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Psychopathy & Dark Triad Thread

Umm
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I've recently found myself interested in learning more about psychopathy, and have discovered an awesome youtube channel which effectively answers a lot of my questions about it.

In case anyone here is as curious about the topic as I am, here's a link to one of the channel's videos:

https://youtu.be/yo2uVWfODYM

...I'm making this thread because I want to learn more about psychopathy, I think it's an interesting topic, and it's important to be as informed as possible about the traits that people with this disorder display. (and other dark triad disorders: narcissism, Machiavellianism)

If anyone has any more info about this stuff, ...feel free to share it here.

Thanks 😋

Tallen
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i have subscribed to this not to actually be here but to be here for others.
As a Male empath,
and being a member of many an empath group online and on sites like Facebook, i run into a great plethera of info.  
Empaths are unusually attracted to Narcissists and so that is a huge subject of discussion.  

Not certain what type of info You are interested in or in discovering
but i will assist as i feel........

Be well in all things, Sister

Umm
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Tallen said:i have subscribed to this not to actually be here but to be here for others.
As a Male empath,
and being a member of many an empath group online and on sites like Facebook, i run into a great plethera of info.  
Empaths are unusually attracted to Narcissists and so that is a huge subject of discussion.  

Not certain what type of info You are interested in or in discovering
but i will assist as i feel........

Be well in all things, Sister


Hey! ...thanks,
that's very nice of you ^-^

...I'm not looking for any specific info, ..it can be stories from personal experience or links to studies, blogs or articles which provide new or useful insights about the topic.

It just felt like a good idea to have a thread like this


Ahavati
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Umm said:I've recently found myself interested in learning more about psychopathy, and have discovered an awesome youtube channel which effectively answers a lot of my questions about it.

In case anyone here is as curious about the topic as I am, here's a link to one of the channel's videos:

https://youtu.be/yo2uVWfODYM

...I'm making this thread because I want to learn more about psychopathy, I think it's an interesting topic, and it's important to be as informed as possible about the traits that people with this disorder display. (and other dark triad disorders: narcissism, Machiavellianism)

If anyone has any more info about this stuff, ...feel free to share it here.

Thanks 😋



Fantastic topic and one others should pay attention to, particularly on social media. According to Alexandra Bogomilova, a psychology major with 6 years of experience in journalism, social media analysis and communication, she says the first thing to pay attention to are those ( particularly women ) prone to taking and posting selfies.

The first thing to pay attention to is their photos: people with narcissistic tendencies care very much about pictures. For example, they are more likely to wear expensive, flashy clothing on photos, and their general appearance reveals a lot of preparation. These conclusions were made in a study that aimed to discover whether people can say if others are narcissists just by looking at their photos.

The researchers identified 16 visual cues that reveal if a person in a photo is narcissistic, and all cues were related to narcissists’ desire to be the centre of attention. For instance, female narcissists tend to wear make-up and show cleavage more often than other women. Male narcissists are more likely to wear clothes that enhance their social status, and less likely to have sunglasses in photos.

As a rule, people with higher scores on narcissism are more motivated to select profile photos on Facebook that emphasize their attractiveness. This data comes from Ludwig-Maximilians-University of Munich. The researcher team analyzed the Facebook presence of 288 students and asked them about their motivation to choose particular images.



A common characteristic for the social media presence of narcissists is the abundance of selfies.

Results from a survey completed by 1200 US residents reveal that two dimensions of narcissism positively correlate with the frequency of posting selfies on social media. These are the Leadership/Authority type, attributed to individuals who seek power and authority over others, and the Exhibitionism/Grandiosity type, which reflects self-absorption, vanity, and attention-seeking.

There is more to that. Not only are narcissists more likely to produce selfies: the act of taking selfies alone makes people more narcissistic. Results from an interesting longitudinal study show an increase in the subsequent levels of narcissism in people who photograph themselves more often. [. . .]


From Narcissists and social media: a (self-)love story

Nest of narcissists

Narcissistic individuals simply ADORE their own profile photos, show researchers from the University of North Florida. Having in mind their exaggerated positive view of their physical attractiveness, it is no surprise – after all, the profile photo is the most physical aspect of a person’s online self-presentation.

How to spot a narcissist? Just keep an eye on your newsfeed. Self-centered users (women especially) change their profile photos more regularly that others to attract attention and new positive reactions. Does the photo look like taken out of a fashion magazine? Definitely a narcissist. They have a thing for glamorous and dramatic shots.


From The secret language of profile photos

Know the signs!

Umm
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That's interesting information, to add onto it, here are some symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder:

Taken from:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

"Symptoms:

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

- Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance

- Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration

- Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it

- Exaggerate achievements and talents

- Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate

- Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people

- Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior

- Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations

- Take advantage of others to get what they want

- Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

- Be envious of others and believe others envy them

- Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious

- Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office



At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

- Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment

- Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted

- React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior

- Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior

- Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change

- Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection

- Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation"

Ahavati
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Umm said:That's interesting information, to add onto it, here are some symptoms of Narcisstic personality disorder:

Taken from:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

"Symptoms:

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

- Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance

- Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration

- Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it

- Exaggerate achievements and talents

- Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate

- Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people

- Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior

- Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations

- Take advantage of others to get what they want

- Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

- Be envious of others and believe others envy them

- Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious

- Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office



At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

- Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment

- Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted

- React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior

- Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior

- Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change

- Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection

- Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation"


Yes; those are some of the standard textbook traits of NPD.  But, social media is an amplified animal.  It's actually being labeled a pandemic, particularly among younger people, largely due to their environment ( reality tv et al ).

A modern pandemic

Indeed, studies show that the levels of subclinical narcissism, or the personality trait that all normal individuals possess to a certain degree, have increased worldwide since the 1970s. Self-esteem is rapidly rising, too: according to data published in the Review of General Psychology, 80% of American students scored higher in self-esteem in 2006 than the generation from 1988. Scientists have also found that today’s young people are more likely than older adults to have ever experienced Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or the clinical dimension of narcissism.

Can we explain this sudden epidemic with the advent of social media? Some theories suggest that yes. It turns out that narcissism is not a stable personality trait, but its manifestations depend largely on the environment. For instance, media can influence whether we act as narcissists. A recent study showed that people exposed to narcissistic reality TV characters exhibit higher levels of narcissism immediately afterwards.

Other data also supports the theory: a paper from 2011 found that teenagers who use Facebook more often show more narcissistic tendencies than their peers. Increased Facebook use is directly linked to narcissism in adults, too, indicate results from a self-report study.


I'd like to get more in depth, particularly regarding relationships, as narcissists target highly sensitive individuals.  It would be a great idea to list some resources to help members evaluate and determine if they're in a narcissistic relationship, and how to sever that tie.

butters
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Hi, Umm

Having lived with a genuine psychopath for 18 years has clued me in to spotting a lot of the signs; signs that you just don't fully realise until far too late when you are involved in a relationship with them.

They can have this almost insane ability to charm; people who don't know them can find them immensely attractive personalities even if they can't quite be sure why. Even if they get to know some terrible truths about the person, they still can't but help finding themselves attracted to their company. As my neighbour once told me (after he'd gone): "It's so weird but, even knowing what he did, I think if he walked up this close and started chatting to me I'd find myself smiling and nodding along. It's like hypnotism!"

They 'love-bomb' people they intend to manipulate, then play them like fish. They gather information, private stuff, from these people because people let down their guards and tell them things they'd never share with others. Then, when bored with them or just as leverage, the psycho will use this information to control outcomes. They do not care about people. They care only about themselves; playing with people who are not-really-people in their eyes is a way to alleviate their boredom. They can change from acting the kind, deeply sympathetic person to an utterly devoid of compassion horror in the blink of an eye. It's almost a physical change that overtakes their features when the mask drops.

Almost everything about them is a lie: even when they don't need to lie they ENJOY spinning huge stories and do so to maipulate the emotions of their listeners. Nothing is their fault. My ex, for example, blamed some of the physical attacks on drugs... drugs, he told me, he used because his grandfather had sexually abused him for years as a child. He elaborated. I felt so terribly sad for him. His grandfather, being long dead, wasn't in a position to be confronted but I would have done so if he'd been alive. The truth, of course, was very different: the ex was the spoiled child, the golden boy. His grandfather was physically abusive to the females of the household (and none of them mourned his death) but the ex was encouraged to bully and torment. His accounts of abuse seemed so stark, so brutally honest, it convinced me; years later I discovered (through some of the people he'd spoken with online) that he'd gained this information by setting himself up as a sympathetic ear and deliberateyl sought out those victims/survivors of abuse. They, of course, told him all their dreadful, harrowing tales.

The psychopath is excellent at being 'a victim'. They understand what makes people tick and frequently seek out those with low self-esteem to manipulate--but they get the biggest kick from playing with those who are thought to be smart or clever. It's all a game to distract them from crushing boredom.

Have you watched the Ted Bundy story? He displays that unnatural kind of charm that lowers people's instincts of self-preservation and distrust. He's not alone. It was only through watching a documentary where police, physicians, psychiatrists and prison wardens were discussing the nature of the psychopath I fully realised what I had lived with and how the psychos of this world can (and do) fool top professionals in their game. This knowledge allowed me to forgive myself to some degree and helped me lay down a lot of the burden.

The psychopath, unless you are aware and armoured against them, can make you believe water's dry and your own name is not your name. They are incredibly fascinating yet, ultimately, sadly boring once you know what goes on in their heads. They are blind to their own faults and failures (even though they'll list them for sympathy, they don't believe them as they believe they are the smartest person in the room ALWAYS)... it's their achilles' heel.

Layla
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Everything described above on this thread is what my ex was and is.  
He put me thru hell and back playing mind games and emotionally, verbally abusing me, to the point that i was scared of the air i was breathing.
Sick sick bastard!!!

poet Anonymous

If everyone doesn’t at least see a tiny part of themselves in this, then denial from any “empath” is BOOM!

butters
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Layla said:Everything described above on this thread is what my ex was and is.  
He put me thru hell and back playing mind games and emotionally, verbally abusing me, to the point that i was scared of the air i was breathing.
Sick sick bastard!!!
I'm so sorry to hear you might still be dealing with this, Layla. I found totally blocking them from my life was the only escape but it's not always an easy thing. If he hadn't decided to move on to more 'fruitful' ground (and even then sent me a text months later saying "Have you got over yourself yet, I'm thinking of coming home" ), moving in with a woman who owned the house she lived in even though he'd got her daughter pregnant, I might still be tied up in the mess. In truth, he moved out to avoid huge debts he'd run up in my name that I ended up having to pay off. Took years to get debt-free.

The sick thing is, where he left but his name was also on the rent book (I'd added him some years before when we were married but my name was at the top which made me responsible for the debts), he could have physically returned whenever he wanted to. If I'd have refused him entry, the council would have been obliged to give him a key. The woman in the offices told me to make sure he never learned that as he might exploit it. It wasn't till years and years later another council official had his name removed and granted me a new tenancy in just my name... then I could sleep a little better at night not wondering if I'd ever wake up to find him back in the house!

Have you been able to shut him out of your life? I was lucky that my children with him had seen how he was and wanted nothing to do with him. Also, that his physical abuse had stopped once I actually reported him to the police, though the other forms of abuse didn't. He was smart enough to not take the chance of getting locked up. Some psychos, of course, are more violent and even more dangerous. His abuse was mainly limited to damage that wouldn't show.

What you need to understand is his actions, the responsibility for them, are all his. You don't have to carry that load. Relearn to trust your instincts; understand the nature of the psycho and they diminish with that understanding. They shrink. I used to have awful dreams involving him, but one night the dream he was in ended up with me laughing at him. He was, simply, pathetic. You have to brush his power off you. Outside of the relationship, it's possible. You are worth it and need never allow others to treat you badly.

Umm
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butters said:Hi, Umm

Having lived with a genuine psychopath for 18 years has clued me in to spotting a lot of the signs; signs that you just don't fully realise until far too late when you are involved in a relationship with them.

They can have this almost insane ability to charm; people who don't know them can find them immensely attractive personalities even if they can't quite be sure why. Even if they get to know some terrible truths about the person, they still can't but help finding themselves attracted to their company. As my neighbour once told me (after he'd gone): "It's so weird but, even knowing what he did, I think if he walked up this close and started chatting to me I'd find myself smiling and nodding along. It's like hypnotism!"

They 'love-bomb' people they intend to manipulate, then play them like fish. They gather information, private stuff, from these people because people let down their guards and tell them things they'd never share with others. Then, when bored with them or just as leverage, the psycho will use this information to control outcomes. They do not care about people. They care only about themselves; playing with people who are not-really-people in their eyes is a way to alleviate their boredom. They can change from acting the kind, deeply sympathetic person to an utterly devoid of compassion horror in the blink of an eye. It's almost a physical change that overtakes their features when the mask drops.

Almost everything about them is a lie: even when they don't need to lie they ENJOY spinning huge stories and do so to maipulate the emotions of their listeners. Nothing is their fault. My ex, for example, blamed some of the physical attacks on drugs... drugs, he told me, he used because his grandfather had sexually abused him for years as a child. He elaborated. I felt so terribly sad for him. His grandfather, being long dead, wasn't in a position to be confronted but I would have done so if he'd been alive. The truth, of course, was very different: the ex was the spoiled child, the golden boy. His grandfather was physically abusive to the females of the household (and none of them mourned his death) but the ex was encouraged to bully and torment. His accounts of abuse seemed so stark, so brutally honest, it convinced me; years later I discovered (through some of the people he'd spoken with online) that he'd gained this information by setting himself up as a sympathetic ear and deliberateyl sought out those victims/survivors of abuse. They, of course, told him all their dreadful, harrowing tales.

The psychopath is excellent at being 'a victim'. They understand what makes people tick and frequently seek out those with low self-esteem to manipulate--but they get the biggest kick from playing with those who are thought to be smart or clever. It's all a game to distract them from crushing boredom.

Have you watched the Ted Bundy story? He displays that unnatural kind of charm that lowers people's instincts of self-preservation and distrust. He's not alone. It was only through watching a documentary where police, physicians, psychiatrists and prison wardens were discussing the nature of the psychopath I fully realised what I had lived with and how the psychos of this world can (and do) fool top professionals in their game. This knowledge allowed me to forgive myself to some degree and helped me lay down a lot of the burden.

The psychopath, unless you are aware and armoured against them, can make you believe water's dry and your own name is not your name. They are incredibly fascinating yet, ultimately, sadly boring once you know what goes on in their heads. They are blind to their own faults and failures (even though they'll list them for sympathy, they don't believe them as they believe they are the smartest person in the room ALWAYS)... it's their achilles' heel.


Thank you for sharing this Butters. I can't even imagine how hard it had to have been to go through that, and it must have taken a tremendous strength of character... and who even knows what else, to recover from it <3

The reason I started researching Psychopathy was actually prompted by a bad ..or toxic relationship..I'm still trying to figure out what exactly happened. So thanks again for your post, ..It's oddly comforting to know I'm not stupid for falling for something like what you described...even though it wasn't nearly as bad as your experience.

And I will definitely have to watch the Ted Bundy story.

(I'm not really sure what else to say, other than, wow... And send hugs, and thank you again for sharing that)

Ahavati
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the5thRiddler said:If everyone doesn’t at least see a tiny part of themselves in this, then denial from any “empath” is BOOM!

We are all narcissistic to a degree; however, the difference between normal narcissism ( nn ) and narcissistic personality disorder ( npd ) are evident.  As humans, we are all self-centered or selfish at times, or have the inclination to eschew responsibility or treat friends & family badly.  We all have bad days.  But, people with nn accept responsibility for their actions and move on.  They don't hold onto resentment and bitterness, nor seek revenge.  Also, they are not afraid to see help from others or a professional.

Conversely those with narcissistic personality disorder ( npd ), are focused on themselves most of the time ( see above post regarding selfies, etc. ).  In addition, they feel an extreme amount of threat from others who may appear more self-confident or successful because they are very proactive in what they love to do.   Those with npd fear losing control of their environment, thus are constantly undermining and competing for control of those in their environment.  This is true for an office as it is a home.

Lastly, those with npd don't believe they need help because they've done nothing wrong; it's always the other person in the relationship's fault.  They hold onto grudges and seek revenge by stalking ( this can be irl,  virtual, or both ), lying, and a vast other array of negative traits.


Umm
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the5thRiddler said:If everyone doesn’t at least see a tiny part of themselves in this, then denial from any “empath” is BOOM!

Kinda agree with you there.. when it comes to narcissism. I've read that it's a spectrum thingy that everyone is on, some people have too much of it...to the point that it's a problem, other's not enough. Still need to do more research though c:

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They seem too stuck and afraid to grow.

butters
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Umm said:

Thank you for sharing this Butters. I can't even imagine how hard it had to have been to go through that, and it must have taken a tremendous strength of character... and who even knows what else, to recover from it <3

The reason I started researching Psychopathy was actually prompted by a bad ..or toxic relationship..I'm still trying to figure out what exactly happened. So thanks again for your post, ..It's oddly comforting to know I'm not stupid for falling for something like what you described...even though it wasn't nearly as bad as your experience.

And I will definitely have to watch the Ted Bundy story.
It didn't seem bad all the time...they can make you hang in there a lonnnnnnnnnnng time, plus I was reluctant to leave the home I'd been in for many years plus I had children with him. All part of the toxicity.

I am relieved for you that you endured it for a relatively brief period of time. It's still potentially very very damaging. Thank goodness the true psycho is a rare creature. Plenty of shits out there, mind Move on, use the experience to make you stronger. It does, if it doesn't break you, and I found I smply could not allow myself to break as I had 3 children (2 with him, one from my first marriage) to protect. I wish I'd been stronger or smarter and kicked him to the kerb before he had any legal rights to be in my house; I nearly did just a few weeks into the relationship, but he got around me. Place the blame where it lies: squarely with them. Personally, I enjoy your funny avs. Insecurity can make one seek approval, but just the act of taking selfies and enjoying posting them doesn't equate to narcissism as that's an extreme trait. We all just need to understand it's who we are inside that truly counts and THAT's what is important to preserve and protect.

Glad that anything I've posted offers you some comfort. Every day without the psycho is a good day and I'm usually smiling :D

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