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Freedom of Speech and Censorship Part 2

lepperochan
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Lady, you clearly dont have the knowledge or intelligence to discuss it. good luck with your war on the white man  

Ahavati
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lepperochan said:Lady, you clearly dont have the knowledge or intelligence to discuss it. good luck with your war on the white man  

People; not man. Can we get it right? Just once?  I am a black ally; however, even I cannot relate to the pain of being black in America. At least I can admit that.

The pain that black people feel is not relatable to white people


Valeriyabeyond
Dhyana
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"



JohnnyBlaze
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DaisyGrace said:

So I’m only assuming I know who “those two” are. But I was asked to judge on the New Member of the Month comp and no one influenced my decision. I made a choice based which poem I liked better. I was offered no monetary compensation for my time or opinion. Nor am I am mod. I’m just a regular old member like the rest of you trying to help out in a tough spot.


Thank you, Daisy.



And because it bears repeating in this thread.

MadameLavender said:Once again, let it be said that personal attacks are not tolerated here at DUP .  Mods are not paid and to my knowledge , none of us have any special interests going on with any members as far as favoritism, bribes , etc.

If this site and its members , fail to meet your expectations , feel free to find another online outlet for your creativity and personal attacks .


Thank you, MadameLavender.



JohnnyBlaze
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The disgusting televised ads endorsed by Donald Trump continue, now depicting seniors enduring home invasions because "in Biden's America" the police will have been defunded to the point that no officers will respond to 911 calls in a timely fashion.

Meanwhile, the Biden campaign is NOT stooping to this degenerate level of fear mongering. If it does, I'll be the first to mention it in this thread.

DON'T even begin to tell me both campaigns are operating on the same wavelength. One more than the other is clearly trying to scare people into not voting for the other candidate based on bullshit and not facts.

It's SICKENING.


lepperochan
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sorry I missed these, Cabcool

No. 6:  Are you suggesting a shifting of the vital energies from current action to witch-hunting?  Racism being as subtle as it is, who would bell the cat?

this is indeed a tricky one. I think maybe I presented it wrong.  I wouldnt say 'go find the racists' but certainly when they present themselves i think dissacioate from them quick-smart

I don't have an example to hand. there was one particular post early on this thread taken from a list of demands which wasn't very subtle



No. 7:  Could you be implying that a man placed in a cauldron of boiling oil not even utter his protests just because everyone can already see that he is in heat?

not in the least. I'm talking about image:

https://www.facebook.com/78800265/posts/10101699170715849/

this is a powerful image. to me it projects a calm steely determination. order in the chaos

my thoughts here (and we kinda touch on co-ordination again) is the powers that be would be much more afraid of that kind of image

again, some of the problems which have plagued the protests have come from outside. be they foreign interference, saboteurs or opportunist criminals


if the protests were coordinated in a way which would expose them (ie march to the designated area, then sit down) it may help a lot



Second, the oppressed must take their one small for man that should lead to that giant leap for mankind.  George Orwell metaphored this excellently in Animal Farm - a pseudo world in which "All animals are equal...but some" (the PIGS) "are more equal than others."  The marginalized animals burned down the whole barn.  At any rate, it was a battle between ammals and man, in which the animals liberated themselves.  Unrest and protest are well underway. Change no. 2 - of casting off docility.


this is interesting. we read this book and got different perspectives. Orwell was vehemently anti-communist. the book was written to highlight the hypocrisy of the Russian revolution. ie they took down the monarchy then turned on themselves. what I got from it personally was a warning about future revolutions and the integrity of the revolutionaries

I can see where you're coming from and we're not poles apart



Layla
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60 yr old Bernell Trammell was killed on Thursday afternoon in Milwaukee WI for being a Trump supporter.  From the article it seemed like he was much loved by his community and by his neighbors.  A religious man who ran a shop of handcrafted signs.
What a sad world we're living in at the moment, it's nothing but terrorism when we can't choose freely whom to endorse, whom to vote.
That goes for both sides..its become so dangerous out there, so ugly!

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/07/23/man-shot-and-killed-thursday-afternoon-milwaukee/5498556002/

Ahavati
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Layla said:60 yr old Bernell Trammell was killed on Thursday afternoon in Milwaukee WI for being a Trump supporter.  From the article it seemed like he was much loved by his community and by his neighbors.  A religious man who ran a shop of handcrafted signs.
What a sad world we're living in at the moment, it's nothing but terrorism when we can't choose freely whom to endorse, whom to vote.
That goes for both sides..its become so dangerous out there, so ugly!

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/07/23/man-shot-and-killed-thursday-afternoon-milwaukee/5498556002/


Layla, where on earth did you get that misleading headline? Here is the actual headline:

'He's like a Milwaukee character': Bernell Trammell, 60, was shot and killed on Thursday afternoon outside his office in Riverwest

Nowhere in that article does it say he was killed for supporting Trump. On the contrary:

Agoro said Trammell had many signs in his shop, supporting causes ranging from the Black Lives Matter movement to President Donald Trump's reelection campaign.

Prominently displayed outside the window of the eXpressions office Friday was a green cross —one of Trammell's many handpainted signs — with the words: “THUMBS UP BEFORE GUNS UP!”

After the shooting Thursday, Trammell’s friends said they found that cross flipped backward, its message hidden from view.


How do you know he wasn't killed because he supported BLM? Or something we don't know about in his private life?  That 'Thumbs up Before Guns Up' is an anti-gun movement ( unless I've been misinformed ). That is the sign they found turned upside down and turned around so the message could not be seen.

The police have no idea why he was killed, and are requesting anyone with any knowledge step forward.

Milwaukee police officials have said little about the case, other than to confirm the fatal shooting, which took place at 12:31 p.m. on the 900 block of East Wright Street, near North Bremen Street.

No suspect was in custody Friday. Milwaukee police encouraged anyone with information about the shooting to call (414) 935-7360 or Milwaukee Crime Stoppers at (414) 224-TIPS.

Reggie Moore, director of Milwaukee's Office of Violence Prevention, said he recently intervened in a dispute between Trammell and a young man. Moore thought the incident was related to a Trump sign that Trammell was carrying.


Thought and knowing are two different things. Furthermore, that doesn't mean this man returned to shoot him ( although he may have ). But, we don't know that and to assume it only projects a falsehood.

While I do agree that people on all sides have been persecuted for years over what they believe, be a god, politician, or ordinance, and many have been killed or wounded for serving and/or believing in something ( just look at Gabby Giffords or Malala Yousafzai ), that is yet to be conclusively determined in this case.

Blackwolf
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Layla said:60 yr old Bernell Trammell was killed on Thursday afternoon in Milwaukee WI for being a Trump supporter.  From the article it seemed like he was much loved by his community and by his neighbors.  A religious man who ran a shop of handcrafted signs.
What a sad world we're living in at the moment, it's nothing but terrorism when we can't choose freely whom to endorse, whom to vote.
That goes for both sides..its become so dangerous out there, so ugly!

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/07/23/man-shot-and-killed-thursday-afternoon-milwaukee/5498556002/


Agreed...

Yet , we cannot , as many will jump to , take or believe
the suspicion / position automatically it was an anti - Trump
person who committed the act...it could have been a killing
based on a thought if it looked like a killing by one anti - Trump ,
then there would be more feeling generated *for* Trump...

Right now , is a very crazy and dangerous time...

This was said by one demanding investigation , and should
be considered not just for this man , but *all beings* , including
protesters , pro and con , for or against Trump , or the current
regime or police / military forces attempting to control and
disband protests...

Having grown up at a time when underhanded tactics were
frequently used , I see this as a highly likely tactic to support
Trump's move regarding military movement into the cities ;

And if I can think that , then we must consider political /
military minds seeing this as a way of gaining public support ,
at a time when Trump's support is drastically low...

We can not automatically put blame this on those against
Trump , or the military / police imposition on the populace...

( and I am not insinuating you are , Layla )

Valeriyabeyond
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Ahavati said:

Thought and knowing are two different things. Furthermore, that doesn't mean this man returned to shoot him ( although he may have ). But, we don't know that and to assume it only projects a falsehood.

While I do agree that people on all sides have been persecuted for years over what they believe, be a god, politician, or ordinance, and many have been killed or wounded for serving and/or believing in something ( just look at Gabby Giffords or Malala Yousafzai ), that is yet to be conclusively determined in this case.


Thank you Ahavati
This is the dangerous riot starting fake news reporting we all need to confront

Ahavati
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Valeriyabeyond said:

Thank you Ahavati
This is the dangerous riot starting fake news reporting we all need to confront


I'm not so certain that Layla meant to imply that; perhaps she posted the wrong news link? Perhaps there is another story with that title.

At any rate, yes; misinformation creates chaos. And while that is definitely the goal of some, I'm sure it's not of Layla.

Valeriyabeyond
Dhyana
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Layla said:60 yr old Bernell Trammell was killed on Thursday afternoon in Milwaukee WI for being a Trump supporter.  From the article it seemed like he was much loved by his community and by his neighbors.  A religious man who ran a shop of handcrafted signs.
What a sad world we're living in at the moment, it's nothing but terrorism when we can't choose freely whom to endorse, whom to vote.
That goes for both sides..its become so dangerous out there, so ugly!

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/07/23/man-shot-and-killed-thursday-afternoon-milwaukee/5498556002/


Dearest Layla
I didn't mean to imply you were posting false information or even stirring the shit pot in my comment to Ahavati concerning her comment to your post
Forgive any offense I may have selfishly extended
Much Love V

Layla
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Hey everyone, no offense taken lol and I certainly am not here to stir the pot nor aggravate or stoke the fire.
Lord knows I have enough on my plate and I certainly don't want to borrow more online problems.

After posting that I had to go to work and Im sorry I wasn't around to engage and discuss about the topic.
And, unfortunately we had our first case of Covid at work this week, they didn't want to disclose who it was nor which dept he worked at for privacy reasons but he was sent home to quarantine and not to return till he was tested negative, as well as anyone who worked closely with that guy.  They were also sent home for 14 days.  Not sure if they were required to test also.  But thankfully our hours were so cut this week (9hrs only) that majority of us have not been to work..yeah its time for me to claim partial unemployment.  What a pain in the youknowwhat!
Someday I hope there will be some recognition to all the essential workers as well as health care workers who have been continuously working and serving during these trying times.

About the topic on hand:
I'm sure i've mentioned before that I do have some family in Milw. and we were chatting last night and they brought up the situation, which I googled and there were some articles that popped up immediately which bore the headline of a man who was trump supporter and had just gotten killed.

This first link below is from a news segment video of channel 4 which is nbc local news and does mention him being a trump supporter.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/riverwest-man-59-known-for-holding-political-and-religious-signs-killed-outside-his-own-store

https://www.newsbreak.com/wisconsin/milwaukee/news/1606512199451/respected-milwaukee-community-figure-trump-and-black-lives-matter-supporter-fatally-shot-in-front-of-store

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8559633/Black-Trump-supporter-60-shot-dead-Milwaukee.html

After reading several of them i dropped the milw journal sentinel since it was more of a local paper before heading out.

My cousin did share that there was great deal of racial tension in the city and the location where mr. Trammell's shop is, is in the inner city, the older parts, the poor struggling class.  Apparentely he was a cheerful friendly man who made signs and did have signs both for BLM and Trump, although from some of the articles i read stated that he was on neutral ground and some said he was a Trump supporter. But the the links above do have his pic with a sign that states to Support Trump.

Unfortunately, the idea of BLM and trump simultenously seems like oil and water and whether he was actually a trump supporter we don't know for sure, we can only go by what his friends or neighbors have to say or how the news media reports it, but the sheer fact of him making signs of trump seemed like a very sensitive issue to the community.  Ofcourse, none of us will know for sure till the matter is solved by the investigators.

My feelings about it is not so much whether he was a trump supportor or biden..i don't like what's going on right now where there's great deal of shaming and hatred, belittling, name calling of the parties to each other.  
Looking back during 9/11 everyone displayed their flags outside of their home to show their patriotism and support..i was living in milw at that time..immigrant family that really didn't want to be part of anything, besides the struggles of life..everyone had flags except my family.  One day a neighbor down the street came knocking on the door and he handed us a small flag, the kind people wave watching at parades and he said, 'here, take it put it ouside of your home,  you need it more that anyone else in this neighborhood."
Fast forward to now, people are afraid to display their flags.  I know some who have always displayed and recently have taken down because of fear, that it signifies as being Trump supporter.

I can only tell you what I hear, what i see, and the conversations I engage with regular every day people and I don't like the vibe, I don't like the manipulations,  i don't trust any of the politicians, left or right..there's bigger works in plan and we are nothing but pawns.

Valeriyabeyond
Dhyana
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https://youtu.be/ksDh2QSUcfU

Sensemaking and Tribalism
This video is not necessarily about one particular issue, or subject but,  in actuality it is. Let me explain..
The topics discussed are varied, but follow the path of  culture change in 2020.
Memetic Tribalism, is discussed and the ways in which we can learn to understand eachother.
Beefy or Beef internet sites or more accurately the people behind the "beef" The people who read posts and comment only  to create discord.
If they do not agree with your ideaology your thoughts or comments they will start a virtual war.
Its up to us,  to recognize these people and back down because there is no stopping them.

Much more is discussed it's basically introducing a variety of frameworks of ideas and possible solutions from several contributor's handpicked for their expertise or knowledge .
I could go on but I will let you enjoy
Maybe about 30 long

cabcool
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Ahavati said:

I agree; I have no idea what it feels like to be black. I will further say that BLM has not been a failure. Its name is being painted onto some of the most widely traveled streets across our nation, which have become a pilgrimage of sorts. Confederate statues have been removed; the confederate flag has been removed or is being redesigned, companies are changing racist names and logos, and so forth.

While BLM has a long way to go if it wants to put a dent in the impoverished communities, it has not failed because it's not over. Look how many years and how many lives it has taken to get this far.  Since when is there a time limit on the fight for equality? The story is still being written. . .and will be for decades to come.


A profound statement, Ahavati.  Your own sympathies show how much the evident discontent and anguish in the Black community have appealed to something human in you.  Many eyes have now been opened that once had no particular interest in seeing into what they might not have considered their business.

Human rights are everyone's business.  If it happens to be that human rights demands come in a particular shade, it must be because that shade is where the ills show up.  Human beings must join the shout that White lives matter, if so be it that White lives are at stake; human beings must join the shout that Black lives matter, if so be it that Black lives are at stake.  White nationals are less than human if they turn a blind eye to their Black brothers' pain; Black nationals are less than human if they turn a blind eye to their White brothers' pain.

How much more plainly can I say this?  We are all part of the HUMAN race. No one has a right to be comfortable while his/her counterpart suffers ill, especially at the hands of other counterparts, whatever the shade may be.  No one is excused by looking the other way. How can some be so passive while so many others perish?!

But things are happening; change is taking place, and one fine day, when the last straw has broken the last camel's back, the chains of oppression shall be shattered like scales falling from the eyes of every minion of the dark.

And we all shall wonder why we slept so long...

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