I feel it's also the time we live in. Prose, free verse - the lack of rigidity in everyday speech has followed over into written expression as well. My grandfather wrote poetry (let's say in the 50's) and it was perfect- grammar, meter, rhyme. But back then, people also spoke more formally than we do today as well. To see metered, rhyming poetry today (unless it happens completely organically) feels stifling and cliche. Yes, I say this as one who tends to skew towards more classical writing styles.  

Just imagine the brave ones like ee cummings who literally shot the finger at conformity and societal expectation in regards to poetry.  

Indeed. And to think when I was taught about poetry in school, the words used to describe ee cummings' work were not always complimentary. Far from it. Without him, so many voices would be silent today.

inechoingsilence said:Indeed. And to think when I was taught about poetry in school, the words used to describe ee cummings' work were not always complimentary. Far from it. Without him, so many voices would be silent today.

Amen to that!

well, so far it appears over 80% of people have found critique improved their writing in some way or another.

butters said:well, so far it appears over 80% of people have found critique improved their writing in some way or another.

Did you factor in all the extra profiles involved?

JohnnyBlaze said:

Did you factor in all the extra profiles involved?

holy hell, never occurred to me

Voted: Yes.

I've had good feedback usually from one person (thanks Josh) throughout all of my time here.  I always ask for honest critique and I try and explain what I was trying to do in the poem in the commentary section of DUP.  I don't change the poem that has been critiqued but I certainly absorb it for the next attempt.  Further, all of what I do is an attempt ... Ezra Pound wrote two hundred sonnets which he tore up before publishing anything ... I don't think I've got past ten yet!

Fortunately, I haven't had the experience of a thinly disguised personal attack masquerading as a review.  I don't know what I'd do if I did ... hopefully ignore it?  Maybe quit the site?  Dunno ...

Thank you, AB.  Critique, in some way, has improved everyone's writing.  From an encouraging family member to a caring teacher to a desire within to study and improve.  Self-awareness and improvement are critical assessments as well.  Anyone who thinks they can't improve, or that they have reached the pinnacle of perfection where writing is concerned are the very ones who need critique the most.  

Totally agree with this A.


Thought on it more and the critique I hated before wasn't critique for the purpose of improvement at all. In the old days here people used to do it publicly on a newsletter or in the form of mockery, it really put my back up but it wasn't critique at all.

ImperfectedStone said:Totally agree with this A.


Thought on it more and the critique I hated before wasn't critique for the purpose of improvement at all. In the old days here people used to do it publicly on a newsletter or in the form of mockery, it really put my back up but it wasn't critique at all.

any critter whose words are more about condemning the poet rather than addressing areas of weakness and strength in an actual poem are not offering a critique. they're sounding off to boost their own image of a 'ballsy, tough critiquer'. their views on THE POEM should be taken into account 'considering the source'. even some of these egotists get a point or two right, but it's been my experience that this kind of person is only interested in rewriting the poem in their own 'voice', giving no thought to the voice of the author or—more importantly, imo, the voice of the poem.

on the opposite side of the coin, there are those who offer 'critique' that is nothing more than a saccharine gushy opinion: hell, i've given plenty of that, myself, but as opinion, not as critique. often a piece will blow me away and it's all i have to offer. BUT, if i'm calling it a critique (something i rarely have time for now but used to give in way more depth), then i will go through the piece line by line, pointing out my understanding of the techniques and skills used, how they create cohesion and bonds throughout, why the choice of a specific word works so well... or not so well, and how the layering is received. if there are areas that are phrased in a way that is ambiguous (without reason of layering) and so creates confusion, i'll address that.

and so on and so forth.

as frustrating as it is to be 'critted' by someone who lacks critting skills (which we learn from observation and practise), it's also very frustrating when a well-thought-out critique is offered only to have the poet react like you've branded them. it's a rare occurrence for me, since i take pains to point out my reasoning and nowadays tend to couch it all in terms of opinion, and that i NEVER expect someone to change a word unless it feels right to them to do so as the poem's author, but it has happened in the past. these are people i will then not waste my own time on in reviewing a poem they've specifically asked for critique on but really only want plaudits and arse-kissing.

ImperfectedStone said:Totally agree with this A.


Thought on it more and the critique I hated before wasn't critique for the purpose of improvement at all. In the old days here people used to do it publicly on a newsletter or in the form of mockery, it really put my back up but it wasn't critique at all.

It was before my time, but I heard about those days and that public 'newsletter', Poppy. From several members such as yourself who were not happy.  What was worse ( per their stories ) is if you didn't think it was funny then you didn't have a sense of humour.  No, those who resort to mockery under the guise of humour are not critiquing your work. In fact, it has nothing to do with your work at all, and everything to do with making themselves feel holier-than-thou.

Those horror stories are the exact reason I don't subscribe to the current 'newsletter'.  I simply don't care nor have time for anything that doesn't benefit the site positively.

I think it is very important that the criticism is reasoned.

I think if the topic is important to the reader, criticism can go aside. For every author, criticism is a sore spot, especially for young authors who want to prove something to themselves in the writing community. Therefore, they are increasingly using services like https://edubirdie.com/thesis-writing-help so that more experienced writers can review their written work and give a couple of good writing tips. I think this is not as bad as many say. At least this is a way to improve your writing skills, primarily for beginners.

Having participated and led poetry workshopping in grad school ... good critiques can be very helpful ... if it begins with positive assessments of the poem (there is always something positive to say about a poem) ... provides specifics ... then wraps up on up note ... but it does not help when it is mean spirited ... or used as a chance to stick it someone you do not like ... so DUP gets mixed reviews in my book ...