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Freedom of Speech and Censorship Part 2

dustyJournals
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Why can’t the elderly go out to pubs and restaurants at different times to the young, instead of closing everything down at 10?

Why did Trump become better faster than Boris did?
Why are some politicians swallowing too much when they talk?

I’m going mad lol

Ahavati
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Carpe_Noctem said:
Stop with the lies.
[Repetitive]


LOL @ liar. Right. Your youtube conspiracy videos and links are solid proof! While everyone who disagrees or negates your claims with alternative resources are lies.

I may be many things to you ( willfully ignorant, disgusting, a bitch, whatever other negative adjective you decide to throw); however, liar is something you can never truthfully call me. You become agitated and get personal because others refuse to allow you to spoon-feed them your opinion. Why not try transmuting that negativity into an alternate state of mind.

Try saying, I respect your opinion; however, respectfully disagree. For every link you post, I can negate with an alternative source. It's the same with politics and religion. People shoot quotes and bible verses back and forth and it gets them nowhere.

I posted HOURS worth of valid research in regards to your claim about Sweden's herd immunity and subsequent GDP compared to other countries; you totally overlooked those posts and are now focusing back on vaccines.

It's important to post both sides of the story so each person can make up their own minds. You're pro * herd immunity *; I am the opposite. You're anti-vaccine; I am not. My family was military and we received our regular childhood vaccines in addition to many more required by countries we visited or lived in. Thousands of military families did and still do.

And by the way, my GrandPrecious has had all his childhood vaccines, just as his father, and his father.

You can't get it right for every single person on earth because every single person on earth is different. But they are doing a remarkable job of getting it as close as possible. If you've ever known someone with polio, or seen someone suffer with the measles or mumps, or lost someone to smallpox, you might think a bit differently.

Vaccines have the same issue as covid-19: some will take the herd immunity approach while others won't. Who is right? Who is wrong? I am on the side of the one that saves the most lives, and doesn't throw them out with the bath water because "they're going to die anyway".

It makes niether one a liar for choosing their own way; however, it does make one a liar if they become personal and start throwing unfounded insults with those who disagree with them.

"When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."

Ahavati
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This is a very interesting article. It was written last month, but we won't have a more accurate assessment of the GDP until the latest study emerges.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2020/09/coronavirus-how-new-zealand-s-recession-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-world.html

Intersting notations in regards to Sweden:



Sweden

In the June quarter Sweden's GDP fell 8.6 percent, which is its largest drop in modern history.

The fall was significantly worse than the fourth quarter of 2008 during the global financial crisis where it recorded a fall of 3.8 percent.

The country's GDP also fell more than its neighbours which implemented lockdowns to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Economist David Oxley told CNBC that Sweden's sharp GDP contraction "confirms that it has not been immune to COVID, despite the government's well-documented light-touch lockdown". [ . . . ]


In attempting to look at a global perspective of GDP ( Gross Domestic Product ), I've listed the drop per country ( available in this article ):

I've bolded all countries whose GDP was higher than New Zealand's and underlined those countries whose GDP was lower then Sweden's, while subsequently researching whether they imposed lockdowns or not.

It is most interesting to note that those countries whose GDP was significantly lower than Sweden's imposed lockdowns. What is more interesting, is that two of those countries border Sweden ( Finland and Denmark ).

I really want a global perspective:

New Zealand: 12.2 percent - Lockdown
Sweden 8.6 percent - Limited Restrictions
Usa - 14.7 percent - Lockdown
England - 20.4 percent - Lockdown

Austria -10.7 percent - Lockdown
Belgium -12.1 percent (provisional) - Lockdown
Canada -11.5 percent - Lockdown
Chile -13.2 percent - Lockdown
Columbia - 14.9 percent - Lockdown

The Czech Republic -8.7 percent - Lockdown
Denmark -6.9 percent - Lockdown
Estonia -5.6 percent -Lockdown
Finland -4.5 percent  - Lockdown
France -13.8 percent - Lockdown
Germany -9.7 percent (provisional) - Lockdown
Greece -14 percent (provisional) - Lockdown
Hungary -14.5 - Lockdown
Iceland -9.1 percent - Limited Restrictions
Japan -7.9 percent -Limited Restrictions
Mexico -17.1 percent - Lockdown
Romania - 12.3 percent - Lockdown
Russia -3.2 percent - Lockdown
Spain - 18.5 percent - Lockdown
South Africa -16.4 percent - Lockdown
China +11.5 percent - Lockdown

This article was written in April:

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html


This was written this month:

But within Sweden’s scientific and medical community, a debate about the strategy has simmered and frequently boiled over—in the opinion pages of newspapers, within university departments, and among hospital staff. A group of scientists known as “the 22” has called for tougher measures since April, when it published a blistering critique of the country’s public health authority, the Folkhälsomyndigheten (FoHM). The group, which has grown to include 50 scientists and another 150 supporting members, now calls itself the Vetenskapsforum COVID-19 (Science Forum COVID-19).

It says the price for Sweden’s laissez-faire approach has been too high. The country’s cumulative death rate since the beginning of the pandemic rivals that of the United States, with its shambolic response. And the virus took a shocking toll on the most vulnerable. It had free rein in nursing homes, where nearly 1000 people died in a matter of weeks. Stockholm’s nursing homes ended up losing 7% of their 14,000 residents to the virus. The vast majority were not taken to hospitals. Although infections waned over the summer, scientists worry a new wave will hit in the fall. Cases are rising rapidly in the greater Stockholm area, where almost one-quarter of the Swedish population lives.

[ . . . ]

HARM SEEMS to have occurred. The Falu lasarett announced last week that it had been fighting a COVID-19 outbreak in its cardiac ward for 3 weeks, with 10 patients and 12 staff infected so far. As of 27 September, staff will “use protective visors when working closely with patients,” the hospital said. The Swedish Health and Social Care Inspectorate told Science it is investigating 17 hospital and clinic-based outbreaks. In September, Ryhov community hospital in Jönköping announced 20 patients and 40 staff members had been infected in an outbreak in the hospital’s orthopedic ward in May. Five patients died and one is still hospitalized. (The hospital said it had followed FoHM’s policies.) At least three patients have reportedly died of COVID-19 after being infected at the university hospital in Lund.


How's that herd immunity working for you, Stockholm?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash

A nation is judged by how it treats its elderly. Now who's disgusting?

Blackwolf
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lepperochan said:



do show



Have no history on my computer ,
but went to a number of sites last night...

Checked just now , may look later...
maybe you should spend some time
looking into it...

But here , if you look carefully , you shall find *both*
United States and United Kingdom , listed in differing
sections...

Wish I had access to last nite's search history

similarweb.com/website/deepundergroundpoetry.com/

Carpe_Noctem
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Ahavati said:

LOL @ liar. Right. Your youtube conspiracy videos and links are solid proof! While everyone who disagrees or negates your claims with alternative resources are lies.

I may be many things to you ( willfully ignorant, disgusting, a bitch, whatever other negative adjective you decide to throw); however, liar is something you can never truthfully call me. You become agitated and get personal because others refuse to allow you to spoon-feed them your opinion. Why not try transmuting that negativity into an alternate state of mind.

Try saying, I respect your opinion; however, respectfully disagree. For every link you post, I can negate with an alternative source. It's the same with politics and religion. People shoot quotes and bible verses back and forth and it gets them nowhere.

I posted HOURS worth of valid research in regards to your claim about Sweden's herd immunity and subsequent GDP compared to other countries; you totally overlooked those posts and are now focusing back on vaccines.

It's important to post both sides of the story so each person can make up their own minds. You're pro * herd immunity *; I am the opposite. You're anti-vaccine; I am not. My family was military and we received our regular childhood vaccines in addition to many more required by countries we visited or lived in. Thousands of military families did and still do.

And by the way, my GrandPrecious has had all his childhood vaccines, just as his father, and his father.

You can't get it right for every single person on earth because every single person on earth is different. But they are doing a remarkable job of getting it as close as possible. If you've ever known someone with polio, or seen someone suffer with the measles or mumps, or lost someone to smallpox, you might think a bit differently.

Vaccines have the same issue as covid-19: some will take the herd immunity approach while others won't. Who is right? Who is wrong? I am on the side of the one that saves the most lives, and doesn't throw them out with the bath water because "they're going to die anyway".

It makes niether one a liar for choosing their own way; however, it does make one a liar if they become personal and start throwing unfounded insults with those who disagree with them.

"When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."


Well considering I never called you a liar, rather, stop with the lies. WE all know the media has  been caught lying throughout this.
The fact they had come out and said the numbers are inflated. Yet tried to backpeddle, by giving a low %, says everything.

The media at the start, claimed the hospitals were overun. What words did they use. War zone, people piled up.
Utter lies that citizen journalists, proved to lies.
I my self have been to hospital, several times during this. Guess what empty. Other people i knew had similar experiences.
Why.. Because the media have been lying.

Look at the fear porn the news has flashing, continually, cases on the rise, cases, cases.

You are being lied to.

When have I ever said I am an antivaxxer?

So according to your logic. All those Dr's, scientists and medical professionals, that are speaking up against this are, tin foil hat conspiracy theory lunatics and should have their credentials revoked.

That is not how science works woman.

Just as what you posted regarding Sweden. Time will tell. However those statistics could have easily been manipulated, same with the counter arguments.

In these times WE, are being manipulated, it blatantly obvious. You are either blind, or willfully ignorant at this stage.

I do listen to both sides. However one has to question, the fact that there is not a consensus amongst the scientific community. Why is the media not having open debate, why is anyone speaking out against this, censored and deplatformed?

There is a clear agenda being implemented here. It is as obvious as a boil on the arsehole.

Why are politicians like,Biden, Johnson, tredeau and Arden, now using the phrase.

Build
Back
Better?

Avahati, why do support something that is evidently a crime against humanity?

Ahavati
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Carpe_Noctem said:

Well considering I never called you a liar, rather, stop with the lies. WE all know the media has  been caught lying throughout this.
The fact they had come out and said the numbers are inflated. Yet tried to backpeddle, by giving a low %, says everything.

The media at the start, claimed the hospitals were overun. What words did they use. War zone, people piled up.
Utter lies that citizen journalists, proved to lies.
I my self have been to hospital, several times during this. Guess what empty. Other people i knew had similar experiences.
Why.. Because the media have been lying.

Look at the fear porn the news has flashing, continually, cases on the rise, cases, cases.

You are being lied to.

When have I ever said I am an antivaxxer?

So according to your logic. All those Dr's, scientists and medical professionals, that are speaking up against this are, tin foil hat conspiracy theory lunatics and should have their credentials revoked.

That is not how science works woman.

Just as what you posted regarding Sweden. Time will tell. However those statistics could have easily been manipulated, same with the counter arguments.

In these times WE, are being manipulated, it blatantly obvious. You are either blind, or willfully ignorant at this stage.

I do listen to both sides. However one has to question, the fact that there is not a consensus amongst the scientific community. Why is the media not having open debate, why is anyone speaking out against this, censored and deplatformed?

There is a clear agenda being implemented here. It is as obvious as a boil on the arsehole.

Why are politicians like,Biden, Johnson, tredeau and Arden, now using the phrase.

Build
Back
Better?

Avahati, why do support something that is evidently a crime against humanity?


So now a political slogan is really a conspiracy code for the mass manipulation agenda we're being subjected to? I see.

I am neither blind nor willingly ignorant because I disagree with you. I disagree with you because I research and discover your claims ( such as Sweden's herd immunity stance ) aren't the full truth.

No matter what facts I post, you're going to say they could've been manipulated because they don't confirm your theory. By that logic, everything you post could be manipulated too.

So this discussion is futile. You're going to believe what you believe because it's a proven fact that conspiracy theorists have an addiction ( I posted that fact a few pages back ).

Why do I support something that YOU consider a crime against humanity? Because I don't believe it is. I believe herd immunity is. I support whatever preserves as many lives as possible for as long as possible vs throwing them out with the bathwater because they're going to die anyway.

I am the opposite of you. I am not ashamed of that.

Blackwolf
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Town I live in , in Northern California :

40,000 people total , many in woods...

Very long hard drive , over mountains ,
or down coast to get here...

Yet , within that population , so small ,
consider we have had at least thirteen
confirmed cases , even with most wearing
masks...

( And many of us would gladly kill someone
refusing to wear one in a crowd in public ;
We do not f*** around here )

So , now look at world population...

Figure out minimum , yet consider as we
are remote , we also must take into account
the rate in highly populated areas...

I do not think Ahavati is wrong...

One must consider what is documented in one's
own distinct population , the expand one's knowledge
from there , not just grabbing information off a website ,
and making one's case...

Whether governmental , leftist , rightist , conspiracy , or
other websites...just simple listening , research , and clear thinking...

With the data I have , I can only surmise there are a huge amount dead
from Covid worldwide , not by any other so claimed flu , or false reporting...

I said what I said , and I shall refuse to argue...( go talk to yourselves )...;)

Valeriyabeyond
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Ahavati said:

LOL @ liar. Right. Your youtube conspiracy videos and links are solid proof! While everyone who disagrees or negates your claims with alternative resources are lies.

I may be many things to you ( willfully ignorant, disgusting, a bitch, whatever other negative adjective you decide to throw); however, liar is something you can never truthfully call me. You become agitated and get personal because others refuse to allow you to spoon-feed them your opinion. Why not try transmuting that negativity into an alternate state of mind.

Try saying, I respect your opinion; however, respectfully disagree. For every link you post, I can negate with an alternative source. It's the same with politics and religion. People shoot quotes and bible verses back and forth and it gets them nowhere.

I posted HOURS worth of valid research in regards to your claim about Sweden's herd immunity and subsequent GDP compared to other countries; you totally overlooked those posts and are now focusing back on vaccines.

It's important to post both sides of the story so each person can make up their own minds. You're pro * herd immunity *; I am the opposite. You're anti-vaccine; I am not. My family was military and we received our regular childhood vaccines in addition to many more required by countries we visited or lived in. Thousands of military families did and still do.

And by the way, my GrandPrecious has had all his childhood vaccines, just as his father, and his father.

You can't get it right for every single person on earth because every single person on earth is different. But they are doing a remarkable job of getting it as close as possible. If you've ever known someone with polio, or seen someone suffer with the measles or mumps, or lost someone to smallpox, you might think a bit differently.

Vaccines have the same issue as covid-19: some will take the herd immunity approach while others won't. Who is right? Who is wrong? I am on the side of the one that saves the most lives, and doesn't throw them out with the bath water because "they're going to die anyway".

It makes niether one a liar for choosing their own way; however, it does make one a liar if they become personal and start throwing unfounded insults with those who disagree with them.

"When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."



Dayuuum good response !!!
Said with a level head !!
Maybe furrowed brows, but still completely professional !!!
Speaking as a neutral human being
Bravo Ahavati

Carpe_Noctem
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Ahavati said:

So now a political slogan is really a conspiracy code for the mass manipulation agenda we're being subjected to? I see.

I am neither blind nor willingly ignorant because I disagree with you. I disagree with you because I research and discover your claims ( such as Sweden's herd immunity stance ) aren't the full truth.

No matter what facts I post, you're going to say they could've been manipulated because they don't confirm your theory. By that logic, everything you post could be manipulated too.

So this discussion is futile. You're going to believe what you believe because it's a proven fact that conspiracy theorists have an addiction ( I posted that fact a few pages back ).

Why do I support something that YOU consider a crime against humanity? Because I don't believe it is. I believe herd immunity is. I support whatever preserves as many lives as possible for as long as possible vs throwing them out with the bathwater because they're going to die anyway.

I am the opposite of you. I am not ashamed of that.

It's not a political slogan per se, it is the motto for the world economic forums great rest.
The politicians who are using this motto have signed on to the great reset.
Selling their citizens out and commiting crimes against them.

I am on record here in the original covid19 threads, calling this for what it is.
A globalist take over, designed to bring in a one world system.

Some of the things I predicted have come to pass, or are coming to pass.

Track and trace
Social credit scoring
Cashless society
Gulags

I still stand by my words and call this for what it is.

If you want to put your faith in government. If you want to be a good little order follower. If you think all these increasing deaths due to the lockdown, justifies preserving the lives of a minority,.
If you think the mandating of masks and the justification of fining those, who don't wear them is OK. Then you are showing your true colours.

BC before corona. How did we behave when the flu was going , we isolated if we got sick, so as to not infect the elderly and vulnerable. Now everyone is being dictated to, for a virus that has a 99% survival rate. The lockdown is causing immense suffering and harm, joblessness and homelessness through the roof.

The cure is worse than the disease. This is inhumane what is being done here.

I do not consent to this. I am for humanity.

Have you forgotten yours?

Carpe_Noctem
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Blackwolf said:Town I live in , in Northern California :

40,000 people total , many in woods...

Very long hard drive , over mountains ,
or down coast to get here...

Yet , within that population , so small ,
consider we have had at least thirteen
confirmed cases , even with most wearing
masks...

( And many of us would gladly kill someone
refusing to wear one in a crowd in public ;
We do not f*** around here )

So , now look at world population...

Figure out minimum , yet consider as we
are remote , we also must take into account
the rate in highly populated areas...

I do not think Ahavati is wrong...

One must consider what is documented in one's
own distinct population , the expand one's knowledge
from there , not just grabbing information off a website ,
and making one's case...

Whether governmental , leftist , rightist , conspiracy , or
other websites...just simple listening , research , and clear thinking...

With the data I have , I can only surmise there are a huge amount dead
from Covid worldwide , not by any other so claimed flu , or false reporting...

I said what I said , and I shall refuse to argue...( go talk to yourselves )...;)


Question

Out of those 13 cases how many confirmed deaths?

Ahavati
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Carpe_Noctem said:
[ blah blah ]
The cure is worse than the disease. This is inhumane what is being done here.

I do not consent to this. I am for humanity.

Have you forgotten yours?


Nope; mine wasn't thrown out with the bathwater of herd immunity because " they're going to die anyway ".  And mine won't ever be.

The proof is in the pudding.

Sweden - Herd Immunity Covid Deaths: 5,910
New Zealand - Lock Down Covid Deaths: 25

In just the few days that I first posted death rates, how many more have died in Sweden?

Ahavati
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Valeriyabeyond said:


Dayuuum good response !!!
Said with a level head !!
Maybe furrowed brows, but still completely professional !!!
Speaking as a neutral human being
Bravo Ahavati


Thank you, Val. It always works both ways. You can't point a finger at the other side and say "Your facts are manipulated" without pointing a finger at your own.

Blackwolf
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Carpe_Noctem said:

Question

Out of those 13 cases how many confirmed deaths?


87,000 population ( Total County )

21 deaths to date of October 14th


.....................................................................

I did want to add , as per your last post :

Track and trace
Social credit scoring
Cashless society
Gulags

Track And Trace ?

No , most folks I know , do not drive , carry ID ,
carry cell phones , and live in woods where they
cant not even get good cell phone reception , if
at all...that means tracking does not work out here...

( "they" hate that )...( we *love* it )

Never have to use credit , mostly use cash , never
had a credit card in my life until 1994 , threw it
away years ago...

Gulags ?

You have to be kidding me ?

They tried that here , we would do what we did
to the lumber companies years ago...

An old friend , from years ago...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judi_Bari


Ahavati
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Tweet from this week:

Rex Chapman🏇🏼
@RexChapman
·
Oct 11
While we Americans are sitting at home watching the NFL today keep in mind this happened in New Zealand today.

(FWIW - They had an organized national response to Coronavirus.)


Carpe_Noctem
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Ahavati said:

Nope; mine wasn't thrown out with the bathwater of herd immunity because " they're going to die anyway ".  And mine won't ever be.

The proof is in the pudding.

Sweden - Herd Immunity Covid Deaths: 5,910
New Zealand - Lock Down Covid Deaths: 25

In just the few days that I first posted death rates, how many more have died in Sweden?


Avhati the science says lockdown has a minimal effect at best.

https://youtu.be/CPmWYFlUK54
Ivor cummings, who has credentials nailed to his wall. So because he is speaking out against this we should discredited him.

Come on seriously. You are being lied and manipulated through fear based mind control.

How many people are now terrified to leave their house.
I have witnessed first hand people walking in the road, nearly getting run over. To avoid breaking the social distance. I refuse to call it a rule, it is a dictate, same as wearing masks.

In the UK according to the governments website, regarding mask exemption everyone is exempt. Yet most don't bother to read up on it. Or even fully recognise the word play at hand.

So now people with hidden disabilities, are treated like second class citizens. Threatened with fines for not masking up. For what and also why

If masks had any effect, they would have mandated them at the start not half way through. Same as the need to fine people, says this has nothing to do with health and humanity, rather all about control.

This is dehumanising people.
Another thing I have experienced first hand. Is people not wearing masks are more likely to show signs of humanity. At least half a dozen unmasked people smiled, said hello, asked about  life, when i was out in the community today.
Those is see in masks are mostly terrified, some arnt, some talk to me, often i struggle at first to recognise who it is talking to me.
Mostly the masked people look away in fear or have an empty expression on their face.

This is heartbreaking

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