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Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
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Joined 11th Apr 2015
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Well, here's the crux, SKC, the only part of your statement I disagreed with and referred to was the historical inaccuracy of the quote you referenced, and by that reference you deemed it was once 'prevalent'.

‘I agree with you, there is power in the communities, but first we must come together as a nation, where colors do not hinder our growth to be the great country we once were, where that saying, “One Nation Under God’ was prevalent.’

Given the history of the U.S.A., I disagree it was ever prevalent, much less original, historical fact. Religion never is. Love is. Spirituality is. Compassion is. Kindness is. But never religion. Religion divides.

The Pledge of Allegiance was originally intended for ALL people of ALL faiths, which is why the religious reference to God was excluded by the original author.

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all.”

What the U.S.A. ( * cough middle-aged white men cough * ) did by amending the 'pledge' was negate the author's true intention. Thankfully their proposals to revise the constitution of the U.S.A. failed:

We the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Governor among the nations, and His revealed will as our supreme authority, in order to constitute a Christian government, to form a more perfect union, ... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. (ellipses as given in source)

Millions have been slaughtered in the name of Religion. Some cultures suffered genocide and no longer exist in the name of religion. Which brings me to my next point:

[ . . . ] to be the great country we once were, where that saying, “One Nation Under God’ was prevalent.’ unquote

The appendage to, One Nation Under God, reflects the sole change that is needed here today. ~ SKC


In light of the U.S. A.'s history, I would LOVE for you to reference a century or decade where this country was "great"?

Maybe it was during the 15 -1700's, when it was founded on blood and the attempted genocide of millions of Native Americans who were beaten raped, enslaved, and had their property stolen by "Christians"?

Or perhaps it was between the 15-1800's, when 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World to be enslaved, beaten, raped, and murdered at will by "Christians"?

Or perhaps it was the mid 1900's, when our Japanese citizens were thrown into internment camps?

Maybe the 1960's?  When thousands of African American's were lynched, burned, maimed, raped, and murdered during the civil rights movement?

I could go on ( women's rights, etc. ), but I am sure you understand my point ( without me having to passively-aggressively post a dictionary's definition of  "point" for you ).

Yes; there are good people, I am sure you are one of them. But as a whole, the U.S.A. has committed atrocities justified as the will of "God".

The Crusades (Christianity)
The Inquisition (Christianity)
Genocide of Native Americans (Christianity)
The Ku Klux Klan Murders (Christianity)
Witch Hunts & Wiccan Murders (Christianity)
Biblical Endorsement to Mistreat Homosexuals (Christianity)
The Holocaust (Christianity)
French Wars of Religion (Christianity)

Okay, some are inapplicable ( to a point ) but added for emphasis.

Is it any wonder that many NOT of the Christian faith shudder at the mention of "God"? How many ancestors did they lose because it was "God's will"?

What's prevalent is what was intended, this:

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all.”

Edit: Edits are due to attempts to correct codes.






MadameLavender
Guardian of Shadows
United States 88awards
Joined 17th Feb 2013
Forum Posts: 5611

And if anyone wants to go down a deeper rabbit hole, America ceased to be a Republic in 1871, when it was sold out to the banking sector, thus giving it "Corporation" status, which it still is today:

https://www.youhavetheright.com/tour1/

Technically, too, Washington DC is unconstitutional in its existence -- it's an area exempt from Constitutional law, yet all of our laws come out of DC.....same way that London and the Vatican are little countries within countries and exempt from everything except themselves .   Technically , too, DC is not the original capital of America-- it was NYC first, then Philadelphia after that.

Josh
Joshua Bond
Tyrant of Words
Palestine 41awards
Joined 2nd Feb 2017
Forum Posts: 1802

MadameLavender said:And if anyone wants to go down a deeper rabbit hole, America ceased to be a Republic in 1871, when it was sold out to the banking sector, thus giving it "Corporation" status, which it still is today:

https://www.youhavetheright.com/tour1/

Technically, too, Washington DC is unconstitutional in its existence -- it's an area exempt from Constitutional law, yet all of our laws come out of DC.....same way that London and the Vatican are little countries within countries and exempt from everything except themselves .   Technically , too, DC is not the original capital of America-- it was NYC first, then Philadelphia after that.


You are right about "little countries within countries" ... ref this quote from Clement Atlee, U.K Prime minister from 1945-1951:
"Over an over again we have seen that there is in this country another power than that which has its seat at Westminster. The City of London, a convenient term for a collection of interests, is able to assert itself against the governnment of the country. Those who control money can pursue a policy at home and abroad contrary to that which has been decided by the people".
Most people don't get this; it lies at the heart of continued impoverishment of the masses, both materially and spiritually.

Carpe_Noctem
Tyrant of Words
Spain 8awards
Joined 3rd Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 2932

Josh said:

You are right about "little countries within countries" ... ref this quote from Clement Atlee, U.K Prime minister from 1945-1951:
"Over an over again we have seen that there is in this country another power than that which has its seat at Westminster. The City of London, a convenient term for a collection of interests, is able to assert itself against the governnment of the country. Those who control money can pursue a policy at home and abroad contrary to that which has been decided by the people".
Most people don't get this; it lies at the heart of continued impoverishment of the masses, both materially and spiritually.


Governments are illegitimate entities.  The Australian government for example is a registered corporation.  
Which is why putting the slave selection in the slaves selection box aka voting does not change a thing. The corporate representatives are going to do the corporates bidding.

The technocratic coup that happened during the  scamdemic highlighted this for any that could see what was evidently happening.

Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 117awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 15123

Here is an interesting fact check on what happened in 1871. I'm still on the fence about it.

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/01/fact-check-act-of-1871-did-not-establish-the-united-states-as-a-corporation.html

Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 117awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 15123

Josh said:

You are right about "little countries within countries" ... ref this quote from Clement Atlee, U.K Prime minister from 1945-1951:
"Over an over again we have seen that there is in this country another power than that which has its seat at Westminster. The City of London, a convenient term for a collection of interests, is able to assert itself against the governnment of the country. Those who control money can pursue a policy at home and abroad contrary to that which has been decided by the people".
Most people don't get this; it lies at the heart of continued impoverishment of the masses, both materially and spiritually.


It took me forever to find this article I'd read about the US actually being an Empire, in comparision to the Roman and British Empires. The interesting this I found about this article is this reference:

This history shows us why Washington, D.C. announces so loudly and clearly that, upon the inauguration of each new president, there has been a peaceful transition of power.  Such peacefulness is unusual in the history of such transitions in a mature government.

If such peaceful transitions remain the norm for changes in its government, then the USA can last a very long time, unless a stronger force from without successfully challenges it. So far, the primacy of the civilian executive over the military function has not been challenged by elements of the military or by either house of Congress.


Source: https://pavellas.com/2021/01/07/is-the-usa-still-a-republic/

The last presidential election heralded our capital under siege. Nothing peaceful about that, and the reverberations of its effect are still being felt today.

Change is coming, it's written in the stars, literally. Especially with upcoming ingress of the planet of destruction and rebirth.


lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
Palestine 67awards
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 14473

More or less the same in Ireland. The originol proclamation of independence (1867) had no mention of God. the rebellion was squashed handy enough. 49 years later the proclamation changed dramatically. some of it it thought to have been ripped from the American proclamation because time constraints at the printers

I'll post the other one later because rune constraints, but here's the 1st


The Irish People to the World

We have suffered centuries of outrage, enforced poverty, and bitter misery. Our rights and liberties have been trampled on by an alien aristocracy, who treating us as foes, usurped our lands, and drew away from our unfortunate country all material riches. The real owners of the soil were removed to make room for cattle, and driven across the ocean to seek the means of living, and the political rights denied to them at home, while our men of thought and action were condemned to loss of life and liberty. But we never lost the memory and hope of a national existence. We appealed in vain to the reason and sense of justice of the dominant powers. Our mildest remonstrance’s were met with sneers and contempt. Our appeals to arms were always unsuccessful.

Today, having no honourable alternative left, we again appeal to force as our last resource. We accept the conditions of appeal, manfully deeming it better to die in the struggle for freedom than to continue an existence of utter serfdom.

All men are born with equal rights, and in associating to protect one another and share public burdens, justice demands that such associations should rest upon a basis which maintains equality instead of destroying it.

We therefore declare that, unable longer to endure the curse of Monarchical Government, we aim at founding a Republic based on universal suffrage, which shall secure to all the intrinsic value of their labour.

The soil of Ireland, at present in the possession of an oligarchy, belongs to us, the Irish people, and to us it must be restored.

We declare, also, in favour of absolute liberty of conscience, and complete separation of Church and State.

We appeal to the Highest Tribunal for evidence of the justness of our cause. History bears testimony to the integrity of our sufferings, and we declare, in the face of our brethren, that we intend no war against the people of England – our war is against the aristocratic locusts, whether English or Irish, who have eaten the verdure of our fields – against the aristocratic leeches who drain alike our fields and theirs.

Republicans of the entire world, our cause is your cause. Our enemy is your enemy. Let your hearts be with us. As for you, workmen of England, it is not only your hearts we wish, but your arms. Remember the starvation and degradation brought to your firesides by the oppression of labour. Remember the past, look well to the future, and avenge yourselves by giving liberty to your children in the coming struggle for human liberty.

Herewith we proclaim the Irish Republic.

THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT.



https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/bfa965-proclamation-of-independence/

That's the edited version. God turns up in the first few words

SweetKittyCat5
Tyrant of Words
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Joined 5th Sep 2018
Forum Posts: 1596

Thank you for such an eye-opening repose my poetess, just a little overshadowing some of your statements.

Well, here's the crux, SKC, the only part of your statement I disagreed with and referred to was the historical inaccuracy of the quote you referenced, and by that reference you deemed it was once 'prevalent'.

I agree with you, there is power in the communities, but first we must come together as a nation, where colors do not hinder our growth to be the great country we once were, where that saying, “One Nation Under God’ was prevalent.

Given the history of the U.S.A., I disagree it was ever prevalent, much less original, historical fact. Religion never is. Love is. Spirituality is. Compassion is. Kindness is. But never religion. Religion divides.

Not so fast, reach back in your history and it all depends on what historical we are speaking in reference to. In addition, that statement rings true, “One Nation Under God’ was prevalent.

It was the progressive philosophical each one of us by the constitution as being one embodiment as a one nation, and the standards of our democracy for which we suppose to uphold, now rather you practice in its belief remains to be seen.

In regard to its written notation, everyone desires the hospitality of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

‘One Nation Under God,’ was affluent when disparity was not at an all-time high, when people of all hues lived in peace and not fearful or temperament citizens burning property to the ground, children sold from their parents’ arm, or forced against their will of being enslaved and becoming an immigrant in a foreign land.

When communities such as of Wall Street, in Tulsa, to the streets of Rosewood, were systemically thriving and living in peace. The envy of detrimental minds with superiority complex related issues became a threat to Caucasian dominated American men to test that unity of that mindset. In the end, a two day bloody massacre.

From the horrid history of the European man in society, its history never concludes well for the antagonist of the protagonist.

That same mentality has been adopted and dominates here today. That way of thinking has stalled the growth of economic gains among diversified groups, to own land, becoming a homeowner, or the selection to a better college of higher education, not unless a martyr as a quote, for more incoming academy grants.


The Pledge of Allegiance was originally intended for ALL people of ALL faiths, which is why the religious reference to God was excluded by the original author.

If you research your history you will come to realize the Pledge of Allegiance was not written for the faith of anyone, it was to draw a parallel between the good ole USA and the Soviet Union, who everyone knows was Atheists, my poetess. That is why the word, God was included for the political distinction of God fearing members of faith against non-believers in the divinity.

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all.”

What the U.S.A. ( * cough middle-aged white men cough * ) did by amending the 'pledge' was negate the author's true intention. Thankfully their proposals to revise the constitution of the U.S.A. failed:

I would not say it failed in the nature of its true intention, the idealism was good, but if minds cannot comprehend peace from war, therefore, we fast forward here today to try and decipher whose ideology but suits the presented question or the scenario.


The appendage to, One Nation Under God, reflects the sole change that is needed here today. ~ SKC

In light of the U.S. A.'s history, I would LOVE for you to reference a century or decade where this country was "great"?

Great is a state of mind, my poetess, and for the period of that time for which its democracy stands, and yes, I will take pride to recognize African American citizens, as a united people who were at one time flourishing when employment was beneficial, more landowners of diversity, and the economy was productive.

It is redundant to blame the states of affairs, in regard to a country when the forefathers, who were the initial ones who were in partisan mandated one fifth of a live birth consists of not being accounted as a person or as a sovereign body for the purpose of determining representation in Congress.
.
Neither can one blame the stare on movement affairs in regard to the government. I think you have redirected that observation and ask yourself, why it was not great.


Maybe it was during the 15 -1700's, when it was founded on blood and the attempted genocide of millions of Native Americans who were beaten raped, enslaved, and had their property stolen by "Christians"?

Or perhaps it was between the 15-1800's, when 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World to be enslaved, beaten, raped, and murdered at will by "Christians"?

Or perhaps it was the mid 1900's, when our Japanese citizens were thrown into internment camps?

Maybe the 1960's?  When thousands of African American's were lynched, burned, maimed, raped, and murdered during the civil rights movement?

Yes; there are good people, I am sure you are one of them. But as a whole, the U.S.A. has committed atrocities justified as the will of "God".

The Crusades (Christianity)
The Inquisition (Christianity)
Genocide of Native Americans (Christianity)
The Ku Klux Klan Murders (Christianity)
Witch Hunts & Wiccan Murders (Christianity)
Biblical Endorsement to Mistreat Homosexuals (Christianity)
The Holocaust (Christianity)
French Wars of Religion (Christianity)

Okay, some are inapplicable ( to a point ) but added for emphasis.

Is it any wonder that many NOT of the Christian faith shudder at the mention of "God"? How many ancestors did they lose because it was "God's will"?

You cannot twist the fact, those heinous acts of man were carried out, not by the divine, but by free will of those men. From the Puritans to the Vikings.

You mentioned all this bloody massacre, and mind me if I add, who have carried out these atrocities, among other populations.  

Religion does not divide the masses it is the interpretation of sound, mind that uses religion in the name of God to maim or comment acts against members of society, by race, by gender, or by ethnicity.

Therefore, when you select the atrocities that have been carried out, as you have noted, it is safe to say and from your listings it was carried out in malice with ill-intent, against certain members of society.

I am not questioning the validity of malevolent by men against other races. We will be at that all day with me defending the cause and narrating the effect.

Your original response was in regard to One Nation Under God and when was American ever great.

The Bible, Holy Quran, the Torah, teaches the faithful or the follower the right way within the creed of its practicing religion, subsequently, the dire consequences if not heed. I cannot speak on wickedness; it is what is appears to be
.

What's prevalent is what was intended, this:

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all.”

Yes, in the beginning, until the government added the word, ‘God’ to show we are the nation of divine, and the separatism of its faith in contestant being in war with a military, of non-believers. during that time of war with the Soviet Union

Thank you, my poetess, for engaging me in thought, and with respect, hence force, adding some insightful information.

SKC




Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 117awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 15123

‘One Nation Under God,’ was affluent when disparity was not at an all-time high, when people of all hues lived in peace and not fearful or temperament citizens burning property to the ground, children sold from their parents’ arm, or forced against their will of being enslaved and becoming an immigrant in a foreign land.~SKC

The second amendment to the Pledge of Allegiance to include 'One Nation Under God' happened in 1954, right smack dab in the middle of the Civil Rights movement, and the same year the Supreme Court’s landmark Brown v. Board of Education decision to allow African Americans the right to study alongside their white peers in primary and secondary schools.

The decision fueled an intransigent, violent resistance during which Southern states used a variety of tactics to evade the law for almost a decade before President Kennedy sent a comprehensive civil rights bill to Congress in June,1963.  

The country was polarized, and disparity was at an all-time high. It always has been in the US for one reason or another. From women's suffrage, wars, protests, civil rights, LGBTQ and so on and so on and so on. And it's attributed to fear and some "holy scripture". THIS is why there is a separation of politics and religion! But there's not. Not really. Because most politicians cannot be partial where their faith is concerned, so they advocate for it, because, after all, their religious constituents put them in office.

America has NEVER had a peaceful existence because of the Karma we sowed to establish this country. And we won't until religion is taken out of the picture of politics completely, and ALL HUMAN BEINGS are treated equally.

This is why I asked you to list a century, or decade, when America was "Great", as you asserted in reference to the amendment "One Nation Under God".

You didn't, because there is none. Every century, every decade, there has been war, bloodshed, inequality, murder, rape, and attempted genocide.

Get religion OUT of politics ( as well as money ) and you will have a government by the people, of the people, and for the people.

As to the rest of your assertion, I'm just too tired.

SweetKittyCat5
Tyrant of Words
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Joined 5th Sep 2018
Forum Posts: 1596

This is why I asked you to list a century, or decade, when America was "Great", as you asserted in reference to the amendment "One Nation Under God".

You didn't, because there is none. Every century, every decade, there has been war, bloodshed, inequality, murder, rape, and attempted genocide.

I will reiterate.

When communities such as of Wall Street, in Tulsa, to the streets of Rosewood, were systemically thriving and living in peace. The envy of detrimental minds with superiority complex related issues became a threat to Caucasian dominated American men to test that unity of that mindset. In the end, a two day bloody massacre.

From the horrid history of the European man in society, its history never concludes well for the antagonist of the protagonist.

When communities such as of Wall Street, in Tulsa, to the streets of Rosewood, were systemically thriving and living in peace. The envy of detrimental minds with superiority complex related issues became a threat to Caucasian dominated American men to test that unity of that mindset. In the end, a two day bloody massacre.

From the horrid history of the European man in society, its history never concludes well for the antagonist of the protagonist.


The second amendment to the Pledge of Allegiance to include 'One Nation Under God' happened in 1954, right smack dab in the middle of the Civil Rights movement, and the same year the Supreme Court’s landmark Brown v. Board of Education decision to allow African Americans the right to study alongside their white peers in primary and secondary schools.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931).

As I stated previous, the idea to add Under God was is in part a response to the Civil War and the calamities suffered unto.”

Yes, as history has noted in retrospect, Years later, in 1954, in response to ‘America’s Cold War against godless Soviet communism, Congress approved the addition of the words “under God and Congress amended.

And that is the sole reason for the words, to have included, under God, so yes, I would have to say, it did pertain to the religion aspect. At times Chruch and State grievance lines are blurred.

Look around we used religion connections to state. We swear on the Bible in a court of law, we swear in our elected government officials into office using the bible, words to christen, wedding, death, and both become government marked statistics.

And yes, religion is deeply embedded in polities, one of these days, if I had more time, I would have explained that in depth.

I hope we both can walk away feeling mentally refreshed, my poetess, it is always refreshing to share a gifted mindset, where you learn to pass the lessons taught.

Peace be unto you, and thank you for the informative interchanges…

SKC


Carpe_Noctem
Tyrant of Words
Spain 8awards
Joined 3rd Mar 2013
Forum Posts: 2932

If the so called African Americans could physically return to Africa. Would they be welcomed ?

Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 117awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 15123

I will reiterate.

When communities such as of Wall Street, in Tulsa, to the streets of Rosewood, were systemically thriving and living in peace. The envy of detrimental minds with superiority complex related issues became a threat to Caucasian dominated American men to test that unity of that mindset. In the end, a two day bloody massacre. ~ SKC


You can reiterate until the cows come home but you're not going to be able to provide me a century or decade where the US lived peacefully.

The horrors inflicted on both Tulsa and Rosewood happened in the 1920's. This was over three-decades prior to the second amendment of the Pledge of Allegiance to include 'One Nation Under God' in 1954.

Prior to those atrocities was the long-forgotten Red Summer, where white supremacist terrorism and racial riots were by the Elaine Massacre, where hundreds of black citizens ( men, women, and children ) were massacred in Arkansas in the earlier 1900's.

In the 1800's we had the women's suffrage movement. How many women were beaten, raped, imprisoned, force-fed, and murdered because they, like the African Americans & Native American simply wanted the right to be considered a HUMAN BEING?

The 1600 and 1700's was the massacre and attempted genocide of over 12 million Native Americans that I also previously mentioned.

For every century or decade you attempt to 'reiterate' the US was living in peace and that 'One Nation Under God' meant something, I will prove to you it was not, and no, it meant nothing except association with murder, rape, and thievery, cruelty, and racist acts by white supremacy in the US ( sans a few good men such as Kennedy, who lost his life for it ).  The 'Agenda' is why religion is so deeply embedded in our political and legal system.

The Pledge of Allegiance was modified to promote the agenda of white supremacy, whose next target to amend was the constitution, which I previously mentioned and even quoted their proposed amendment to declare God almighty sovereign and Jesus Christ governor of all nations.

They attributed ALL the uprisings and resistance of heathens ( Native Americans, African Americans, Asians ) to a godless society that needed Jesus Christ to save them. When in reality these mighty tribes refused to bow down and serve white supremacy.

And what I asked you was to provide just one decade or century that this country was "great"? What greatness are you trying to get back to? Why are Christians fighting so hard to "make our country great again"?

Why can't we move forward without religion? I reiterate: Remove religion and money from politics, and you will have a government of the people, by the people, and finally, for the people to worship whom they choose and live their lives in peace without white supremacy and 'God' hanging over their heads.

Josh
Joshua Bond
Tyrant of Words
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Joined 2nd Feb 2017
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As far as I get it, in more general terms there is a 'social contract' (written or not) between the governed, and those who govern. (John Locke, 1632-1704).
He refuted the theory of the divine right of kings and argued that all persons are endowed with natural rights - to life, liberty, and property. (Fair enough, though some may take issues with the property bit).
The crux is that when those who govern fail to keep their half of the bargain by protecting the 'natural rights' of the many, what are the many to do? Locke suggested that in such a case those who govern should be removed (by force if necessary) by the people; and a 'proper' means of government installed.
Practical issues aside, in my opinion those who govern have seriously failed to do their bit on behalf of the people since the 1980s - and are instead serving corporations, the banking system, and other "powers and principalities in heaven and on earth".
Maybe this is the way history has to go, but as more and more people wake up, the response of "we-the-people" is coming into ever sharper relief.

Ahavati
Tyrant of Words
United States 117awards
Joined 11th Apr 2015
Forum Posts: 15123

Josh said:As far as I get it, in more general terms there is a 'social contract' (written or not) between the governed, and those who govern. (John Locke, 1632-1704).
He refuted the theory of the divine right of kings and argued that all persons are endowed with natural rights - to life, liberty, and property. (Fair enough, though some may take issues with the property bit).
The crux is that when those who govern fail to keep their half of the bargain by protecting the 'natural rights' of the many, what are the many to do? Locke suggested that in such a case those who govern should be removed (by force if necessary) by the people; and a 'proper' means of government installed.
Practical issues aside, in my opinion those who govern have seriously failed to do their bit on behalf of the people since the 1980s - and are instead serving corporations, the banking system, and other "powers and principalities in heaven and on earth".
Maybe this is the way history has to go, but as more and more people wake up, the response of "we-the-people" is coming into ever sharper relief.


Bingo. Money and Religion.

Carpe_Noctem
Tyrant of Words
Spain 8awards
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It's a story as old as time

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