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Corona Virus ( Covid-19 )

Ahavati
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Layla said:Echoeing the facepalm disbelief on crowds gathered from above posts.

I had to draw the line today when i saw a mother shopping for bras with her baby in a carrier.  She had 15 bras and was told she couldn't try them cause for safety reasons the fitting rooms were closed.  She was annoyed and continued to try on her clothes, when told she can purchase and return if she didn't like it, she replied in discontent that she's a nurse and doesn't have the time to shop and she just had a baby.
Talk about a facepalm moment.. A NURSE who knows better about this virus than the public and yet she had her newborn with her shopping for bras, mind you they were regular bras and not nursing bras.

i drew the line and went to HR and put in my 2weeks off.  This is going to get far worse cause of the idiotic people that are not taking this seriously.  Then i heard that the governement is thinking of extending this 'stay at home' order to July cause the public is not staying home.

WTF as if they will stay home!!


Yes; they believe it's being hyped by the media because it hasn't affected them personally yet.

lepperochan said:Person I'm staying with is showing signs of symptoms.  I'm fucked (not proper fucked) , so far so good though in terms of symptoms

Had to go out today, just up to the supermarket for supplies. I got stopped by a police. I told him not to come near me because he'd no mask on, how sm I supposed to know where his face had been.

we argued, he won in that two more police  arrived. they'd no masks either ...I lost any calmness I had

I was ordered home under a public order act.  ..I went to the supermarket, then went home

I don't mind being policed. the three I encountered practiced no social distance nor did they have any protection for them selves or the people they encounter

I really didn't appreciate the danger they put me in.


Is there any way that you could report that, Lepp?  Write a letter of concern or something?  They're endangering lives with that type of behaviour.  

Great photo, btw. I miss those types of streets!

Valeriya
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Layla said:I empathize your concern Mister lepp that the police failed to follow the social distancing recommendations but honestly i wish US police were as tough and diligent.   I've yet to see a cop stop someone during this whole ordeal.  And here in america we will face the fastest growing numbers these coming weeks cause the idiot government was and is hestitant to enforce social distancing in every aspect of the term.

. So sorry to hear that Lepp I hope for the  best for you


Layla
I certainly hope the police don't try to force me to stay in my home it's my choice to isolate because I'm using common sense and wisdom and compassion
Make me stay off the streets? No no no

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Here's the deal Val, you are more than welcome to exercise your right to not stay home, but I for one who has to work in a place that has to stay open and I have to make a living, please stay away from stores like mine, or anywhere there's people.  
Go take a hike somewhere far away from people and you have my blessing to exercise your freedom of not staying home.

Valeriya said:. So sorry to hear that Lepp I hope for the  best for you


Layla
I certainly hope the police don't try to force me to stay in my home it's my choice to isolate because I'm using common sense and wisdom and compassion
Make me stay off the streets? No no no

Ahavati
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Layla said:
Here's the deal Val, you are more than welcome to exercise your right to not stay home, but I for one who has to work in a place that has to stay open and I have to make a living, please stay away from stores like mine, or anywhere there's people.  
Go take a hike somewhere far away from people and you have my blessing to exercise your freedom of not staying home.



And here's the thing about that. . .Covid-19 aerosols can live in the air for 2.7 hours, and on surfaces for up to 72 hours ( depending on the surface ) according to medical research. So, anyone exercising their right in parks or whatever, needs to keep their hands to themselves AND use an appropriate facemask.  

This is how it's spreading so fast. It's airborne.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=229248

Valeriya
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Layla said:
Here's the deal Val, you are more than welcome to exercise your right to not stay home, but I for one who has to work in a place that has to stay open and I have to make a living, please stay away from stores like mine, or anywhere there are people.  
Go take a hike somewhere far away from people and you have my blessing to exercise your freedom of not staying home.



Respect your frank manner Layla I do stay home I haven't left home for I don't even know I lost count 15 days or more I had to go to Las Vegas for my husband's surgery on the 10 of March of all places to go Las Vegas would not be my choice in a pandemic I don't know if I picked up the virus while I was there so I self quarantined and haven't left home I have plenty of food left at least another two weeks One month I had planned on staying home

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Ahavati said:

And here's the thing about that. . .Covid-19 aerosols can live in the air for 2.7 hours, and on surfaces for 7 days according to medical research. So, anyone exercising their right in parks or whatever, needs to keep their hands to themselves AND use an appropriate facemask.  

This is how it's spreading so fast. It's airborne.

Airborne would explain the high transmission rate for sure but I certainly didn't realise the bacteria droplets could stay in the air for 2.7 hours. If that is true then we will have to cover our faces more. I will be wearing my mask more now that you've said that. It still leaves my eyes & ears exposed but I could wear a hat to minimise the contact or transmission further.

poet Anonymous

Ahavati said:

And here's the thing about that. . .Covid-19 aerosols can live in the air for 2.7 hours, and on surfaces for up to 72 hours ( depending on the surface ) according to medical research. So, anyone exercising their right in parks or whatever, needs to keep their hands to themselves AND use an appropriate facemask.  

This is how it's spreading so fast. It's airborne.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=229248


I was hoping he had comeback in to the podcast to update but he hasnít yet because Iíve seen various reports about the airborne nature of this virus as well.

I guess itís novel after all and not in a good way, itís confusing and Iíve seen a few reports now of 16-25 year old deaths as well as infant mortality so has it had another mutation?

The unknowns are what make this so frustrating

hemihead
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Ahavati said:

And here's the thing about that. . .Covid-19 aerosols can live in the air for 2.7 hours, and on surfaces for up to 72 hours ( depending on the surface ) according to medical research. So, anyone exercising their right in parks or whatever, needs to keep their hands to themselves AND use an appropriate facemask.  

This is how it's spreading so fast. It's airborne.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=229248



Just easing up the gas on the airborne bit....the particle size is well known.

WHO current understanding remains that Covid 19 is a larger than air particle, hence maintaining distance works as allows time for particle to fall. They do note opportunities for the virus to become aerosolised, but these are very specific to some medical procedures. They raise this as a potential risk for medical staff doing intubations etc, which would create high pressure/pressure fluctuations....which is often how we create aerosols in industry.


If you are say shaking out bedclothes, or ducting, you might lift a virus particle back up in the hair (talking off a mask is a good example of that)

WHO advisory below. About 48 hours old.


https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations


The New England Medical Journal piece is pretty hilarious. What they are saying is "if you feed the virus in to a machine that makes aerosols, the virus can become an aerosol". That strikes me as fairly f#ckin' obvious!

Ahavati
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hemihead said:


Just easing up the gas on the airborne bit....the particle size is well known.

WHO current understanding remains that Covid 19 is a larger than air particle, hence maintaining distance works as allows time for particle to fall. They do note opportunities for the virus to become aerosolised, but these are very specific to some medical procedures. They raise this as a potential risk for medical staff doing intubations etc, which would create high pressure/pressure fluctuations....which is often how we create aerosols in industry.


If you are say shaking out bedclothes, or ducting, you might lift a virus particle back up in the hair (talking off a mask is a good example of that)

WHO advisory below. About 48 hours old.


https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations


Did you read the medical study in the link I provided?  It's my understanding they proved ( and explained how ) it aeresolized for 2.7 hours. So, to me the 6ft recommended radius would seem null if that's the case.  If it can aeresolize  for almost 3 hours, then someone visiting the same space 2 hours later could potentially be at risk.  

I'm certainly not attempting to start a panic, I'm just trying to understand the study I read.  

hemihead
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WHO advisory is specifically clear that the reporting in recent days that Covid 19 can be an aerosol should not have been interpreted the way it was in media outlets, which is what medicinenet are and have done.

It can be an aerosol, but only under very specific conditions that a person out walking is highly unlikely to encounter. The researchers set out to aerosolise covid 19, and confirmed once they had done that it could remain in suspension....itís kind an obvious result but does not represent a normal transmission mode.

Standing downwind a few metres from someone sneezing on a windy day might be a tactical error.

Lucky for me Iím a sailor....we always overtake to windward :-)

Layla
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I'm sorry to hear about your husband and the possibility that you may have caught the virus.  And i"m glad to hear you have take the cautionary measures.
The word freedom is so misunderstood especially in our country of Us of A, to have freedom to some degree since there's no such thing as absolute freedom one must exercise some discipline and most often freedom has a price, cost and at the moment freedom is very expensive we are paying with lives and for many years to come the ripple effect of the economy.  So either we all agree to respect our futue rights of 'freedom' by exercising control and disipline of staying home, social distancing by curbing this virus before it turns our world more of upside down or that freedom we praise so highly will be something we'll read in once upon a time history books.
Stay safe, stay healthy and hope your husband recovers.

Valeriya said:

Respect your frank manner Layla I do stay home I haven't left home for I don't even know I lost count 15 days or more I had to go to Las Vegas for my husband's surgery on the 10 of March of all places to go Las Vegas would not be my choice in a pandemic I don't know if I picked up the virus while I was there so I self quarantined and haven't left home I have plenty of food left at least another two weeks One month I had planned on staying home

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Ahavati said:

Did you read the medical study in the link I provided?  It's my understanding they proved ( and explained how ) it aerosolized for 2.7 hours. So, to me, the 6ft recommended radius would seem null if that's the case.  If it can aerosolize for almost 3 hours, then someone visiting the same space 2 hours later could potentially be at risk.  

I'm certainly not attempting to start a panic, I'm just trying to understand the study I read.  


When a high volume toilet is flushed say a commercial type toilet like at big box stores as opposed to the toilet in your home the germs become aerosolized from the pressure of the flush and the spray.  If you turn the lav on high in a public place to wash your hands if there is not a pressure compensator on the faucet high volumes of water will cause it to aerosolize as it hits the sink. hence into your face. A car wash has aerosolized particles of water The grocery store that has the sprayers on their produce that is aerosolized Water does not neutralize it keeps it intact
Only aggressive washing with soap will   attempt to break the chain attached to the protein that will allow it to fall away becoming less of a threat
Put your mask in the microwave on surge power 5 sec 10 sec 5 sec
Use a tiny amount of bleach with water in spray bottle wet the mask put it in microwave NOT THE ONES WITH METAL NOSE PIECE

Ahavati
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hemihead said:WHO advisory is specifically clear that the reporting in recent days that Covid 19 can be an aerosol should not have been interpreted the way it was in media outlets, which is what medicinenet are and have done.

It can be an aerosol, but only under very specific conditions that a person out walking is highly likely to encounter. The researchers set out to aerosolise covid 19, and confirmed once they had done that it could remain in suspension....itís kind an obvious result but does not represent a normal transmission mode.

Standing downwind a few metres from someone sneezing on a windy day might be a tactical error.

Lucky for me Iím a sailor....we always overtake to windward :-)


In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported. 8

8. Ong SW, Tan YK, Chia PY, Lee TH, Ng OT, Wong MS, et al. Air, surface environmental, and personal protective equipment contamination by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) from a symptomatic patient. JAMA. 2020 Mar 4 [Epub ahead of print].

Many of those reference links were dated much earlier than the article itself ( which I can understand to a degree ).  

In the article I posted, they used nebulizers ( which would lead the reader to believe they were simple ones such as asthmatics use), which would resemble a human cough.  The experiments drew the accolades of Dr. Andrew Pekosz, adding further validity to them.

Andrew Pekosz, PhD, codirector of the Center of Excellence in Influenza Research and Surveillance and director of the Center for Emerging Viruses and Infectious Diseases at the Johns Hopkins Center for Global Health, Baltimore, Maryland, applauds the real-world value of the experiments.

Yet the link you posted referred to the nebulizers as

a three-jet Collison nebulizer and fed into a Goldberg drum under controlled laboratory conditions. This is a high-powered machine that does not reflect normal human cough conditions. Further, the finding of COVID-19 virus in aerosol particles up to 3 hours does not reflect a clinical setting in which aerosol-generating procedures are performedóthat is, this was an experimentally induced aerosol-generating procedure.

While I respect WHO as an authority in Covid-19 information and research, I also respect Andrew Pekosz.  It's a bit confusing, so I'd rather take my chances with the 2.7 hours ( though I do not want to publicly repeat such if not the case ).    

hemihead
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You roll your dice and take your chances. I donít want people to focus on aerosols and take their minds off distancing and hand washing.

Add the extra layer if you feel the need.

Ahavati
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hemihead said:You roll your dice and take your chances. I donít want people to focus on aerosols and take their minds off distancing and hand washing.

Add the extra layer if you feel the need.


The codirector of the Center of Excellence in Influenza Research and Surveillance and director of the Center for Emerging Viruses and Infectious Diseases at the Johns Hopkins Center for Global Health, I would assume knows his shit.

Certainly aerosols don't negate handwashing ( as the link I provided also studied how long Covid-19 can live on surfaces ), but adds that extra layer of protection?  

I think it might be unwise to completely dismiss it at this point.  Even WHO says there is a possibility of aerosols, but more study is needed. It wasn't that long ago that initial reports claimed it lived for hours on surfaces; now it's days.

That's the frustrating thing about Covid-19, so much is unknown. . .

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