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Corona Virus ( Covid-19 )

Sky_dancer
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the5thRiddler
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I get paid working from home. But I’m showing no proof, you’re just gonna have to believe it as fact, because I said it.

Carpe_Noctem
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Anonymous said:<< post removed >>

Rick James ashes

Billy_Snagg
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Sky_dancer said:

It didn't go too well for Zod if I remember correctly ;D


Ha ha, that's true!

Ahavati
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This is amazing! I really enjoy Hashem Al-Ghaili's videos. He has a youtube but hasn't uploaded in four days.  You won't be able to watch this if you don't have a facebook account. Well, until he uploads it, anyway.

E74 - COVID-19: Engineers are helping reduce the shortage of ventilators

https://www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/videos/656535788465290/


Layla
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In my town today it was reported that a nursing home had 10 employees, 7 residents tested positive for cover-19 and 2 are dead.
So makes me wonder how those nursing home residents got the virus!
Which comes back to the fact that those workers/nurses or visitors who had access going out, shopping etc brought the virus in to the nursing home.  
Cause otherwise how those bedridden, wheelchair ridden paitents got it?!

So I will say it again and again, and again...as one that deals with the public on daily basis, STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!

hemihead
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Layla said:In my town today it was reported that a nursing home had 10 employees, 7 residents tested positive for cover-19 and 2 are dead.
So makes me wonder how those nursing home residents got the virus!
Which comes back to the fact that those workers/nurses or visitors who had access going out, shopping etc brought the virus in to the nursing home.  
Cause otherwise how those bedridden, wheelchair ridden paitents got it?!

So I will say it again and again, and again...as one that deals with the public on daily basis, STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!


Prisons and rest homes do very poorly in outbreaks. Historically prisons have been horrific, going back as far as history records it.

Rest homes have visitors, staff, medical people, good deliveries etc etc etc, with a grouped set of high risk people. That’s a fairly obvious recipe for bad outcomes.

the5thRiddler
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I’m so enlightened by certain comments on this thread. Learn something new everyday.

Josh
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(1).People don’t die OF the corona-virus, but WITH the corona-virus combined with other things. There is a huge difference. "There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes" (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think)

(2).Remember the 2017-18 major flu epidemic? Hmmm, probably not … because it was hardly in the media.
“The 2017–2018 flu season was severe for all US populations and resulted in an estimated 959,000 hospitalizations and 61,099 deaths” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_States_flu_season )
So, that’s 61,099 died of flu in 2017-18 in the USA compared to 1,704 so far with Covid-19 so far.
Normal shit was happening in 2017-18 but the media didn’t throw it big-time into the fan, like they’re doing now, thereby creating the current hysteria & political clampdown.

(3).People are controlled by symbols, imagery and language - inducing not least the nocebo effect (opposite of placebo effect). If you believe you have a “killer virus”, your body-mind-immune-system will cope less well than if you believe you just have a “nasty flu bug”. If in addition one’s mind is filled with iconic images of coffins, masked hospital staff, people on ventilators, plus the isolating experience of lockdown, etc, so much the stronger will be the nocebo effect. Media hysteria plays a large part here creating fear. Fear produces an acid environment in the body, a state in which all diseases thrive. People can die from amplified subjective panic beliefs (extreme nocebo effect), even when those same beliefs are to others complete nonsense. (Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning” concerning holocaust survivors).

(4).We live in a culture where the conditioned response to problems is to reduce complex issues to ‘single causes’; this enables the familiar ‘war narrative’ to be rolled out to justify increased authoritarianism. (ie: the Media shout about ‘The One Cause’, science measures something to give it white-coat official street-cred, ‘the cause’ is attacked, appeals are made to the general population for some ‘now-let’s-all-pull-together’ sacrifices in the face of “the enemy”). It might make people feel comfortable to name and blame as a focus to “feel good by doing something”, but what is habitually comfortable is not always helpful or true. No-one is talking much about the vital role of maintaining a healthy immune system (eg: questioning junk-food diets).

(5).The media has been drip-feeding society with anxiety for decades. When suitably primed with sufficient fear, a ‘big people-control event’ is staged to twist the trauma knife (eg: a war, a recession, 9/11, Corona-hype). Few can accept that governments regularly and brazenly commit huge acts of treason against their own general populations (“surely they wouldn’t lie/exaggerate on an issue this big” … Oh yes they would, and that’s the whole point). The sudden over-hyping of corona-virus one of these. It serves a certain agenda. (read Orwell’s 1984 … ‘come any event, the dominant powers adopt the narrative that best maintains the powers’ continued dominance’).

(6).Contrary to popular opinion, governments were not invented to provide a buffer between the masses and tyrannical kings/emperors/pharaohs, but to carry out the will of tyrants whilst at the same time doing their best to make it look as if they’re carrying out the will of the people. This is basics. People who expect real change from ‘the next election’ are doing the same as a woman returning for the 50th time to an abusive husband who promises never to beat her up again.

(7).People sometimes catch pneumonia in hospitals (a breeding ground for bugs), which tips them over the edge. Crowded hospitals under stress even more so (see point-1).

(8).People die all the time, especially from starvation (approx 35,000/day {https://www.worldometers.info/} - I don’t remember much global panic being made about that recently in the media. Why?

(9).Suddenly $trillions are conjured up out of nowhere (part of the tried-and-tested strategy of Problem-Reaction-Solution). These $trillions are poured in at the top, especially to cronies and corporate weapons-makers. This is what Covid-19 hype is all about; asymmetrically rejigging the global economy.

(10).Apart from boosting your immune system with vitamin C & D, + healthy food, the best you can do is focus on writing new poetry. NaPo 2020 starts on April 1st. You have 48 hours to sign up.  



Ahavati
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Layla said:In my town today it was reported that a nursing home had 10 employees, 7 residents tested positive for cover-19 and 2 are dead.
So makes me wonder how those nursing home residents got the virus!
Which comes back to the fact that those workers/nurses or visitors who had access going out, shopping etc brought the virus in to the nursing home.  
Cause otherwise how those bedridden, wheelchair ridden paitents got it?!

So I will say it again and again, and again...as one that deals with the public on daily basis, STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!


The cases here have doubled in just a matter of days, Layla.  Our lockdown didn't start until Friday.  I will be so glad when this is over.  

Josh said:

(10).Apart from boosting your immune system with vitamin C & D, + healthy food, the best you can do is focus on writing new poetry. NaPo 2020 starts on April 1st. You have 48 hours to sign up.  


Okay, that made me lol!

lepperochan
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Alright this is not about censorship. you can take your opinions to another thread once they're not attacks on other members or institutions of this great site. attacks will result in sanctions


you are all poets. you are all human. we are all in trouble

dont be a dick(ess)





Billy_Snagg
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Josh said:

Hmmm, thank you for the unexpected invitation - yes, I do:

(1).People don’t die OF the corona-virus, but WITH the corona-virus combined with other things. There is a huge difference.

(2).Remember the 2017-18 major flu epidemic? Hmmm, probably not … because it was hardly in the media.
“The 2017–2018 flu season was severe for all US populations and resulted in an estimated 959,000 hospitalizations and 61,099 deaths” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_States_flu_season )
So, that’s 61,099 died of flu in 2017-18 in the USA compared to 1,704 so far with Covid-19 so far.
Normal shit was happening in 2017-18 but the media didn’t throw it big-time into the fan, like they’re doing now, thereby creating the current hysteria & political clampdown.

(3).People are controlled by symbols, imagery and language - inducing not least the nocebo effect (opposite of placebo effect). If you believe you have a “killer virus”, your body-mind-immune-system will cope less well than if you believe you just have a “nasty flu bug”. If in addition one’s mind is filled with iconic images of coffins, masked hospital staff, people on ventilators, plus the isolating experience of lockdown, etc, so much the stronger will be the nocebo effect. Media hysteria plays a large part here creating fear. Fear produces an acid environment in the body, a state in which all diseases thrive. People can die from amplified subjective panic beliefs (extreme nocebo effect), even when those same beliefs are to others complete nonsense. (Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning” concerning holocaust survivors).

(4).We live in a culture where the conditioned response to problems is to reduce complex issues to ‘single causes’; this enables the familiar ‘war narrative’ to be rolled out to justify increased authoritarianism. (ie: the Media shout about ‘The One Cause’, science measures something to give it white-coat official street-cred, ‘the cause’ is attacked, appeals are made to the general population for some ‘now-let’s-all-pull-together’ sacrifices in the face of “the enemy”). It might make people feel comfortable to name and blame as a focus to “feel good by doing something”, but what is habitually comfortable is not always helpful or true. No-one is talking much about the vital role of maintaining a healthy immune system (eg: questioning junk-food diets).

(5).The media has been drip-feeding society with anxiety for decades. When suitably primed with sufficient fear, a ‘big people-control event’ is staged to twist the trauma knife (eg: a war, a recession, 9/11, Corona-hype). Few can accept that governments regularly and brazenly commit huge acts of treason against their own general populations (“surely they wouldn’t lie/exaggerate on an issue this big” … Oh yes they would, and that’s the whole point). The sudden over-hyping of corona-virus one of these. It serves a certain agenda. (read Orwell’s 1984 … ‘come any event, the dominant powers adopt the narrative that best maintains the powers’ continued dominance’).

(6).Contrary to popular opinion, governments were not invented to provide a buffer between the masses and tyrannical kings/emperors/pharaohs, but to carry out the will of tyrants whilst at the same time doing their best to make it look as if they’re carrying out the will of the people. This is basics. People who expect real change from ‘the next election’ are doing the same as a woman returning for the 50th time to an abusive husband who promises never to beat her up again.

(7).People sometimes catch pneumonia in hospitals (a breeding ground for bugs), which tips them over the edge. Crowded hospitals under stress even more so (see point-1).

(8).People die all the time, especially from starvation (approx 35,000/day {https://www.worldometers.info/} - I don’t remember much global panic being made about that recently in the media. Why?

(9).Suddenly $trillions are conjured up out of nowhere (part of the tried-and-tested strategy of Problem-Reaction-Solution). These $trillions are poured in at the top, especially to cronies and corporate weapons-makers. This is what Covid-19 hype is all about; asymmetrically rejigging the global economy.

(10).Apart from boosting your immune system with vitamin C & D, + healthy food, the best you can do is focus on writing new poetry. NaPo 2020 starts on April 1st. You have 48 hours to sign up.  



Josh, I hear what you're saying. For example, I keep hearing that flu kills 650,000 a year in Britain but it doesn't overrun our National Health Service. You talk of media hysteria but that's only because you & I are not victims yet. THERE MUST BE A REASON FOR this global lockdown. I'm guessing that this COVID-19 is both more deadly & more contagious than flu. Please don't tell us not to panic. I find that insulting. If we can find a happy medium between panic & what you're eluding to, then we may find that balance.
Just saying, mate. I'm your buddy too.

hemihead
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Josh said:

Hmmm, thank you for the unexpected invitation - yes, I do:

(1).People don’t die OF the corona-virus, but WITH the corona-virus combined with other things. There is a huge difference.

(2).Remember the 2017-18 major flu epidemic? Hmmm, probably not … because it was hardly in the media.
“The 2017–2018 flu season was severe for all US populations and resulted in an estimated 959,000 hospitalizations and 61,099 deaths” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_States_flu_season )
So, that’s 61,099 died of flu in 2017-18 in the USA compared to 1,704 so far with Covid-19 so far.
Normal shit was happening in 2017-18 but the media didn’t throw it big-time into the fan, like they’re doing now, thereby creating the current hysteria & political clampdown.

(3).People are controlled by symbols, imagery and language - inducing not least the nocebo effect (opposite of placebo effect). If you believe you have a “killer virus”, your body-mind-immune-system will cope less well than if you believe you just have a “nasty flu bug”. If in addition one’s mind is filled with iconic images of coffins, masked hospital staff, people on ventilators, plus the isolating experience of lockdown, etc, so much the stronger will be the nocebo effect. Media hysteria plays a large part here creating fear. Fear produces an acid environment in the body, a state in which all diseases thrive. People can die from amplified subjective panic beliefs (extreme nocebo effect), even when those same beliefs are to others complete nonsense. (Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning” concerning holocaust survivors).

(4).We live in a culture where the conditioned response to problems is to reduce complex issues to ‘single causes’; this enables the familiar ‘war narrative’ to be rolled out to justify increased authoritarianism. (ie: the Media shout about ‘The One Cause’, science measures something to give it white-coat official street-cred, ‘the cause’ is attacked, appeals are made to the general population for some ‘now-let’s-all-pull-together’ sacrifices in the face of “the enemy”). It might make people feel comfortable to name and blame as a focus to “feel good by doing something”, but what is habitually comfortable is not always helpful or true. No-one is talking much about the vital role of maintaining a healthy immune system (eg: questioning junk-food diets)........





Item 1: not correct. They die of the symptoms of the illness, such as pneumonia. Underlying conditions raise the overall stress on their immune system, raising the risk of bad outcomes.

Item 2: 70 000 people dead in the US each year from flu, with the capacity to treat many many more who's lives are saved, is the happy medium you as a society have decided to accept. All countries do this maths. A farmer does this maths with their livestock. Covid 19, unchecked, at a 4% morality rate, will kill more than 20 MILLION Americans. 20 Million. This is not the flu.

Item 3: the placebo effect will certainly be working both positively and negatively in regard to personal health outcomes. I myself have seen a man "lie down to die", because he believed he was going to, and did! The placebo affect hasn't threatened to kill 20 million people anywhere I've ever read.

Item 4: The World Health Organisations guidelines talk about the importance of healthy eating, exercise, and mental wellbeing to support your immune system. My own country continually reiterates these same messages. The information is available if you seek it. Can help with some resources if you would like

Item 5: there are clearly moves by right wing and fascist leaning governments to use this time to their advantage. The fascist leaning US leader has used the time to remove the land rights of a first nation people just today. You must remain alive to these concerns. Activists the world over are working hard on how to act while in societal lock-down. This too will bring change.

Item 6: Political observation. It is well documented that pandemics are linked to times of political upheaval and civil unrest. It is quite reasonable to assume this will also be the case this time. Not all governments are the same. My own country has no national fear of the government, and has strong leadership focused on the science. We are in good hands, and if we aren't we will change the hands. You must make your own judgement about your own government, and remember it when it is to to speak/act/debate.

Item 7: Yes. The risk to health services is what has led to governments acting so strongly and quickly. It has been seen in Italy that many many more people die once health services are overwhelmed.

Item 8: The stunning work of many thousands if people in the last 60 years in managing famine is without precedent in human history. You might look back over this thread to about page 35 where I provided the statistics on world health among the poorest and our terrific work in this area. Further, these most vulnerable people will die at much higher rates with Covid 19 in their environment. The US homeless population will experience the same thing. The news on famines is constantly in the news, with reports published by the dozens each month on what is happening. The fact that where a person chooses to get their news does not show them this is also a reason to ask about your own news consumption choices. Both Al Jazerra and BBC news carry regular famine updates.
Item 9: Yes. It is not for me to make comment on, but the ability to produce $2T dollars to provide for industry and business when even the government department that was in charge of infectious disease control couldn’t get money a few months ago does seem pretty shit. Keep thinking about the interests of your leaders

Item 10: The experts in the field of infectious diseases are presenting data that clearly shows there is no hype. How governments respond to it may have elements of hype, or power grabbing, but the organism itself, with a roughly 4% death rate (around 30 times more than flu), and at three times the infection transmission rate of flu, is no joke.



You are doing some good thinking/questioning. Keep it up. You might like to look at how the US responded to the Spanish flu. Right now that response is looking like the better one.

Billy_Snagg
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hemihead said:


Item 1: not correct. They die of the symptoms of the illness. Underlying conditions raise the overall stress on their immune system, raising the risk of bad outcomes.

Item 2: 70 000 people dead in the US each year from flu, with the capacity to treat many many more who's lives are saved, is the happy medium you as a society have decided to accept. All countries do this maths. A farmer does this maths with their livestock. Covid 19, unchecked, at a 4% morality rate, will kill more than 20 MILLION Americans. 20 Million. This is not the flu.

Item 3: the placebo effect will certainly be working both positively and negatively in regard to personal health outcomes. I myself have seen a man "lie down to die", because he believed he was going to, and did! The placebo affect hasn't threatened to kill 20 million people anywhere I've ever read.

Item 4: The World Health Organisations guidelines talk about the importance of healthy eating, exercise, and mental wellbeing to support your immune system. My own country continually reiterates these same messages. The information is available if you seek it. Can help with some resources if you would like

Item 5: there are clearly moves by right wing and fascist leaning governments to use this time to their advantage. The fascist leaning US leader has used the time to remove the land rights of a first nation people just today. You must remain alive to these concerns. Activists the world over are working hard on how to act while in societal lock-down. This too will bring change.

Item 6: Political observation. It is well documented that pandemics are linked to times of political upheaval and civil unrest. It is quite reasonable to assume this will also be the case this time. Not all governments are the same. My own country has no national fear of the government, and strong leadership focused on the science. We are in good hands, and if we aren't we will change the hands. You must make your own judgements about your own government, and remember it when it is to to speak/act/debate.

Item 7: Yes. The risk of health services is what has led to governements acting so strongly and quickly. It has been seen in Italy that many many more people die once health services are overwhelmed.

Item 8: The stunning work of many thousands if people in the last 60 years in managing famine is without precedent in human history. You might look back over this thread to about page 35 where I provided the statistics on world health among the poorest and our terrific work in this area. Further, these most vulnerable people will die at much higher rates with Covid 19 in their environment. The US homeless population will experience the same thing. The news on famines is constantly in the news, with reports published by the dozens each month on what is happening. The fact that where a person chooses to get their does not show them this is also a reason to ask about your own news consumption choices. Both Al Jazerra and BBC news carry regular famine updates.
Item 9: Yes. It is not for me to make comment on, but the ability to produce $2T dollars to provide for industry and business when even the government department that was in charge of infectious disease control couldn’t get money a few months ago does seem pretty shit. Keep thinking about the interests of your leaders

Item 10: The experts in the field of infectious diseases are presenting data that clearly shows there is no hype. How governments respond to it may have elements of hype, or power grabbing, but the organism itself, with a roughly 4% death rate (around 30 times more than flu), and at the times the infection transmission rate of flu, is no joke.



You are doing some good thinking/questioning. Keep it up. You might like to look at how the US responded to the Spanish flu. Right now that response is looking like the better one.

Hemi, would you consider being my lawyer if ever my employer was giving me too much shit. To have a guy like you in the room with me would be a massive boost. I could imagine you saying Billy doesn't have to answer that question! I like the way you have gone through all the points & produced a counter argument.

Layla
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[quote-473708-Ahavati]

I think the 'stay at home' order should have been tougher right at the start.  People didn't take it seriously and they still don't and I"m afraid the numbers will rise rather quickly in US in the following weeks.

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