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Corona Virus ( Covid-19 )

hemihead
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Commentonly said:Does anyone else think China should have any accountability for this or did it rush bye too quick, it’s easy to play a blame game especially with how humans are wired?

They did what is starting to look like a better job than anyone to date at controlling it. The beauty of a political system that can mobilise and/or shut down massive chunks of the population unchallenged.

Did they invent and release a weapon? No. Debunked.

Did they do it perfectly? No. Since they were encountering it for the first time, and with the long period it is infectious for but not showing symptoms, plus the high infection rate overall it would have been easy to underestimate while it was moving at an exponential rate. Earlier I quoted some of those rates in comparison to a seasonal flu and the difference is truly staggering. This fucker has got some speed!

There are some questions to ask about why they have had some “interesting” new viruses turn up in the last few years. They clearly have food or livestock handling issues that are allowing organisms to jump species....not that it doesn’t happen anywhere else, but there does seem a curious number.

They have been incredible with their openness with the worlds medical and research experts in sharing their own data, research, control attempts etc, and now their industry is ramping hard to support essential services overseas.

How they manage human rights as they get further outbreaks will certainly be confronting for westerners.

hemihead
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I would personally be concerned about a business that is overly exposed to the Australian housing market, either in construction or renovations. May not be your situation.

High debt/leverage in mortgages, and increasing unemployment is a solid recipe for dropping house prices, which would almost certainly stall both new builds and renovations.l, as developers won’t be able to finance.

If you can trade through it and get on the back of a stimulus boom (assume 12 months to bring projects to market at scale in Australia) you should be ok.

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hemihead said:I would personally be concerned about a business that is overly exposed to the Australian housing market, either in construction or renovations. May not be your situation.

High debt/leverage in mortgages, and increasing unemployment is a solid recipe for dropping house prices, which would almost certainly stall both new builds and renovations.l, as developers won’t be able to finance.

If you can trade through it and get on the back of a stimulus boom (assume 12 months to bring projects to market at scale in Australia) you should be ok.


I agree whole heartedly with that statement, regarding the housing market, it’s normally steady it has had a down turn for us over the last two years.

we manufacture and install wardrobes but we are financially stable enough to get through it for the 12months of pain we have the ability to defer the mortgage payment because we’re a head on it we have a solid cash collateral backstop.

My biggest concern at the moment is supply chains out board products are produced in Australia as is the hanging rods it’s just the aluminium extrusions that worry me as China has the monopoly on the market due to the almighty dollar....

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hemihead said:

They did what is starting to look like a better job than anyone to date at controlling it. The beauty of a political system that can mobilise and/or shut down massive chunks of the population unchallenged.

Did they invent and release a weapon? No. Debunked.

Did they do it perfectly? No. Since they were encountering it for the first time, and with the long period it is infectious for but not showing symptoms, plus the high infection rate overall it would have been easy to underestimate while it was moving at an exponential rate. Earlier I quoted some of those rates in comparison to a seasonal flu and the difference is truly staggering. This fucker has got some speed!

There are some questions to ask about why they have had some “interesting” new viruses turn up in the last few years. They clearly have food or livestock handling issues that are allowing organisms to jump species....not that it doesn’t happen anywhere else, but there does seem a curious number.

They have been incredible with their openness with the worlds medical and research experts in sharing their own data, research, control attempts etc, and now their industry is ramping hard to support essential services overseas.

How they manage human rights as they get further outbreaks will certainly be confronting for westerners.


Confronting... I’m gonna go with terrifying, but when you look at the way they’ve treated the uyghir muslims and Falun Gong it’s to be expected.

The wet markets where they get food from is a petri-dish virus factory, so many variants of animals with cross contaminaetable genome structures with each other and humans it’s kinda a recipe for this to happen.

As to the infection rate making the flu look like an obese man chasing usain bolt  and the ability for a-symptomatic people to shed viral contagion you start asking “what the ever loving fuck is this thing”

I didn’t believe it was lab made still don’t however there are some strong arguments I’ve seen pushing that case forward.


hemihead
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That is indeed a problem. Your dollar is also weakening, which you will have seen. Perhaps an opportunity in that to produce locally, but aluminium processing is all about energy costs. Australian energy costs are too high to work much with that, hence exporting raw bauxite to countries with cheaper power.

Could you alter the designs to a timber version, router cut? (Seems unlikely)

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hemihead said:That is indeed a problem. Your dollar is also weakening, which you will have seen. Perhaps an opportunity in that to produce locally, but aluminium processing is all about energy costs. Australian energy costs are too high to work much with that, hence exporting raw bauxite to countries with cheaper power.

Could you alter the designs to a timber version, router cut? (Seems unlikely)


Impractical with our current machinery types and  would still require a metal for the base plate for the wheels to run in as well as making a timber head track would be hyper expensive damn interesting idea though nothing I’ve actually thought about to be honest but do-able I believe

hemihead
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Commentonly said:

Confronting... I’m gonna go with terrifying, but when you look at the way they’ve treated the uyghir muslims and Falun Gong it’s to be expected.

The wet markets where they get food from is a petri-dish virus factory, so many variants of animals with cross contaminaetable genome structures with each other and humans it’s kinda a recipe for this to happen.

As to the infection rate making the flu look like an obese man chasing usain bolt  and the ability for a-symptomatic people to shed viral contagion you start asking “what the ever loving fuck is this thing”

I didn’t believe it was lab made still don’t however there are some strong arguments I’ve seen pushing that case forward.



Statement made by health professionals in one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world re the origins of covid 19

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext

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hemihead said:

Statement made by health professionals in one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world re the origins of covid 19

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext


Thank you that’s a great reference


Ahavati
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Today's Worldometer

Coronavirus Cases:  487,012 ( + 62,136 ( damn ) )
Deaths:  22,025 ( + 3,084  )
Recovered:  117,563 109,217  ( + 8,346 )

The U.S. just surpassed Spain to be third in the world for diagnosed cases. Congratulations, response team.

US Cases:  68,581 ( + 22,413 ( any questions? ) )
Deaths: 1,036 ( + 252 )
Recovered:  428 ( + 49 )

This is not looking good for the U.S.  

Congress Races to Pass $2 Trillion Aid Bill as Virus Shakes Society

The Senate approved a bill that promises a $1,200 payout to millions of Americans, increases jobless aid and creates a business bailout fund. Hospitals in New York and New Orleans struggle to cope as demand surges. The death toll in Spain passes 4,000.

Unemployment numbers in America are expected to soar when government data is released today.

[ . . . ]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/world/coronavirus-news.html

Coronavirus checks, direct deposits are coming. Here's everything you need to know.

Who qualifies? How much is being sent? When? How will I get the money? Questions and answers.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/coronavirus-checks-direct-deposits-are-coming-here-s-everything-you-n1168936

Can You Become Immune to the Coronavirus?
It’s likely you can, at least for some period of time. That is opening new opportunities for testing and treatment.

As the number of people infected with the coronavirus surpasses 450,000 worldwide, and more than one billion are locked in their homes, scientists are wrestling with one of the most pressing questions of the pandemic: Do people who survive the infection become immune to the virus?

The answer is a qualified yes, with some significant unknowns. That’s important for several reasons.

[ . . . ]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/health/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.html

Stay safe and healthy, DUPeeps.

Ahavati
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runaway-mindtrain said:The 1400 page pork addendum from Democrats Chuck and Nancy and two downvotes to stop the measure while the same media pushes the panic button  ....Were also factors in our problems, to be complete with info...

Do you really want to go there. . .

hemihead said:My country’s government response; immediate all stop country wide lock down for minimum of four weeks. Immediate standard payment of $585/week per working aged person not already on a benefit, if employer applies for it....no cap, no questions, no eligibility test. Figure being reviewed and may well be increased within 72 hours after feedback from social services minister. All existing benefits (sickness, widows, low wage earners, disability etc) all remain unchanged. Low risk prisoners released (prisons are very high outbreak risk). Freeze on rent rises. Immediate mortgage support for people who can’t pay mortgages. Immediate tax cuts to business. Immediate full border shutdown except nationals returning. Immediate visas extension and full free medical treatment to all foreigners caught here, to match the rights of citizens. Test and track system in place. Update live from health minister every 24 hours. Stimulus package agreed and in place, with complete focus on the issue at hand and full agreement across all sides of house. Civil emergency declared to mobilise reserve medical equipment and direct industry to essential services support. Election later this year will go ahead as planned. Two referendums (legalising cannabis and euthanisia) will go to seperate vote as planned. Government will act only on the advice of health experts, and all other considerations are secondary. Schools closed. Prime Minister answered questions from public on Facebook live from her house after putting her toddler to bed. She was honest, clear, direct and frank. We will all go our part, as a sensible democratic nation facing a global pandemic.

Are your leaders working for you?

Remember it at the poles.

(The police asked criminals to stop committing crime due to the serious situation....and they bloody have!)

I am in the top 0.5% of salaried workers. I pay 22% income tax on anything under about $100k per year, and 30% on income above that.

All businesses pay tax at 15%.

I get free healthcare, but pay a levy due to my income to allow me to go private, as the logic is I can afford it and it reduces strain on lower wage earners.

The police are well paid and heavily policed themselves.

My education to 18 was free. My honours degree in civil engineering cost me $4000 dollars and I was paid a student living allowance the whole time. A degree will now cost you around $20 000 and can be defaulted on for no penalty under hardship assessment. It is only repayable once you are earning above a threshold, and is taken from you in your pay check at around 2% per year...more if you earn more.

Nobody can sue anyone.

If I have an accident the country pays all my rehab and 80% of my salary until I can work again.

Abortion is legal.

Gay marriage is legal.

We have the second lowest corruption rate in the world.

We are in the process of negotiating to fully compensate our indigenous people for fucking them over, and their language is our official language along with English and sign language.

70% of our coastline will soon be marine reserves to protect our marine industry and cultural heritage,

This country is far far from perfect, but when we see what others are prepared to accept as leadership we feel pretty good.

Whakataka te hau ki te uru,
Whakataka te hau ki te tonga.
Kia mākinakina ki uta,
Kia mātaratara ki tai.
E hī ake ana te atākura he tio,
he huka, he hauhunga.
Haumi e! Hui e! Tāiki e!

Kia Kaha.

https://youtu.be/k_86SmJOeG8

(Warriors issuing a challenge to government officials coming on to their land to sign a settlement deal. This challenge is very real. They are saying to the government people “if you come here to tell lies or bring conflict, we will crush your f#cking heads and bury you in our cooking fires”...give them a minute to really start winding up)

Vote.


Braggart.  Not yourself, you're country.  You may know one of my oldest friends, she moved to Auckland ( from somewhere in New Zealand I can't remember ) a few years ago, and manages the Eastern Refuge Society. Been trying to get me there to work for almost two decades.  

Commentonly said:Does anyone else think China should have any accountability for this or did it rush bye too quick, it’s easy to play a blame game especially with how humans are wired?

Yes, to a degree.  Especially regarding the doctors who tried to warn them and were silenced ( and now dead ).  But then so should America, who was briefed back in January.  So should every country who didn't take this seriously.

No, who wasn't prepared for something like this by learning from history that it could happen.  

summultima
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Commentonly said:Does anyone else think China should have any accountability for this or did it rush bye too quick, it’s easy to play a blame game especially with how humans are wired?

China being the epicentre of this outbreak, needs more accountability from it on below lines:

Now that we talk of epidemic/ pandemic/ Flattening the curve/  Reproduction Number R0/ Herd Immunity... all that goes hand in hand for definition of an epidemic/ pandemic that this COVID 19  is  & has been declared by WHO...

And but,seeing it as "the great Chinese puzzle".. there's something amiss in the actual ground data from CHINA  that is required now..  w.r.t. the actual  rate of Infections & when it actually noted patient zero.. for the alert & control & cure.. now that precious time had already been lost...


"Why are the data missing? Has the world at large and WHO particularly missed a massive elephant in China? For infection rate to decline, the proportion of immune, hence non-susceptible people among the whole population should be fairly high. We define herd immunity as the proportion immune in the population and herd effect as the reduction of infection incidence in the non-immune segment of the population on account of the high herd immunity slowing down the circulation of the virus. To determine how large the COVID-19 epidemic was in China is information that we need urgently. The only way to get it is by careful antibody prevalence surveys, which we hope WHO will be demanding from China.

China claimed success in interrupting transmission because Hubei province was under lockdown fairly early in the course of the epidemic, and China also imposed travel restrictions on other provinces. Is its claim credible? What if the epidemic had actually started, say, in August?
"

the above quoted are excerpts from this recent decent analysis by virologists:
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/covid-19-and-the-great-chinese-puzzle/article31167412.ece



another leading epoidemiologist has straight-talk on these same: herd immunity/ social distancing/ R0,  esp. in context to the present 21 day huge lockdown in Indian subcontinent:
https://www.bloombergquint.com/coronavirus-outbreak/coronavirus-outbreak-its-a-long-road-to-normal-says-leading-epidemiologist-j-muliyil



agrees to Ahavati...China's  brutal act of  silencing of the first physician who alerted on the seriosity of this virus at a v.early stage costs the whole world now..

stay safe ppl, light & love these times as ev . whatmore  x:)

Ahavati
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summultima said:

China being the epicentre of this outbreak, needs more accountability from it on below lines:

Now that we talk of epidemic/ pandemic/ Flattening the curve/  Reproduction Number R0/ Herd Immunity... all that goes hand in hand for definition of an epidemic/ pandemic that this COVID 19  is  & has been declared by WHO...

And but,seeing it as "the great Chinese puzzle".. there's something amiss in the actual ground data from CHINA  that is required now..  w.r.t. the actual  rate of Infections & when it actually noted patient zero.. for the alert & control & cure.. now that precious time had already been lost...

"Why are the data missing? Has the world at large and WHO particularly missed a massive elephant in China? For infection rate to decline, the proportion of immune, hence non-susceptible people among the whole population should be fairly high. We define herd immunity as the proportion immune in the population and herd effect as the reduction of infection incidence in the non-immune segment of the population on account of the high herd immunity slowing down the circulation of the virus. To determine how large the COVID-19 epidemic was in China is information that we need urgently. The only way to get it is by careful antibody prevalence surveys, which we hope WHO will be demanding from China.

China claimed success in interrupting transmission because Hubei province was under lockdown fairly early in the course of the epidemic, and China also imposed travel restrictions on other provinces. Is its claim credible? What if the epidemic had actually started, say, in August?
"

the above quoted are excerpts from this recent decent analysis by virologists:
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/covid-19-and-the-great-chinese-puzzle/article31167412.ece

another leading epoidemiologist has straight-talk on these same: herd immunity/ social distancing/ R0,  esp. in context to the present 21 day huge lockdown in Indian subcontinent:
https://www.bloombergquint.com/coronavirus-outbreak/coronavirus-outbreak-its-a-long-road-to-normal-says-leading-epidemiologist-j-muliyil

agrees to Ahavati...China's  brutal act of  silencing of the first physician who alerted on the seriosity of this virus at a v.early stage costs the whole world now..

stay safe ppl, light & love these times as ev . whatmore  x:)


Thank you for the well-wishes, Uma.  Much appreciated.  You stay safe too, my friend. xo

I agree with your conclusion in regards to accountability. When this is over, there should definitely be a reckoning.

I just read this, and I want that arrogant, greed-infested, lying, narcissistic-authoritarian OUT of office.

How America built the best pandemic response system in history – and threw it away

The Trump administration destroyed an infrastructure, built over two decades, that may have been humanity’s most powerful weapon against new diseases.

[ . . . ]
On 8 May 2018, Donald Trump signed Rescission Proposal R18-1, asking the US government to take back $15bn in spending. At the time, coverage of these cuts focussed on the $7bn that would be taken from the Children’s Health Insurance Program. But the 38-page proposal details a swathe of other cuts. Among these was the removal of the remaining $252m budget for International Disaster Assistance that had been committed in 2015 as part of the Ebola response, and the State Department’s $30m Complex Crises Fund. The CDC, in response to previous funding cuts, had already reduced its pandemic preparedness activity in 39 countries. On the day R18-1 was signed, the WHO announced a new outbreak of Ebola in the Democratic Republic of Congo.  

Two days later the newly appointed National Security Advisor, John Bolton, dissolved the Global Health Security team within the NSC. Timothy Ziemer, the most senior White House official in charge of responses to pandemics or bioterrorism, left that day and was not replaced.

The issue with these programmes was not that they were expensive –  the $282m saved on pandemic preparedness by R18-1 represents less than 0.007 per cent of US government spending in 2018 – but that they were connected to the health security agenda, which had been an Obama project.
[ . . . ]

[ To be fair ]
The Trump administration is not solely to blame. Successive administrations have failed to regulate the consolidation of the pharmaceutical industry, which Garrett says has all but disregarded “curative medicine” such as vaccines and the treatment of infectious disease in favour of longer-term therapies with greater market potential. “We had warning in the form of SARS in 2003 and MERS in 2013, signalling to us there is this whole family of viruses called coronaviruses, that we haven’t been taking seriously… we had the warnings, but we don’t have vaccines for either of those. We don’t have effective treatments for either of those.”

The damage done by America’s failure to prepare for or even acknowledge the threat of Covid-19 is only beginning to become apparent. Last week, the US had conducted fewer than 350 tests per million people. On Saturday night, Laurie Garrett recorded the sound of sirens from her home in New York. “The last time I heard this many ambulance sirens piercing the NYC night was 9/11,” she wrote.

[ . . . ]

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2020/03/america-pandemic-response-swine-flu-avian?fbclid=IwAR3AmfA23ewoQCtFZTbLu_7CUREFh8ni_1Vpl3PubbDbeCaljsN_TLU0DTA


This article isn't about politics because it commends Bush.  It's about the stupidity of our current administration.  

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Ahavati said:

This article isn't about politics because it commends Bush.  It's about the stupidity of our current administration.  


Have you ever heard the saying left and right are wings on the same bird?

Ahavati
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EdibleWords said:

Have you ever heard the saying left and right are wings on the same bird?


You mean someone hasn't?

I am so sick of this partisan crap ( despite my comment in regards to Trump ).  While corporations are important to the economical balance, they shouldn't supercede the safety of the people; without the people there would be no corporations ( ironically, they're finding that out now, aren't they? ).  

This should be a wakeup call to all future actions born of decisions from current and administrations to follow that not all military budgeting should focus on armed offense / defense, but preventative and response-oriented health measures to minimize dire outcomes and protect the American citizens from the next pandemic freeing itself from some icecap somewhere on the planet.  

We had that in place, until . . .

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Ahavati said:
And of course the common ground was Love.


Full stop right there Ahavati. One of the best sentences in the thread. ❤️

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