The Banning of Dr. Seuss
hemihead said:Two things to say:
The estate of the author have recognised that a small portion of the entire body of work encapsulate outdated messages from the time, and they don’t sit with the rest of the works which are positive, inclusive and ask fundamental questions about our relationship with the planet. There are many books that go out of print or stop being printed because they no longer represent the larger body of work, or are recognised at the author not at their best.
What this is really about is a section of society right now saying that free speech allows all speech. They are using this to continue to push the narrative that all speech is equal, all ideas are equal, all views are equal. In a functioning society this isn’t true. We already ban and criminalise child pornography, for example.
The DU is currently experiencing the same debate. There are two threads calling for a change in rules, because there is a minority faction who want to spill hate and disruption. So very quickly the majority see anarchy and hate over-running, and move to change the limits on what is acceptable.
I’m sure that when human sacrifice got banned there were people who held on to it, claiming they were loosing their rights. As a society we disagreed.
Same old.
Let the estate of Dr Seuss manage his legacy. If you have had a look at the bike they are talking about, his legacy gets stronger by removing them....if I could kill two of Hemingway’s books I’d bloody do it.
Bravo, Hemi.
Furthermore, the irony here is the ones who were howling the loudest about political threads in the speakeasy ( to the point of wanting a new forum for them ) are now pissing on the very hydrant of a new political thread in the speakeasy rather than addressing the minority source of disruption.
The estate of the author have recognised that a small portion of the entire body of work encapsulate outdated messages from the time, and they don’t sit with the rest of the works which are positive, inclusive and ask fundamental questions about our relationship with the planet. There are many books that go out of print or stop being printed because they no longer represent the larger body of work, or are recognised at the author not at their best.
What this is really about is a section of society right now saying that free speech allows all speech. They are using this to continue to push the narrative that all speech is equal, all ideas are equal, all views are equal. In a functioning society this isn’t true. We already ban and criminalise child pornography, for example.
The DU is currently experiencing the same debate. There are two threads calling for a change in rules, because there is a minority faction who want to spill hate and disruption. So very quickly the majority see anarchy and hate over-running, and move to change the limits on what is acceptable.
I’m sure that when human sacrifice got banned there were people who held on to it, claiming they were loosing their rights. As a society we disagreed.
Same old.
Let the estate of Dr Seuss manage his legacy. If you have had a look at the bike they are talking about, his legacy gets stronger by removing them....if I could kill two of Hemingway’s books I’d bloody do it.
Bravo, Hemi.
Furthermore, the irony here is the ones who were howling the loudest about political threads in the speakeasy ( to the point of wanting a new forum for them ) are now pissing on the very hydrant of a new political thread in the speakeasy rather than addressing the minority source of disruption.
So, this made me think. Looking at the exchange that just took place, where does the line exist between refusing to use certain words (or asking others not to use them) because they either once did or still do exist as a slur vs using them as an example in order to be accurate about the way they were or are used as a stereotype to disparage or demean? Is it all or nothing, or does intent come into play?
I don't see how the word could not have been used in delivering the gut punch that was requested. An example is a completely different animal here. We have to be able to use these words as examples in order to demonstrate their impact on those they hurt.
I think intent absolutely does tbh. the only word im aware of that is pretty much globally accepted as beyond the pale even in example is the n word.
other words don’t have the same cognates- i doubt anyone would have known what i was talking about if i said “the p word”
other words don’t have the same cognates- i doubt anyone would have known what i was talking about if i said “the p word”
anna_grin said:I think intent absolutely does tbh. the only word im aware of that is pretty much globally accepted as beyond the pale even in example is the n word.
other words don’t have the same cognates- i doubt anyone would have known what i was talking about if i said “the p word”
this is the problem as I see it. why for example is Etahan’s feelings not equal to those of an African American as you see it
how can you tell which is more hurtful considering you don’t belong to either community
other words don’t have the same cognates- i doubt anyone would have known what i was talking about if i said “the p word”
this is the problem as I see it. why for example is Etahan’s feelings not equal to those of an African American as you see it
how can you tell which is more hurtful considering you don’t belong to either community
Ahavati said:I don't see how the word could not have been used in delivering the gut punch that was requested. An example is a completely different animal here. We have to be able to use these words as examples in order to demonstrate their impact on those they hurt.
I agree that if we start trying to censor the use of words in this way, it feels like lessening the understanding of the negative impact it caused or continues to cause. My hope would be that it would naturally fall out of use if people just stopped using it in earnest. If Ana hadn’t used the term, I wouldn’t have gone and researched it (having no idea what it meant) and learned how much we should not ever use that term as it has been and still is used, and how its use related to this conversation. Now I know what that means and how it is offensive, and I’ll certainly never use that term. It made me wonder how we are supposed to educate if we can’t share that information in a precise way?
I agree that if we start trying to censor the use of words in this way, it feels like lessening the understanding of the negative impact it caused or continues to cause. My hope would be that it would naturally fall out of use if people just stopped using it in earnest. If Ana hadn’t used the term, I wouldn’t have gone and researched it (having no idea what it meant) and learned how much we should not ever use that term as it has been and still is used, and how its use related to this conversation. Now I know what that means and how it is offensive, and I’ll certainly never use that term. It made me wonder how we are supposed to educate if we can’t share that information in a precise way?
i am truly sorry i seem to have personally caused offence, anyway.
I guess in future I’ll do as feral suggests and say something along the lines of: travellers being referred to as the p word if i wanted to use it in example.
really interesting how people tend to care so much when it’s them or their mates on the receiving end but not so much if it’s anyone else though
(that’s not personally directed at you feral just an observation)
I guess in future I’ll do as feral suggests and say something along the lines of: travellers being referred to as the p word if i wanted to use it in example.
really interesting how people tend to care so much when it’s them or their mates on the receiving end but not so much if it’s anyone else though
(that’s not personally directed at you feral just an observation)
LunaGreyhawk said:
I agree that if we start trying to censor the use of words in this way, it feels like lessening the understanding of the negative impact it caused or continues to cause. My hope would be that it would naturally fall out of use if people just stopped using it in earnest. If Ana hadn’t used the term, I wouldn’t have gone and researched it (having no idea what it meant) and learned how much we should not ever use that term as it has been and still is used, and how its use related to this conversation. Now I know what that means and how it is offensive, and I’ll certainly never use that term. It made me wonder how we are supposed to educate if we can’t share that information in a precise way?
That's just it: we can't. It's not like anna was calling Ethan the P word. She was using it as an example of a gut punch toward an Irishman who requested it. And because of that, people were educated as to the derogatory nature of the word and will refuse to use it in the future.
I agree that if we start trying to censor the use of words in this way, it feels like lessening the understanding of the negative impact it caused or continues to cause. My hope would be that it would naturally fall out of use if people just stopped using it in earnest. If Ana hadn’t used the term, I wouldn’t have gone and researched it (having no idea what it meant) and learned how much we should not ever use that term as it has been and still is used, and how its use related to this conversation. Now I know what that means and how it is offensive, and I’ll certainly never use that term. It made me wonder how we are supposed to educate if we can’t share that information in a precise way?
That's just it: we can't. It's not like anna was calling Ethan the P word. She was using it as an example of a gut punch toward an Irishman who requested it. And because of that, people were educated as to the derogatory nature of the word and will refuse to use it in the future.
lepperochan said:
this is the problem as I see it. why for example is Etahan’s feelings not equal to those of an African American as you see it
how can you tell which is more hurtful considering you don’t belong to either community
that wasn’t my point at all - that one would be more hurtful than the other. rather that there is an accepted way to refer to the n- word and no such easily understandable way to refer to what i am now saying as the p-word.
by all means continue to try and trip me up 🤷🏻♀️
this is the problem as I see it. why for example is Etahan’s feelings not equal to those of an African American as you see it
how can you tell which is more hurtful considering you don’t belong to either community
that wasn’t my point at all - that one would be more hurtful than the other. rather that there is an accepted way to refer to the n- word and no such easily understandable way to refer to what i am now saying as the p-word.
by all means continue to try and trip me up 🤷🏻♀️
lepperochan said:Clearly human sacrifices aren’t banned, they’ve just been rebranded. it’s still our leaders who are doing it, in the name of gods or the name of security. it’s odd you didn’t notice that :),
Agreed....the scale is perhaps somewhat more ambitious these days....a cool 1/2 million on a philosophical point about whether “the economy” or humans matter more is quite the demonstration of power.
Agreed....the scale is perhaps somewhat more ambitious these days....a cool 1/2 million on a philosophical point about whether “the economy” or humans matter more is quite the demonstration of power.
I never requested it. It was thrust upon me. I took no offence anyway. I know where the word came from and I don’t have a problem with it. it’s probably 300 years old
again, the lady would lose her tits if someone wrote (for example) nugger on a page but she felt it was ok to try offend me
This is what I mean about the hypocrisy of it all
Edit: edited
again, the lady would lose her tits if someone wrote (for example) nugger on a page but she felt it was ok to try offend me
This is what I mean about the hypocrisy of it all
Edit: edited
lepperochan said:I never requested it. It was thrust upon me. I took no offence anyway. I know where the word came from and I don’t have a problem with it. it’s probably 300 years old
again, the lady would lose her tits if someone wrote (for example) nigger on a page but she felt it was ok to try offend me
This is what I mean about the hypocrisy of it all
She wasn't trying to offend you or anyone.
again, the lady would lose her tits if someone wrote (for example) nigger on a page but she felt it was ok to try offend me
This is what I mean about the hypocrisy of it all
She wasn't trying to offend you or anyone.
anna_grin said:
that wasn’t my point at all - that one would be more hurtful than the other. rather that there is an accepted way to refer to the n- word and no such easily understandable way to refer to what i am now saying as the p-word.
by all means continue to try and trip me up 🤷🏻♀️
What was your point then
that wasn’t my point at all - that one would be more hurtful than the other. rather that there is an accepted way to refer to the n- word and no such easily understandable way to refer to what i am now saying as the p-word.
by all means continue to try and trip me up 🤷🏻♀️
What was your point then
