[quote-520475-anna_grin]i’d suggest some research of your own there to bring you up to speed black / minority issues.

or you know. read the thread

OH i have

did you now. looks like you only read what your eyes wanted to see, to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

and now my open call out is buried under your opinion. thanks a bunch.

anna_grin said:did you now. looks like you only read what your eyes wanted to see, to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

and now my open call out is buried under your opinion. thanks a bunch.

No
It's not buried under my opinion.
Im just a small voice
within the many
in the forums
on this site
and we all argue and debate
If i think
some thing is wrong
i argue and debate
as do we all
my opinion
About this site
i believe is right
The basic rules
keeps
everyone
inclusive
no matter
where they are from
or who they are
because if it wasn't inclusive
i wouldn't be here
The same goes
for the other poem sites
i'm on
But the one thing
i'm starting to notice
on this site
is that the forums
are starting to break down
into us and them
Which to me is sad
There should be no
us and them
What ever happened
to OK I hear what your saying
i understand what you mean
so lets just agree to disagree
and move on
Now
THERE IS
No
debating
NO
point by point
Reasoning
Why one of us
who have posted something
is wrong
Now it's just
the knee jerk chicken dance
sticks and stones
For all of us
for want of a better word
i assume
this site
is like our comfort zone
where we can relax a little
from the madness outside
Where we can
write what we feel
Be you fucking black white
or any other fucking color
Be you on the fucking left
or the fucking right
Here
IT SHOULD NOT FUCKING MATTER
This site is supposed to be
OUR FUCKING HOME FROM HOME
It's gonna be a real sad day
When a monthly review
comes into play
on this site
Where everyone's  Poems
Are reviewed
excepted
or rejected
or band
Because of a different point of view
Am i paranoid
Maybe i am
not for me to say
That for others
who been on this site
for years
To tell me
ALL that i have written
is wrong

Ill climb off my soap box
and stick it back in the cupboard
with the rest of my
Toys
and not bring it out again

ive got no reason to agree to disagree with you i just plain disagree. i do hear what you’re saying and you’ve finally come with a good point. this place should feel like a home from home. for everyone including black/minority poets. i don’t see that it does right now, especially in the forums.

a competition like this (which is what i wanted to talk about) wouldn’t infringe your rights, stop you participating in discussion, ban you from posting your poems, or hurt you in any way. literally the only thing you couldn’t do is (if you are not minority ethnic) win a trophy. in one competition out of the many you could otherwise enter. is that really so offensive to you?

i acknowledged earlier i think somewhere else that it would naturally be somewhat based on trust. ive got enough faith left in the underground here that i think that would work.

See this kinda fits my line of thought of 'I just don't get it': is having a BAME competition necessarily needed? Its not a case of 'the BAME should go back to their blasted hole and not be seen' and that idiotic racism, but a case of 'is this the right method in the right place'?

I am still slightly unclear on the aim of the competition. If it is to give more medals to non-whites, then that starts to stray into the realms of forced inclusivity: shining a spotlight on someone for being X rather than because of what they did. However if it is to really get into the minefield of race, then rather than saying if X please enter, it may be better to say what you feel and provide a space for people to provide their piece.
That way, if they feel they have been ignored or maligned or treated unequally then they can say it their own words and experience and the focus is on that. As an example, somewhat hypothetically, there doesn't seem to be competitions that held in native languages/ non-English: so opening up a competition to be non-English is a gateway. If people contribute and it turns out that we have a ton of Creole and Polish poets, then there is a reason and drive to hold such focussed competitions.

Having a competition that uses language that has a 'majority' and 'minority' makes it awkward. The focus is better on "tell us about Y" rather than a vague "Y is a minority so tell us about it". It just seems a bit dehumanising: sitting back in an ivory tower and asking for tales of the foreign, rather than having a specific interest as the tales are freely shared. - Anna I know this is not your intent: the previous sentence is over-embellished poetic license rather than a dig at you. Your intent seems fine, but the execution feels a bit off. Though I have no bloody idea how to do it better, and can only express my feelings rather than a blueprint on how to do things!


Dragging this back a few pages, when I said about suggesting I am 'White' it was partly going off the idea that other comments here may be attached to someone 'White'. Though in all seriousness I do not care that much about your skin colour mostly due to being more interested in the words and having enough problems with remembering names, nevermind trying to associate traits with race etc. Plus I find a voice or tone or personality is more interesting with some mystery, rather than have it presented in black and white (or grey, or pink, or blue ad infinitum!).
It was also partly a reference to being wot-I-am: mixed race/half-cast and that I am in part white and in part black. Living in Britain and being an indoorsy type person means I am not particularly exposed to the Sun and Melanin. Also means I somewhat 'fade' at times compared to having been on holiday and in the Sun: further confounded by image quality and light angles. All meaning I can fool and deceive others as to my race: that might be useful sometime!

Which brings me back around to my thought and experience that on DU, race and identity is an after-thought and on the back burner compared to personality or writing style. We may not be some ideal utopia where all people are equal and things like prejudice don't exist, but we do seem to be in a rather useful 'blind' and utility state: its not what you are but how you express yourself.


That is most likely a bunch of rambling nonsense, but that is my style!
All in all, the intent is good yet the road to hell is paved with good intentions. *Insert finger wagging* Maybe it is better sometimes to ask about a situation rather than just try to fix it? Though the flipside is without people taking the plunge and doing, we can end up in the same stagnant state and getting nowhere!

hey viddax, thanks for your thoughts: yes it is a bit forced inclusivity, but on the other hand, no one is forced to enter. it's just an open door.  and if, as i think is the case, the atmosphere/culture makes a minority individual feel excluded, i think it's better to do something than nothing.

competitions along the lines you're suggesting would also be a fantastic idea, yet i don't see anyone creating them. it would be kind of interesting to talk about why that is.

i would love tales of the foreign to read in my ivory tower.  i would drink that up.  i think they would bring some people's ivory towers crashing down.  but it's not actually that much about black vs. white. for example, a black person living in africa might not call themselves a minority, although they might find themselves in the minority here.  the reason i made the competition free topic was to try and counter the idea that i was specifically asking for poems about minority experience. they could theoretically be anything and everything.

what you say about race and identity being on the back burner may well for the most part be true. but on the back burner shit can still boil over. for example, if a poet posted a poem in patois, would it get the same recognition and attention as if the poet used a "whiter" voice?  what about rap?

i'm not saying anyone should have to forsake their anonymity or sacrifice any mystique. like i said before, it's an open door through which they may step if they so wish.

and yeah that's why i started this thread, to ask about it

if anyone does have any other ideas, im honestly all ears, and i encourage everyone to do anything they think would help the situation (as i see it, i know not everyone sees what i see)

apologies if i replied to anything out of order, or missed anything important

i do get the sense that i am repeating myself already so i am very doubtful that we can agree, viddax. but you’ve made your position clear enough, and i understand it.

if anyone has any better ideas instead of just criticism and shouting down that would be helpful

kind of looks like our resident fae trickster was right in that not enough people give enough of a fuck

i find that more sad than anything else but i will continue to howl at the moon whether she hears me or not. whether i hear a howl back or i don’t.

I can settle for saying that we agree that we disagree. Not about to try and convert someone and state that it is my way or the highway!

appreciate that vid and if you do happen to come up with an alternative solution let me know

anna_grin said:appreciate that vid and if you do happen to come up with an alternative solution let me know

I've got one called the "Fuck the poll results -I'm going to do it anyway!" solution.

JohnnyBlaze said:

I've got one called the "Fuck the poll results -I'm going to do it anyway!" solution.




i cannae commit to it as i would have to find a willing guest judge each time was hoping for material support from somewhere

anna_grin said:

i cannae commit to it as i would have to find a willing guest judge each time was hoping for material support from somewhere

I would gladly offer if not for NaPo and Classic Comp commitments. I can't multitask worth a darn. 😔