Go to page:

Can anyone really be a poet?

cold_fusion
cold_fusion
Tyrant of Words
Australia
19awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 14th June 2017
Forum Posts: 2252

cold_fusion said:there is no such a thing as anyone not being a poet ... only a skilled and an unskilled one.

skills help you deliver your expressions more effectively
but again you can give a robot the skills too. But the art, the originality comes, from the core..perhaps the soul...each with it's own unique signature.

cold_fusion@DU

https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/forum/speakeasy/read/10667/120/

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

a soul is capable of throwing down a lot of words on a page that bear no semblance to poetry imo.

it's like saying everyone can be whatever their heart desires, be whatever they want to be: that's just not true. someone might want to be an astronaut with all their waking soul, or be the winner of the 'the voice', but if you're physically/psychologically never able to attain to demands of those wishes, it ain't happening. if you're tone deaf? you'll never make a great singer - you may sing, but that's not the same thing.

we can strive, but we have to have that innate ability in any particular field we aspire to in order to succeed

cold_fusion
cold_fusion
Tyrant of Words
Australia
19awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 14th June 2017
Forum Posts: 2252

butters said:i think humans have poetry within them - but it doesn't always manifest as words: there's poetry to be found in a painting, landscaping, sculpture, the beauty of a scientific theory, the ability to bring a smile to a child's face, make your customers happy as a hairdresser....

can every one write poetry? i don't believe so, but they're still poets realising poetry in some other way. when they deny their inner poetry, it messes them up. bad.

when we call everything written down "poetry", regardless of content/recognition of the power of words/its ability to move a reader? i think that does an injustice to actual poetry.

that is not to say a complete novice writer cannot write poetry; some can, having that innate connection with the written word and a connection with the emotional world. they will only improve as they develop their skillsets, tucking tools of the trade into their workbelts...

can you explain "actual poetry"? this struggle for lack of a better term. has been going on for ages..be it between the parnassians and the romantics of the 19th century or the elitist of today we see..

poetry..is art.. and art by nature is subjective. what is not art/poetry in your individual opinion does not necessarily hold truth for the next person... so to me your quote above and your latest words look contradictory...

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

cold_fusion said:
can you explain "actual poetry"? this struggle for lack of a better term. has been going on for ages..be it between the parnassians and the romantics of the 19th century or the elitist of today we see..

poetry..is art.. and art by nature is subjective. what is not art/poetry in your individual opinion does not necessarily hold truth for the next person... so to me your quote above and your latest words look contradictory...
of course it's of a subjective nature that each culture and generation will argue about. such is art in all its forms.

but i'll ty to give my understanding of 'actual' poetry as i've come to understand it over the years, using the basic tenets of why a piece of writing is a poem:

poetry is literature using aesthetics more than prose might, metre, form, imagery, sound and musicality, emotional content; these are used in an attempt to describe a sense of something elusive, frequently metaphysical, often relating to the emotional turbulence of life; aesthetics attempt to elevate language above mere words on a page, allowing a poem to connect deeply with a reader beyond a mere retelling of an event or uncontrolled morass of words.

there's nothing elitist in wanting to learn how best to touch another reader's soul/mind/heart. would you say a novice playing piano should remain content with banging out chopsticks, or shouldn't aspire to play as beautifully as they can through learning, practise, listening to wonderful pianists?

Miss_Sub
Miss_Sub
- Missy -
Tyrant of Words
United Kingdom
98awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 26th June 2011
Forum Posts: 8078

This type of thinking is slightly flawed.

Take the Dadaist movement for example. Dada poems rejected reason and logic, prizing nonsense, irrationality, and intuition as a rejection of society that anyone could do. It was out of order, revolutional, and most certainly expressive art.

Is it like anything else? No.

Do people hate it? Yes.

Does that mean it’s not poetry because it doesn’t fit in a nice neat grammar & form polished box? Nay mate.

Josh
Josh
Dangerous Mind
Portugal
26awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 2nd Feb 2017
Forum Posts: 371

Perhaps poetry is a certain mind-set of how one negotiates one's way through the world. A footballer dribbling past three defenders and shooting the ball in the corner of the net can be 'sheer poetry' (but not prose). Boris Johnson operates in a manner I would consider the opposite to poetry.
A poetic mind-set sees clearly the many elephants in the room and is able to articulate that experience into words that are accessible to others. An opposite mind-set results in things like 'shoot first, ask questions later', and building walls.

lepperochan
lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
64awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 12819

poetry can be one word. the word doesn't even have to be spelled right. anyone can write it. naysayers be dammned in their elitist bubble

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

lepperochan said:poetry can be one word. the word doesn't even have to be spelled right. anyone can write it. naysayers be dammned in their elitist bubble


i would agree that one word can be a poem (even if it's a hard ask), but what MAKES it a poem? isn't it the ability to connect, often because of the sound of a word but mostly through allowing the reader to bring all their baggage-connotations to it? their experience of the word becomes the poem, for all it inspires reaction in them.

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

Josh said:Perhaps poetry is a certain mind-set of how one negotiates one's way through the world. A footballer dribbling past three defenders and shooting the ball in the corner of the net can be 'sheer poetry' (but not prose). Boris Johnson operates in a manner I would consider the opposite to poetry.
A poetic mind-set sees clearly the many elephants in the room and is able to articulate that experience into words that are accessible to others. An opposite mind-set results in things like 'shoot first, ask questions later', and building walls.

now this i can run with

Miss_Sub
Miss_Sub
- Missy -
Tyrant of Words
United Kingdom
98awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 26th June 2011
Forum Posts: 8078

This actually reminded me of Hemi’s interview in the podcast when he said about the lad who had “why doesn’t my father love me” written on his wall and that if that wasn’t a poem he didn’t know what was.

I have to say I agree. That was his moment. That was him, raw, in that moment. And that is what I think poetry is to me too.

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

Miss_Sub said:This type of thinking is slightly flawed.

Take the Dadaist movement for example. Dada poems rejected reason and logic, prizing nonsense, irrationality, and intuition as a rejection of society that anyone could do. It was out of order, revolutional, and most certainly expressive art.

Is it like anything else? No.

Do people hate it? Yes.

Does that mean it’s not poetry because it doesn’t fit in a nice neat grammar & form polished box? Nay mate.
like the visual arts, poetry comes in all shapes and sizes; i'm open to all but have personal preferences. i generally prefer blank or free-form over form; a well-executed formed piece can work beautifully but, because of its parameters, can produce some of the most dire, tortured pieces i've ever read.

if  dadaist poetry connects to people through its use of language, in whatever manner, it IS using words in just a different way and then it becomes poetry. i would bet the most popular pieces still connect through inspiration/recognition/sound/imagery. perhaps i should read some to know. sounds kind of like the punk rock of the poetry world.

_boybrains
_boybrains
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
2awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 10th July 2017
Forum Posts: 143

Here’s my two cents ...

Why does this thread even exist.

lepperochan
lepperochan
Craic-Dealer
Guardian of Shadows
64awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 1st Apr 2011
Forum Posts: 12819

i think in most cases what makes a poem a poem is the person reading it

butters
butters
Fire of Insight
United Kingdom
1awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 17th Sep 2019
Forum Posts: 433

Miss_Sub said:This actually reminded me of Hemi’s interview in the podcast when he said about the lad who had “why doesn’t my father love me” written on his wall and that if that wasn’t a poem he didn’t know what was.

I have to say I agree. That was his moment. That was him, raw, in that moment. And that is what I think poetry is to me too.


that phrase: it connects. why? because most people have had fathers and a vastly different range of experiences/emotions that go with that. those who've had good, loving fathers cannot help but hurt for the boy who feels unloved; those who feel the same about their fathers will connect through the vehicle of shared pain; fathers who've loved their child well will feel their heartstrings pulled for the child who feels unloved; the father with the estranged child (for whatever reason) may feel th pain of the child as well as their own for the emotional distance between them and their own.... and so on and so forth


it. connects.
it's raw.
it bleeds.


and those without a poetic bone in their bodies might think 'self-centred twat should get up off his arse and do something useful'

subjectivity :D

Miss_Sub
Miss_Sub
- Missy -
Tyrant of Words
United Kingdom
98awards   profile   poems   message
Joined 26th June 2011
Forum Posts: 8078

_boybrains said:Here’s my two cents ...

Why does this thread even exist.


Because poetry, yo.

Go to page:
Go to: