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Corona Time

Blackwolf
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SatInUGal said:

Thanks. There's way more agreement in this discussion that it seems. I think people think I'm some kind of square. My world opened up after I heard Terence McKenna speak. I am a huge fan of both the mystery in the universe, and understanding what morsels we can.


Some of this can no longer be accessed...

It is now on Wayback Machine ( archive )

Yet you may , just may , get lost for a loooonnnggg time here...

Enjoy !

http://web.archive.org/web/20170829135902/http://www.deoxy.org/mckenna.htm#tz

Valeriya
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SatInUGal said:

Thanks. There's way more agreement in this discussion that it seems. I think people think I'm some kind of square. My world opened up after I heard Terence McKenna speak. I am a huge fan of both the mystery in the universe, and understanding what morsels we can.


You're not a square Satin and i appreciate your consistent dialogue  that's what this thread is for. The people need to say what they feel and it's all open to healthy debate.  We share what we think,  what we know without judgement.  With BlackWolf's intervention we stay on track lol he brings us back to the melting pot

Carpe_Noctem
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Valeriya said:

You're not a square Satin and i appreciate your consistent dialogue  that's what this thread is for. The people need to say what they feel and it's all open to healthy debate.  We share what we think,  what we know without judgement.  With BlackWolf's intervention we stay on track lol he brings us back to the melting pot


Eye i
Intercontinental
Interdimensional travel
HEAR herein
my perception of reality
The dream and the dreamer are one

Josh
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SatInUGal said:Josh, let's forget about coronavirus for a moment and just talk about a theoretical contagion. A sickness that is spread very easily between people. General scientific consensus is that keeping people physically distant helps stop the spread in a situation like that. If people are not keeping themselves physically distant in such a situation, what do you suggest as the next step in fighting such an illness? Do you agree that, if the goal is to minimize harm to people (i.e. death due to, among other things, hospitals being overloaded by surges), creating rules about staying home could ever be acceptable? I'm just curious because you seem to be painting with an awfully broad brush here, basically saying that every govt, whether local, state, or country, is acting in fascist way right now, despite the fact that among all the governments who have ordered shutdowns, there is a wide disparity of worldviews including socialist and otherwise.

I agree that if there is a contagious killer-bug out there, then social-distancing and a certain amount of home-alone makes sense. I might overplay the opportunistic nature of gov't response to use the situation to increase authoritarianism (my poems are somewhat tongue-in-cheek, hence the limerick format). However I believe the reporting of Corona to be grossly over-hyped; more people died in 2017's flu epidemic and media coverage was minimal. Why the difference?
I've read a lot of history, had German in-laws who experienced 1930s Germany first-hand as teenagers/young adults, and I see patterns of a constant underlying push towards tyranny that every so often rears its ugly head big-time in history - and requires the common people to push back - which they sometimes do at great cost to themselves. Freedoms are hard won; and easily lost.
I'm also aware the mass-media is a government propaganda machine and when such blanket coverage is given to one topic (with questioning it being made into a taboo) then these are danger-signals.
These are the same people who told you there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and invaded days before Hans Blix's report would have come out proving there were not any. These are the same people who argued The Gulf of Tonkin event was a serious enough threat to America to warrant the Vietnam war. There are dozens of similar examples. Why believe them when they say Corona is a mega-danger?
Not every country is in lock-down, self-destructing their economies.
I would love to believe that gov'ts were acting honourably - but I daren't.

Blackwolf
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Valeriya said:

You're not a square Satin and i appreciate your consistent dialogue  that's what this thread is for. The people need to say what they feel and it's all open to healthy debate.  We share what we think,  what we know without judgement.  With BlackWolf's intervention we stay on track lol he brings us back to the melting pot


Cooperative Venture ( Capital )

Always prospers...one way or another...

Carpe_Noctem
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https://youtu.be/qCQaTkVJi_I

WHO calls for "dignified" seizures of sick family members.

Valeriya
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Carpe_Noctem said:https://youtu.be/qCQaTkVJi_I

WHO calls for "dignified" seizures of sick family members.


WTF
DIGNIFIED MANNER?
CREMATORIUM?
LIKE WUHAN?

Josh
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Carpe_Noctem said:https://youtu.be/qCQaTkVJi_I

WHO calls for "dignified" seizures of sick family members.


That's scary - but sadly I'm not surprised. When will people wake up and see how this corona scare is being used politically?

poet Anonymous

Valeriya said:

Thank you for your humor we all need to smile chuckle or laugh
Truly, respectfully poke fun it's healthy for us all


Yes I’m being satirical and yes it is an attempt at humour however the underlying point is that you can assert whatever you wish, but without evidence you’re simply stating an opinion, the reason science has transplanted other methodologies is that it produces proveable real world results that are measurable and replicate-able.

Fear is the mind killer is all well and good to assert but does it prove there is no reason to fear anything, especially an unseen virus that has real tangible results on human life?

Am I advocating fear is the best option, nope I believe understanding and actionable  is significantly better than empty platitudes.

Whilst what is being pointed out by Carpe, Josh and yourself is relevant to be wary of, the sum of it weighed against human life is a delicate balancing act

If the new laws have sunset clauses written in then it should cease once the crisis ceases,

Are we being played as fools by a malicious couture of government actors that want to barcode the population as human cattle I doubt it

Are we over reacting in my opinion probably

Is the economic fallout going to cause more deaths than the disease if it won’t jumpstart once the restrictions ease? I don’t think anyone knows

But are the credentials of those counter arguing these measures on par with those putting the main narrative forward?

The most interesting point of view I have seen is from the tattooed doctor advocating for isolation of the most vulnerable and the rest of us carry on, that to me seemed like the best way forward.


Josh
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Worldometers.info - Statistics

Deaths from 1st January 2020 to 7th April 2020 @23.52.49
Arranged in descending order of magnitude


Deaths caused by cancer             2,203,811
Deaths caused by smoking          1,341,413
Deaths caused by alcohol               671,130
Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS            451,087
Deaths caused by road accidents  362,224
Deaths caused by suicide               287,748
Deaths caused by malaria              263,205
Deaths cause by seasonal flu         130,485
Deaths of mothers during birth      82,939
Deaths from Corona virus*             81,889

* These are deaths from multiple causes where Covid-19 virus was present; stats taken 7th April @ 23.06 (ie: 45 minutes before the other stats above which are updated more regularly)

poet Anonymous

Josh said:Worldometers.info - Statistics

Deaths from 1st January 2020 to 7th April 2020 @23.52.49
Arranged in descending order of magnitude


Deaths caused by cancer             2,203,811
Deaths caused by smoking          1,341,413
Deaths caused by alcohol             671,130
Deaths caused by HIV/AIDS           451,087
Deaths caused by road accidents   362,224
Deaths caused by suicide               287,748
Deaths caused by malaria              263,205
Deaths cause by seasonal flu         130,485
Deaths of mothers during birth          82,939
Deaths from Corona virus*         81,889

* These are deaths from multiple causes where Covid-19 virus was present; stats taken 7th April @ 23.06 (ie: 45 minutes before the other stats above which are updated more regularly)


What is the time line differential between all of these stats? Corona virus present since November all others at least hundreds of years others still since we emerged as what we are today...

So yes the numbers stacked together create a “what are we worried about kind of vibe” however the numbers above covid are steady state, without intervention what is the upper limit this virus could hit... unknown quantity and since it’s growth rate has no known breaks besides social isolation and ppe then that’s what people have demanded

Billy_Snagg
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Josh, I still say, whatever your statistics are with these other death causes, they never overran the hospitals. Your point may be, just may be invalid although I recognise what you are sayin'.

Blackwolf
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"Fear is the mind killer is all well and good to assert but does it prove there is no reason
to fear anything, especially an unseen virus that has real tangible results on human life?"

Just to be clear , if someone chooses to fear , that is *their* choice...

Never said , ( again , just to be clear ) there is no reason not to fear , for some...

Yet , as far as myself ?

Yes , "No Fear" of ***anything*** is the truth...just gets me pissed off...LOL !

SatInUGal
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Yeah, Billy hit it. The issue is the over-running of hospitals. Influenza hasn't done that. COVID-19 is wayyyyy more contagious and quite a bit more likely to require hospitalization. That's why measuring current numbers misses the point. We are necessarily always going to be behind unless/until everyone is tested. The concern is that left unchecked, this thing could become a real society killer. As things are, yes, it feels locked down and destroyed but I think most people regard it as somewhat temporary, even if there are some cycles to contend with for months/years. I would much rather my loved ones deal with work shortages and inconveniences than, you know, dying of something that could perhaps be treated if a hospital were available (as it is, I have a relative in a nursing home who is extremely threatened by this, as it has shown up there, and I have parents in a retirement community that I deeply worry about). It is clear that the lockdown measures are flattening the curve in a way that did not happen before the recommendations became regulations. Flattening the curve is about achieving a bare minimum level of hospitals being able to do their work. Everyone will still get sick. It will just take longer, and that is critical, both to lives and the economy.

SatInUGal
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I also think a lot of good could come out of this. People's eyes are being opened toward healthcare for all as a right, as well as basic income as a sensible thing, for instance.

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