Coronavirus ( Covid-19) Part II
Layla said:
No article or link will do justice to actually report the truth than regular people like myself, you or another that do step out to get necessities.
In my case, since my job involves working on ground level with everyday people and knowing how my companies' delivery is scheduled, delivered on daily basis. I know first hand how the shelves are stocked, who is buying what, at what rate, i can even tell you the amount of money spent per checkout, and how they form of payment is.
(btw, it used to be 90% credit, with this chaos cash payments have equaled credit, so its been 50/50)
Ahavati, i think that initial hysteria of overshopping have finally satisfied the public by overstocking their homes. I think their feelings of insecurity that stores will run out of supplies have restored their confidence seeing that each time they go out they're able to find what they need.
Also, the fact that most stores implemented quantity limit making sure everyone got their share, there's less panic.
As for money and debt, i think america lives on borrowed time and credit, its always been like that and no one knows better than the government hence the rush to open up the businesses.
If this situation prolongs, lets say past july we're all in deep shit lol
I agree and would go further to say "deeper shit" than we're already in! I would LOVE to see job cuts in congress and the house for not doing their job, i.e. - balancing the budget.
I definitely can't find a link I am happy with posting. I would imagine the cash has a lot to do with people like us withdrawing early in the pandemic in case cash was necessary. But I do worry about people who don't have enough either due to rising unemployement, which purportedly rose by 17 million claims in three weeks.
You and I are both lucky in that we managed to put a bit back to last a month or so. I keep imagining those who didn't.
Carpe_Noctem said: [ . . . ]
Ignored due to deliberate ad hominems, etc.
No article or link will do justice to actually report the truth than regular people like myself, you or another that do step out to get necessities.
In my case, since my job involves working on ground level with everyday people and knowing how my companies' delivery is scheduled, delivered on daily basis. I know first hand how the shelves are stocked, who is buying what, at what rate, i can even tell you the amount of money spent per checkout, and how they form of payment is.
(btw, it used to be 90% credit, with this chaos cash payments have equaled credit, so its been 50/50)
Ahavati, i think that initial hysteria of overshopping have finally satisfied the public by overstocking their homes. I think their feelings of insecurity that stores will run out of supplies have restored their confidence seeing that each time they go out they're able to find what they need.
Also, the fact that most stores implemented quantity limit making sure everyone got their share, there's less panic.
As for money and debt, i think america lives on borrowed time and credit, its always been like that and no one knows better than the government hence the rush to open up the businesses.
If this situation prolongs, lets say past july we're all in deep shit lol
I agree and would go further to say "deeper shit" than we're already in! I would LOVE to see job cuts in congress and the house for not doing their job, i.e. - balancing the budget.
I definitely can't find a link I am happy with posting. I would imagine the cash has a lot to do with people like us withdrawing early in the pandemic in case cash was necessary. But I do worry about people who don't have enough either due to rising unemployement, which purportedly rose by 17 million claims in three weeks.
You and I are both lucky in that we managed to put a bit back to last a month or so. I keep imagining those who didn't.
Carpe_Noctem said: [ . . . ]
Ignored due to deliberate ad hominems, etc.
'NOT NOW': US's leading experts on coronavirus shoot down conspiracy theories about inflated death rates
The top health officials leading the US's response to the coronavirus pandemic have shot down the numerous conspiracy theories suggesting fatality rates are being intentionally misrepresented.
Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, said during a press conference on Wednesday that her team had been "hearing both sides" of the unverified rumors — with some suggesting the number of coronavirus-related deaths has been intentionally inflated and others suggesting the opposite, that deaths have been intentionally underreported.
"This has been known from the beginning: So those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it's related to a COVID infection," Birx said. "In fact, it's the opposite. Having an underlying condition and getting this virus, we know, is particularly damaging to those individuals."
. . .
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-doctors-fauci-birx-shoot-down-conspiracy-theories-2020-4
The top health officials leading the US's response to the coronavirus pandemic have shot down the numerous conspiracy theories suggesting fatality rates are being intentionally misrepresented.
Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, said during a press conference on Wednesday that her team had been "hearing both sides" of the unverified rumors — with some suggesting the number of coronavirus-related deaths has been intentionally inflated and others suggesting the opposite, that deaths have been intentionally underreported.
"This has been known from the beginning: So those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it's related to a COVID infection," Birx said. "In fact, it's the opposite. Having an underlying condition and getting this virus, we know, is particularly damaging to those individuals."
. . .
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-doctors-fauci-birx-shoot-down-conspiracy-theories-2020-4
Healthcare workers are taping photos of themselves to their protective gear to help put COVID-19 patients at ease
https://www.insider.com/coronavirus-doctors-photos-over-protective-gear-2020-4?fbclid=IwAR1FQ8aTPmWz-OU7E9HOs4ojzlQGprBWEk-qz3VrNfkW9sKO-GVLZaBR7Mk
I greatly respect the desire for 'facts' because based on 'facts' governments are justifying the current draconian loss of liberties, passing emergency laws without due process, and catalysing the beginnings of a police state (at least USA & UK)
But it seems we have nothing more than perceptions of facts to go on, in which case we are left with a classic power-struggle between which viewpoint manages to make their meaning 'stick' in the public mind. To make meaning 'stick', one is dealing principally with mass psychology and the manipulation of perception - facts are largely irrelevant in such a process.
What I have just written above is of course an opinion - "Josh believes such-and-such". Although there is truth in the saying "the devil is in the detail' (ref: facts), the detail in this case (even counting dead bodies) is not going to help assess the truer nature of what is going on. For that one has to stand back with an eye to history, where even a cursory reading of such should set alarm-bells ringing in every citizen.
I have not quoted any source so I am not sure if what I have written falls within the guidelines of this particular forum-discussion. The source is myself, which factually and formally is: Prof. Dr Joshua F.D Bond Ph.D, FRS. (for the meaning of FRS see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_of_the_Royal_Society).
And what value is all the official names, staus & titles? None. It comes down to a matter of trust.
But it seems we have nothing more than perceptions of facts to go on, in which case we are left with a classic power-struggle between which viewpoint manages to make their meaning 'stick' in the public mind. To make meaning 'stick', one is dealing principally with mass psychology and the manipulation of perception - facts are largely irrelevant in such a process.
What I have just written above is of course an opinion - "Josh believes such-and-such". Although there is truth in the saying "the devil is in the detail' (ref: facts), the detail in this case (even counting dead bodies) is not going to help assess the truer nature of what is going on. For that one has to stand back with an eye to history, where even a cursory reading of such should set alarm-bells ringing in every citizen.
I have not quoted any source so I am not sure if what I have written falls within the guidelines of this particular forum-discussion. The source is myself, which factually and formally is: Prof. Dr Joshua F.D Bond Ph.D, FRS. (for the meaning of FRS see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_of_the_Royal_Society).
And what value is all the official names, staus & titles? None. It comes down to a matter of trust.
Josh said:I greatly respect the desire for 'facts' because based on 'facts' governments are justifying the current draconian loss of liberties, passing emergency laws without due process, and catalysing the beginnings of a police state (at least USA & UK)
But it seems we have nothing more than perceptions of facts to go on, in which case we are left with a classic power-struggle between which viewpoint manages to make their meaning 'stick' in the public mind. To make meaning 'stick', one is dealing principally with mass psychology and the manipulation of perception - facts are largely irrelevant in such a process.
What I have just written above is of course an opinion - "Josh believes such-and-such". Although there is truth in the saying "the devil is in the detail' (ref: facts), the detail in this case (even counting dead bodies) is not going to help assess the truer nature of what is going on. For that one has to stand back with an eye to history, where even a cursory reading of such should set alarm-bells ringing in every citizen.
I have not quoted any source so I am not sure if what I have written falls within the guidelines of this particular forum-discussion. The source is myself, which factually and formally is: Prof. Dr Joshua F.D Bond Ph.D, FRS. (for the meaning of FRS see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_of_the_Royal_Society).
Josh, the one thing I do agree with Carpe on is that I respect you ( and you may want to enlighten him that my answer to your post ( that he claims I ignored ) was in such length it took two posts ). I cannot have a discussion with anyone who refuses to consider what I am posting or saying; who attempts to label my character; who states false facts ( such as me not responding to you, etc. ). That is an age-old tactic ( ad hominem fallacy ) used by those those who don't refute the information, but attack the presenter's character instead—
Who refuses to read my links, but expects me to read theirs; who refuses to entertain just the possibility that they may be wrong. Because I am the first to admit that I may be wrong; however, not based on anything I've seen ( and I have entertained the other side, including researching your Denmark vaccine comment ).
Here's a fact, I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else of what to believe. Let me repeat that: I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else what to believe. You can't discuss something with someone who refuses to consider the information you're putting forth.
Ergo—the resurrection of this thread. Too many people were requesting I start another, but I was very hesitant because of the ad hominem and blatant attacks. The other turned into a blood bath; however, this virus is REAL; it is KILLING PEOPLE, and I cannot, in all good conscience sit back and watch the other thread totally present nothing but conspiracy when there is another side; a very real side.
That being said, I would disagree that we have a little bit more than perceptions, Josh. We know what the coronavirus is, we just don't fully understand its effect on the human respiratory system; therefore, are relating such symptoms to the nearest conclusion based on experience, which is pneumonia. And because of a lack of understanding, we could be treating is wrongly, ergo, the ventilators.
The last Dark Horse Podcast ( link in previous post ), which is very level-headed and objective in their presentations ( both are PhD's in evolutionary biology ), touched base on the above in their last podcast. I enjoy them because they come back in and correct anything that they feel they may have gotten wrong in the previous broadcast.
They also hold an open question broadcast as well.
Bottom line, I like people who admit there is a possibility they are wrong; again, there is a possibility I am wrong in lieu of accurate information in regards to a police state. Heck I could say I know NO ONE who has been harassed by the police, or seen anyone else harassed during this time, ergo, I am right! But I won't, because someone I know may not have shared that with me yet. I haven't spoken to everyone I know.
We KNOW about the virus. We know it's not manufactured but a part of nature. We know that social distancing, which keeps people away from one another, could very well prevent spread.
What we aren't sure of is how it's truly affecting victims. What we aren't sure of is how to treat it. What we aren't sure of is if the government is acting on behalf of the safety of the citizens of their respective countries, or some global one-world conspiracy.
I choose to think positive until I am proven wrong with facts. Unfortunately, I fear those facts will not be visible until this is all over. When, undoubtedly, one side will say "I told you so!" Except it won't be mine, because I can understand the fear so associated with this tenable situation, and what fear breeds.
But it seems we have nothing more than perceptions of facts to go on, in which case we are left with a classic power-struggle between which viewpoint manages to make their meaning 'stick' in the public mind. To make meaning 'stick', one is dealing principally with mass psychology and the manipulation of perception - facts are largely irrelevant in such a process.
What I have just written above is of course an opinion - "Josh believes such-and-such". Although there is truth in the saying "the devil is in the detail' (ref: facts), the detail in this case (even counting dead bodies) is not going to help assess the truer nature of what is going on. For that one has to stand back with an eye to history, where even a cursory reading of such should set alarm-bells ringing in every citizen.
I have not quoted any source so I am not sure if what I have written falls within the guidelines of this particular forum-discussion. The source is myself, which factually and formally is: Prof. Dr Joshua F.D Bond Ph.D, FRS. (for the meaning of FRS see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_of_the_Royal_Society).
Josh, the one thing I do agree with Carpe on is that I respect you ( and you may want to enlighten him that my answer to your post ( that he claims I ignored ) was in such length it took two posts ). I cannot have a discussion with anyone who refuses to consider what I am posting or saying; who attempts to label my character; who states false facts ( such as me not responding to you, etc. ). That is an age-old tactic ( ad hominem fallacy ) used by those those who don't refute the information, but attack the presenter's character instead—
Who refuses to read my links, but expects me to read theirs; who refuses to entertain just the possibility that they may be wrong. Because I am the first to admit that I may be wrong; however, not based on anything I've seen ( and I have entertained the other side, including researching your Denmark vaccine comment ).
Here's a fact, I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else of what to believe. Let me repeat that: I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else what to believe. You can't discuss something with someone who refuses to consider the information you're putting forth.
Ergo—the resurrection of this thread. Too many people were requesting I start another, but I was very hesitant because of the ad hominem and blatant attacks. The other turned into a blood bath; however, this virus is REAL; it is KILLING PEOPLE, and I cannot, in all good conscience sit back and watch the other thread totally present nothing but conspiracy when there is another side; a very real side.
That being said, I would disagree that we have a little bit more than perceptions, Josh. We know what the coronavirus is, we just don't fully understand its effect on the human respiratory system; therefore, are relating such symptoms to the nearest conclusion based on experience, which is pneumonia. And because of a lack of understanding, we could be treating is wrongly, ergo, the ventilators.
The last Dark Horse Podcast ( link in previous post ), which is very level-headed and objective in their presentations ( both are PhD's in evolutionary biology ), touched base on the above in their last podcast. I enjoy them because they come back in and correct anything that they feel they may have gotten wrong in the previous broadcast.
They also hold an open question broadcast as well.
Bottom line, I like people who admit there is a possibility they are wrong; again, there is a possibility I am wrong in lieu of accurate information in regards to a police state. Heck I could say I know NO ONE who has been harassed by the police, or seen anyone else harassed during this time, ergo, I am right! But I won't, because someone I know may not have shared that with me yet. I haven't spoken to everyone I know.
We KNOW about the virus. We know it's not manufactured but a part of nature. We know that social distancing, which keeps people away from one another, could very well prevent spread.
What we aren't sure of is how it's truly affecting victims. What we aren't sure of is how to treat it. What we aren't sure of is if the government is acting on behalf of the safety of the citizens of their respective countries, or some global one-world conspiracy.
I choose to think positive until I am proven wrong with facts. Unfortunately, I fear those facts will not be visible until this is all over. When, undoubtedly, one side will say "I told you so!" Except it won't be mine, because I can understand the fear so associated with this tenable situation, and what fear breeds.
Drone captured footage:
Images have emerged of coffins being buried in a mass grave in New York City, as the death toll from the coronavirus continues to rise.
Workers in hazmat outfits were seen stacking wooden coffins in deep trenches in Hart Island.
Officials say burials are being ramped up at site, which has long been used for people with no next-of-kin or families who cannot afford a funeral.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52241221?at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=3AF2A5DC-7B0C-11EA-99C1-7218FDA12A29&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&fbclid=IwAR2a0KDFTRxnVx4MMNJXbT7KEQri0YWu1s3bbsgUKX47a5kvZRA__YxwM9o
My heart goes out to these families who can't even bury their dead.
Images have emerged of coffins being buried in a mass grave in New York City, as the death toll from the coronavirus continues to rise.
Workers in hazmat outfits were seen stacking wooden coffins in deep trenches in Hart Island.
Officials say burials are being ramped up at site, which has long been used for people with no next-of-kin or families who cannot afford a funeral.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52241221?at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=3AF2A5DC-7B0C-11EA-99C1-7218FDA12A29&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&fbclid=IwAR2a0KDFTRxnVx4MMNJXbT7KEQri0YWu1s3bbsgUKX47a5kvZRA__YxwM9o
My heart goes out to these families who can't even bury their dead.
Here are the latest statistics on the coronavirus, based on situation reports from the World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They were last updated on April 10, 2020 at 4:42 p.m. EDT.
Confirmed cases worldwide: 1,521,252 in 211 countries, areas, or territories
Deaths: 92,798
Global death rate: 6.1 percent
Top 5 countries by case count
1. United States: 459,165
2. Spain: 152,446
3. Italy: 143,626
4. Germany: 113,525
5. France: 85,351
Top 5 countries by death tally (with death rate)
1. Italy: 18,281 (12.7 percent)
2. United States: 16,570 (3.6 percent)
3. Spain: 15,238 (10 percent)
4. France: 12,192 (14.2 percent)
5. United Kingdom: 7,978 (12.3 percent)
U.S. case count: 459,165 in 50 states and the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and Northern Marianas Islands
U.S. deaths: 16,570
U.S. death rate: 3.6 percent
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/health-and-human-body/human-diseases/coronavirus/
Confirmed cases worldwide: 1,521,252 in 211 countries, areas, or territories
Deaths: 92,798
Global death rate: 6.1 percent
Top 5 countries by case count
1. United States: 459,165
2. Spain: 152,446
3. Italy: 143,626
4. Germany: 113,525
5. France: 85,351
Top 5 countries by death tally (with death rate)
1. Italy: 18,281 (12.7 percent)
2. United States: 16,570 (3.6 percent)
3. Spain: 15,238 (10 percent)
4. France: 12,192 (14.2 percent)
5. United Kingdom: 7,978 (12.3 percent)
U.S. case count: 459,165 in 50 states and the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and Northern Marianas Islands
U.S. deaths: 16,570
U.S. death rate: 3.6 percent
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/health-and-human-body/human-diseases/coronavirus/
This response is posted here because it was here that I initially was accused of deliberately not responding to the below post; and, the response itself is to a post in my original Coronavirus ( Covid-19 ) thread.
Josh said:Thank you again for your thoughts.
I’ve long wondered why, in wartime, pacifists receive more contempt and hostility than is reserved for the enemy. And I have come to the conclusion it is because the pacifist poses questions that challenge the validity of the roles people play, which in turn challenge the overall story people inhabit in order to play out those roles.
In other words, the pacifist’s stance poses an overall existential threat not to survival in a time of war, but to the identity of those who sign up willingly to the war agenda. And to have our identity questioned is an unnerving experience which people tend to avoid unless forced by circumstances. Indeed, as I understand it, we have both gone through phases in life where belief-systems collapsed, a no-man’s land was entered, and identity-meaning had to be rebuilt from scratch - a painful yet ultimately life-enhancing journey of what it means to become more fully human.
Translating all this to the current Covid scenario, a counter-current voice crying in the wilderness may be a John-the-Baptist who looks pretty crazy but has a genuine insight of things to come, or may be someone who’s just plain crazy, full-stop. Both types are currently having a field day on the internet. I have no wish to create yet another polarisation and I try and keep an open mind as to where the sword falls in my own case.
But taking a cue from Hegel with the notion of thesis-antithesis-synthesis, Covid also offers an opportunity to create a more beautiful world, taking ‘think global, act local’ up a notch or two from its roots in 1915 town planning, and later as a 1970s mantra—where back-to-the-land can have elements literal (as I have already suggested), and I accept elements also metaphorical and creative at a higher level (Cottage industries in the city? Turning city/industrial wasteland spaces into food-growing spaces?).
Inasmuch the human journey is one of creativity and growth in consciousness, with that in common I am happy to agree with you that we can agree to differ, allowing our differing journeys to take their respective - and creative - courses.
With respect,
Josh.
PS: concerning the acute danger of the slide into tyranny, (hence the critical imperative to rigorously question the mass-media narrative with all its fear-mongering) my above two postings have interesting things to say.
Firstly, I was completely unaware of this response, and wished you'd messaged me about it, Josh. I have not been following the other thread since initially to support the thread-starter. The response I referred to in my former reply to you was in my original thread—which took two posts due to its length.
That being said, you're obviously considering yourself a pacifist. I suppose I am too, because I do question everything, even pacifists. Afterall, if we question, then we should expect to be questioned. And I am more than happy to converse with any type of person who can actually converse. This, as you know, means listening as well as speaking.
There are some people who simply do not want to listen, you know this; it's been demonstrated. They are akin to bible thumpers, and I want nothing to do with them because I prefer my energy spent on more positive and constructive means. I am not diplomatic in that desire; I am blatant and have no patience in that regard.
If anything, a pacifist should realize that to be questioned is their own behaviour being mirrored. I think the true pacifist ( vs anarchist ) is the agnostic of religion—they have to believe before committing. But, once they commit, you can depend on them.
I have seen no hard evidence that would lead me to commit to the theory that our government created this pandemics as a means toward a one-world government to enforce draconian measures of control. I believe, in lieu of the uncertainty and doubt of this virus, they are doing what they feel is best to protect the greater good of society. Will they take advantage of this situation to push agendas? I have no doubt; they already attempted that ( and some successfully ) with the stimulus package. It's sickening that they would do that; however, it's also typical.
But, mass conspiracy? No; I don't believe that.
I agree wholeheartedly this is an opportunity for planetary awareness; it's trying to show us that ( imho ) with wonders like seeing the Himalayas for the first time from a city due to the decrease in pollution. I am in awe of how fast the earth regenerates herself in the absence of the damage we do.
A more ecological way is possible, if it was just invested in. I love the suggestion of cottage industries in the city, and turning city/industrial wasteland spaces into food-growing spaces. I have an old friend from San Francisco who told me he was shocked at the waste we have here. He said in San Fran there is hardly any waste at all due to compactors and composters.
That would be a good place to start right there.
Again, I apologize for not being aware of your response sooner.
Josh said:Thank you again for your thoughts.
I’ve long wondered why, in wartime, pacifists receive more contempt and hostility than is reserved for the enemy. And I have come to the conclusion it is because the pacifist poses questions that challenge the validity of the roles people play, which in turn challenge the overall story people inhabit in order to play out those roles.
In other words, the pacifist’s stance poses an overall existential threat not to survival in a time of war, but to the identity of those who sign up willingly to the war agenda. And to have our identity questioned is an unnerving experience which people tend to avoid unless forced by circumstances. Indeed, as I understand it, we have both gone through phases in life where belief-systems collapsed, a no-man’s land was entered, and identity-meaning had to be rebuilt from scratch - a painful yet ultimately life-enhancing journey of what it means to become more fully human.
Translating all this to the current Covid scenario, a counter-current voice crying in the wilderness may be a John-the-Baptist who looks pretty crazy but has a genuine insight of things to come, or may be someone who’s just plain crazy, full-stop. Both types are currently having a field day on the internet. I have no wish to create yet another polarisation and I try and keep an open mind as to where the sword falls in my own case.
But taking a cue from Hegel with the notion of thesis-antithesis-synthesis, Covid also offers an opportunity to create a more beautiful world, taking ‘think global, act local’ up a notch or two from its roots in 1915 town planning, and later as a 1970s mantra—where back-to-the-land can have elements literal (as I have already suggested), and I accept elements also metaphorical and creative at a higher level (Cottage industries in the city? Turning city/industrial wasteland spaces into food-growing spaces?).
Inasmuch the human journey is one of creativity and growth in consciousness, with that in common I am happy to agree with you that we can agree to differ, allowing our differing journeys to take their respective - and creative - courses.
With respect,
Josh.
PS: concerning the acute danger of the slide into tyranny, (hence the critical imperative to rigorously question the mass-media narrative with all its fear-mongering) my above two postings have interesting things to say.
Firstly, I was completely unaware of this response, and wished you'd messaged me about it, Josh. I have not been following the other thread since initially to support the thread-starter. The response I referred to in my former reply to you was in my original thread—which took two posts due to its length.
That being said, you're obviously considering yourself a pacifist. I suppose I am too, because I do question everything, even pacifists. Afterall, if we question, then we should expect to be questioned. And I am more than happy to converse with any type of person who can actually converse. This, as you know, means listening as well as speaking.
There are some people who simply do not want to listen, you know this; it's been demonstrated. They are akin to bible thumpers, and I want nothing to do with them because I prefer my energy spent on more positive and constructive means. I am not diplomatic in that desire; I am blatant and have no patience in that regard.
If anything, a pacifist should realize that to be questioned is their own behaviour being mirrored. I think the true pacifist ( vs anarchist ) is the agnostic of religion—they have to believe before committing. But, once they commit, you can depend on them.
I have seen no hard evidence that would lead me to commit to the theory that our government created this pandemics as a means toward a one-world government to enforce draconian measures of control. I believe, in lieu of the uncertainty and doubt of this virus, they are doing what they feel is best to protect the greater good of society. Will they take advantage of this situation to push agendas? I have no doubt; they already attempted that ( and some successfully ) with the stimulus package. It's sickening that they would do that; however, it's also typical.
But, mass conspiracy? No; I don't believe that.
I agree wholeheartedly this is an opportunity for planetary awareness; it's trying to show us that ( imho ) with wonders like seeing the Himalayas for the first time from a city due to the decrease in pollution. I am in awe of how fast the earth regenerates herself in the absence of the damage we do.
A more ecological way is possible, if it was just invested in. I love the suggestion of cottage industries in the city, and turning city/industrial wasteland spaces into food-growing spaces. I have an old friend from San Francisco who told me he was shocked at the waste we have here. He said in San Fran there is hardly any waste at all due to compactors and composters.
That would be a good place to start right there.
Again, I apologize for not being aware of your response sooner.
A PROMISING COVID-19 TREATMENT GETS FAST-TRACKED
Arturo Casadevall and collaborators at Johns Hopkins and beyond have worked around the clock to develop a convalescent serum therapy to treat COVID-19 using blood plasma from recovered patients. If early promising studies on the therapy done in China are confirmed by U.S. trials, thousands of survivors might soon line up to donate their antibody-rich plasma. "I absolutely think this could be the best treatment we have for the next few months," Hopkins pathologist Aaron Tobian says.
https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/08/arturo-casadevall-blood-sera-profile/
The Dark Horse podcast also touched base on this, except were more inclined toward the actual transfusion of blood vs plasma.
The USA just surpassed Spain to take the number one seat in deaths from Covid-19.
Arturo Casadevall and collaborators at Johns Hopkins and beyond have worked around the clock to develop a convalescent serum therapy to treat COVID-19 using blood plasma from recovered patients. If early promising studies on the therapy done in China are confirmed by U.S. trials, thousands of survivors might soon line up to donate their antibody-rich plasma. "I absolutely think this could be the best treatment we have for the next few months," Hopkins pathologist Aaron Tobian says.
https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/08/arturo-casadevall-blood-sera-profile/
The Dark Horse podcast also touched base on this, except were more inclined toward the actual transfusion of blood vs plasma.
The USA just surpassed Spain to take the number one seat in deaths from Covid-19.
Coronavirus Is Changing The Rituals Of Death For Many Religions
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/07/828317535/coronavirus-is-changing-the-rituals-of-death-for-many-religions
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/07/828317535/coronavirus-is-changing-the-rituals-of-death-for-many-religions
My late brothers partner succumbed yesterday to the virus, hard when the statistics include ones dear to you. the prospect a funeral of 5 people . denied a chance to share the grief and cry. human bonds cheated. The only wreath that I could lay, a poem
slipalong said:My late brothers partner succumbed yesterday to the virus, hard when the statistics include ones dear to you. the prospect a funeral of 5 people . denied a chance to share the grief and cry. human bonds cheated. The only wreath that I could lay, a poem
I am so sorry for your loss, slip. My heart breaks for those families who can't bury their dead. One of my biggest clients lost her mother last week; she was in a nursing home, and they actually allowed the family to visit ( under uber strict guidelines ) her before ( and as ) she passed on.
I am so sorry for your loss, slip. My heart breaks for those families who can't bury their dead. One of my biggest clients lost her mother last week; she was in a nursing home, and they actually allowed the family to visit ( under uber strict guidelines ) her before ( and as ) she passed on.
slipalong said:My late brothers partner succumbed yesterday to the virus, hard when the statistics include ones dear to you. the prospect a funeral of 5 people . denied a chance to share the grief and cry. human bonds cheated. The only wreath that I could lay, a poem
Sorry to hear of your loss, Slip.
Sorry to hear of your loss, Slip.
Ahavati said:
Josh, the one thing I do agree with Carpe on is that I respect you ( and you may want to enlighten him that my answer to your post ( that he claims I ignored ) was in such length it took two posts ). I cannot have a discussion with anyone who refuses to consider what I am posting or saying; who attempts to label my character; who states false facts ( such as me not responding to you, etc. ). That is an age-old tactic ( ad hominem fallacy ) used by those those who don't refute the information, but attack the presenter's character instead—
Who refuses to read my links, but expects me to read theirs; who refuses to entertain just the possibility that they may be wrong. Because I am the first to admit that I may be wrong; however, not based on anything I've seen ( and I have entertained the other side, including researching your Denmark vaccine comment ).
Here's a fact, I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else of what to believe. Let me repeat that: I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else what to believe. You can't discuss something with someone who refuses to consider the information you're putting forth.
Ergo—the resurrection of this thread. Too many people were requesting I start another, but I was very hesitant because of the ad hominem and blatant attacks. The other turned into a blood bath; however, this virus is REAL; it is KILLING PEOPLE, and I cannot, in all good conscience sit back and watch the other thread totally present nothing but conspiracy when there is another side; a very real side.
That being said, I would disagree that we have a little bit more than perceptions, Josh. We know what the coronavirus is, we just don't fully understand its effect on the human respiratory system; therefore, are relating such symptoms to the nearest conclusion based on experience, which is pneumonia. And because of a lack of understanding, we could be treating is wrongly, ergo, the ventilators.
The last Dark Horse Podcast ( link in previous post ), which is very level-headed and objective in their presentations ( both are PhD's in evolutionary biology ), touched base on the above in their last podcast. I enjoy them because they come back in and correct anything that they feel they may have gotten wrong in the previous broadcast.
They also hold an open question broadcast as well.
Bottom line, I like people who admit there is a possibility they are wrong; again, there is a possibility I am wrong in lieu of accurate information in regards to a police state. Heck I could say I know NO ONE who has been harassed by the police, or seen anyone else harassed during this time, ergo, I am right! But I won't, because someone I know may not have shared that with me yet. I haven't spoken to everyone I know.
We KNOW about the virus. We know it's not manufactured but a part of nature. We know that social distancing, which keeps people away from one another, could very well prevent spread.
What we aren't sure of is how it's truly affecting victims. What we aren't sure of is how to treat it. What we aren't sure of is if the government is acting on behalf of the safety of the citizens of their respective countries, or some global one-world conspiracy.
I choose to think positive until I am proven wrong with facts. Unfortunately, I fear those facts will not be visible until this is all over. When, undoubtedly, one side will say "I told you so!" Except it won't be mine, because I can understand the fear so associated with this tenable situation, and what fear breeds.
I'm sure you're with me when I say we see the world as we are, rather than 'as it is' - we all have our cognitive biases, which hard-wire over time and become more fixed as one gets older - bringing the challenge as to how best to maintain an open mind in the light of many years experience of life and politics.
That said, my personal bias is to look at the situation through the eyes of political history, as also informed by family history of involvement in wars -- rather than through the lens of just medicine. To me, there are a number of severe warning-signs of authoritarian take-over whilst everyone's busy with Covid, and that is what concerns me most.
The bit I've highlighted in the 'quote' above is indeed key - and the answer might in the end be 'both'.
My concern is also that questioning voices are too easily labelled 'conspiracy theory', (as indeed mainstream media may too easily be labelled 'ALL gov't propaganda'). The BBC at least should be giving more time to questioning voices, and to proposals that locking down and supporting the most vulnerable would make more sense than locking down entire economies, and trashing millions of lively-hoods.
I'm not sure if I've seen the same Dark Horse podcasts yet so will have to check them out before saying any more.
Sorry I didn't inform you of my reply to your lengthy reply on the original Covid thread - I had seen your comments at the beginning of the new "Corona Time" thread and assumed (incorrectly) you were following it.
Josh, the one thing I do agree with Carpe on is that I respect you ( and you may want to enlighten him that my answer to your post ( that he claims I ignored ) was in such length it took two posts ). I cannot have a discussion with anyone who refuses to consider what I am posting or saying; who attempts to label my character; who states false facts ( such as me not responding to you, etc. ). That is an age-old tactic ( ad hominem fallacy ) used by those those who don't refute the information, but attack the presenter's character instead—
Who refuses to read my links, but expects me to read theirs; who refuses to entertain just the possibility that they may be wrong. Because I am the first to admit that I may be wrong; however, not based on anything I've seen ( and I have entertained the other side, including researching your Denmark vaccine comment ).
Here's a fact, I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else of what to believe. Let me repeat that: I post these links to discuss and learn—not to convince anyone else what to believe. You can't discuss something with someone who refuses to consider the information you're putting forth.
Ergo—the resurrection of this thread. Too many people were requesting I start another, but I was very hesitant because of the ad hominem and blatant attacks. The other turned into a blood bath; however, this virus is REAL; it is KILLING PEOPLE, and I cannot, in all good conscience sit back and watch the other thread totally present nothing but conspiracy when there is another side; a very real side.
That being said, I would disagree that we have a little bit more than perceptions, Josh. We know what the coronavirus is, we just don't fully understand its effect on the human respiratory system; therefore, are relating such symptoms to the nearest conclusion based on experience, which is pneumonia. And because of a lack of understanding, we could be treating is wrongly, ergo, the ventilators.
The last Dark Horse Podcast ( link in previous post ), which is very level-headed and objective in their presentations ( both are PhD's in evolutionary biology ), touched base on the above in their last podcast. I enjoy them because they come back in and correct anything that they feel they may have gotten wrong in the previous broadcast.
They also hold an open question broadcast as well.
Bottom line, I like people who admit there is a possibility they are wrong; again, there is a possibility I am wrong in lieu of accurate information in regards to a police state. Heck I could say I know NO ONE who has been harassed by the police, or seen anyone else harassed during this time, ergo, I am right! But I won't, because someone I know may not have shared that with me yet. I haven't spoken to everyone I know.
We KNOW about the virus. We know it's not manufactured but a part of nature. We know that social distancing, which keeps people away from one another, could very well prevent spread.
What we aren't sure of is how it's truly affecting victims. What we aren't sure of is how to treat it. What we aren't sure of is if the government is acting on behalf of the safety of the citizens of their respective countries, or some global one-world conspiracy.
I choose to think positive until I am proven wrong with facts. Unfortunately, I fear those facts will not be visible until this is all over. When, undoubtedly, one side will say "I told you so!" Except it won't be mine, because I can understand the fear so associated with this tenable situation, and what fear breeds.
I'm sure you're with me when I say we see the world as we are, rather than 'as it is' - we all have our cognitive biases, which hard-wire over time and become more fixed as one gets older - bringing the challenge as to how best to maintain an open mind in the light of many years experience of life and politics.
That said, my personal bias is to look at the situation through the eyes of political history, as also informed by family history of involvement in wars -- rather than through the lens of just medicine. To me, there are a number of severe warning-signs of authoritarian take-over whilst everyone's busy with Covid, and that is what concerns me most.
The bit I've highlighted in the 'quote' above is indeed key - and the answer might in the end be 'both'.
My concern is also that questioning voices are too easily labelled 'conspiracy theory', (as indeed mainstream media may too easily be labelled 'ALL gov't propaganda'). The BBC at least should be giving more time to questioning voices, and to proposals that locking down and supporting the most vulnerable would make more sense than locking down entire economies, and trashing millions of lively-hoods.
I'm not sure if I've seen the same Dark Horse podcasts yet so will have to check them out before saying any more.
Sorry I didn't inform you of my reply to your lengthy reply on the original Covid thread - I had seen your comments at the beginning of the new "Corona Time" thread and assumed (incorrectly) you were following it.
Ahavati said:Thank you, MadameL
"We Take the Dead from Morning Til Night"
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-bergamo.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR0gABpeSfhAPCt3WgmQW2bOeVu_RkdIZ7J1Us_WIPf4rf0AvkJF5BK14NQ
God bless and comfort the families of victims from this tragic virus.
That's very moving.
I refuse to cement my mind until down the road.
I don't want to become a Judas-goat. (Cowboy lingo for animals used in catching wild mustangs)
"We Take the Dead from Morning Til Night"
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-bergamo.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR0gABpeSfhAPCt3WgmQW2bOeVu_RkdIZ7J1Us_WIPf4rf0AvkJF5BK14NQ
God bless and comfort the families of victims from this tragic virus.
That's very moving.
I refuse to cement my mind until down the road.
I don't want to become a Judas-goat. (Cowboy lingo for animals used in catching wild mustangs)
