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allowing anti-vaccine is irresponsible

hemihead
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Andres__Castro said:HH,

I like much of what you’ve written, but you presented claims and an argument for the efficacy of vaccines, not an argument for taking the new Covid 19 Vaccines. "Modern vaccines are possibly our finest technical innovation. This is factually indisputable."

Let’s get more specific: Covid 19 vaccines for the present strain. Note: A new strain is coming soon.

Are Covid 19 vaccines safe for EVERYONE: probably not. For a SIGNIFICANT number: I would hope so.

See the scientific journals with data presented below for just a start.  There are conspiracy theorists who don't want to dig into the science/spreading terrible misinformation and then people who are hesitant for extremely good reasons. Let's not conflate the two, yes?

https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/12/568/eabe0948

https://www.ucsf.edu/magazine/covid-vaccine-safety

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6522/1274

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32472-7/fulltext

https://jvi.asm.org/content/94/17/e01083-20


Peace,
A


At no time did this thread present itself as speaking directly to Covid-19 vaccines.

Point on vaccines in general stands.

Re “ there is a new strain....” is a fact so obvious you have pointed it out either because you are not clever, or trying to be. All viruses are constantly mutating, in a race against their hosts defences, as well as to best promote themselves in to the future. Many viruses, in fact all we have studied, adapt to become less harmful to the host over time, since killing the host reduces the number of transmissions they can have from infecting that host.

The current mutations occurring are counter to this trend in some notable cases probably because we are, as a global population, being half-arsed with our control measures and only making it harder/tougher to transmit, but still fairly possible, so naturally selecting the virus to be more infectious (but that doesn’t mean more serious, as a more infectious but less deadly to the host strain would seem to be a great strategy for transmitting in to the future).

In regard to “everyone”, no vaccine is given to everyone, as some people have conditions that do not allow them to be treated. Clinicians are aware of, and screen for this. No immunological expert will be suggesting 100% vaccination....they may however be using  that language to mean “all those able to be vaccinated”, realising most people would not understand the difference.

The basic vaccination program approach works toward herd immunity, which is not full population immunity, but rather a sufficiently high proportion of the population being vaccinated so that the virus cannot transmit freely in that population, thereby controlling outbreaks to manageable events.

No, “everyone” shouldn’t take a (not “the” vaccine, as there are several) vaccine, but those who can should, in an effort to protect those who are not vaccinated, or who are unable too.

At a population scale, you take the vaccine to protect others (which is what mask wearing really is also at the at scale).

I will take it when it available here, as my civic responsibility, since I am healthy enough to do so.

hemihead
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Valeriyabeyond said:


I have retracted every post of mine that has proved to be false


This is admirable. Even more admirable would be to improve your discernment in the first place, which I’m sure you are doing....keep going.

fiveamtuesday
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Valeriyabeyond said:

I had asthma as a child which developed into COPD

I also have aspirin exaserbated respitory distress if I take an aspirin it could kill me
literally suffocate
I have had two episodes in my life and experienced anaphylaxis

I am allergic to bees and most insects specifically the desert southwest's kissing bug I have been to emergency more times than I can count each time with anaphylaxis

I am allergic to most medications cannot take any pain relievers or antibiotic penicillin is the only one

I live at 6000 ft elevation and it can be very hard to breathe up here on any given  day after a hike my oxygen is 40-50%
I live with it
developing my lungs to be healthier and stronger

I do not have wall to wall carpet or central air I use cotton linens and towels and wash with Fels-Naptha

I use homeopathy and these crackpot or armchair physicians are invaluable to me

I use discernment and don't follow every wind that blows by

I also have bulging discs which creates sciatica I use accupressure for that

I cannot risk my life on this vaccine


I live in one of the most polluted major metropolitan cities in the US with frequent dust advisory and high heat warnings.

My state LITERALLY has the highest COVID infection rate per capita in the world.

I have moderate to severe allergies and spent my childhood over medicated on advair and other respiratory and allergy medication.

When I was hospitalized after a severe asthma attack the doctors informed me that if it weren't for my health and fitness I easily would have had to be intubated.

I work in an environment with children and am exposed to germs and illness on a daily basis.

Since October our work has had to put out weekly notifications of cases of COVID contact and exposure that have occurred on our campus, to our staff, or to our clients.

On top of using my cortisosteroid inhaler I take a vitamin D, ginko and magnesium drops.

Before the pandemic I would take hot yoga classes 3-5 times a week, run 7-9 minute miles 1-3 times a week and do weight training 3-5 times a week. This has been my regular routine for almost the past 10 years. Before that I never exercised.

Since the pandemic I've had to do all of my exercise in my own cramped studio apartment.

I receive vaccinations whenever I need to and whenever it's available.

I have to pay out of my own pocket for everything I need to keep myself healthy.

Every time I have to go out in public I have to be acutely aware of the risk I'm at.

I cannot risk not getting vaccinated.

Andres__Castro
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hemihead said:

At no time did this thread present itself as speaking directly to Covid-19 vaccines.

Point on vaccines in general stands.

Re “ there is a new strain....” is a fact so obvious you have pointed it out either because you are not clever, or trying to be. All viruses are constantly mutating, in a race against their hosts defences, as well as to best promote themselves in to the future. Many viruses, in fact all we have studied, adapt to become less harmful to the host over time, since killing the host reduces the number of transmissions they can have from infecting that host.

The current mutations occurring are counter to this trend in some notable cases probably because we are, as a global population, being half-arsed with our control measures and only making it harder/tougher to transmit, but still fairly possible, so naturally selecting the virus to be more infectious (but that doesn’t mean more serious, as a more infectious but less deadly to the host strain would seem to be a great strategy for transmitting in to the future).

In regard to “everyone”, no vaccine is given to everyone, as some people have conditions that do not allow them to be treated. Clinicians are aware of, and screen for this. No immunological expert will be suggesting 100% vaccination....they may however be using  that language to mean “all those able to be vaccinated”, realising most people would not understand the difference.

The basic vaccination program approach works toward herd immunity, which is not full population immunity, but rather a sufficiently high proportion of the population being vaccinated so that the virus cannot transmit freely in that population, thereby controlling outbreaks to manageable events.

No, “everyone” shouldn’t take a (not “the” vaccine, as there are several) vaccine, but those who can should, in an effort to protect those who are not vaccinated, or who are unable too.

At a population scale, you take the vaccine to protect others (which is what mask wearing really is also at the at scale).

I will take it when it available here, as my civic responsibility, since I am healthy enough to do so.

Andres__Castro
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Please keep it simple and civil.

You may have missed the start of this thread and failed to follow 5am's lead.

5am clearly started this thread in response to taking the Vaccine for Covid 19,
as he has a preexisting condition.

I'm not trying to be clever, as you put it: trying to give 5am and maybe others
concrete useful information not simply talk about other vaccines and other generalities.  

i think it would be useful for anyone, including you, to take a look at these articles.

You or anyone else who has not read them have nothing to lose and may pick up
a few important facts...maybe worth sharing with others ASAP. Maybe life saving, who knows.

PEAce,
A,
P.S. Of course the vaccine will not be given to everyone.
But everyone who does get it should have all the
necessary information before choosing to do so.




hemihead
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Andres__Castro said:Please keep it simple and civil.

You may have missed the start of this thread and failed to follow HH's lead.

5am clearly started this thread in response to taking the Vaccine for Covid 19,
as he has a preexisting condition.

I'm not trying to be clever, as you put it: trying to give HH and maybe others
concrete useful information not simply talk about vaccines and other generalities.  

i think it would be useful for anyone, including you, to take a look at these articles.

You or anyone else who has not read them have nothing to lose and may pick up
a few important facts...maybe worth sharing with others ASAP. Maybe life saving, who knows.

PEAce,
A





Read the thread. Also read the links.

Well done on the lancet article (noting it’s an article, not a paper).

I apologise for my bitchy first couple of sentences.....I do so enjoy my high horse sometimes. Well called.

The question you seem to be asking, if I am to take a broad summary of your posted links, is “should every single person in the US (or persons using US developed vaccines) be made to take that vaccine for Covid-19, especially given the speed of development and testing, and the nature of the US pharmaceutical industry’s documented corruption and for-profit motives”.

No, (but a fair argument could be made that you should take it anyway, as a duty to society).

If I was especially in danger of covid 19 killing me, I would take it.

If it was not US developed, but rather using the collective medical efforts of many countries as the rest of the world is doing, I would take it as my civic duty and be vaccinated.

There is the risk of mutations if the virus is only knocked back, not knocked off by effectively selecting for it, as per the mxymatosis disease as an attempt to wipe out rabbits in our country. The attempt was half arses and now the strain is immune to the treatment mechanism, or certainly more so (I have not looked this up recently, but believe that was the gist).

Shit happens.

At a global scale, the fact of our eventual extinction is unavoidable. Maybe an attempt to save as many vulnerable lives as possible by rushing a vaccine in to service early, and then wiping us out, is an honourable risk to take as a species. Beats letting narcissistic leaders turn the planet into a radiative glass ball over some stupid shit that has nothing to do with beauty.

Ps, I’m HH, you fucking idiot....seems like you’re the one should be reading the thread :-)

Andres__Castro
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hemihead said:

Read the thread. Also read the links.

Well done on the lancet article (noting it’s an article, not a paper).

I apologise for my bitchy first couple of sentences.....I do so enjoy my high horse sometimes. Well called.

The question you seem to be asking, if I am to take a broad summary of your posted links, is “should every single person in the US (or persons using US developed vaccines) be made to take that vaccine for Covid-19, especially since the speed of development and testing, and the nature of the US pharmaceutical industry’s documented corruption and for-profit motives”.

No.

If I was especially in danger of covid 19 killing me, I would take it.

If it was not US developed, but rather using the collective medical efforts of many countries as the rest of the world is doing, I would take it as my civic duty and be vaccinated.

There is the risk of mutations if the virus is only knocked back, not knocked off by effectively selecting for it, as per the mxymatosis disease as an attempt to wipe out rabbits in our country. The attempt was half arses and now the strain is immune to the treatment mechanism, or certainly more so (I have not looked this up recently, but believe that was the gist).

Shit happens.

At a global scale, the fact of our eventual extinction is unavoidable. Maybe an attempt to save as many vulnerable lives as possible by rushing a vaccine in to service early, and then wiping us out, is an honourable risk to take as a species. Beats letting narcissistic leaders turn the planet into a radiative glass ball over some stupid shit that has nothing to do with beauty.

Ps, I’m HH, you fucking idiot....seems like you’re the one should be reading the thread :-)

Andres__Castro
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Do I know you?

First, don't call me any names. Period. Show some respect.

Secondly, you are responding to a post at 2:02 that I revised
at 151am because I  wrote HH instead of 5am.

Read the articles if you get the chance. Share them with others
who are concerned about taking vaccines for Covid 19.
This is what's on the table in this thread and the other
Vaccine thread.

This was a thread started by 5am and maybe he can use
the info or not.

Signing off and not coming back, so you have the
last word if you want, regardless.

A

hemihead
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Thanks mate, I will.

(the old passive-aggressive “you can have the last word” five-point-palm-exploding-heart technique, to get the last word, is best responded to thus; thanks mate, I will)

lepperochan
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fiveamtuesday said:I was diagnosed with asthma when I was 3 years old. This is a picture of my medication/treatment.

the discussion I have seen on these forums about vaccination, and how the site allows people to deny them, is unacceptable.

I have been hospitalized on numerous occasions throughout my life due to my respiratory condition. My longest stay in a hospital was 3 days, where I was averaging ~40-50 breaths PER MINUTE for the first two days.

I dare anyone else to take a straw and suck on it 40-50 times per minute for two days and tell me how that feels.

Anyone who is denying COVID-19 is so blessed to never have experienced what it feels like to be suffocating on your own esophagus.

Because of my condition, I was forced to change my entire lifestyle to be fitness minded just so I can be healthy enough to minimize my symptoms. I exercise several days a week out of necessity, meanwhile we allow a bunch of armchair physicians and naturopaths to spread false information and fringe conspiracies.

It is a regular thought to me that I am fortunate enough to be alive in an age where we have access to such sophisticated medicine, because if I were alive during any other time period before the late 70s, my chances of survival would have been quartered or halved.

Anti-vaxers are some of the most entitled assholes I have ever met.



So, long story short you have asthma and dont like anti-vaccers. more than that, you dont think the site should allow opinions which clash with yours on the subject


and you think anti-vaccers are the 'entitled assholes"

see how you feel in 2 years ?

Valeriyabeyond
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fiveamtuesday said:

I live in one of the most polluted major metropolitan cities in the US with frequent dust advisory and high heat warnings.

My state LITERALLY has the highest COVID infection rate per capita in the world.

I have moderate to severe allergies and spent my childhood over medicated on advair and other respiratory and allergy medication.

When I was hospitalized after a severe asthma attack the doctors informed me that if it weren't for my health and fitness I easily would have had to be intubated.

I work in an environment with children and am exposed to germs and illness on a daily basis.

Since October our work has had to put out weekly notifications of cases of COVID contact and exposure that have occurred on our campus, to our staff, or to our clients.

On top of using my cortisosteroid inhaler I take a vitamin D, ginko and magnesium drops.

Before the pandemic I would take hot yoga classes 3-5 times a week, run 7-9 minute miles 1-3 times a week and do weight training 3-5 times a week. This has been my regular routine for almost the past 10 years. Before that I never exercised.

Since the pandemic I've had to do all of my exercise in my own cramped studio apartment.

I receive vaccinations whenever I need to and whenever it's available.

I have to pay out of my own pocket for everything I need to keep myself healthy.

Every time I have to go out in public I have to be acutely aware of the risk I'm at.

I cannot risk not getting vaccinated.


I wish you well
Sounds like you live in my home state of AZ
The state where essential workers (grocery  and convenience store clerks) don't wear masks

Ricky-Journals
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We have sat and thought about it, and I think we’ve come to the conclusion that no two people are the same. Some might get ill some might not. I however have spoke with myself, and we are at the moment not going to take it, just see how things go. I’ll let everyone take it first and if it totally gets rid of Rona, then we will be the first to stand up and say I was not an anti-vacuum.

hemihead
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Ricky-Journals said:We have sat and thought about it, and I think we’ve come to the conclusion that no two people are the same. Some might get ill some might not. I however have spoke with myself, and we are at the moment not going to take it, just see how things go. I’ll let everyone take it first and if it totally gets rid of Rona, then we will be the first to stand up and say I was not an anti-vacuum.


Mighty big of both of you.

Ricky-Journals
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lepperochan said:


So, long story short you have asthma and dont like anti-vaccers. more than that, you dont think the site should allow opinions which clash with yours on the subject


and you think anti-vaccers are the 'entitled assholes"

see how you feel in 2 years ?


👍👍

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