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Corona Virus ( Covid-19 )

hemihead
hemihead
hemi
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I like to know where information is coming from. Offguardian rates very low for quality reporting, often linking to “outright conspiracies and quackery”. See link below for where quote came from.

You have to decide for yourself who you are prepared to let inform your opinions. It should be a very high bar. A couple of pages ago Noam Chomsky was added, and then straight after that a guy endorsed by Deepak Chopra. Chomsky has real concerns about abuse of power in times of crisis based on an entire life studying and working in that field (along with linguistics). When Noam says something I find challenging he has earned the right to be heard out.

The other guy was a straight out con man. His opinion is worth nothing. Anyone who weighs the two the same has shown they have not learned to apply some basic filters to what they let inform their world view.

Those choices of what information you cite inform how others will measure the weight of your own arguments.

If you would like to be credible, bring credible information. There are such sources available. I have seen good articles raising issues about the true infection and mortality rates, since testing rates are uncertain. If that is your point, find it and bring it, with your own opinion formed, and discuss it. I will engage with discussion.

If you have concerns about abuse of power in times of crisis, listen to what Chomsky has to say, find some critique on his opinions, bring it with your own opinion, and would be happy to discuss.

You have yet to bring anything I personally would care to discuss, in something like 80 pages, because you cite low quality sources and have not read any counter arguments to your counter arguments. It’s lazy and uninteresting.

https://www.google.amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/%3famp

Ahavati
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Well said, Hemi.

MadameLavender
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Just another heads up, folks—opinions always welcome , but not when they come in the form of personal attacks and name calling.  That’s what will get your account a quarrantine from DUP , and it’s not “censorship “ , it’s corrective action for going against website policy and rules of conduct .  Act like adults toward your fellow community members here.

Ahavati
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Thank you, MadameL. Much appreciated.  

Carpe_Noctem
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hemihead said:I like to know where information is coming from. Offguardian rates very low for quality reporting, often linking to “outright conspiracies and quackery”. See link below for where quote came from.

You have to decide for yourself who you are prepared to let inform your opinions. It should be a very high bar. A couple of pages ago Noam Chomsky was added, and then straight after that a guy endorsed by Deepak Chopra. Chomsky has real concerns about abuse of power in times of crisis based on an entire life studying and working in that field (along with linguistics). When Noam says something I find challenging he has earned the right to be heard out.

The other guy was a straight out con man. His opinion is worth nothing. Anyone who weighs the two the same has shown they have not learned to apply some basic filters to what they let inform their world view.

Those choices of what information you cite inform how others will measure the weight of your own arguments.

If you would like to be credible, bring credible information. There are such sources available. I have seen good articles raising issues about the true infection and mortality rates, since testing rates are uncertain. If that is your point, find it and bring it, with your own opinion formed, and discuss it. I will engage with discussion.

If you have concerns about abuse of power in times of crisis, listen to what Chomsky has to say, find some critique on his opinions, bring it with your own opinion, and would be happy to discuss.

You have yet to bring anything I personally would care to discuss, in something like 80 pages, because you cite low quality sources and have not read any counter arguments to your counter arguments. It’s lazy and uninteresting.

https://www.google.amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/%3famp



A nationwide state of emergency was declared on Wednesday, giving police wide ranging powers. Under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act, police can enter any premises under the belief it would save lives or prevent injury.

"If we suspect there are gatherings inside places, we're enabled to go in there. We'll do everything we can to make sure people comply," Bush said.

He said police would be monitoring activity around the country, and would "deploy" to areas that showed increased activity. There were several hundred soldiers ready to assist police with foot patrols, if required

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120577868/coronavirus-police-can-now-enter-homes-to-look-for-people-gathering
Seems rather draconian

The thing is Hemi most of those facts posted here come from mainstream propoganda sources. Are you aware the Internet is heavily regulated censored and filtered.
So those low quality sources you site are exactly deemed by the search engine.

Why the social distancing? For our protection or theirs? If so for our protection, why no social isolating during previous flu out breaks.

These measures being enforced on us are draconian, totalitarian and I would also put falls under the category of cruel and unusual punishment.

Now this play is straight out of sun tzu I do believe.
Isolate a population, devide them, deprive them of their lively hood and inundate them with propoganda.

Well that's the new norm now isn't it.

Who do I put my trust in. Known liars pushing propoganda, or the concerned citizen journalists of all the countries investigating this?

Ahavati
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Layla said:

I think the 'stay at home' order should have been tougher right at the start.  People didn't take it seriously and they still don't and I"m afraid the numbers will rise rather quickly in US in the following weeks.


I agree, Layla.

Ahavati
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This impressive new tool from IHME and will help hospitals, policymakers, and the general public better understand and prepare for the #COVID19 response in the U.S.

The charts below show projected hospital resource use based on COVID-19 deaths.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections?linkId=85347308

Ahavati
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JohnnyBlaze
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Ahavati said:This is fantastic!

101-Year-Old Spanish Flu and World War 2 Survivor Has Now Beat COVID-19 As Well

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25142/20200328/101-year-old-spanish-flu-and-world-war-2-survivor-has-now-beat-covid-19-as-well.htm?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


Now that is encouraging! They should be studying him under a microscope.

Ahavati
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JohnnyBlaze said:

Now that is encouraging! They should be studying him under a microscope.


I'm sure they did!

Where does your state stand?

Here is an overall graph, and one for each state at the bottom visualizing where the U.S. stands on testing:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/26/us/coronavirus-testing-states.html

Carpe_Noctem
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

Written by Dr John Lee retired professor of pathology and NHS consultant pathologist

EdibleWords
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Sky_dancer said:Gulag/concentration camp/medical facility

hemi, please, open those beautiful eyes man. People ARE going to die. A lot, but not because of a virus.


This.

I don't want to lose my humanity looking at either side of this situation. I don't feel I have to disrespect the dead/dying/at risk to care if con artists are in the pie... (or our underwear) again.

Let's obey the emergency directives unless they actually try to shoo us into cattle cars... and stay off the ventilator.

If i need a ventilator, i think i will pass. Pun intended after the fact!

Ahavati
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EdibleWords said:

This.

I don't want to lose my humanity looking at either side of this situation. I don't feel I have to disrespect the dead/dying/at risk to care if con artists are in the pie... (or our underwear) again.

Let's obey the emergency directives unless they actually try to shoo us into cattle cars... and stay off the ventilator.

If i need a ventilator, i think i will pass. Pun intended after the fact!


Bravo and well-said.

In the meantime, your favorite Dr. Birx has a prediction of her own:

Dr. Birx predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths 'if we do things almost perfectly'

Birx said the projections by Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. deaths could range from 1.6 million to 2.2 million is a worst case scenario if the country did "nothing" to contain the outbreak, but said even "if we do things almost perfectly," she still predicts up to 200,000 U.S. deaths.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dr-deborah-birx-predicts-200-000-deaths-if-we-do-n1171876?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR0iMW6Ia3_nfk2cTABNyTTCVRr-gTAYuR_gJEF5hfkOaMKHG7Yj-ogUbBE



EdibleWords
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Ahavati said:



Great point! They are building whole hospitals very fast, thankfully.

I think we need a scientifically revolutionary angle on treatment. Half of ventilated people die...

hemihead
hemihead
hemi
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Carpe_Noctem said:https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

Written by Dr John Lee retired professor of pathology and NHS consultant pathologist


Well done. This article is balanced and reasonable, and lays out an interesting counter- balance.

As a pathologist he is more credible than a layman.

The newspaper is a not a great teller of truth, but in this case the quality of the argument makes that less important.

It is obvious that the more you test the more you’ll find, and that there is also risk of over assigning causes of death. It is also obvious these will alter apparent mortality rates. What is most obvious of all is that the data is not clear enough right now, leading to confusion in non-standardised testing and controls.

I personally am happy with governments acting strongly in the face of uncertainty to protect citizens. If it turns out the science was wrong about mortality then we’ll soon find out.

What is most obvious is the dead bodies in such a short space of time. The spike in load on healthcare facilities is demonstrable, and the bodies in freezer trucks is too (see Italy now, New York in 10 days)

We do not stack bodies in freezer trucks for the flu.

Note that your comments on previous outbreaks and social distancing are not correct. It was used very successfully in the Spanish flu epidemic. Forbes article here. There are papers available online for a more considered examination, but this is an easy read.

www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2020/03/29/can-social-distancing-really-stop-coronavirus-look-to-the-spanish-flu-pandemic-for-answers-expert-says/amp/

Tsun tzu or a student thereof would not apply or approve of such methods of brute force population control. Your concerns are far more in the style of Machiavelli, who would certainly see this as a time to impose control. This is being done, with US leadership using this strategy for the last three years; create drama in the media, while in the background quietly dismantling entire government sectors, like for instance the infectious disease response people.

Keep looking for those. Would be interested to hear of them. The new internet censorship attempts, as well as stripping ancestral lands off First Nations peoples are two that are on my radar.

Other fascist-leaning governments will be doing the same things.

Re the Nz government and entering homes....we have our share of dickheads, like anywhere. A whole bunch of foreign backpackers had a party of 60 people the other day, and then there are some religious cults (provable description) attempting to ignore it as well. We like our police (could write a book of caveats on that statement) and the general consensus is “get in there son and sort those dickheads out”.

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