that you get rid of them. I’m just asking that you not force me to use them.
Casted_Runes said:Thanks, but I don’t see it as me being difficult when we could have a system where everyone can do as they please. I’m not asking that anything be taken away. I’m not asking that anything be added. I’m not even really asking that anything be changed. I just want it to be optional. Why is that such a big deal?
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Now, the system may not be optimal or perfect, but it does help to promote a sense of order. This is useful for exploration and/or inspiration by using the tagging as a way to search. Rather than searching the whole of DU in a rather blind fashion.
Themes/tags better convey what a poem is likely to be, as opposed to categories. -As a 'dark' poem may have quite dark setting or language but be on a satirical note or uplifting or satanic. Along the lines of 'don't judge a book by its cover'.
While I can appreciate that some poems defy labels and defining, having a way to categorise has advantages as described above: it also enables access to a wider audience. Having the categorisation as opt-in would probably require tweaking of code, and somewhat skew the accuracy of the categories as a whole.
Perhaps the answer is not to burn the system down to the ground, but reformat the system to better suit the needs presented. -Such as having a tag such as 'other' or 'unknown' to satisfy the unqualifiable, beyond figurative hand-waving and explanations that last longer than the poem itself!
The modern world does have a habit of putting things in boxes with nice neat ribbons, though this is sometimes offset by the number of boxes things fall into! The sometimes paradoxical state of both being one and many things: complex and simple simultaneously.
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Now, the system may not be optimal or perfect, but it does help to promote a sense of order. This is useful for exploration and/or inspiration by using the tagging as a way to search. Rather than searching the whole of DU in a rather blind fashion.
Themes/tags better convey what a poem is likely to be, as opposed to categories. -As a 'dark' poem may have quite dark setting or language but be on a satirical note or uplifting or satanic. Along the lines of 'don't judge a book by its cover'.
While I can appreciate that some poems defy labels and defining, having a way to categorise has advantages as described above: it also enables access to a wider audience. Having the categorisation as opt-in would probably require tweaking of code, and somewhat skew the accuracy of the categories as a whole.
Perhaps the answer is not to burn the system down to the ground, but reformat the system to better suit the needs presented. -Such as having a tag such as 'other' or 'unknown' to satisfy the unqualifiable, beyond figurative hand-waving and explanations that last longer than the poem itself!
The modern world does have a habit of putting things in boxes with nice neat ribbons, though this is sometimes offset by the number of boxes things fall into! The sometimes paradoxical state of both being one and many things: complex and simple simultaneously.
Viddax said:
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Now, the system may not be optimal or perfect, but it does help to promote a sense of order. This is useful for exploration and/or inspiration by using the tagging as a way to search. Rather than searching the whole of DU in a rather blind fashion.
Themes/tags better convey what a poem is likely to be, as opposed to categories. -As a 'dark' poem may have quite dark setting or language but be on a satirical note or uplifting or satanic. Along the lines of 'don't judge a book by its cover'.
While I can appreciate that some poems defy labels and defining, having a way to categorise has advantages as described above: it also enables access to a wider audience. Having the categorisation as opt-in would probably require tweaking of code, and somewhat skew the accuracy of the categories as a whole.
Perhaps the answer is not to burn the system down to the ground, but reformat the system to better suit the needs presented. -Such as having a tag such as 'other' or 'unknown' to satisfy the unqualifiable, beyond figurative hand-waving and explanations that last longer than the poem itself!
The modern world does have a habit of putting things in boxes with nice neat ribbons, though this is sometimes offset by the number of boxes things fall into! The sometimes paradoxical state of both being one and many things: complex and simple simultaneously.
I don't recall Runes or anyone in this thread suggest scrapping the system ..?
Once the categories are removed, leaving only themes, an "opt out of themes" button shouldn't affect anything except the person choosing to utilize it.
And themes that few people if anyone are going to explore are essentially useless.
The more popular and specific the term, the better - especially if it can bring visitors/readers into DUP via a search engine like Google. Each theme has its own page indexed by Google, etc.
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Now, the system may not be optimal or perfect, but it does help to promote a sense of order. This is useful for exploration and/or inspiration by using the tagging as a way to search. Rather than searching the whole of DU in a rather blind fashion.
Themes/tags better convey what a poem is likely to be, as opposed to categories. -As a 'dark' poem may have quite dark setting or language but be on a satirical note or uplifting or satanic. Along the lines of 'don't judge a book by its cover'.
While I can appreciate that some poems defy labels and defining, having a way to categorise has advantages as described above: it also enables access to a wider audience. Having the categorisation as opt-in would probably require tweaking of code, and somewhat skew the accuracy of the categories as a whole.
Perhaps the answer is not to burn the system down to the ground, but reformat the system to better suit the needs presented. -Such as having a tag such as 'other' or 'unknown' to satisfy the unqualifiable, beyond figurative hand-waving and explanations that last longer than the poem itself!
The modern world does have a habit of putting things in boxes with nice neat ribbons, though this is sometimes offset by the number of boxes things fall into! The sometimes paradoxical state of both being one and many things: complex and simple simultaneously.
I don't recall Runes or anyone in this thread suggest scrapping the system ..?
Once the categories are removed, leaving only themes, an "opt out of themes" button shouldn't affect anything except the person choosing to utilize it.
And themes that few people if anyone are going to explore are essentially useless.
The more popular and specific the term, the better - especially if it can bring visitors/readers into DUP via a search engine like Google. Each theme has its own page indexed by Google, etc.
Anonymous
Would it be possible to ADD a category, "uncategorized"?
For me, tagging is fine; I already have a mind that likes to "feel" organised so I have some fun tagging my poems. Agreeably, there are grave limitations to the system, in which I find the "miscellaneous" option the most disgusting, because it seems more like a copout that covers (or absolves) the multitude of sin when one cannot find a worthy category for a noble poem.
One could take a John Dewey/ISBN/Library of Congress approach to tagging/categorisng, which provides, by scientific means, a place for every blooming shade of literature. The themes of life are far too wide for us to believe we could ever please or accommodate everyone's unique ideas. Maintaining, some order, however, is, to me, critical -- unless we prefer to dwell in the courts of chaos/free-for-all/laissez-faire.
One could take a John Dewey/ISBN/Library of Congress approach to tagging/categorisng, which provides, by scientific means, a place for every blooming shade of literature. The themes of life are far too wide for us to believe we could ever please or accommodate everyone's unique ideas. Maintaining, some order, however, is, to me, critical -- unless we prefer to dwell in the courts of chaos/free-for-all/laissez-faire.
Again, the argument seems to be going along the lines of whether or not the system is good or bad. I’m not arguing that it’s either good or bad. I’m not arguing that it either should or shouldn’t be kept. ALL I’m asking is that it not be compulsory. By all means, keep tagging. Promote it. Put a big sign in bold above the box saying “DUP STRONGLY RECOMMENDS TAGGING YOUR POEM SO THAT IT CAN BE CATEGORISED”. Just don’t force people to tag. Why is not forcing people to do things bad? We don’t force people to give feedback, even though giving feedback is a lot more important to a poetry site than hashtags.
Viddax said:
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Yes, it is. Everything else in your comment is fine and well-argued, but also irrelevant to the point of the comment you were replying to. Have an organised system. Keep the system. Just. Make. It. Optional.
Unfortunately it is not so simple to please everyone and have an organised system.
Yes, it is. Everything else in your comment is fine and well-argued, but also irrelevant to the point of the comment you were replying to. Have an organised system. Keep the system. Just. Make. It. Optional.
Casted_Runes said:Again, the argument seems to be going along the lines of whether or not the system is good or bad. I’m not arguing that it’s either good or bad. I’m not arguing that it either should or shouldn’t be kept. ALL I’m asking is that it not be compulsory. By all means, keep tagging. Promote it. Put a big sign in bold above the box saying “DUP STRONGLY RECOMMENDS TAGGING YOUR POEM SO THAT IT CAN BE CATEGORISED”. Just don’t force people to tag. Why is not forcing people to do things bad? We don’t force people to give feedback, even though giving feedback is a lot more important to a poetry site than hashtags.
I take your point, Casted_Runes. My response was not so much a defense against your recommendation; after realising that I had not weighed in on the discussion thread, I read the entire set of responses and then decided to share my personal perspective on the original two options, to tag or not to tag. I also did this without selecting either of the two boxes.
Let's see how this plays out within the bounds of "reasoning with reasonable men."
I take your point, Casted_Runes. My response was not so much a defense against your recommendation; after realising that I had not weighed in on the discussion thread, I read the entire set of responses and then decided to share my personal perspective on the original two options, to tag or not to tag. I also did this without selecting either of the two boxes.
Let's see how this plays out within the bounds of "reasoning with reasonable men."
Frankly I do not know how the system works in the technological sense. I have near zero experience or expertise with coding or website formatting.
So on that note, I would like to hear how an optional system could be introduced to DU. -Not as in 'tell me, while I sit smugly laughing at your lack of expertise', but genuinely as in 'how does it work'?
That way I can sidestep any conversation about the system, where I give vague reasons for its existence, and instead on focus on the topic of implementation of such options.
Seeing as some people just don't vote in elections, it seems reasonable that DU should allow users to opt-in or opt-out of some features. (An example of a system; elections, primarily democracy in mind, where pleasing everyone is near impossible! Though it is possible to please no one with a decision it seems.)
Though at the end of the day it is not strictly within my ability or capacity to change the website. That honour lays with the Webmistress; not trying to point fingers or shirk responsibility, just be transparent.
So on that note, I would like to hear how an optional system could be introduced to DU. -Not as in 'tell me, while I sit smugly laughing at your lack of expertise', but genuinely as in 'how does it work'?
That way I can sidestep any conversation about the system, where I give vague reasons for its existence, and instead on focus on the topic of implementation of such options.
Seeing as some people just don't vote in elections, it seems reasonable that DU should allow users to opt-in or opt-out of some features. (An example of a system; elections, primarily democracy in mind, where pleasing everyone is near impossible! Though it is possible to please no one with a decision it seems.)
Though at the end of the day it is not strictly within my ability or capacity to change the website. That honour lays with the Webmistress; not trying to point fingers or shirk responsibility, just be transparent.
